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Oral history interview with Cecilie Klein-Pollack

Oral History | Digitized | Accession Number: 1994.A.0447.18 | RG Number: RG-50.042.0018

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    Oral history interview with Cecilie Klein-Pollack
    Transcript
    Here with Cecilie--
    I think she pronounces it "Ce-cile--" Klein-Pollack.
    [BEEP]
    I want to start with your describing the deportation
    from the ghetto, and I want you to include
    the context, the time, the place, who was with you,
    and what happened.
    I was in Hust.
    The name of the ghetto was Hust.
    This was a town in Czechoslovakia
    which was occupied at that time by the Hungarians
    because it was annexed by the Hungarians.
    And my mother was with me in the ghetto, my sister,
    her little boy Donny, and her husband.
    They came, the Hungarian police.
    First of all, we were always brutalized
    because they would just come in and take out some girls
    and make them do all kinds of stupid things, or men.
    They would tell the men to walk on all fours
    and be like horses, and they would ride on them in order
    to brutalize them.
    But then came the time when they just chased everybody out.
    They told us the day before that we can pack one small suitcase
    and we should be ready to leave the ghetto.
    When we came to the--
    it was at one time a factory for bricks.
    And there they started to search us again.
    The SS was there also.
    And every woman and every girl had to undress naked
    and we were searched internally for valuables.
    My mother was a very religious person,
    and all I could think of was how terrible this is for my mother
    to go through something--
    such a terrible ordeal.
    When we were finished, my mother took the baby from my sister
    because she was holding the little boy Donny,
    and she had a bottle of milk for the child.
    And the SS grabbed the bottle of milk and said,
    let's see, you cow, what you have there.
    And my mother pleaded, please, the child needs the milk.
    Please don't take the milk from my grandson.
    He started to beat her with a horsewhip.
    And when I saw that she was being beaten
    so I screamed so at least I got away the attention
    from my mother.
    So my mother ran into the-- because the trains
    were right there.
    We were just, you know, going into those cattle trains.
    So I took away the attention from my mother
    and he started to beat me with that whip.
    And finally I was able to run away also
    and we were finally in the cattle train.
    We were pushed in like herrings.
    At least 75 to 80 people, which would only hold maybe 30.
    There was no room even--
    not to lie down but to sit.
    Most of the people were standing.
    And then when we got very tired, we would be sitting down.
    And they locked us in.
    And finally the trains--
    before the trains took off, an SS came in and told--
    and picked out my brother-in-law that he is going to be the one
    responsible for--
    they gave us two pails for bodily functions
    and we were traveling 24 hours before they
    opened those cattle trains.
    And then my brother-in-law had to take out those pails
    and they told him to bring in water.
    In the same pails we received the water.
    And he told my brother-in-law that if anybody would escape,
    then he would be killed.
    There was no way to escape because there was nowhere
    to escape.
    We traveled three days and three nights.
    Each time they stopped they would take out those pails
    and bring in water.
    But the journey was one of the greatest horrors.
    First of all, we had no idea where we are being taken.
    And most of the people were either praying
    or they were talking about the past and about the future
    and where we should meet.
    And my mother wanted to cheer us up
    so she would tell us that she is sure that wherever we are going
    we are going to meet--
    my other sister was not with us because she
    was taken before we were separated because we ran away
    a few years prior, and my sister was therefore
    taken away with her children to a different ghetto.
    And we missed her terribly and my mother always
    hoped that we shall meet my sister.
    Then when we arrived to Auschwitz
    it was like we had just come in to a different world.
    They opened up those cattle trains.
    People in striped uniforms came on the train
    and they started to shout we should get out and leave
    everything behind and whatever we have
    is going to be delivered to us.
    My brother-in-law still had a watch
    so he asked one of these men in those striped uniforms,
    please tell me what's going on here.
    So they were not allowed to say anything
    because they were prisoners.
    They're already here for years.
    But then my brother-in-law gave him the watch
    so he told him in Jewish and my mother was standing next
    to my brother-in-law and I was also standing next
    to my brother-in-law.
    But my sister, as soon as the train
    opened and the child was crying, so she ran down quickly
    from the train to get some air.
    So this man told my brother-in-law,
    if you have children, then give away the children
    either to elderly people or people with-- because people
    with children are going to be killed the same day.
    And as soon as my mother heard that,
    she had presence of mind to run down.
    And I was next to my mother, and I couldn't really
    believe that this could possibly be true.
    But she ran over to my sister, removed the child from her arms
    and told her, darling, I just found out
    that women with children will have it very easy.
    All they will do--
    they will take care of the children,
    but young people will be sent on hard labor
    and, you know, I'm not so young, I'll never
    be able to survive hard labor.
    So she was trying to make my sister believe
    that by giving her the child she's going to help her.
    Before my sister had even a chance
    to resist or to say no, I don't want to give the child up,
    my mother had the child in her arm.
    And as soon as my mother had the child in her arm,
    there was standing an SS, and his name--
    eventually we learned that his name was Mengele.
    So whoever had children, young people and old people,
    he separated.
    So to the left and to the right.
    So this is how I remained with my sister standing
    with the other women, young women.
    And then you want to ask me other questions or shall
    I continue?
    Yeah.
    So this is the last-- my mother had only a chance
    to yell out to me, take care of your sister,
    because she knew where she was taking her grandson.
    And although I was the younger, she
    knew how my sister will suffer when she'll find out what
    happened to her little son.
    And we really didn't have too much time
    to reflect on anything because everything was done brutally,
    the shouting.
    And we were terrified because all we
    saw there were SS with large dogs
    and screaming to stand in line, to get into line
    and the separation of us being conducted with beating.
    So if somebody didn't move quickly
    or didn't stay straight or--
    so it was-- everything done with brutality and with force so you
    just did whatever--
    Yeah, and where you should begin is--
    why don't you begin with the cattle
    cars arriving and the doors being flung open.
    OK.
    The cattle cars arrived to Auschwitz.
    At that time we didn't know this was Auschwitz.
    Some people in striped uniforms came on the train
    and they started to yell at us we
    should get out and leave everything behind.
    Everybody was terribly frightened
    because we didn't know what's going to happen to us.
    My brother-in-law asked this man,
    please tell me what's going on here because downstairs--
    outside we heard a lot of barking and shouting
    and a lot of commotion.
    He didn't want to say anything.
    He was just quiet.
    But then when my brother-in-law still had a watch
    and he slipped him the watch, he told him, if you have children,
    give the children away.
    And if you have a wife and she has a child,
    then she is not going to--
    she will be killed unless you give the child to somebody
    else, to older people, because they
    are going to be killed anyway.
    My mother was standing next to my brother along with me
    and my sister was already downstairs
    because she was glad to be able to get out of the cattle train
    so that the child should get some air
    after this terrible journey.
    As soon as my mother heard that, she
    had the presence of mind to run over to my sister,
    quickly remove the child from her arm and told her,
    darling, I just found out that women with children
    will have it easy.
    All they will do is take care of the children.
    But young people will go on hard labor.
    And I'm not so young and I'm not so well.
    I will never survive so I'll take good care of your child
    and you take care of your sister.
    But as soon as she had the child in her arms
    and before my sister had even a chance
    to object because no mother likes to give up
    her child for whatever reason, she was pushed away
    between the single people, and my mother was pushed by Mengele
    whom we found out that was his name
    only later because he did the selections,
    she was pushed to the side where all the women with children
    and older people were standing.
    She had only a chance--
    my mother had only a chance to yell out to me,
    please take care of your sister.
    My name was [? Cecilie. ?] This is how she called me.
    And she called out, [? Cilica, ?]
    take care of your sister because she
    knew the pain my sister will suffer when she'll find out
    where she took her grandson.
    But we really had no time or a chance
    to reflect yet on the separation because everything
    was done with such brutality, with such
    screaming and yelling.
    And right away there were the Kapos and block
    elders who started to beat us into line and the SS
    with their dogs who were barking and they
    were trained to tear anybody to pieces
    if one did not obey the orders.
    And so we were finally lined up and they marched us
    to a huge building which had shower caps,
    and we were told to undress.
    And I was always--
    I was young and vain and I dressed
    in my best clothes, my nice coat, my best dress,
    so I put it nicely together when I undressed.
    And there comes over this Kapo and she flings it to the side.
    And I say, this is my clothes.
    She said, yes, but you won't need it anymore.
    And I was terribly scared because I
    didn't know what that meant.
    Then when we were undressed we were ordered--
    everybody was ordered to stand up on a stool
    and they shaved us.
    They shaved our hair and the private parts.
    And we looked-- we couldn't even recognize each other.
    Once we were stripped not only of our clothes but of our hair
    then we were shoved into those showers.
    And they first opened the hot water so we were scalded.
    And as we ran out from under the hot water,
    we were beaten back by the SS and by the Kapos
    to go under the showers again.
    So they opened the ice cold water,
    which had the same effect.
    And finally we were out of this shower.
    Each of us was given one garment,
    which, of course, didn't fit.
    Some got smaller-- that was too small,
    some got that was too large.
    We didn't receive not even underwear
    or brassieres or panties.
    Just that one dress.
    It was not a striped dress.
    It was just a dress that probably the ones before us
    were killed and they had taken away the clothes.
    And finally we were ordered to line up.
    My sister was calling my name and I
    was calling her name even though we were standing next
    to each other.
    We didn't recognize each other.
    This is how we looked after we were--
    after they finished with us.
    And then they marched us.
    We were five in a row.
    And as we were marching, you could see
    flames and you could smell--
    there was a smell of smoke as you would barbecue something.
    And then we asked the ones--
    those block elders-- the Kapos who were escorting us,
    what is this smell?
    So she said, these are your fathers,
    your brothers, your sisters, your children.
    And when my sister heard that, I said, you know,
    don't listen to her.
    She's only trying to scare us.
    And nobody-- even if when I heard it
    and even what I heard that this man told my brother-in-law,
    I really truly didn't believe at that time
    that this could possibly be true,
    that anybody could just take and kill completely innocent people
    that didn't commit any crimes.
    I thought there must be some mistake.
    Then we were led into--
    it looked like a big stable and it had three layer bunks.
    And we were ordered to go into that stable.
    The number of that stable--
    there were 30 stables like those and they
    pushed in 1,000 girls in one such stable.
    We were-- to each bunk we were 10.
    And we received-- everybody received a blanket.
    And you could not--
    you had to-- when you went to sleep,
    you could only sleep on your side because if one turned,
    all of us had to turn because there was no way
    that one could turn and the other one because there
    was no room otherwise.
    In the morning they woke us up.
    Tell me when you want me to stop.
    In the morning they woke us up at 5 o'clock
    and we had to line up for roll call.
    And we received some that looked like coffee,
    but it was just some colored black water.
    This was our breakfast.
    At lunchtime, we got a cup and we all had to keep this cup.
    This was our most important possession
    because if you wouldn't have this cup,
    then you could not receive your portion of the soup that
    was distributed at lunchtime.
    But it was so terrible that we still were not
    used to eat this kind of food so we did not eat it,
    and then we realized the big mistake that we were
    making because this meant--
    if you didn't-- we got such poor--
    [BEEP]
    Why don't you start with being given the cup.
    OK.
    The cup that we received became our most prized possession
    for without it we would starve.
    Our rations were anyway starvation rations,
    therefore it was so important to be able to have every meal.
    And we received lunchtime a cup of soup which was watery
    and was just swimming a little potato.
    And in the evening we would receive a piece of bread
    and some would receive a piece of margarine
    and some would receive, let's say, a piece of head cheese.
    I always tried to change the head cheese for margarine
    because my sister became completely despondent
    and depressed over the loss of her child
    and she refused to eat.
    So I would force open her mouth because the margarine
    will dissolve but the head cheese she wouldn't swallow.
    And my sister only after a few days
    even, didn't even last long, she started to talk about suicide.
    Our camp was surrounded by electrically charged wires,
    and all she wanted was to go to those wires and kill herself.
    I wanted very much to live, and I
    tried to tell my sister that she promised
    that she's going to take care of me and she's the older one
    and I tried to talk her out of it.
    And then I saw that she does not really
    understand me very well so I used a different tactic.
    I promised her.
    I said, I'll go with you.
    But you tell me when you want to go
    because this way I could keep track of her
    and I could always persuade her not to do it.
    I would always tell her, don't do it today.
    Look, it's still warm and we'll do it
    when we can't take it anymore and it's going to get cold.
    Or I would tell her, don't do it today because today is--
    let's say today is going to be--
    we are going to get a piece of salami
    or I would always promise her something
    good will come out of that day.
    And so she sort of waited for me that I'm going to go with her
    and this is how I was able always
    to keep her from doing this deed and hoping that she
    will get used to the situation.
    But as time went on, the lack of food that we were getting
    started to take its toll and we were starting to deteriorate.
    Ours was-- it was not a camp.
    Birkenau was not a camp that they were sending you to work.
    It was an extermination camp.
    They only kept you there long enough
    until they needed the place for other people to bring in.
    And as soon as you were deteriorated,
    they would make selections and take you to the gas chambers.
    And realizing this, I started to try--
    to eat everything that I were given
    and I would force my sister to do the same.
    But then I met a friend of mine.
    I recognized her.
    And she was in a different block.
    And she was very happy to see me because we
    were friends from the ghetto.
    So she told me that I should come to her block,
    but hers was a children block, only children out there from--
    it was from 14 and up.
    Mostly 14, 15, 13-year-olds.
    But my sister was already 22 and I was already 19 then,
    but I looked very thin and skinny,
    and I didn't look my age because I had been already starving
    for years before because I was mostly in hiding.
    We didn't have papers and I didn't have the proper food
    for a few years.
    So she knew that I write poetry and she told me that her block
    elders likes talented children.
    She will tell her about me.
    So I told her, all right.
    So she asked me whether I have any poems,
    and I knew all my poems by heart.
    I didn't-- because we had no pencil and paper there.
    So I told her, yes, in fact I had some composed already
    since I'm here in German.
    And so she told the block eldest about me, so she called me
    and she wanted me to recite the poem.
    And I recited a poem and she said, all right.
    She said, if you want, you can come and stay in my block.
    I said, well, I have a sister.
    And she asked me how old is my sister.
    And when I told her she said, well,
    she certainly cannot pass as a child.
    I said, well, then I wouldn't come.
    I would never come without my sister.
    So she said, all right, come with your sister and I will
    pass her off as a [? studentist. ?] But she
    wasn't a [? studentist ?] because a [? studentist ?] was
    very wonderful to be because the [? studentists ?] were the ones
    that were cleaning the blocks and that were also distributing
    the food.
    And if you were the one to distribute the food,
    then you always had a little bit more and you always were trying
    to get from the bottom of the barrel the potatoes that was
    [? small ?] [? grown, ?] you know,
    that wasn't so just watery, that had more potatoes.
    So this is how we got to be, and this was block 8.
    It was the children's block.
    But this, on the other hand, was a very foolish part on our side
    because the children were the first ones
    to deteriorate very quickly and they
    were the ones to be selected much more often and much
    sooner.
    However-- so we went to one selection, which we passed.
    And every few weeks we would be taken
    to disinfect our dresses because we had only this one dress.
    And we would get another of those wonderful showers, which
    was always repeated in the same fashion
    that we really didn't couldn't get
    clean under terrible conditions that this was conducted.
    However, the dresses, eventually,
    since we slept in those dresses and wore them constantly,
    became full of lice.
    So they would try to disinfect, not that it helped any.
    So we would stand around naked while those dresses were
    disinfected.
    The SS with their dogs would guard us,
    and we would be standing naked while the SS were guarding us
    with those dogs.
    Sometimes an hour, sometimes two hours
    until we would receive our dresses back.
    One day after having--
    after such a spectacle when the SS was guarding us,
    they became very restless and the block eldest
    apparently wanted to--
    because she happened to be a very nice woman,
    wanted maybe to save us from some disaster,
    told the SS that she has among her children
    a very talented girl.
    She's a ballet dancer.
    And she asked them, would you like to see this girl dance?
    They said, yes.
    So this girl-- she told this girl to dance.
    She was one of the most beautiful children
    that I have ever seen.
    She was about 14 years old and she was dancing.
    And as she was dancing tears were running down her cheeks
    because I'm sure that she was remembering when she was
    dancing to the applause of an audience, when her parents were
    watching her and had so much pleasure seeing their daughter
    dance with such talent.
    And then when this was over, we received our dresses
    but they took this child with them
    and we never expected to see her again.
    But a few days later, they brought her back
    and we didn't recognize her.
    She had been tortured.
    She had been raped.
    She was in a daze.
    She didn't even know that she has to get up in the morning
    to get out to stand roll call.
    And if you would not get out from the bunk
    to stand roll call, then you were beaten to death
    because roll call--
    Take four.
    Can you back up in that story until how she--
    Until where?
    Until where you were all standing around
    and the SS became uneasy and the block elder--
    started to dance.
    Block elder-- I say about the uneasy, too?
    Mm-mm.
    As we were standing around waiting for our dresses,
    the SS became very restless and the block elders
    wanted to distract them, so she told them
    that she has a talented ballet dancer and would
    they want her to dance?
    They agreed that they want her to dance
    and there she was dancing--
    tears ran down her cheeks for she remembered the times when
    she was dancing on stage to the applause, to an audience,
    and to the pleasure of her parents,
    and now she was dancing in this godforsaken place,
    like in some arena, where there were only dogs and SS watching
    her.
    When we received our dresses, they took this beautiful child
    with them and we never expected to see her again,
    because when they took somebody away, they usually killed them
    and we never saw those people again.
    But they did bring her back three days later
    and we couldn't even recognize her.
    She had been raped and she had been tortured
    and she was like in a daze.
    She didn't know that she has to get up in the morning
    to stand the roll call.
    And if somebody would have been missing,
    and if they would find her in the bunk,
    then she would be beaten to death.
    So I would pick her up and take her between me and my sister,
    she should stand.
    And then, we would watch over her
    that she should get her portion of food.
    But a few days later, there was a selection,
    and we, luckily, again, passed that's selection.
    But they took out from that election 500 girls.
    We remained half and one of those girls
    was this beautiful ballerina.
    But she tried to run over to our side and the SS quarter.
    And with the butt of the rifles, they beat her to death.
    But it takes a long time for somebody
    to die when you are beaten to death.
    And all I remember was praying to God
    that she should die already.
    And her screams were following me forever.
    She was screaming to God, she was screaming to her mother,
    nobody could help her.
    And then, when she was dead, they took all the girls
    to the gas chamber and they formed like a chain
    that nobody should be able to run out.
    And like a chain, in that chain, they
    escorted them to the gas chambers.
    And I promised myself then, that I shall never forget her.
    And I memorialized her in one of my poems, which I call,
    Ballerina.
    Do you want me say the poem?
    If not, I go on right now.
    Ballerina.
    Little ballerina, I did not know your name,
    I only knew one thing that from far away you came.
    It was said about you that you were once a star,
    and you were privileged as to sing before the King.
    Look at what they are doing to this beautiful ballerina.
    They force her to dance naked, like in some arena.
    You blacked out the present and turned back a page,
    and you made believe you were on stage.
    Can you stop for me for a second?
    Can you stop filming?
    Yes.
    I need my glasses.
    Where can I go back?
    How about, arena?
    Go back to there.
    You blacked out the present and turned back a page,
    and you made believe you were on stage.
    When the SS stared at you, tears welled in your eyes.
    You swallow them bravely, and held back your cries.
    They led you away and brought you back bruised.
    I knew what they did and how you had been used.
    I took your hands in mine, and held them very tight.
    You opened up your eyes and said you'll be all right.
    Three days later, I watched you die.
    You were only 14 and I could not even cry.
    I didn't know your name, you beautiful little stranger.
    Yet we were sisters in the same danger.
    I curse them with a passion for this awful sin.
    I don't even know whether you had any kin.
    Little Ballerina, I'm naming you, Lori.
    And in your name, I'm writing this true story.
    Beautiful young Lori, you surely are in heaven.
    For this sin against you they will never be forgiven.
    She was not the only one that I have seen beaten to death.
    I have watched so many beaten to death for as little as being--
    because one of the girls took out a blanket
    to cover herself while we were standing at roll
    call and it was very cold early in the morning.
    This was enough of a reason to be beaten to death.
    After this incident, with the ballerina, the plot
    and the block eldest, every time there was a selection,
    she would hide me and my sister in one
    of the blocks that had-- that was storaged with blankets.
    There were hundreds of hundreds of blankets which were
    eventually shipped to Germany.
    So every time there would be a selection,
    she would send us into that storage place
    and when the selection would be over, she would take us out.
    In a way, I really owe my life and my sister's life
    to this block eldest.
    Her name was Fella.
    But my sister never gave up the idea
    of wanting to kill herself.
    So one day, being very desperate and trying always
    to find a way that she should live,
    when they were going everybody would
    try to hide from going to--
    this disinfect, to have the dress disinfecting
    and have that shower.
    But I went and I told a girl that because each time
    they took a different block, then
    I found out that a certain block was going to be disinfected.
    I told her I'll go in her place, she should go into my block
    just because you have to be counted
    and she couldn't be standing in that block
    alone that she should go into my block.
    And I will go instead of her for if she gives me
    a piece of bread.
    I needed that bread to show my sister that--
    to make a plausible story.
    So I went to be--
    to go to that disinfecting place.
    And when I came home I had hidden that piece of bread,
    because you can't take along that bread,
    I hid the bread under my blanket.
    And when I came back, I told my sister that a group of men--
    soldiers, a group of men and I had been engaged
    and that I had seen my fiance had passed by,
    and he yelled out to me that he had just
    seen women and children in their block with women and children
    and my mother is--
    he knows from somebody that my mother and her child is alive
    and to know that she should believe me
    she knew that I didn't have bread, that he
    tore me a piece of bread.
    So I, before--
    I went first I took out the bread and I showed her, look,
    he even threw me a piece of bread.
    So this gave my sister a little hope.
    Also, another way that in the beginning that I
    could persuade her that they are still alive was that I across--
    We have to reload.
    OK, you we're going to tell me another way that you
    used to try to keep your sister from killing herself?
    Yes.
    In the beginning, when we arrived
    there was Czech camp across--
    but it was separated with also wires.
    It was electric charged wires.
    But it was on the other side from us.
    And we would see there children, women and children.
    They were from Czechoslovakia, from Theresienstadt.
    And we envied them so much because they
    were there, the mothers with their children.
    And then this gave us somehow also a hope
    that there are children and it was such a beautiful thing
    to see-- little kids.
    And I would always show my sister, you see?
    They were lying because look here are children
    and here are mothers--
    all young women with children.
    But then, one day we got up and it was empty.
    They took all the children and all
    of the mothers, the whole families, and they killed them.
    And then I had absolutely no--
    no way of convincing my sister.
    And this is really why I tried to find this other way
    with going to the to those showers
    in order to make her believe another story about her child.
    And later on, I read about there was--
    his name was so Wilbur, and he wrote a book
    because his wife was there with the child
    and how she was killed and it was one of the best
    documentaries written in Czech.
    So this was another struggle that I really had to not only
    to save myself that I should live,
    but that I had to constantly to struggle that my sister should
    also live.
    And one day they came and they asked for volunteers.
    And even though the block eldest always
    cautioned that nobody should ever
    volunteer because you don't know for what you're volunteering,
    I was already so desperate that I decided to volunteer.
    They were looking for girls that were still looked half-decent
    and so I pinched my cheeks they should be red
    and I bit my lips that they should have color
    and I did the same thing to my sister
    and I told them, let's go and line up.
    I had no idea for what we were lining up.
    And they were selecting--
    and they were looking like we would be horses.
    They even looked into our mouths.
    And they were feeling our--
    you know, like touching us and it was very odd
    because I saw myself from work, but do we
    need to-- because they said that we will be going to work.
    But then my sister was not selected.
    They selected me and my sister wasn't.
    And then all of a sudden, I see my sister was just
    walking back to her--
    to the block.
    And this is when I knew that it is either we will both die
    or we will--
    I don't want to live without my sister, anyway.
    So I decided I will just make a run back to my sister.
    I expected if it would have been me,
    I would have gone to a different line and lined up again.
    But my sister was not--
    she had no fight.
    She didn't know how to try to fight her way into anything.
    So I just ran out and I decided, if they shoot me,
    they shoot me.
    And it was like a miracle till this day, I can never believe
    that I ran away and that they--
    nobody shot me.
    And when I ran into that block, this was one of the most
    exhilarating moments in my life because I embraced my sister
    and yet I expected that she is going to be just as happy,
    but my sister was in such a depressed mood that she did
    not-- she didn't-- she couldn't react to anything.
    And then the list came over to me and she said to me,
    you don't know from what you went away.
    Didn't I caution that you should never volunteer for anything?
    These girls, they were selected to be sent
    to be prostitutes for the--
    I don't know whether it was for the Germans
    or whether it was for Polish workers, for whomever.
    But later on, I read a book about this--
    The Dollhouse or House of Dolls.
    And there it was described exactly what
    happened to these girls.
    They would keep them three months,
    and after that, each one was killed, always.
    And before they would kill, them they would beat them terribly
    and they died terrible deaths.
    So I really was just lucky that I had--
    I mean, that I had the idea of running away.
    But then, later on, there was the block eldest told us
    eventually that the selections were more often always
    and then there was, she told, us there was not any more going
    to be any selections, they were just emptying the Auschwitz
    because the front--
    they were losing, on the Russian front, and they were--
    the Russians were getting closer.
    So they would take some camps, they
    would take on death marches, some they would take
    to the gas chambers, some--
    in some ways they of course, didn't
    want that there should be any witnesses,
    so they were trying to kill them in any way they designed.
    So when I asked my block eldest, what's going to happen to us?
    She said, I cannot hide you anymore because they are
    emptying the block.
    She said, well, she said some are going to work
    and some are going to the gas chambers.
    I'm going to be honest with you.
    I said, so where is ours going?
    She said, I don't know.
    I said, are you coming with us?
    She said no.
    Then I knew that ours is probably
    going to the gas chambers, because if it
    would be going to work, then they would be the last one.
    So I had no choice.
    I was just thinking to myself, oh my sister
    was going to get her wish, but I was very, very upset and very
    angry because I thought that nobody will ever
    know how we died, just like we didn't know about what
    was going to happen to us that nobody will ever find out now.
    And they really took us and we were standing already
    in front of the gas chambers and it was so quiet.
    You would have thought that we--
    nobody was crying, because everybody was really prepared.
    We knew that if they win, they're going to kill us
    and if they lose they're going to kill us.
    But until you live, you still have hope.
    And I was one of the optimists that always hoped.
    And I was holding my sister's hand very tight
    and I was so angry that I thought to myself,
    I'm not even--
    because I come from a very religious family--
    I'm not even going to pray.
    If this is how we are going to die, I am very angry at God.
    And then, it was taking very long.
    Usually, it doesn't take that long.
    And we were standing and standing and the doors
    still were not--
    they were not opening.
    So all of a sudden, one SS comes over and tells the other one
    in German that they have an order
    to take a group of girls the next day--
    like the next day--
    to work.
    And the gas chambers were not empty.
    They miscalculated because all the corpses were still inside
    and it takes a very long time until they take out
    the corpses.
    They were very systematic.
    After they would take out the corpses,
    they would first clean them and wash the walls
    because they would usually be bloody
    and you know from scratching.
    So they didn't want to-- the SS didn't want to waste
    too much time standing guard.
    So they said, you know what?
    Let's take these girls, let's take this transport
    for work and the transport that I
    had to go to my block-- we'll take them.
    So this was just a fluke of fate that we were
    taken to the railroad station.
    But before that, they gave each one a coat
    and they loaded us into the cattle trains, again.
    And we were traveling for a long time
    until we reached Nuremberg.
    And shall I continue?
    Until we--
    But I was--
    I got very sick.
    I had a high fever and I had all kinds of sores.
    Let's stop now, because we're near the end
    and this is a good place to stop, I think.
    So we should reload.
    I thought you want to ask questions?
    Why don't you start where you get put into the truck?
    So you're taken for work, and then go into how you get sick.
    I was very--
    I got very sick.
    I was already sick, but I was--
    I didn't give in.
    And I was running a high fever.
    I had my mouth was inside full of sauce and pus.
    And I couldn't stand, so I sat down.
    And this is the first time when this somehow shocked my sister
    into realizing that I am--
    I am sick.
    And she's sort of like just woke up from her depression
    and she goes over to a nurse--
    which that was the biggest no-no.
    First of all, you were not allowed to approach the nurses.
    You're not allowed to divulge that you are sick.
    Because if you're sick, then you're
    automatically a candidate for being killed,
    because especially if you're going for work,
    they want you to be able to work.
    But luckily, that we were out of Auschwitz
    and we were already on the way in the trains
    and that the trains were moving.
    And so said, please, can I have a--
    he was eating an apple, the SS.
    Can I have a piece of apple for my sister?
    He gave her such a slap that she was
    being thrown all the way back to the other side of the cattle
    train.
    And a weak voice I backed her, I said, don't you
    ever do that again.
    Please, you know that you're not allowed to.
    I was lucky that he didn't do more to her.
    So this is when she sat down and I was mostly dozing, sleeping,
    because I was not--
    I just was very sick.
    And she even took off her coat because I
    was shivering and covered me with her coat
    and it was like my sister had completely
    changed in those few hours that she
    was able to take care of me.
    And I had all kinds of nightmares,
    but I'm going to skip them because it would take too long
    away from the rest of the story.
    And we finally arrived to Nuremberg.
    And this was it was like a paradise, the change
    from Auschwitz, because we had already running water
    well we could drink when we wanted and we could wash
    and we were only two in each bunk--
    not 10.
    And they assigned us to ammunition factory
    which was right next to our--
    to the concentration camp.
    It was a concentration camp, of course.
    It wasn't something-- but in comparison,
    that we could just drink water or go to the bathroom.
    In Auschwitz, we couldn't even--
    we weren't allowed even to go to the bathroom
    only when they led us twice a day.
    This was-- everything was allotted to us.
    So but and-- but we still had to stand roll call
    and be selected for work.
    But they did not select to the gas chambers there.
    So my sister was working in the same factory where I was.
    And one day, as we were standing for roll call,
    they selected a group of girls to take in to the bakery
    to bring back bread.
    And they looked always for girls.
    For some reason, I looked apparently a little bit better
    than some of the girls because I was selected, also,
    to go into town to bring in the bread
    from them, to take bread from the bakery.
    And it was loaded on wagons and we were--
    it was on the wagon had wheels and we
    were bringing in these wagons with the SS, of course,
    guarding us.
    I was extremely happy to be selected.
    But my sister was not selected and I was so mad
    because she pushed out my sister.
    She said my sister, "hasslich."
    "Hasslich," means you're ugly.
    And she pushed her out.
    And my sister was one of the most beautiful girls in town.
    And even at this time, I was always so protective
    of my sister and I was--
    I loved her so much that I couldn't even
    forgive the SS man just for that word
    that she said that my sister was "hasslich"-- even in the camp.
    So I had hoped that I'll get a chance to steal a bread,
    and this is like a life saver to have an additional bread
    because we were constantly we were starving,
    and all we could think was about food.
    So I-- and I was always the one, the daring on,
    so I finally get hold of a bread and being that I had a coat,
    I put the bread inside my coat.
    But the girl next to me was scared and she said--
    because there was always a collective punishment.
    If somebody did anything, then everybody was punished.
    It wasn't just your punishment, alone.
    She said you better put back the bread if not, I'll tell on you.
    I old her, listen, I'll give you half and let's try it
    and I'm taking the bigger chance.
    You don't have to know and you will still get half.
    I'll share it with you.
    So I convinced her but when we came into the camp
    it seemed that we didn't know that the world was so close--
    it's nearer and nearer to the end.
    So they were a little bit more lenient.
    I mean, these SS did not watch so closely
    because when we came in with the bread,
    some other girls ran over and stole a few more bread,
    but an SS from the ones that were in the camp had seen it
    and she called the couple and she told them-- she didn't even
    tell her bring the girls.
    She just said, we want you to bring back the bread.
    Go collect the bread.
    But the couple was doing--
    to do such a thorough job that not only
    did she try to bring back the bread,
    but she was finding, also, the girls.
    She found a girl who had a half a bread,
    and that girl told her that I had the other half of bread.
    All I was sorry was that I didn't get a chance at least
    to eat up my bread.
    So the girls that she found that had the bread,
    she brought the bread and the girls.
    We were brutally beaten, and I never
    expected that I'll get out alive from there.
    They beat me with a wooden spoon that you
    cook for the whole army which is very thick and very, very long.
    And only when it was broken she threw it away in disgust
    and she let me go.
    But for weeks, I could only sleep on my stomach
    and I was in agony.
    And this is how I had to go also to work
    and I couldn't sit I was always seated on the edge.
    And the bombs were falling constantly because they were
    trying to hit the barracks, but they hit-- they never hit--
    and the factories.
    They never hit the camp.
    But they hit the factories and they hit the kitchen.
    But first, then the kitchen.
    So when they hit the kitchen, we didn't have much to eat.
    They still-- for the SS, they brought in from.
    But we went without food three days in a row.
    And we stayed only in the bunker and we would come out.
    It was already winter and we would just eat some snow.
    And after three days, we were lined up to get a potato.
    And this was all the food that we got.
    But then, they couldn't stay any longer
    because the factory was out of commission.
    And so they loaded us again on the trucks--
    on the cattle trains.
    And they took us to Holleischen, that was Sudetengebiet.
    It was at one time Czechoslovakia,
    but now it was occupied by the Nazis.
    And there, again, we were in a concentration camp.
    And they took us again to work.
    But it didn't take long and they bombed again the factory.
    So they didn't have anywhere to take us.
    They would take us to work by taking--
    just moving stones from one place to another--
    huge stones which were very heavy
    and dig ditches and make road blocks and all kinds of--
    even Sundays, they would come in and take us out and say
    do you think that you're going to be spoiled here
    and chase us on.
    Sorry, Cecilie Klein-Pollack.
    [INAUDIBLE]
    Are there incidents of resistance or sabotage
    that you can recall maybe from the times
    that you were working or even from the times
    in Auschwitz or anywhere along the way?
    In Auschwitz, I did not work, but there were--
    I was not part of it, but there was an organized, active group
    that not only was sabotaging but that they were
    connected with the underground.
    They collected information, and that was mostly possible
    by people who worked in-- they called it Canada, where--
    and the ones that were--
    when you came, your name was registered.
    They kept records.
    They hid those records, and there was also
    some that tried to escape, which, unfortunately,
    were, most of the time, caught.
    And my husband, who was a survivor, was in Buna,
    and he was present at many hangings that were--
    and those were hangings not just for the--
    for other things, not just for sabotage but some
    that were caught, and they hanged them.
    And the ones that worked in Canada--
    they were connected, and did all the recording,
    and passed on the information.
    I, personally, myself--
    I cannot say that I was could possibly have been involved
    because I was never in this kind of capacity that I could have
    had a chance.
    What about spiritual resistance of people
    that you saw around you or that you knew?
    Do you mean in a religious way?
    In a religious way.
    Yes, in a religious way, they would be praying, and even I--
    that food was one of the most important sustenance of you
    of your life.
    And you couldn't give up not even the least little bit.
    When it came, I fasted in Auschwitz.
    That's practically suicide, but I could not
    make myself eat on Yom Kippur.
    So I had fasted the whole day.
    And I didn't have a prayer book.
    I prayed in my mind to God, and what happened
    was that I could be doubly mad at God because that--
    it's a [NON-ENGLISH],, it's called, what the food comes in.
    The block eldest put away for those girls.
    There wasn't the only one because quite a few of us
    fasted, that we should have it when the fast was finished.
    And then we found that it was stolen,
    and we had nothing to eat.
    And in the [INAUDIBLE],, I was very angry,
    and I got a very angry poem that day in German.
    But I did.
    I fasted.
    When you think back, can you think
    of some of your sensory impressions,
    what things meant a lot to you, what kinds of sound
    do you remember, or maybe things visually that were important,
    or smells?
    Well, unfortunately, the smell was
    [? most-- ?] was the burning of those bodies.
    And then it was the people that, unfortunately, had dysentery,
    and it was an awful way to--
    certainly us had to smell.
    And we watched a lot of those people die, and they would be--
    and this happened.
    Many were beaten to death just for that
    alone because they could not keep their bowels.
    And they had no way of going to a bathroom.
    And then that's the music that was playing,
    which was a mockery.
    In a place where they were killing daily,
    they had this band of music consisting
    of prisoners that were forced to play music as they marched
    to work, and from work, and bringing back
    bodies killed while working because they
    were beaten to death.
    My husband told me--
    no, I'll have to describe to you just one scene,
    and that is my brother-in-law in Israel.
    This will show the brutality and the absolute--
    that you have to have even imagination to think up
    this kind of punishment.
    My brother was terribly hungry, and he saw the dog--
    he was working, and there was this dog, had a lot of food,
    and he ate.
    And then he walked away, and there
    was left a little piece, some food in the dog dish.
    My brother-in-law was also a very courageous person.
    He always got into trouble because of that,
    but he always tried to--
    they called it organize, organize some food.
    So he stole himself, and he took this piece of food,
    what the dog had left over.
    The SS came out with this dog, was his dog,
    and now my brother-in-law knew that now he's going to be--
    because they were trained to tear people apart,
    and some would do it as a sport.
    And this happened--
    I didn't witness it, but there are people that witnessed it.
    My present husband had witnessed something similar.
    And anyway, my brother-in-law was ordered by this SS--
    he brings out the dog, and he tells
    him to kneel in front of the dog and ask the dog's forgiveness,
    call the dog Herr, like Mister, and tells him, you dirty swine,
    you--
    all kinds of-- and while he is telling him that--
    so he's telling him that he is going to let the dog tear him
    to pieces and is whipping him.
    And then the SS behind are laughing
    because they like to see this Jew calling a dog Herr, Mister,
    and tells him to beg for his life.
    And my brother-in-law figured first,
    if he's not going to do it, he just
    wanted to play a little bit for time because he was really
    terribly scared.
    He only wished that he could a different death.
    But luckily, for some reason, he just beat him and beat him
    until he was senseless, and then some friends of his
    were allowed to take him away from there.
    And he wasn't torn to pieces.
    This is the life that people had to endure while they were
    in camp, and I had watched two girls being beaten to death
    for a few raw potatoes.
    And that was in Holleischen.
    They took us to--
    there was a field, and it was on a Sunday.
    And they needed potatoes for the kitchen, for the SS kitchen,
    so they selected a lot of girls, and my sister, too, quite
    a lot of people to dig out the potatoes from the field.
    And as we were digging out--
    [? Binka ?] had a coat, but my coat had a hood.
    So I took two potatoes, and I put it in the tip of my hood.
    And I put the hood on my head because it was still cold.
    And there were other girls, and two sisters were standing.
    They were also-- and they took potatoes,
    and they put them in their pocket,
    each one maybe two potatoes.
    My sister was terribly frightened,
    so I told her, you know what, we are not going to stand together
    because I was afraid she will keep looking at me,
    looking at me, that this would give me away.
    I told her that she should stand behind me because I was afraid
    if she would stand in front of me she should turn her head.
    I thought of everything to bring in those--
    how to bring in those two potatoes, those three potatoes.
    So I wasn't standing with my sister.
    I stood with somebody else.
    My sister was standing behind me,
    and these were also two sisters.
    And they were standing together, and each
    had a couple of potatoes.
    Why don't you do the potato story?
    From the beginning?
    Yeah.
    Do the [INAUDIBLE] take the potatoes [INAUDIBLE]..
    We were a group of girls--
    among them was my sister, myself, and many others--
    digging out potatoes or taken to dig out
    potatoes for the SS kitchen.
    On the way back, I decided to help myself
    to a couple of potatoes.
    I had a coat with a hood, so I put
    the two potatoes in my hood.
    [? Binka ?] was afraid that--
    my sister was very frightened that I should be caught.
    I told her that she should stand with somebody else
    and she would stand behind me because I was afraid,
    if she'll stand in front of me, she will turn back,
    and that could give me away.
    And in front of me was standing two other sister's side
    by side, and as we were coming back to our block,
    they started to search us.
    And I never expected that they would
    start searching for a couple of potatoes, but they found--
    nobody else really had.
    It was only those two girls and me.
    So they found the potatoes by those two sisters,
    and they took out--
    first of all, they had to throw the potatoes to the floor,
    and then they were beating them, and beating them,
    and beating them.
    And then they were already unconscious.
    They took four girls.
    Each one had to take them, one by the head, one by the foot,
    and didn't bring them back to our block.
    But they had to bring them into the SS quarters,
    and we never saw those two sisters again.
    That means that they killed them.
    Now, while I saw how they were being beaten,
    I saw myself already--
    that this is going to happen to me.
    And my feet was just--
    I was just shaking inside, but I was very lucky.
    They searched my pockets, and they never
    thought of searching my hood.
    So I brought in those potatoes.
    And those potatoes left such an impression on me,
    that this I will have to-- because it really
    has a psychological impact.
    First of all, when I was eating these potatoes,
    I told my sister, they taste like nuts.
    My sister said, they taste like apple.
    We couldn't understand why in our lives, when
    we were outside and free, how come we never ate raw potatoes.
    I made up my mind that, as long as I live,
    I'm going to eat raw potatoes because there is nothing
    more tasty than raw potatoes.
    I also shared it with the girls that was on my block, on my bed
    because I couldn't be that selfish.
    But then, when we were liberated--
    my first trip, when everybody was running,
    and they opened up the ladders, and they opened up
    where they had the salamis in the storage places,
    my first trip was to run to the field.
    I was digging feverishly.
    I dug up loads of potatoes.
    My sister first didn't know where
    I am because she was smart enough to go
    and came brandishing bread with salami,
    and she couldn't find me.
    Then it occurred to her to come to the field,
    and I wouldn't budge from those potatoes
    until I didn't bring them into the block.
    And I was the only one that didn't bring bread or salami
    because it was all gone by the time I had lugged in all
    those potatoes because this is what these potatoes meant
    to me at that time.
    You and your sister rescued each other.
    Can you talk about that kind of rescue
    as a common thing, and also, was there the opposite of that?
    I could have never survived and my sister
    could have never survived without each other.
    My whole focus and life became my sister,
    and I could only fight to live as long as my sister lived.
    And this was vice versa because eventually my sister
    in Nuremburg-- when this happened to me in the train,
    my sister became more--
    she became better.
    She somehow recuperated enough to help me and not think
    so much anymore of suicide.
    And she was a great help already in that way
    that I could already--
    let's say, if I had to fight for the food
    or to get something additional, that I
    didn't have to worry that my sister is, in the meantime,
    going to kill herself.
    And there is nobody--
    everybody had to have somebody in order to survive.
    For instance, my late husband, who was alone--
    they were like brothers.
    He adopted like one friend, that they took care of each other.
    Then one of the brothers wanted, also--
    because one of the brothers died, and he was so despondent.
    He wanted to run to the electric wires.
    My husband saved him, wouldn't let him go.
    And then when my husband was on the train,
    it was those open trains where they took them
    after death marches.
    But this was like a death match because it was in the winter,
    and you were traveling without food, without water.
    And it was snowing and freezing, and my husband lost for a while
    his mind.
    And he was trying to jump off the train,
    so his friend and his brother, the one that eventually died,
    sat on him.
    They sat on him that he shouldn't jump.
    So you always had to have somebody
    that would help you survive.
    If you were alone, you were never interested any further
    than the next person.
    You couldn't because you became so completely absorbed only
    in your day-to-day survival that you could not get any further.
    Nobody knew your name.
    We were called the Two Good Sisters because we
    wouldn't-- because it came to a point that even sisters would
    take away each other's food.
    And with us, it was that we would
    fight only that the next one should take a bite more
    or she should have more.
    She would cry why I didn't eat up
    my bread because I was afraid--
    after we didn't eat like for three days
    and we had that experience, I was
    trying to save up a piece of bread in case
    we are not going to have the next day
    And then, if there was a search--
    so they were not allowed to find.
    If they would find the bread, they would take it away,
    and they would still beat me up.
    So I would beg my sister, help me eat.
    Help me eat.
    They're going to beat me up if they find bread.
    So she would cry why she has to-- that she's
    eating my bread, and I will have that much less,
    and I may die sooner, or I won't survive, or I'll get sick.
    Yes, we could only--
    and everybody had to have somebody,
    and if you didn't, then you didn't survive, no matter
    how strong you were, unless had some kind of a choice position
    like block eldest, or stubenalteste, or kapo.
    Then you could survive.
    Otherwise, it was not possible.
    Define kapo for me.
    I've never heard of a kapo, [? let's say. ?]
    A kapo was in charge of all the blocks, not only of one block.
    Block eldest, was who was in charge of the block itself.
    She was responsible to the kapo or to the SS.
    The couple was responsible to the SS.
    We were called [NON-ENGLISH].
    [NON-ENGLISH] is slaves, but we were less than slaves.
    So we could never approach or talk to an SS.
    There was no such thing.
    You would be killed if you would.
    That's why I was so upset that my sister spoke directly
    to this SS.
    So a kapo was over the whole camp responsible.
    The block eldest was over each block,
    and the stubenalteste was over the--
    you should make your bed.
    It should be clean.
    You had to make your bed.
    And she would sweep out, and she would distribute the food.
    And these were the functions and--
    How did you-- how could one become one of those?
    It was appointed by the SS, but the kapo, let's say,
    could appoint a block eldest, or the SS
    could appoint the block eldest.
    But stubenalteste was appointed by the block eldest,
    and they had the same power and the same--
    they could kill you.
    They could beat you up.
    They didn't have to account to anybody into anything,
    and some became very vicious.
    And I don't even--
    I know that some of the prisoners
    then killed these kapos when they had a chance or some,
    even, block eldest.
    But I, myself, cannot--
    not that I condone it, but I cannot blame them that much
    because whatever they were--
    whatever they were they became because
    of the treatments that they--
    Let's just talk a little more about kapos.
    Could kapos have a good effect?
    Could they be good kapos or bad kapos?
    In some of your experiences, the block eldests helped.
    For instance, my block eldest helped me,
    but I'm sure that many probably hated her
    because when my sister, who lives in Israel,
    had seen her once and recognized her in Hadassah.
    She was dressed as a nurse.
    She was working there.
    And my sister wanted to run over to her to thank her
    because she really saved us, but when she called [? Vela ?],,
    she said [? Vela ?],, she said, I'm not [? Vela ?],, I'm not
    [? Vela ?].
    She so scared-- and she ran away--
    that my sister thought she'll do her a favor then.
    If she doesn't want to be recognized,
    then she should not pursue it.
    So apparently she must have felt that there was also in her life
    that she did--
    but I definitely know that she could not help it because,
    as I said, if you have to be-- when you have 1,000 people,
    and you have to keep order, you have to see that they should
    stand straight, and in line, and nobody should ever take out
    a blanket, and nobody should to ever be missing,
    and nobody should ever go without your permission
    to a bathroom, how can you control
    unless with fear and unless with beating and yelling.
    And this is what they did.
    As I said, I could never be one because I
    would be killed much before because I could never
    be brutal.
    My husband was a very gentle and very wonderful and kind person.
    He couldn't do this job, so he didn't except.
    He would rather die than be brutal to other people
    or hard on other people.
    And yet my present husband, who was--
    he was the longest prison.
    He was on Buchenwald for five and a half years.
    He told me that they were very brutal
    but that then there were a kapo that they would be very mean,
    and hit, and do everything when the SS was around,
    but when the SS left, he would--
    and they worked very hard.
    They worked in the mines, and I don't
    know whether coal mines or salt mines, that they had to bring--
    I don't know-- some very heavy stuff up.
    And they had to run with it, and both sides would be SS.
    And while they were running, they would hit them,
    and a lot of them just died, never got back to their camp
    again.
    But if the SS were not around, this kapo
    would say, OK, relax, don't have to work now so hard.
    But as soon as he would see the SS, you would scream,
    you filthy dog, get on with your work, you better do it faster,
    and scream, and carry on, and make a lot of noise.
    So you had two kinds of kapo.
    But most of them were not very good.
    They couldn't be good.
    I know somebody that is, in fact, from my late husband's
    town.
    He's a brilliant man.
    He is a doctor of philosophy, and he
    was a very religious man.
    And he was a kapo, and he had to hide for many months.
    People wanted to kill him because he was so brutal.
    In all your experiences, did you do anything for relief?
    Could you ever laugh?
    Was there ever-- did you--
    While I was there?
    Yeah.
    While I was there?
    Nobody, not only me.
    There was no laughter.
    You couldn't even-- but you couldn't afford to cry either
    because if you let yourself really believe and think that
    this is what happened, you pushed away--
    I just was not going--
    I used to dream a lot about my mother,
    but I would force myself--
    I was very attached to my mother,
    but I would force myself not to think about it.
    I would think about anything, always what I'm
    going to do after I get out.
    I never wanted to think that I'm going to die there.
    I would constantly-- like I would say a poem.
    This is how I would repeat the two addresses in Palestine
    because that time it was Palestine--
    now it's-- thank God--
    Israel-- my brother's address and my sister's address.
    This was all I was thinking, that I shouldn't forget
    their addresses because when I survive,
    I want to send them a cable that they should know,
    and I will go to join them with my sister.
    And I never let myself think what
    happened to my sister, what happened to my brother, what
    happened to--
    I just was thinking-- besides, you were always
    so hungry and starving.
    You could think of two things, either what you're going to do,
    or what you would like to eat, or what--
    or I remember what my mother used to cook
    and how I would love to have it, or I would
    to talk to my sister about.
    You remember this?
    You remember?
    This is what we're going to do.
    And this is all that I allowed myself to do.
    If not, I couldn't have--
    nobody could, under those circumstances, survive.
    And we almost didn't survive because it was everything
    prepared in Holleischen, that they were
    going to burn down our camp.
    Can you talk a little bit about the age
    of the people who survived?
    Were you pretty much doomed if you were a child
    and doomed if you were--
    Yes.
    In a real basic way, as though I'm new to this.
    Children had no chance to survive.
    I would say, yeah, unless they were--
    they had their [NON-ENGLISH].
    That means-- there would be, let's say, a block eldest or--
    a messenger.
    They would keep a little, very young girl as a messenger,
    and everybody would love her because she's so cute.
    And so she would be like protected by the--
    so a girl like that would have a chance to survive.
    Otherwise, from very young age, like from one year
    up to 14, 15, they had no chance to survive
    unless they were in different camps, but not where I was.
    And what about adults?
    Adults had slim chances, but still, as you see,
    some survived.
    And it would be only the ones that--
    the ones that had spirit, that really wanted to live,
    that didn't want to give in.
    Otherwise, it had nothing to do with age,
    and it had to do, also, with luck.
    For instance, my late husband always
    remembered one young man that was--
    he had a lot of willpower to live,
    and he was very religious.
    And he deeply believed in God, and he even
    believed that, whatever is happening now,
    he didn't blame nothing on--
    because God has a purpose.
    He believed that there is a purpose in everything.
    And he was with my husband on this death march, train march,
    whatever.
    When the train would pull in, they would chase them out.
    And they would sit in the snow to rest,
    and then they didn't have any more--
    no, they were-- they expected to get some buses or something,
    but then they decided that these trains are going to continue.
    So they started.
    They told them they should run, and whoever
    can run into the train is going to live.
    And this religious man--
    my husband made it, and who didn't make
    it was shot on the spot so that they had less people.
    And he was already by the train.
    My husband already gave him the hand to pull him in,
    but because he didn't make it on the train, he was killed.
    They shot him.
    And my husband always would light a candle
    for this man because he-- you never know who has family left
    or who didn't because families were wiped out to the last.
    So my husband-- my husband wasn't religious after this,
    and he always told me about it.
    And he always remembered this young man with so much spirit,
    and with so much hope, and with so much belief, and he died.
    It was really, very, very shortly before the liberation.
    We're about to run out.
    We should re-load.
    By the way, is this OK for--
    Change film.
    Camera [? alt 10 ?] is up, [INAUDIBLE] take 11 is up.
    When you gave your interview to the Museum,
    you said by the time of liberation
    you couldn't be trusted because you weren't human anymore.
    What did you mean by that?
    For instance, we were so used to take things in order--
    I mean, to eat, what had to do with food.
    And being that we had absolutely nothing--
    so I will demonstrate to you.
    And when we were liberated, and the English people--
    the English set up a kitchen for us.
    And we were given very good food.
    And I mean the food that was agreeable to us,
    because we couldn't be fed right away everything and having
    food because of the way our--
    when you starve, then you cannot start eating at one time a lot.
    So after we would be finished with the food,
    and we had one bowl, we would take the bowl with us,
    and we would want to walk out.
    And they would beg us, please, you're coming back.
    It's only today, you're coming back for lunch.
    You come back.
    You're going to-- we need you should leave the utensils,
    the dishes, because if not, we won't have left to give you.
    They could not persuade us, because our security was such
    that we thought if we walk out of there
    and we don't have in what to take food,
    then we wouldn't be able to eat.
    And I also thought, if we have this bowl,
    we can go and beg for food.
    So they had to stand by the door every time we are finished
    with a meal, and they understood us, and they would nicely--
    they would take it away from us.
    And another thing that we couldn't
    be trusted because when--
    and I was-- because we had absolutely no sense
    of right or wrong.
    For us, everything was right as long as we can take it.
    It was not, this is yours.
    And being that I came from a family
    that there was no such a thing as ever
    to take anything without asking, that was a very--
    that this is what shocked me, that I
    could have changed that much.
    Because when I was in recuperating place,
    and I was there in Prague--
    because at the train station the Red Cross
    was handing out sandwiches in Prague.
    I was on my way to Budapest because this
    was our meeting place.
    And somebody recognized me, a friend of my husband's,
    of my late husband's, recognized me,
    that I'm the fiancee of this Joe Klein.
    He recognized me, so he came over.
    And he said, you know, Joe is alive,
    and he is here in a recuperating place.
    Come, I'll take you to him.
    So I ran into the train, I told my sister, and we got out.
    And we came to this [PLACE NAME]..
    [PLACE NAME] was the name of this recuperating place.
    And as this man who was in charge is writing in--
    I had my maiden name, [? Goldensile ?] He's writing
    [? Goldensile, ?] he tells me--
    you know, he said, I had a friend--
    I've been to law school with a [? Goldensile. ?]
    I asked-- there was very few [? Goldensile, ?] I said, who?
    And he tells my brother's name.
    I said, this is my brother.
    He said, oh.
    He said, you-- this is your brother.
    Where is he?
    And I told him, he's in--
    at that time, it was Palestine.
    He said, oh.
    He said, everybody can stay here only two weeks.
    But you can stay as long as you want,
    because he-- and he didn't know what to do with us.
    He bought us the best food and made
    us toast and bought us cake.
    And he was so nice to us, and he was absolutely marvelous.
    And then four weeks later, my sister said,
    look, I want to-- maybe I can find my husband,
    because she was looking for her husband.
    The child, we knew already that it couldn't have survived.
    So she said, we want--
    let's go to Budapest.
    So I said, OK.
    Then I see this wonderful blanket on the bed.
    I said, you know what?
    When you go outside, you will stay
    in the front of the building, and my husband also,
    and I'll throw down the two blankets.
    And we'll take it with us on the train.
    I didn't go to say goodbye to this man,
    because I was afraid if he wants to come
    with us to the station he's going to see me walking out
    with these two blankets.
    So I didn't say goodbye.
    I didn't say thank you.
    I stole those two--
    to us, this wasn't--
    we called it organizing.
    We took those two blankets with us to the--
    we got on a train.
    These blankets lasted exactly until we didn't fall asleep.
    By the time we woke up, those blankets
    were gone because there were other survivors
    that meantime took them, took them away from us.
    So this is a kind--
    it took a while just to become normal, to realize,
    to know that what's yours is yours, what's mine is mine,
    that there is--
    it's now a normal world, that you have to have manners again.
    But you didn't have this.
    We completely changed.
    I didn't-- if I'm telling you couldn't trust me,
    you couldn't trust--
    you couldn't trust for no survivor for quite a while,
    until we became--
    we were not human.
    We were completely dehumanized.
    And what is--
    You can change a person to whatever you want.
    Tell me about being a survivor.
    You see, I want that when everybody
    will come to the Museum and will look
    at those pictures of our murdered families,
    I want you to know also how the survivor felt all these years.
    First, I want you to think back just for one minute
    how you feel when you lose one loved one.
    You mourn him, and you suffer if you lose one loved one.
    But you have at least the satisfaction
    of telling yourself you did everything
    you could for your loved ones.
    You were there to console him.
    You were there to give him aid, to bring a doctor,
    to hold his hand.
    You were there to hug him and to give him comfort.
    Now think how do we feel when we lost so many at one time.
    When we lost so many family, sisters, brothers, children,
    mothers, how can we feel?
    The rest of our lives, no matter what
    we do, no matter what we have in our lives,
    the void can never be filled.
    Our pain can never be healed.
    Because when I made all my happy occasion and I
    invited so many people, the ones I wanted most never arrived.
    And when we even go to parties, I always
    felt alone, no matter how many people were there,
    because I could really not relate completely to anybody
    except to other survivors.
    No matter even if I reach out to you,
    I couldn't get that close because you reminded
    me too much of what I could have been, and that I will never be.
    And when I go on vacation, I take along my whole family.
    I even feel guilty for enjoying, because I always
    say, how can I do this?
    How can I still do that?
    How can I have joy and they suffered such a terrible death?
    We even envied you, your grace, because you at least have
    where to go and bow your head.
    But what do we have?
    If my children ever ask me, when they was small,
    where are my grandfather, my grandparents, my mother,
    my uncles, my aunts, I always told them
    that I have in Czechoslovakia.
    I couldn't tell them, there, they were buried.
    I couldn't even talk to them, what
    happened to them, because I wanted my children to grow up--
    How would you like those you lost to be remembered?
    Not only the ones I lost I want to be--
    they should be remembered.
    I want the six million to be remembered
    as brave, courageous people who died only for one reason,
    because they were born of a different race.
    They were heroes in every way, because while they lived,
    they did some wonderful things that made this world
    a wonderful place to live in.
    Their loss is a loss for all humanity.
    And if anybody comes to the Museum
    and they'll see the mementos that we left behind,
    whether it's a little shoe, whether it's
    a letter, whether it's a [? Torah, ?] prayer book,
    remember these are our precious, precious valuables.
    Remember that from these books, these children studied.
    From these prayer books, our families chanted their prayers.
    And remember them when we are gone.
    And remember the agony of the survivors that
    had to live with these memories, and could never touch them,
    could never have them back.
    And we hope that future generations will never
    know of our pain.
    And that everybody will stand up to any form of persecution.
    I taught my children love and not hate,
    but I could never forget.
    I could never forgive.
    Why don't you tell me what kind of a person your mother was?
    Why don't you get your letter so that you
    can read it when you want to.
    First of all, this--
    I am very grateful that you're giving me a chance
    to tell about my mother.
    My mother-- [INAUDIBLE].
    My mother was one of the kindest people.
    She was loved not only by the children,
    but by the whole town.
    We were not rich.
    For American standards, we would be
    considered poor, for European standards, middle-class.
    We had a house.
    And we had three tenants, which we needed, really,
    to sustain ourselves with that rent.
    But my mother rented them to hopelessly poor people.
    And she never collected rent.
    She used to cook twice as much what we needed in order
    to bring down to those children of the tenants.
    And we as children wanted always to have the nice things
    that our friends had, and my mother couldn't afford them.
    We would always ask her, why doesn't [? Rosenthal, ?]
    who was very rich, does all those good deeds,
    and you should rent it to people who can pay rent?
    My mother always said, let her learn from me.
    I do not want learn from her.
    They need our help, and I'm going to give it to them.
    This is the type of person my mother was.
    My mother would have died, not only for my sister's child.
    I think she would have died for any child
    if she could help save a life.
    This was my mother.
    My brother that was killed, he was
    burned in a hospital with other patients.
    The whole hospital was burned down, not by chance,
    but willfully.
    He was a dentist.
    And he treated people who could not pay, free.
    And he would save up the money that he
    had and would take the poor children and take them to camp.
    But also, it wasn't a camp as sophisticated as here.
    He would just put up a tent, and that was a camp.
    And he would play the guitar for them,
    and he would teach them the Horah,
    and would tell them about our promised land, which he never
    reached.
    And this was his greatest desire.
    Because he gave his life for us.
    He had a certificate to go to Palestine.
    But he forfeit his certificate in order to help us.
    He didn't know that he cannot help us.
    And so he died and was killed.
    I really breakdown, but it's OK.
    I do it because we are the last of the survivors.
    And unless we put this record straight,
    there will be denials, how this never happened.
    So you better know that not only did it happen,
    but there aren't any words which we
    can describe the real agonies, the real tortures,
    and the wasted lives.
    And the ruined lives of the families that came back.
    I hope my children will never feel this pain.
    I try to protect them.
    I tried not to talk about it, but now that they are adults,
    they have to assume the responsibility
    and pass on this sad legacy from generation to generation.
    And it isn't only our children.
    It should be everyone's children,
    for you must remember them forever.
    They must not die in vain.
    And this must never be repeated again.
    And if you will let those cowards that write those books,
    because they don't want to assume
    the responsibility of what they did to us, then we have lost.
    They're marching again in Austria with the swastikas.
    How does it make a survivor feel when we see this?
    We may not be here anymore, much longer,
    but it is you that must prevent.
    And you can only prevent if you're not
    going to be afraid to read the books that we leave behind,
    to watch our movies that we leave behind.
    If you are not going to be afraid of a little sadness,
    then we have accomplished something.
    But if I hear sometimes that somebody comes over to me and I
    would speak in a school, and they'll tell me proudly,
    I cannot read this book.
    I cannot go to a movie to see--
    [AUDIO OUT]
    "Dear mother, This letter I'm writing to you
    will be placed in a museum.
    I was under the impression that only fine art
    finds its way to museums.
    However, this is a special kind of museum.
    You and six million like you created this museum.
    Mother, I always remember your wise words when you said,
    when you cry, you cry alone.
    And if you smile, the world smiles with you.
    Another of your wise sayings, time is the best healer.
    Mother, I smiled and smiled until my jaw hurt.
    I smiled when you were absent on my wedding day.
    I smiled when I gave birth to my children
    and you never held them in your arms.
    I smiled when I was for years hospitalized,
    and you could not comfort me.
    Later, when I missed all my happy occasions,
    and you missed all my happy occasions--
    our children's bar mitzvah, graduations, weddings,
    I kept smiling.
    Mother dear, the world did not smile with me.
    I felt alone, [INAUDIBLE],, because inside me, nothing ever
    smiled.
    But you were right about the tears.
    The world did not cry with me.
    I did cry alone.
    My tears were reserved for you, for my sister, [PERSONAL NAME],,
    for her husband Abraham, their three children,
    [PERSONAL NAME],, [? Dewy, ?] [? Ethel, ?] for my brother
    [PERSONAL NAME],, his wife [? Shoshana, ?]
    for your grandson Danny, whom you removed from
    my sister's arm so that she may live, and for the six million.
    As for time, mother dear, time did not
    work the magic of healing.
    And each phase of my life, my pain
    was emphasized, as was the realization of motherhood.
    For if I mourned you as a mother,
    I mourned you later as a mother and a grandmother.
    And if I mourn my sister as a sister,
    I mourned her later as a mother, for I
    knew what it meant for you to take
    your children to die with you.
    And I knew, my mother dear, what it
    meant for you to take your grandson to die with you.
    For only when you are a grandmother
    yourself do you know what it means.
    You were right, there was no balm.
    There was no balm for my wounds.
    And you were right, my mother, I will always cry alone.
    Please mother, implore God that our children's laughter
    should come from their hearts.
    And let our suffering and yours absolve all the generations
    to come.
    And may they know the inner peace which was never mine."
    Let's cut just for a minute.
    [AUDIO OUT]
    Yeah, sure.
    I was in Budapest for the last three years,
    living without papers.
    And the SS-- the Nazis came into Budapest.
    And I wanted to by all means to be with my family,
    because there was no where that I could hide anymore.
    And I was determined under any circumstances
    to reach my mother, my sister.
    And whatever will happen to them, I wanted to be with them.
    And we knew already that there will be a ghetto,
    and that I cannot save myself anyway.
    And I didn't want to save myself to begin with.
    I wanted to be with my family.
    So there was one family that--
    she was a Gentile, and she loved me very much.
    And she even wanted to adopt me.
    But I told-- and she told me she would get me papers so that I
    should be able to hide out.
    But I refused.
    And I told her instead that she could do me a favor,
    and she should buy me a first-class ticket,
    because nobody--
    no Jew could travel on trains at all,
    not third-class, not second-class,
    and certainly not first-class.
    And anybody that came to the railroad station, there
    was such chaos that they were arresting not only Jews, even
    Gentiles.
    Because first my-- this--
    Mrs. Schwartz was her name, because she
    was a very kind lady.
    And she was married to a Jewish man, but he had converted.
    But still her name was her husband's name.
    So-- [INAUDIBLE].
    No, Gold-- [? Goldwald. ?] It doesn't matter.
    I mixed up the name.
    So she went to the station and she told me that I would come--
    I would definitely be arrested, and that I shouldn't go.
    And she tried to persuade me, but I was determined.
    And so when she saw that I would not give in,
    so she bought me and also for my fiancee a first-class ticket.
    And I decided that I'm going to--
    we had to wear a star already, so I
    put on a rain-and-shine coat.
    I sewed on the star on my other coat,
    and I put over it a rain-and-shine coat
    without the star.
    And I bought-- and I asked her to buy me a anti-Semitic paper.
    And I was-- and I laid out this plan
    that as long as we can reach first-class,
    then nobody will think that any Jew has a nerve
    to sit at first-class, especially
    with having to wear a star.
    And I hope this way I will reach undetected my family's town.
    So I put on a rain-and-shine coat, and she came with us.
    And I just nonchalantly-- there was lot of cars at the railroad
    station.
    And I was getting into it.
    And my fiancee, we both carried anti-Semitic newspapers
    with those big headlines, and we walked with a very confidently.
    And we walk straight-- with the tickets
    we had already, we walk in straight to the first-class.
    We were not sitting together, because in case one is caught,
    then maybe the other one will reach the destination.
    But my fiancee also had taught me--
    had told me-- had coached me at home how I should jump off
    from the running train before we push in altogether
    to the station, because once it stops at the station,
    they were always asking for the identification cards.
    And being that I didn't have any,
    then I would be apprehended.
    It just so happens that my husband had--
    my fiancee had identification card,
    because he was there legally in Budapest.
    But anyway, I had this everything--
    we had just everything worked out ahead of time.
    And then when the conductor came,
    I was just praying silently that he shouldn't think--
    he shouldn't recognize me that I'm Jewish.
    But all he was looking is at this paper
    and gave me a very satisfied wink.
    And then I knew that I have made it.
    And he also did not bother my husband,
    just ask for the tickets.
    And he saw us reading these papers.
    And this is how we reached Huszt.
    Before it started slowing down, slowing down, we both jumped.
    First I jumped, then he jumped.
    And I fell, but it was-- grass was there,
    so it was we made it.
    And we came back.
    And my family, of course, was so ecstatic.
    But unfortunately, not for too long.
    Thank you.
    We need to do--
    we need to just be quiet for 30 seconds.
    We need to record just the sound of--

    Overview

    Interview Summary
    Cecilie Klein-Pollack discusses the deportation of her family from the ghetto in Hust, Hungary (now Khust, Ukraine) to Auschwitz concentration camp; her and her family's experiences upon arrival at Auschwitz, encountering Josef Mengele, and the death of her mother and young nephew in the gas chambers shortly thereafter; her experiences with Kapos and Blockälteste in Auschwitz and Birkenau; her sister's desire to commit suicide and her attempts to keep her sister alive; her memories of a young ballerina in her block who was forced to dance for the SS camp guards; her witness to the beating death of the ballerina and a poem that she wrote to memorialize the young dancer; her many delousing experiences in Auschwitz and Birkenau; her transport to Nuremberg where she and other female prisoners worked in a munitions factory; her time in Holleischen concentration camp in Czechoslovakia; the types of spiritual and religious resistance that she experienced in the camps; the cruel beatings that she and other prisoners received from SS guards in the camps; her time in Budapest, Hungary after World War II; and her memories of her mother as she was before her death in the Auschwitz gas chamber. During the interview, Cecilie Klein-Pollack recites her poem, "Ballerina," and reads a letter she wrote to her mother (a copy of the letter is located in the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Archives).
    Interviewee
    Ms. Cecilie Klein-Pollack
    Interviewer
    Sandra Bradley
    Date
    interview:  1992 February 26

    Physical Details

    Language
    English
    Extent
    4 film reels : color ; 16 mm.
    6 sound tape reels : analog, mono ; 7 in..
    2 videocassette (D2) : sound, color ; 3/4 in..

    Rights & Restrictions

    Conditions on Access
    Restrictions on access. See donor file.
    Conditions on Use
    Restrictions on use

    Keywords & Subjects

    Topical Term
    Ballerinas--Poland--Oswiecim. Blockälteste--Poland--Oswiecim. Concentration camp guards--Poland--Oswiecim. Concentration camp inmates--Religious life. Concentration camp inmates--Suicidal behavior. Disinfection and disinfectants--Poland--Oswiecim. Gas chambers--Poland--Oswiecim. Holocaust survivors--United States--Interviews. Holocaust, Jewish (1939-1945), in literature. Holocaust, Jewish (1939-1945)--Hungary--Personal narratives. Holocaust, Jewish (1939-1945)--Poetry. Jewish ghettos--Ukraine--Khust. Jewish women in the Holocaust. Jews--Suicidal behavior--Poland. Kapos--Poland--Oswiecim. Lice. Poetry. Prisoners--Abuse of. Sisters. Weapons industry--Germany--Nuremberg. World War, 1939-1945--Concentration camps--Czechoslovakia. World War, 1939-1945--Concentration camps--Germany--Nuremberg. World War, 1939-1945--Deportations from Hungary. World War, 1939-1945--Jewish resistance. Women--Personal narratives.

    Administrative Notes

    Legal Status
    Permanent Collection
    Provenance
    Sandra Bradley, a film production consultant for the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, conducted the interview with Cecilie Klein-Pollack on February 26, 1992, in Hallandale, Florida, in preparation for the making of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum exhibition film, "Testimony." The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Oral History branch received the films and tapes of the interview in August 1994. The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Archives received the films and tapes of the interview via transfer from the Oral History branch in February 1995.
    Funding Note
    The cataloging of this oral history interview has been supported by a grant from the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany.
    Record last modified:
    2022-07-28 19:52:08
    This page:
    https:​/​/collections.ushmm.org​/search​/catalog​/irn505571

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    Time Coded Notes (4)

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    Also in Testimony oral history collection

    Contains oral histories interviews with 32 Holocaust survivors from the United States

    Date: 1992

    Oral history interview with Gerda Weissmann Klein

    Oral history interview with Gerda Weissmann Klein

    Oral History

    Gerda Weissmann Klein discusses her memories of the German invasion of Poland; her time in the Bielsko ghetto; her deportation to a transit camp in Sosnowiec, Poland; her time working in slave labor as a weaver and loom operator; her friendship with Susie Kuhn and the bet they made together while on board a transport train on their way to Bolkenhain concentration camp; her memories of Frau Kligler, a guard in Bolkenhain; how she and a friend wrote and performed a play in their barrack at Bolkenhain; her memories of crafting a menorah from potatoes and celebration of the Jewish holidays in the camp; how she used her imagination as a defense against her captors; her move from Bolkenhain to Maerzdorf concentration camp where she worked harvesting flax from a swamp for linen production; how she celebrated her 18 birthday; her experiences on a death march through Germany; the death of her friend Susie Kuhn, shortly before liberation; and her memories of her liberation by American troops at a camp near Volary, Czechoslovakia.

    Oral history interview with Agnes Mandl Adachi

    Oral history interview with Agnes Mandl Adachi

    Oral History

    Agnes Mandl Adachi discusses her time spent in Switzerland shortly before the start of World War II; her memories of the takeover by the Arrow Cross Party (Nyilaskeresztes Párt); how she obtained Swedish citizenship through the Swedish embassy in Budapest; the mistreatment of mixed-marriage couples in Hungary, and how many committed suicide instead of divorcing; her baptism by the Protestant Bishop of Hungary; her work with Raoul Wallenberg and his many heroic efforts to rescue Hungarian Jews, his work with children and orphans in Budapest, and his successful attempt to persuade Adolf Eichmann to call off a massacre of 70,000 Jews in the Budapest ghetto; Wallenberg's disappearance in 1945 and subsequent searches for him in Russia; her reflections on the honors given to Raoul Wallenberg since World War II; and her personal thoughts on her role as a rescuer working with Wallenberg.

    Oral history interview with Edward Adler

    Oral history interview with Edward Adler

    Oral History

    Edward Adler, born in 1910, discusses his memories of the early days of the Nazi Party in Germany in the 1930s and his involvement in anti-Nazi activities in Hamburg, Germany; his memories of anti-Jewish boycotts; his memories of joining a military training camp and one experience when he was assigned to a guard detail for Adolf Hitler; his discharge from the military camp when it was discovered that he was Jewish; his arrest by the Gestapo for having a relationship with a Gentile girl; his imprisonment in Oranienburg concentration camp from June 1938 and his release from the camp the following September; his memories of Kristallnacht in Hamburg, Germany in 1938; his flight to the Netherlands with his family shortly after Kristallnacht and their subsequent immigration to the United States; his reflections on how Jews were unable to "fight back" and defend themselves against the Nazis; his memories of antisemitism in Germany in the 1930s; his recollections of the fate of his parents during the Holocaust and how his mother died in Treblinka concentration camp; and his memories of a visit to Hamburg, Germany in 1982 and the emotions he experienced during his stay there.

    Oral history interview with Harry Alexander

    Oral history interview with Harry Alexander

    Oral History

    Harry Alexander discusses his memories of persecutions suffered by Jews in his hometown of Leipzig, Germany, and the events of Kristallnacht in 1938; his flight to Milan, Italy after Kristallnacht and his experiences there with other Jewish refugees; his memories of receiving a one-day visa through the French embassy in Milan and his attempt to escape to France by train; his memories of the "St. Vemo incident" when fisherman from the village of San Remo, Italy attempted to ferry the refugees around a blockade that stopped the train he was on from entering France; his arrest in France and time in prison; his time in Antibes concentration camp in France, and later in a Marseille prison; his escape from a transport between concentration camps; hiding in a forest and his arrest there; being in Di Agilis concentration camp and his transport from there to "Jaffa" (Djelfa) concentration camp in Algeria, where he and other prisoners worked to build a railroad passage across the Sahara Desert; the types of torture in Djelfa; his memories of the various acts of defiance by prisoners in Djelfa and the role that humor played in surviving the camp; his liberation from Djelfa by British troops and his time in British military intelligence after liberation; his reflections on the cruelty of camp and prison guards that he encountered; the role that his mother played in his survival; the loss of his entire family in the concentration camps; his thoughts on survival as a form of heroism; and his thoughts on why more Jews didn't "fight back" and defend themselves against the Nazis.

    Oral history interview with Sam Bankhalter

    Oral history interview with Sam Bankhalter

    Oral History

    Sam Bankhalter discusses his memories of antisemitism in Poland in the 1930s and the activities of "Endeks" or Polish Nazis; the various types of persecutions suffered by Jews in Poland; the German invasion of Poland in 1939; his time living in the ghetto in Łódź, Poland; his transport to Auschwitz in 1940 where he participated in the construction of the camp; his recollections of various aspects at Auschwitz including the gas chambers, the crematoria, and selections by Josef Mengele and other doctors in the camp; the mistreatment of rabbis and priests in Auschwitz; the gassing of Romanies infected with typhus; the suicide of his brother, Chaim, and his own attempt at suicide; his memories of the arrival of his parents and sister in Auschwitz in 1944 and seeing them just before they went to the gas chambers; his death march from Auschwitz through Germany to Buchenwald concentration camp; his thoughts on the systematic nature of extermination in Auschwitz; the massacre of many camp prisoners at Buchenwald shortly before liberation; his thoughts on Holocaust survival as a type of heroism; his thoughts on humor as a way of coping in the concentration camp; his memories of the Sonderkommandos in the ghettos and in Auschwitz; and his time working in the crematoria at Auschwitz.

    Oral history interview with Frank Blaichman

    Oral history interview with Frank Blaichman

    Oral History

    Frank Blaichman discusses his memories of hard labor and various persecutions suffered by Jews when Germany invaded Poland at the beginning of World War II; his time in a ghetto in Poland; his escape to and time in hiding in a forest in Poland; his involvement with a group of Jewish partisan fighters in the forests of Poland where he was a key figure in acquiring firearms and organizing acts of sabotage against the Germans; avoiding capture by Germans and Polish collaborators; his memories of a visit by General Rolojemerski, head of the Polish Partisan Support; and his reflections on the choices Jews faced during the Holocaust and how those choices impacted survival.

    Oral history interview with Shony Braun

    Oral history interview with Shony Braun

    Oral History

    Shony Braun discusses his transport by train to Auschwitz concentration camp and his encounter with camp doctor, Josef Mengele, during a selection; the death of his mother and younger sister, Golda, in the gas chamber at Auschwitz; his selection to work on a Sonderkommando; his transport to a camp in France with his father and his brother, Zolton, where they worked in an ammunition factory and his work to sabotage bullets in the factory by mixing sand with gun powder; his transfer to Kochendorf concentration camp, a subcamp of Natzweiller concentration camp in France, where he labored in a salt mine; the death of his father in Kochendorf after a severe beating from SS guards and Kapos; his transport to Dachau concentration camp; volunteering to play the violin for camp personnel in exchange for food; how he was shot in the chest during the confusion of Dachau's liberation; how mental and spiritual strength played a role in his survival; his thoughts on his acts of sabotage as a form of heroism; and his "Symphony of the Holocaust," and how composing it helped him cope while in the camp.

    Oral history interview with Leo Bretholz

    Oral history interview with Leo Bretholz

    Oral History

    Leo Bretholz discusses the underground resistance movement in France and its two parts, the Forces Françaises de l'intérieur (FFI) and the Francs-tireurs et partisans français (FTPF); his involvement in the Armee Juive; his various arrests and escapes from prison during his time in the Jewish resistance movement in France; his use of false identification documents to avoid deportation; his time in Rivesaltes concentration camp; his time in hiding in various locations including the attic of a cousin's home; his reflections on being transported by cattle car and the horrors endured by people on the transport; his memories of the Anschluss in Austria in 1938; his witness to the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre in June 1944; his memories of Kristallnacht in 1938; and the fate of his immediate family during the Holocaust.

    Oral history interview with Chaim Engel

    Oral history interview with Chaim Engel

    Oral History

    Chaim Engel discusses his transport by train to Sobibór concentration camp; his time on a work detail to sort the clothing of gassed prisoners in Sobibór; his job cutting the hair of female prisoners in Sobibór before gassing; his thoughts on the differences between concentration camps and death camps; his experiences with the extreme cruelty of the Sobibór guards; his acts of sabotage while on the clothes sorting work detail; the massacre of an entire transport of prisoners from Belzec concentration camp; his participation in the murder of a German Kapo; the prisoner revolt in Sobibór in October 1943; his escape after the prisoner revolt and his time in hiding with other Sobibór escapees; his relationship with his girlfriend, Selma Engel, also a prisoner from Sobibór, and their time in hiding on the farm of a Polish farmer; his thoughts on the choices made by Jews in order to survive during the Holocaust; and his thoughts on heroism as part of the prisoner revolt in Sobibór.

    Oral history interview with Selma Engel

    Oral history interview with Selma Engel

    Oral History

    Selma Engel discusses her arrival in Westerbork concentration camp; her transport from Westerbork to Sobibór concentration camp; her participation in a work detail sorting the clothing of gassed prisoners in Sobibór; her first meeting with her future husband, Chaim Engel; her recollections of the three separate camp areas in Sobibór; the mistreatment of Dutch prisoners in Sobibór; the extreme cruelty of the SS guards in Sobibór; her acts of sabotage while sorting the clothing of the gassed prisoners; the prisoner revolt in Sobibór in Oct. 1943; her escape from Sobibór during the prisoner revolt; her time in hiding with Chaim Engel, her future husband, on the farm of a Polish farmer; her reliance on Chaim for survival; and her reflections on the German and Ukrainian guards in Sobibór and the choices they made to be cruel to the prisoners there.

    Oral history interview with Paulette Fink

    Oral history interview with Paulette Fink

    Oral History

    Paulette Fink discusses her involvement in the resistance movement in France during World War II and her sabotage activities; the French Jewish Scout movement in France (Eclaireurs de France); the saving of many Jewish children by a French Huegenot pastor and other citizens in the town of La Chambon-sur-Lignon, France; the amount of risk and fear that she lived with during World War II; getting fake ID cards made; her marriage in 1934 and the death of her husband, a member of the French resistance, in 1944; her thoughts on her resistance activity as a form of heroism; her involvement in the illegal immigration of thousands of Jewish displaced persons to Israel after World War II; and her continued dedication to and support of the State of Israel since World War II.

    Oral history interview with Sam Goldberg

    Oral history interview with Sam Goldberg

    Oral History

    Sam Goldberg discusses his use of the false name Sigmund Kamkowsky in order to avoid persecution; his time working with the underground movement in and around Warsaw, Poland; his time living and working in the Warsaw ghetto; his escape from the Warsaw ghetto to the Pietkov ghetto in order to locate family members; his acts of smuggling and encounters with the SS; the liquidation of the Warsaw ghetto and his subsequent transport by train to Birkenau concentration camp and his eventual move to Auschwitz; hearing about Josef Mengele's medical experiments in Auschwitz; working in the "Canada" commando, sorting the clothing and valuables of prisoners near the gas chambers in Auschwitz; working in the commando assisting prisoners upon arrival at the Auschwitz train platform; his experiences with Kapos and Blockälteste in Auschwitz; the prisoner revolt in the Auschwitz crematoria in October 1944; his evacuation from Auschwitz by train; his participation on a death march; his friendship with a young boy named Herbie; his time in Flossenbürg concentration camp after a death march and his memories of the various colored triangle badges he saw there; his transport to Mittendorf concentration camp near Munich, Germany via Prague, Czech Republic; his experiences during Allied bombing raids on Mittendorf; his memories of the liquidation of the Romani camp in Auschwitz; his acts of sabotage while working on airplanes; his thoughts on spiritual resistance; his liberation by American troops during a transport; how telling jokes and singing songs helped to lift the spirits of fellow camp inmates; his memories of the meeting between Josef Mengele and Chaim Rumkowski, head of the ghetto in Łódź, Poland upon Rumkowski's arrival in Auschwitz; his thoughts on the choice of German Kapos and soldiers to be killers; his reflections on the nature of humanity considering his Holocaust experiences; and the selection process that took place upon the arrival of new transports in Auschwitz.

    Oral history interview with Siegfried Halbreich

    Oral history interview with Siegfried Halbreich

    Oral History

    Siegfried Halbreich discusses his desertion from the Polish Army in October 1939 and his brief time working as a pharmacist in Oświęcim, Poland; his imprisonment in Sachsenhausen concentration camp and the cruel treatment of prisoners that he witnessed there; his time in Gross-Rosen concentration camp and his work in a stone quarry near the camp; his experiences with Blockälteste in Gross-Rosen; his time in Auschwitz concentration camp and his work as a nurse in the camp hospital; his role as Blockälteste at one time in Auschwitz; his participation in a death march after the evacuation of Auschwitz; the camp personnel hierarchy in Auschwitz from the SS guards down to the Kapos; his thoughts on the role of mental resistance as a part of survival; the support he received from friends and family while in the concentration camps; his memories of religious practice and celebration in Sachsenhausen; his role as teacher and leader of young Jews for religious education in Auschwitz; the various types of torture he witnessed in Sachsenhausen; and his thoughts on taking revenge on Germans after liberation.

    Oral history interview with Isadore Helfing

    Oral history interview with Isadore Helfing

    Oral History

    Isadore Helfing discusses his arrival in Treblinka concentration camp and his work burying the bodies of persons who died during the transports in mass graves in the camp; his recollections of the physical layout of Treblinka and how prisoners were led through the gassing process; his recollections of many people dying inside the railroad cars while waiting to unload in Treblinka; his experiences with Kapos in the camp; his participation in the prisoner revolt in Treblinka and his escape to a nearby forest; his time in hiding after his escape from Treblinka; his witnessing the murder of a German camp guard by a fellow prisoner and his thoughts on the murder as an act of revenge; how German and Ukrainian guards in the camp made choices to follow orders; the attempts of some prisoners to pray in the camp; participating in soccer games on Sundays, a free day in the camp; the suicides of several persons from his barracks; the orchestra in the camp and a boxing match that took place one day; and the fate of his parents in Treblinka the day before his arrival in the camp.

    Oral history interview with Kurt Klein

    Oral history interview with Kurt Klein

    Oral History

    Kurt Klein discusses the political situation in Germany during the early 1930s and how Jews did not take the Nazi rise to power seriously; his thoughts on why the Nazi party gained power so easily; the persecutions suffered by Jews and the boycott against Jewish businesses in the early 1930s; his withdrawal from school and his apprenticeship in the printing business; his immigration to the United States in 1937; how he learned of Kristallnacht events through newspaper reports in the United States; his service with the Fifth US Infantry Division of the Third Army during World War II and his assistance to Jewish women abandoned by their German guards in a factory building in Volary, Czechoslovakia; his first meeting with his future wife, Gerda Weissmann Klein, in the factory and the development of their relationship after World War II; and his participation in the interrogation of Erich Kempka, a former chauffeur for Adolf Hitler.

    Oral history interview with John Komski

    Oral history interview with John Komski

    Oral History

    John (Jan) Komski discusses the German invasion of Poland; his involvement in the resistance movement in and around Kraków, Poland; his imprisonment at Auschwitz concentration camp in June 1940; the different types of prisoners in Auschwitz and the various identification badges and triangles used to mark the prisoners; the museum and orchestra in Auschwitz; how he planned and prepared a successful escape from Auschwitz by disguising himself as an SS guard and using false identification documents; the types of mental and spiritual resistance used to survive in Auschwitz; his thoughts on how some Auschwitz prisoners utilized special talents and skills to survive in the camp; the gassing of children and their mothers immediately upon arrival in Auschwitz; his memories of Palietsch, the official executor in Auschwitz; the tattoos used to identify prisoners in Auschwitz and the tattoo he received when he entered Birkenau concentration camp; and how families were treated differently from individuals upon arrival in Auschwitz.

    Oral history interview with Stefa Kupfer

    Oral history interview with Stefa Kupfer

    Oral History

    Stefa Kupfer discusses the German invasion of Poland in 1939 and the persecutions suffered by Jews during the German occupation; being 10 years old when the war started; her memories of the Gestapo and their dogs; how the Germans used citizens from her town for forced labor; the confiscation of Jewish property by the Germans; her mother's refusal to register the family with the German authorities, thereby saving them from a round up; her family's time in hiding in the attic and basement of an apartment building in Krosno, Poland, and how she and her family were protected and ultimately saved by Penny Olefska, a Christian woman; the various ways she and her family occupied themselves while in hiding; her thoughts on living in constant fear while in hiding; the assistance her family received from Mr. Vishbitsky, a Polish farmer; her thoughts on those who risked their lives to rescue and hide Jews during World War II; her recollections of the many possessions she and her family lost during the war; and the responsibility of each Holocaust survivor to tell his or her story in order prevent another Holocaust.

    Oral history interview with Abraham Malnik

    Oral history interview with Abraham Malnik

    Oral History

    Abraham Malnik discusses the German invasion of Lithuania; his family's life in the Kovno ghetto; how his father, Josef Malnik, rescued him and his mother from a selection of elderly, children, and handicapped persons, thereby saving them from the massacre at the Ninth Fort near the ghetto in Kovno (Kaunas), Lithuania; his time hiding in a cellar in the Kovno ghetto to avoid capture during a "Kinder aktion" by the Germans; the liquidation of the Kovno ghetto during which many of the remaining Jews were massacred by Lithuanian collaborators; his family's transport to Stutthof concentration camp and subsequently to Dachau, Flossenbürg, and Leitmeritz (Litomerice) concentration camps; how he and his father participated in forced labor in a mine in Leitmeritz; the yellow star and number insignia the Germans assigned to him in Leitmeritz; his experience with Polish Kapos in Leitmeritz; his time spent in the Leitmeritz hospital with typhoid fever; his "walk" to Theresienstadt concentration camp in April 1945 and his liberation there by the Soviet Army; his thoughts on taking revenge against the Germans for their brutality during the Holocaust; and the special bond he and his father shared throughout their Holocaust ordeal.

    Oral history interview with Lilly Appelbaum Malnik

    Oral history interview with Lilly Appelbaum Malnik

    Oral History

    Lilly Appelbaum Malnik discusses her time in hiding in Belgium; her forced labor in a factory; her neighbors in her apartment building who denounced her and her aunt and uncle to the Germans; her family's arrest and their time in the Malines detention camp in Mechelen, Belgium; her family's transport from Belgium to Birkenau concentration camp and her encounter with Josef Mengele upon arrival; the tattoo number she received on her arm; volunteering for work in Birkenau; her transfer to Auschwitz concentration camp and her work in the kitchen there; the transports of new prisoners into Auschwitz and how many prisoners were sent immediately to the gas chambers; contemplating suicide while in Auschwitz; how some prisoners in Auschwitz prayed as a form of resistance; her time on a death march from Auschwitz to Bergen-Belsen concentration camp; her friendship with a young girl named Christian while in Bergen-Belsen; Christian’s death from typhus; and her thoughts about how the young had a better chance of survival in concentration camps.

    Oral history interview with Ludmilla Page

    Oral history interview with Ludmilla Page

    Oral History

    Ludmilla Page discusses being arrested with her mother and members of the Polish intelligentsia in November 1939; their transport to Kraków, Poland, where they spent time in a fortress prison; her thoughts on the similarities and differences between the Kraków and Warsaw ghettos; her relationship with Oskar Schindler and how he protected the Jews working in his factory; how Schindler compiled his list of names of prisoners from the Płaszów concentration camp; Schindler’s attempt to persuade a fellow factory owner, Julius Madrich, to save the Jews working in his own factory; how Jewish workers in Schindler's Bruennlitz concentration camp factory sabotaged bomb shell casings; an incident in which she and other female Schindler Jews were transported to Birkenau by mistake instead of going directly to Bruennlitz; how some of the Schindler Jews used gold fillings to fashion a gold ring for Schindler on his birthday in April 1945; Schindler’s friendships with the Jews he rescued; and his designation as Righteous Among the Nations.

    Oral history interview with Leopold Page

    Oral history interview with Leopold Page

    Oral History

    Leopold Page discusses his first meeting with Oskar Schindler and Schindler's physical appearance; how Schindler rescued several female prisoners from Auschwitz (Birkenau) concentration camp and male prisoners from Gross-Rosen concentration camp after they were misrouted on the way to Bruennlitz concentration camp; the establishment of the Kraków ghetto and resistance activities he witnessed there; how he and his wife, Ludmilla Page, escaped from the Kraków ghetto during the liquidation action; how he and other prisoners kept statistics on the number of prisoners killed each day in Plaszów concentration camp; his memories of Amon Goeth, commandant of Plaszów concentration camp; how the prisoners of Plaszów prayed as a form of resistance; how friendships among the prisoners helped them survive; how the Schindler Jews sabotaged bomb shell casing while working in Schindler's factory in Bruennlitz concentration camp; Schindler helping the Jews disarm and imprison their German captors in Bruennlitz; how Schindler attempted to persuade Julius Madrich to save the Jews working in his own factory; Russian soldiers liberating the Schindler Jews in Bruennlitz; Oskar Schindler receiving the award of Righteous Gentile for his efforts to save Jews during the Holocaust; his memories of Kristallnacht in November 1938; and how some prisoners in Bruennlitz fashioned a ring from gold fillings as a birthday gift for Schindler in April 1945.

    Oral history interview with Esther Raab

    Oral history interview with Esther Raab

    Oral History

    Esther Raab discusses her transfer from a forced labor camp to Sobibór concentration camp; how Sobibór commandant Wagner selected her and other girls to work sorting the belongings of people gassed in the camp; how the SS camp guards processed arrivals of new prisoners in the camp; the extreme cruelty of two camp guards, Frenzel and Wagner; how she and other workers found notes among the belongings of prisoners from Treblinka and Belzec concentration camps and how the notes mentioned revenge against the Germans; how she and other Sobibór inmates planned and executed the revolt in the camp; escaping into the woods near the camp during the revolt and receiving a gunshot wound during the escape; how the Sobibór camp guards punished prisoners who attempted to escape; her thoughts on the differences between a concentration camp and a death camp; how she and other Sobibór escapees received food and shelter from a Polish farmer; her memories of life in Poland before World War II; her time in "Stafnovushulke" forced labor camp; her thoughts on her actions during the Sobibór revolt as being actions of heroism; the types of spiritual resistance that occurred in Sobibór; and how her mother prepared her for World War II by telling her stories of life in Poland during World War I.

    Oral history interview with Agi Rubin

    Oral history interview with Agi Rubin

    Oral History

    Agi Rubin discusses being age 14 when she and her family were deported to Auschwitz; her family's arrival in Auschwitz concentration camp in 1944 and her separation from her mother during a selection; being registered and tattooed in Auschwitz; her work on a special commando sorting the belongings of recently gassed prisoners; how she and others in the commando sabotaged the clothing they sorted and tied into bundles; how the camp guards in Auschwitz singled out certain commandos for certain tasks; her observation of the gassing and cremation processes in Auschwitz and Birkenau; her experiences with a Kapo in Auschwitz; her memories of the "Garnerlager" or so-called "Gypsy" camp in Auschwitz; her observations of the selection process conducted by Josef Mengele at the Auschwitz train platform; her thoughts on how the crematoria in Auschwitz affected her senses; how some prisoners recited prayers on their way to the gas chambers; her experiences with lice; her time in Ravensbrück concentration camp; being sent on a death march in January 1945; and her thoughts on heroism as a part of survival. At the end of the interview, Rubin displays and discusses photographs from a family photo album.

    Oral history interview with Bart Stern

    Oral history interview with Bart Stern

    Oral History

    Bart Stern discusses his experiences on a cattle car transport from Hungary to Birkenau concentration camp with his brothers; his subsequent move to Auschwitz concentration camp; his time working in a coal mine near Auschwitz; how religious celebrations became a form of resistance in Auschwitz; how he and other prisoners told jokes as a way of coping; his experiences with Kapos in Auschwitz; his thoughts on humanity in light of his Holocaust experiences; his thoughts on revenge; and how many Jews resisted and did not go willingly to their deaths.

    Oral history interview with Tina Strobos

    Oral history interview with Tina Strobos

    Oral History

    Tina Strobos discusses her experiences during the German invasion of the Netherlands and how life changed for the citizens of Rotterdam; the role of Arthur Seyss-Inquart in the Nazi-occupation government of the Netherlands; the role of the Gestapo during the German occupation of the Netherlands; her involvement in an underground resistance group in the Netherlands lead by Johann Brower; her time in hiding and the hiding place she used inside her own home; the underground work of the "Lomlok Organization" to help Jews find hiding places; how she and her family rescued other Jews by letting them hide in their Rotterdam home; and how some Nazi sympathizers in the Netherlands denounced and betrayed their Jewish neighbors.

    Oral history interview with Emanuel Tanay

    Oral history interview with Emanuel Tanay

    Oral History

    Emanuel Tanay discusses how life changed for the Jews in Miechów, Poland, after the German invasion in 1939; how the Germans increased persecutions against Jews with collaboration by Ukrainians and Lithuanians; his thoughts on the differences between Polish Jews and Jews from Western Europe; his family's time in the ghetto in Miechów, Poland; hiding in a monastery in Mogila, Poland, where he posed as a novice for the priesthood; the assistance he received from the monastery's prior, Father Kuhar; his flight from the monastery when the Gestapo raided his cell; how the Germans imprisoned Father Kuhar and other priests from the Mogila monastery in Auschwitz concentration camp for giving assistance to people in the underground resistance; his thoughts on how being a teenager helped him to survive; how he and his family fled to Hungary in 1943 using false identification papers; his time in a prison in Budapest, Hungary, and subsequent escape; volunteering to the Gestapo to be executed and how the Gestapo failed to carry out the execution; his brief time in the ghetto in Warsaw, Poland, just before the uprising; and his thoughts on what special qualities a person needed to be a survivor.

    Oral history interview with Bella Tovey

    Oral history interview with Bella Tovey

    Oral History

    Bella Tovey discusses how life changed in Sosnowiec, Poland, and persecutions increased for Jews after the German invasion; how the Germans established a ghetto in Sosnowiec; how members of the intelligentsia started to disappear and how others went to work camps; being taken to a work camp and her parents gained her release by having her younger sister, Pina, replace her in the camp; the liquidation of the Sosnowiec ghetto and her family's move to a smaller ghetto called Srodula; her time in Gräben (a.k.a. Gräen) concentration camp near Striegel, Germany, where the prisoners worked in a flax mill; her experiences with a Kapo in Gräben labor camp; how the Germans incorporated Gräben into the camp system of Gross-Rosen concentration camp; her time on a death march to Bergen-Belsen concentration camp and her bouts with typhus and typhoid while in the camp; the various friendships that she had with other girls during her time in the camps; her thoughts on spiritual resistance in the camp; her reaction to hearing about what happened to Jews in Auschwitz; the liberation of Bergen-Belsen by British troops in 1945; and her loss of faith in God during the Holocaust and how she regained her faith and began her Jewish and religious studies later in life.

    Oral history interview with Helen Waterford

    Oral history interview with Helen Waterford

    Oral History

    Helen Waterford discusses her family's time in hiding in the Netherlands and how she and her husband decided to hide their daughter with another family; her family's relationship with Joe Fisch, a rescuer of many Jews in the Netherlands; her and her husband's arrest and deportation to Auschwitz concentration camp via Westerbork concentration camp; her experiences during a selection upon her arrival in Auschwitz; her thoughts on the lack of resistance in Auschwitz; how at one time she was in a barracks with Anne Frank and Anne Frank's mother; her memories of Josef Mengele in Auschwitz; her move from Auschwitz to work in a factory in Czechoslovakia; and her opinions on humankind in light of her Holocaust experiences and how she does not consider survival to be an achievement.

    Oral history interview with Ruth Webber

    Oral history interview with Ruth Webber

    Oral History

    Ruth Webber discusses her memories of the Germans invading Ostrowiec Swietokrzyski, Poland, in 1939; her time in Botsohov (Bodzechów) work camp with her parents; moving to the ghetto in Ostrowiec Swietokrzyski, Poland with her mother; their escape from the ghetto and return to the Botshohov work camp; her time in Austrowiec (Ostrowiec) concentration camp; her time in Starachowice concentration camp; her transport to Auschwitz concentration camp; her arrival in Auschwitz and her memories of the registration process; her time in the Auschwitz infirmary suffering from measles; her memories of the Auschwitz crematoria and her realization of what was happening to the prisoners there; what it was like to be a child among mostly adults in Auschwitz; her move to the "children's block" in Auschwitz after her mother moved to another camp; the special care and protection she received from her mother while in Auschwitz; how she considers her mother to be a hero; and her thoughts on humanity in light of her Holocaust experiences.

    Oral history interview with Ernest Weihs

    Oral history interview with Ernest Weihs

    Oral History

    Ernest Weihs, born in Vienna, Austria in November 1908, discusses his conversion from Judaism to Lutheranism at age eleven; the changing situation for Jews in Vienna, Austria in 1938; the aid that he and his future wife received from Swedish missionaries in Austria; his imprisonment in Theresienstadt in 1942; his marriage while in Theresienstadt; his escape from a death march on the way to Dachau concentration camp; his experiences with Kapos; the religious practices that took place in Theresienstadt; his brief time in Auschwitz concentration camp; and his witness to a suicide while in Kaufering concentration camp.

    Oral history interview with Norbert Wollheim

    Oral history interview with Norbert Wollheim

    Oral History

    Norbert Wollheim discusses his parents' deportation from Berlin, Germany in 1943 and his deportation with his wife and son to Auschwitz concentration camp in 1943; how some prisoners prayed and celebrated Sabbath while on the transport to Auschwitz; his arrival in Auschwitz and his separation from his wife and child; his registration and tattoo; the role of the SS in Auschwitz; his time working in the Buna factory near the camp; his work as a welder in Auschwitz; his friend Fritz Schaeffer who committed suicide while in Auschwitz; his experiences with Kapos; his thoughts on spiritual resistance in the camp; his memories of Kristallnacht in Germany in 1938; his involvement in a Kindertransport of children from Berlin to England shortly after Kristallnacht; his memories of life in Berlin before 1933 and how conditions changed for Jews after the Nazis came to power; his memories of the voyage of the St. Louis; his thoughts on revenge; his feelings at the time of liberation; his thoughts on the different types of concentration camps; his thoughts on forced labor and work camps used during the Holocaust; the choices he made in order to survive; how he relied on the friendships with other inmates for support and how he befriended British prisoners of war while in Auschwitz; how age and gender played a role in who survived the Holocaust; and his memories of the "Appel" in Auschwitz.

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