Oral history interview with Henny Wohl

Oral History | Digitized | Accession Number: 1990.339.83 | RG Number: RG-50.161.0083

: OK, this is David Rich and Henny Wolf, March 24, 1981.
: Mrs. Wolf, I would just like to ask you some general questions
: as we start.
: And I want you to feel free to elaborate as much as possible.
: Go on.
: I'd like to know first where you were
: born and something about your family that you remember.
: To tell you, I was born in Landau.
: Landau?
: Landau is a city in Palatinate am Rhein.
: That's Rhein-- called Rheinpfalz.
: That's in southern Germany.
: OK, southern Germany.
: On the left side of the Rhine, near France,
: near the French border.
: OK.
: The only daughter of very good parents
: and very good grandparents.
: Did your grandparents live in the house with you?
: No.
: No.
: The grandparents were owner of a very fine wine farm near--
: not in Landau, where we lived--
: in the best part of German wine, the Dürkheim und Deidesheim.
: I don't know if you've know this, near Mannheim.
: OK.
: And I spent all my vacations there.
: And I loved it.
: And they raised the finest wines.
: And those wines were exported mostly
: to America, bottled and brought to America, sold here.
: I even found in Cincinnati society people who
: bought the wine for my family.
: [PHONE RINGING]
: Your grandparents, was that your mother's--
: My mother's parents.
: Your mother's parents.
: My father's parents died years ago and lived also
: in Rheinpfalz in the state near the French border,
: direct near the French border, about 10 minutes
: from the Prussian-French battlefield in 1870,
: in this neighborhood.
: Do you know how long your grandparents,
: both sets of grandparents lived in that area?
: They were born there.
: And their parents were born there.
: And their parents again.
: They lived there--
: I have family tree from one family--
: and 1712.
: But they lived there since 1200.
: In that same area?
: The same area.
: This one family.
: From the other-- from my mother's family,
: from the wine farm, I do not know how long they lived,
: but they lived there very long too.
: And they were highly esteemed.
: They lived among the Gentiles.
: There was no difference.
: When my grandfather died, the Protestant church bells
: were ringing when he was buried.
: And the Catholic Church bells were ringing.
: They had the bells ringing for the Jew.
: So you could see how well liked they were.
: He was held in very high esteem.
: High esteem.
: That wasn't very normal for that to happen.
: No, no, never.
: For a Jew this never happened before.
: I never heard of it.
: And did your parents know each other as they were growing up?
: Do you know?
: No.
: No.
: No.
: They did-- they did not live far apart.
: But they never met.
: They were introduced by relatives.
: And what did your father and mother do in the town
: that you were born in?
: My father was bound for Cincinnati in 1885
: because he had read-- my maiden name is Feibelman.
: Feibelman.
: My father's family had relatives in Cincinnati.
: So he was bound to come to Cincinnati for a year
: to look around in America.
: And then his father died.
: And he had to take over the business, which was tobacco.
: Tobacco.
: There is a lot of tobacco growing.
: But he also-- my grandfather--
: left a very nice amount of money.
: So he was able to go to Holland and import foreign tobaccos.
: And he started a tobacco business in Landau,
: where we lived.
: And then he got married to my mother,
: who was also from a pretty well-to-do family.
: So we were people of means.
: I don't say that we were really wealthy.
: But we were--
: Did your--
: --circumstances.
: Did your father ever visit the Feibelbaums?
: No.
: Feibelman.
: Feibelman, excuse me.
: And those Feibelmans moved from here to New Orleans
: and changed their name to Feldman.
: And one of the daughters of the Feldman family
: married a Rabbi Julian Feibelman,
: who is also related to my father, in New Orleans.
: This Miss Feldman, whose former name was Feibelman,
: married Rabbi Feibelman.
: And he's still living.
: So in 1885, your father was going to come here,
: but he was unable to.
: But he didn't.
: OK.
: And your father continued in the tobacco business.
: Yes.
: And he was able to import tobacco also from Holland.
: Yeah.
: OK.
: I'm interested in hearing some of what school
: was like, how much schooling that you
: got in Germany in Landau.
: I went to a very fine private--
: they call it lyceum now.
: In my days it was called Töchterschule.
: It means girls school, very fine private girls school.
: And I graduated.
: And after graduation, I went to the Conservatorium of Music
: in Neustadt, which is a neighbor town, and also to Mannheim.
: When you went to Neustadt, did you-- did you live in Neustadt?
: No, no, no, no, no.
: It's close enough--
: Close enough, you can live at home.
: I could come home by train, go by train
: and come home the same day.
: It was only half an hour's ride by train.
: And that was a music conservatory.
: A very good conservatory.
: About when are we talking about?
: What years were those?
: I graduated in 1919.
: And--
: From the lyceum?
: From lyceum, yeah.
: And right afterwards I went to the conservatorium three days
: a week.
: And the other days I had private lessons in English and French.
: And I spoke perfect French because this part of Germany
: where we lived was occupied by the French army.
: So every child in my home town could speak French.
: Every street sign, every name, everything was in French.
: And you learned English also?
: Yeah.
: At that time?
: Yeah.
: And--
: I got private lessons after school.
: My father said, it's silly to send you to boarding school.
: You don't learn much, but how to put on makeup and so on.
: I rather send you to a fine English teacher
: and to find a French teacher and also to the school of music.
: And after the school of music in Neustadt, did you go--
: I went-- I met--
: I married my husband.
: OK.
: And he was from my hometown, too.
: And his father was a very prominent sugar dealer.
: And, you know, in this part where we lived in Landau,
: there was also wine growing, but only very cheap sour wine.
: And they had to use--
: the farmers had to use sugar to make it drinkable.
: Otherwise, you couldn't drink it.
: So my father-in-law was a big sugar dealer.
: And after my husband grew up, he went into business
: with his father.
: And they took in all wholesale groceries
: and mainly roasting of coffee.
: And we sold the coffee to all the hotels and cafes in Europe.
: They have cafes where they go in the afternoon
: and have coffee and cake.
: In Mannheim, Heidelberg, Baden-Baden,
: all the cities surrounding us bought coffee,
: so hotels and restaurants bought coffee from us.
: So you were married in what year was this?
: In Landau.
: In Landau.
: In '25.
: In 1925.
: And you worked with your husband in the business?
: No.
: OK, when you say we, you meant his business then?
: Yes.
: And he sold to cities all around then?
: We had trucks, you know, trucks running.
: And we had salesmen on the road.
: And they visited all the smaller grocery stores in smaller towns.
: And then our trucks delivered the goods, the groceries,
: to those stores until the Hitler propaganda
: ruined everything for us.
: And you worked--
: I mean, your husband worked.
: And what mainly did you do during the day?
: What were--
: What I did?
: Mhm.
: After two years, I had a baby.
: I took care of my baby.
: And we had a beautiful garden.
: I used-- I worked in the garden.
: And in Europe in those days, the housewife did a lot of canning,
: you know, the fruit from the garden, tried
: to preserve with my maids.
: And I went to concerts.
: Like this Firkusny, who was here last Saturday,
: I heard him in my hometown 40 years ago.
: I went to concerts.
: I went to lectures.
: I had a nice life like people live if they can afford it.
: I didn't have to work.
: I had maids.
: Did your husband's business ever sell any of your canned goods?
: No.
: [LAUGHING]
: That was just for your own use.
: Yeah.
: To what extent were you-- would you--
: was your religious-- or your Jewish involvements
: at that time?
: Oh, yes.
: We were conservative.
: Conservative.
: Not Orthodox or not-- we didn't know anything
: about Reformed Judaism.
: OK.
: We only knew about Conservative.
: We kept the holidays.
: And the men wore a high hat to go to temple.
: And the women were sitting on the second floor.
: And the men were downstairs.
: OK.
: Did you observe any kosher--
: No.
: My grandparents and my parents did.
: But I didn't.
: No.
: But you didn't.
: No.
: And did you know your husband any time
: before you were married?
: We were children.
: You were children.
: So you grew up together.
: His nursemaid and my nursemaid pushed the buggies around
: in the same park.
: Oh, really?
: Yeah.
: So you were about the same age.
: You were very close.
: Yeah, about the same age.
: Very close.
: You mentioned that at the time that your father passed--
: that your father passed away that the church bells were--
: Not my father.
: That's your grandfather's, OK.
: That's your mother's father.
: No, my father's father.
: Your father's father.
: OK.
: That gives me some thought about his respect
: among the overall community, Jewish and non-Jewish.
: And he lived in a small town.
: And in this small town was no Jewish service.
: So for the holidays--
: he had a brother who always lived in this small town
: and a cousin.
: And for the holidays, they had to go to the neighbor town,
: which was called Wolfsheim.
: Wolfsheim.
: Wolfsheim, where a tremendous amount of Jews lived.
: And all Jews with the name of Feibelman
: originated in this little place, Wolfsheim, all over the world,
: in Cincinnati, in Africa, in England, in Brazil,
: in New Orleans, and in Los Angeles.
: I looked through the telephone book.
: I called a Feibelman.
: Yes?
: Did you know my father, Sigmund Feibelman?
: Of course, I went to school with him.
: All over the world, if I call a Feibelman,
: he originates in Wolfsheim.
: Through school, Mrs. Wolf, you were in school always
: with Jews and non-Jews?
: Mostly with Gentiles.
: Mostly with Gentiles.
: In my class were also Jewish girls, but mostly Gentiles.
: There was no difference.
: We were intimate friends.
: And that was in the music conservatory also?
: Also.
: OK.
: And how long were you able to remain friends
: with your Gentile friends.
: I tell you, they write to me today.
: They invite me to come.
: They had a jubilee in the lyceum.
: I was supposed to come.
: I said, I don't come.
: And you know why, I wrote back.
: And I was operating--
: I had an appendectomy.
: And this one Gentile friend came to the hospital
: January '33, bought me a big bunch of roses.
: March '33, she met me in the main street.
: She says like this.
: She nodded her head.
: Nodded her head.
: But she didn't stop.
: She didn't talk to me anymore.
: This was the day Adolf Hitler came to power.
: So she-- I found out she was a leader
: of the National Socialistic Youth School in my hometown,
: so she couldn't talk to me anymore.
: The Führer didn't want it.
: And now, they send me greetings and cards all the time
: when they have a get together.
: They remember me.
: And some, I write back because some I knew they were no Nazis
: and in their hearts they were never Nazis.
: One was a poor girl, and she had to have a job with the city.
: And if you work for the city, you had to be a Nazi.
: So I forgive her.
: And I sent her something for Christmas because she's poor.
: The woman who had given you flowers in January of 1933
: and would not speak to you on the street in March of 1933,
: she continues to-- she continued to write you?
: No.
: No.
: She is too proud.
: She knows I would throw it in the wastepaper basket.
: What other remembrances do you have
: of that period around 1933 between Jews and non-Jews,
: between Jews and Gentiles?
: This wine farm of my grandparents
: employed many farmhands.
: And among those farmhands was one man.
: This one man, my mother later on had to move away
: from my hometown to Frankfurt.
: He went with a bushel basket of food
: every few weeks by train to Frankfurt,
: which is far to bring food to my mother.
: This man just died not long ago.
: And I wrote back to his wife, your husband
: certainly deserves a seat in heaven
: what he did for my mother.
: How long did he do that, Mrs. Wolf?
: He did this about two years, until my--
: then my son, who is a doctor in Houston,
: he went back to Germany.
: And he visited this man.
: And then the man told him he came with a basket full of food
: again.
: When the janitor told him, you can go home,
: the lady isn't here anymore.
: They shipped her away.
: We don't know where.
: What were the circumstances leading up to your leaving
: Germany, for you personally?
: Were there--
: I tell you why.
: OK.
: We had this very good business in Landau,
: which was a big business, known all over this part
: of the country, the company.
: But there was a Nazi paper, before Hitler
: came to power already, a Nazi paper, which was conducted by--
: now what was his name?
: This-- Streicher, very great antisemite.
: And every week they brought something--
: don't buy from the Jew Wolf.
: The Jew Wolf is cheating you.
: Whatever you buy is cheap merchandise.
: Don't go to this store.
: And in small towns, the people knew each other.
: And they were scared to go in the Wolf store.
: You know, there was a big sign, Wolf, on the door,
: like here Kroger.
: Only we were not as big as Kroger.
: We were smaller, but also for German circumstances very nice
: size.
: And so our business went down and down and down.
: We had 125 employees to pay.
: And we didn't do good in business anymore.
: We couldn't pay them anymore.
: So we had to give up the business.
: When was this, Mrs. Wolf?
: 1931, before Hitler came to power.
: Before he came to power, those Nazis in my home state
: started to dig already, to oppress the people.
: They had one time--
: it was-- this paper was called Eisenhammer, which means iron
: hammer, to hammer, you know?
: Yes.
: One paper had my father-in-law, Wolf.
: They had a Wolf.
: And he always wore his glasses like this.
: So they had a wolf with a hat on like my father-in-law had
: and the eye glasses like this.
: And it said, wait, pretty soon Wolf
: will look out of your house.
: You don't understand what this means?
: Yes.
: The wolf will take over your house
: and he will have your house.
: The wolf will take over your house
: because you don't pay him enough.
: So he's going to auction your house.
: And the wolf will look out of your house.
: Yes.
: So they threatened and frightened the people with this.
: And we couldn't keep it up in a small town
: where everyone knew each other.
: And my husband accepted a job in Stuttgart, which was a big city
: and was a very good city for the Jews
: because the mayor was a Nazi outside,
: but inside he had a good heart and he was not a Nazi.
: He was involved with his attentat on Hitler,
: and he was a friend of Rommel, this Rommel affair,
: and he was a non Nazi.
: So the Jews didn't have to suffer
: for a long time in Stuttgart.
: In Stuttgart.
: He was-- the mayor of the city was publicly a Nazi.
: Publicly.
: He had to be publicly, yes.
: But he tried to protect Jews as much as he could.
: We had very little signs on restaurants or movies--
: no Jews permitted.
: But they had those signs in other cities a year ago already.
: What year was this, Mrs. Wolf?
: When we moved to Stuttgart in 1931.
: And my parents-in-law moved to Berlin away from Landau,
: because Berlin, the Jews didn't have to suffer in the beginning
: either.
: And my husband's brother, that's my parents-in-law's other son,
: was a patent lawyer with Allgemeine
: Elektricitats-Gesellschaft That's just
: like General Electric here.
: He had a very fine job and was a brilliant engineer.
: This was your brother-in-law?
: Brother-in-law.
: So after they were there some time, it got bad after '33.
: So in '34, his directors--
: his company belonged mostly to a very prominent Jew.
: You remember the name of--
: The electric company did?
: Yeah.
: But he-- I think they killed-- he was in politics,
: and they killed him.
: The Nazis killed him.
: I forgot the name.
: But some directors told my brother-in-law, Dr. Wolf,
: we advise you, resign.
: If you don't resign now.
: We have to fire you in a few months,
: you won't get any pension.
: If you go now, we can pay you a certain amount for reparations.
: And we can also get you a job as chief engineer
: with our company in Denmark.
: So he left and went to Denmark.
: This was in what year?
: '34.
: This was in 1934.
: And we were in Stuttgart.
: And my husband was a buyer of a department store for groceries.
: This was his line.
: And he did very well.
: And they had wonderful groceries and everything.
: But then when he got to '36, the propaganda
: got worse also in Stuttgart.
: And there was a law, Jewish stores couldn't get butter.
: Jewish grocery stores couldn't get flour, couldn't get oil.
: So-- he couldn't get eggs.
: So it was hard to run a big department in this department
: store with grapes and peaches and tomatoes.
: So my husband saw the writing on the wall.
: And I didn't want to leave.
: In 1936?
: Yeah.
: I said give him two more months.
: Then he will be overrun.
: So the mood--
: My husband said, you want to stay, stay.
: I take the boy, my son, and go to Denmark, to my brother.
: And I wait in Denmark for you to come.
: So I said, I didn't want to stay alone either.
: So thank God I left with him.
: But he couldn't stand it any longer
: because he was once arrested for half an hour only
: and brought to the jail.
: He wasn't mistreated.
: But he saw how they mistreated-- the SS men--
: how they mistreated Gentiles--
: not Jews-- Gentiles who said, isn't this a shame what
: they are doing with the Jew?
: Made remarks against the Nazis.
: So they beat them up.
: And he saw this.
: And when he saw, from this moment on,
: I couldn't do anything with him.
: He wanted to leave.
: And he had a sister in Brazil.
: But I didn't want to go to Brazil.
: I didn't like the country.
: I didn't know it.
: But I thought this country had so many revolutions.
: And it's a wild country.
: That's not for me.
: Yes.
: And we had relatives in America.
: And those relatives visited.
: They were rich people.
: And they came to Europe every year in summer for a vacation.
: So they visited us.
: And they saw us.
: And they knew we wouldn't take advantage of them.
: So my mother wrote to them and begged to give us an affidavit.
: And finally, they gave us an affidavit.
: And the moment we had the paper, my husband
: was the first one in the morning to go to the consulate
: to get the papers arranged and sent to the shipping company
: to get the--
: Passage?
: Passage.
: And we left.
: This was in 1936?
: '7.
: 1937.
: Yes.
: You left in--
: '36 we started preparing.
: In 1936, you started preparing.
: Yeah.
: That takes the time.
: Yes.
: You have to have all kinds of papers.
: Another thing I have to tell you.
: Yes.
: We were scared.
: Before the Nazis came to power in the city where I lived,
: there was a French occupation army.
: So they couldn't do anything.
: The French would have shot them.
: They could not do anything until the French moved out in 1930.
: And--
: The French were there until 1930--
: Yeah, occupy--
: In Landau.
: Occupying Landau and the whole left side of the Rhine.
: So after this, I looked out of the window.
: Here comes a young man with a Nazi flag.
: That's the first time I saw this.
: I was stunned.
: I knew the swastika.
: And when I saw this, I thought, somebody
: is giving me a cut in my heart.
: This was 1930?
: Yeah, that I saw it the first time.
: And I called my husband.
: And when he saw this, he was full of rage.
: He ran down, took the flag from the boys arm and broke it.
: This was a crime now.
: The Nazi party had at night, on this evening,
: in front of our house speeches, you know, give us a flag.
: Give us our flag.
: Give us our flag.
: And my husband locked it in the safe.
: Didn't give it up.
: He wanted to fight Nazism.
: Nebbish.
: So then the Nazi party sued my husband for street robbery.
: My husband was sued for 500 mark for street--
: to be a street robber.
: Do you understand that?
: Yes.
: Yes.
: But what we needed when we left, we needed--
: I don't know the word, but you have--
: A release or something?
: No, no.
: You have to have a report from your hometown
: that you never had anything to do with the law.
: So my husband was punished for a street robbery.
: I said, we never get the visa to go to America.
: They don't want a street robber.
: Right.
: But he must have had a friend at the courthouse
: where those papers were.
: And the statement came that Mr. Hans Wolf never had
: anything to do with the law.
: Now, the relatives who--
: Here.
: --in America who gave the affidavit for you,
: at the time you were in Stuttgart--
: Yes.
: --was your mother in Stuttgart?
: No.
: My mother was still in Landau.
: She was still in Landau.
: We could not take my mother along because we had no money,
: and we had no job.
: And my mother had vineyards, you know,
: from the wine farm of her parents.
: And we thought they leave a widow alone.
: And she had a nice income to live alone
: until we could be settled here we wanted to let her come, too.
: At what point did she go to Frankfurt?
: She went to Frankfurt because she had to leave Landau.
: All the Jews had to leave Landau because they
: thought it was too close to the battlefield in the Second World
: War.
: And the Jews could be spies against Germany.
: So they shipped part of them to Le Gurs in France to camps.
: And some others, like my mother, went to Frankfurt
: and lived in her own apartment in Frankfurt.
: What year was that that she went to Frankfurt?
: The war broke out '40.
: OK.
: And in '42, she was deported from Frankfurt.
: And I never heard from her again.
: I don't know what happened.
: 1937 is when you left--
: Yeah.
: --to come to the United States.
: Yeah.
: Did your husband ever go to Denmark at all
: to see his brother.
: No.
: No.
: OK.
: When you left Germany for the United states,
: did you know where you were going to be going.
: Yeah, certainly.
: Our relatives were so kind and so good.
: And I want you to--
: oh--
: It'll be here.
: They were so kind and so good and I
: want it to be known that Mr and Mrs. Max Strauss, formerly
: Hamilton, but they lived in Cincinnati, asked us
: when we still were in Germany, not to stay in New York,
: to come to Cincinnati.
: They could help us more.
: We would be much more at home in a smaller town.
: And we would like it so much better
: to be under their protection.
: And they really protected us.
: They were kind and good and wonderful to us.
: That's nice.
: Not that they had to help us with money.
: We didn't need any money.
: My husband took a job as a porter.
: Do you know what a porter is?
: Yes.
: He had--
: Hand laborer.
: In a grocery, he was in the grocery business,
: so he was here the porter in a grocery store for $17.50.
: But my husband's English wasn't good,
: so he could not be president of the First National Bank.
: So he was a nebbish porter.
: When you came from Germany, did you stop in New York at all?
: Yeah, we stopped in New York.
: And you were processed--
: We had relatives in New York.
: Were they on your mother's-- from your mother's family also?
: Mother's and father's.
: Mother's and father's.
: Both families took us around in New York and showed us New York.
: But we didn't-- we were not interested.
: We had no money.
: And we didn't want to be treated.
: And we wanted to come to the end of our--
: You were anxious to get where you were going to live.
: We were sick from Ireland to New York Harbor.
: My husband and I both so seasick we couldn't move.
: Our son and another young boy had breakfast in the morning
: already, steak, baked potatoes and asparagus.
: And we-- for breakfast, he had this in the dining room.
: But we were lying in bed from Ireland to New York Harbor.
: How long a trip was it?
: It was in January, the most stormy trip
: that the boat ever had.
: So we were weak and worn out.
: And New York isn't a very restful place, is it--
: No.
: --to come to.
: How long did you stay in New York, Mrs. Wolf?
: At the time?
: Yes.
: I think three days.
: Oh, just three days.
: And then how did you get to--
: They picked us up here, my relatives.
: Yes, the Strausses.
: The Strausses called us in New York
: and told us they would wait for us at the Winton Place station.
: And somebody from my hometown told me--
: she was in Cincinnati--
: and Cincinnati has the most beautiful railroad station
: she ever saw in all her life.
: When we arrived here, I say to my husband,
: what a liar Alice is to tell me the railroad
: station is so beautiful.
: Yeah.
: And then they picked us up and took us home and had
: a beautiful home on Rose Hill.
: And they had a little dog, which made us feel at home, and trees.
: And I thought America is all factories
: and high-rise buildings, no trees and no flowers.
: Yeah.
: So they already had moved from Hamilton to Cincinnati.
: Yeah, a few years before.
: And had they had they arranged a position for your husband?
: Just to be a porter.
: To be a porter.
: How long--
: Which was-- this was a mistake.
: This Mr. Strauss, who was a very kind, good man,
: and he wanted to give us money every month so we could live.
: But my husband didn't accept it.
: He said he rather would be a porter
: than accept money from somebody.
: But he should have stayed home three, four months not doing
: anything but learning English.
: So he had to carry those heavy sacks and those heavy boxes
: with sugar and bottles and cans.
: He wasn't used to heavy work.
: He was in his office all day long in Germany.
: Where did he work, Mrs. Wolf?
: The name was Lowenstein.
: It was a very fine grocery store on Reading Road
: before you came here.
: Yes.
: Very good place.
: And the man was very good to him and treated him nicely.
: But he couldn't pay him more than he would pay a colored man.
: The colored man got $17.50.
: So my husband got $17.50 too.
: But after a while he couldn't take it anymore.
: He got so depressed because he had to carry the grocery
: boxes to the ladies' car.
: Yes.
: And they wanted to give him $0.20, you know.
: And sometimes we were invited to parties
: for my rich relatives' friends.
: And there were the ladies he carried the boxes
: in in the morning.
: It was very hard for him.
: It depressed him so.
: And one night he came home, he said, Henny,
: I can't stand it anymore.
: Do you want me to have a nervous breakdown?
: I said, no, but $17.50 we could live on in those days.
: You could live nicely on $17.50.
: Yeah, but I worked too.
: I took up in Germany massaging.
: Massaging.
: Massaging.
: And I gave massage treatments, but no massage parlor
: treatments, you know.
: No.
: I worked with doctors.
: And they sent me to their patients.
: And I walked from house to house.
: And I made nicely.
: After a little while, I made nice money
: so I could pay the rent, which was cheap too,
: and could pay for the house what we needed.
: We brought clothes and everything along.
: We only needed food.
: And food was very cheap in those days.
: You were able to bring your clothes?
: Everything.
: And furniture also?
: Everything.
: We brought beautiful antique furniture from--
: From Germany.
: Everything, my silver, my linen, everything.
: But after a while, those furniture
: cracked from the heat and the humidity.
: Yes.
: So we auctioned it off.
: And we got nice money.
: And we bought those furniture.
: But we should have kept them and have
: them refinished because they would be so valuable today.
: They were authentic antiques.
: The Strausses then, your relatives,
: helped set you up with a place to live.
: Where did you live first?
: Wait a moment.
: They had a rent--
: a furnished apartment rented for us on Reading Road.
: And they lived on Rose Hill near Reading Road.
: So they took the boy.
: They were kind enough to take the boy.
: As long as you have no apartment and your furniture are not here,
: you live in this furnished apartment.
: But the boy should have a good home with us.
: And he was with them.
: Very nice.
: I cannot say enough about the kindness of those people.
: And I am only, only so sorry that they had not much luck.
: They had one adopted daughter who married, didn't marry well.
: She died young and left four young daughters.
: And Mr. Strauss died of old age.
: But my cousin, Mrs. Strauss, is so senile,
: so completely senile at Glen Manor that I cannot even go
: to see her.
: It upsets me so.
: She doesn't know where she is coming and going,
: blind and deaf and senile.
: And I would like to do something for her, but I can't.
: When you came then, they had already established
: a furnished apartment for you?
: Yeah.
: How long after you arrived did your furnishings arrive?
: I can't-- I think on the 1st of February.
: Oh, very soon after you got here.
: You know how the furniture come.
: It's called a lift.
: It is nearly as big as a railroad car.
: And it's lifted with a crane into a railroad car
: and from the railroad car onto the ship.
: And said we could pay transportation.
: We had money in Germany.
: We couldn't take it along.
: So we paid plenty to have every comfort here.
: Paid house Stuttgart delivered to house Cincinnati.
: We could pay in Germany with German mark.
: But you weren't allowed to take money out with you?
: Not a penny.
: Not--
: But you could take your furnishings.
: We could take our furnishings, the jewelry, and the silver
: we owned.
: Yes.
: And we-- there was a certain transfer that people with one
: child--
: with small children could make with the permission
: of the German Nazi government.
: And we could make this transfer.
: We were the only ones I think of all our friends
: who were lucky enough to be able to do this.
: It was only a short time permitted.
: This very fine banker in Hamburg--
: I forgot his name.
: This banker, a Jewish banker, vouched for it,
: that everything went smooth and was nothing crooked.
: And when we were here, after about four weeks,
: we got some money paid out from the bank, which
: came from Hamburg.
: You had to have so and so much money.
: And half of it went to the German government.
: And the other half you could transfer.
: So when we came, we had about $2,000,
: which was a fortune in comparison to the other Jews.
: So in 1937, there was still a Jewish banker in Stuttgart?
: Not in Stuttgart.
: He was--
: In Hamburg.
: It was a famous bank.
: I'm sure the bank is still there today.
: That's new to me.
: Yeah.
: We arrived in '38.
: We left '37 on Christmas, arrived '38.
: Let me get my dates again.
: Then you left at the end of 1937 and you arrived January of 1938.
: Yeah.
: OK.
: And then my husband said he couldn't take it anymore.
: It made him too sick.
: He wants to stop working at Mr. Lowenstein.
: Even so--
: [AUDIO OUT]
: [? --Edible. ?] Not the kindness,
: but that he should have-- we had storerooms full of chocolate
: in Landau in our business.
: And now he should be a poor schnorrer
: and should take a little piece of chocolate for his boy.
: He cried all evening.
: And I thought, if you feel like this,
: I don't want you to get sick.
: Do whatever you want to.
: He said he wanted to start the coffee
: business, like he had in Germany,
: for hotels and restaurants.
: But he needs this little money we brought over.
: He needs his money to buy a car first.
: And I said, my God, the last penny we have,
: and you want to buy a car?
: And then you lose, and we lose everything.
: I cried-- then I cried.
: Yes.
: But he did it anyhow.
: And he was a good businessman.
: He had a business head.
: And he started very little.
: First, he didn't make anything.
: He lost.
: But then people were kind to him and gave him a chance.
: And he built up a little business.
: So he first--
: Made a nice living.
: Yes.
: And then after five years, I could stop with massaging.
: He made enough to support us.
: And I got sick.
: I had to have a spine operation.
: Massaging is hard work.
: Yes.
: And he did nicely.
: And then he got a heart attack.
: What year was that?
: '53.
: 1953.
: But he recuperated.
: And he could-- after some time, he could go on.
: I took care of the business while he was in the hospital.
: And then I had a man.
: I had a man to drive me.
: And then after he recuperated, he had this man going with him.
: And he could go on for 17 years after the heart attack.
: And then-- but he passed away.
: OK.
: He worked for the Lowenstein's for less than a year.
: Yeah.
: It wasn't very long.
: s couldn't stand it.
: Then he established his own business.
: Yeah.
: He worked for Lowenstein.
: Lowenstein himself worked very hard and started at 4:30
: in the morning.
: He picked my husband up to go to the wholesale market
: to buy the vegetables and fruit.
: And my husband sometimes didn't come home before 7 o'clock.
: And this would make anybody nervous.
: Especially someone who wasn't used to working that way.
: Yeah.
: So hours and all day long carrying things.
: And then my husband had an uncle in Landau whose wife
: was born here in Cincinnati.
: She was a daughter of Professor Zurndorfer at Hebrew Union
: College.
: Zurndorfer?
: Yeah.
: And after Zurndorfer died, his wife
: went back to Germany with her little girl.
: And this little girl grew up and married my husband's uncle.
: And one day he carried a lady's groceries home with her.
: And she asked him, where do you come from?
: He said, Landau, Germany.
: Oh, my girlfriend lives in Landau.
: She married a Mr. Marx in Landau.
: And then Al said, that's my uncle.
: Come up with me, I show you the pictures.
: She had all the pictures of my husband's family.
: And this upset him, too.
: Yes.
: And then he started.
: And America was good to us, thank God.
: Did you have any--
: did you make use of any of the Jewish social agencies
: at the time when you came.
: No.
: No.
: You had no contact.
: You didn't need the contact.
: I didn't need it.
: My husband had the fine job for $17.50.
: He didn't need the agency.
: And I gave massage treatments.
: My relatives introduced me to doctors,
: and the doctors introduced me to their patients.
: And one lady recommended me to the other one.
: And so I had more than I could take care of.
: I wanted to ask you a question about something
: that happened previous to that.
: When you said you had your appendectomy--
: Yeah.
: --in Germany.
: This was in Landau?
: Yeah.
: And this was 19--
: '31.
: '31.
: Were there any-- did you feel any problems
: because of the Nazis--
: No.
: --and your surgery in 31?
: No.
: OK.
: That was a little out of context,
: but it was a question that I still had that I wanted to ask.
: I'm surprised how you can remember all this
: and how clever your questions are.
: Well, thank you very much.
: What business are you, may I ask?
: We can talk a little bit after the interview.
: That's OK.
: I can continue with that.
: OK, Mrs. Wolf, I wanted to ask you
: a little bit about how you became friendly
: with other people or how you rebuilt your life in Cincinnati.
: How I became friendly with other people?
: Or what--
: In the beginning--
: Who became your friends?
: --the agency here arranged some get-together parties.
: So we met some other Germans.
: They came from Düsseldorf and from Berlin.
: Ah, you know, if you are from Düsseldorf,
: you know my cousin Mrs. Cohen in Düsseldorf
: or my cousin Mr. Meyer in Berlin?
: So this way we became friendly at this get-together parties.
: Or we lived mostly in Avondale.
: So we met them at [? belqas, ?] and we met them in temple.
: And that's the way we became--
: What agency was that that set that up?
: The Jewish Agency.
: The Jewish Agency.
: Yeah.
: They gave get-together parties to make the people acquainted
: with each other.
: Yes.
: s that was a big help in getting--
: Yeah, yeah.
: --in getting to meet some new people?
: Yeah.
: Have some of those people remained--
: Yeah.
: I'm still friendly with the same people for 40 years
: and also with those people I massaged 40 years ago.
: Oh, OK.
: So you also--
: Most of them died.
: But you also become--
: you became friendly with your clients?
: Most of my friends today are born Americans.
: OK.
: And you remained living in the Avondale area most of the time?
: Yeah.
: And did you find that your friends that you made
: lived nearby or lived near you?
: Yeah.
: Did any of your friends live further away?
: Yeah, they moved to Bond Hill and Roselawn.
: What's the furthest away that you made friends here?
: What?
: The furthest away from where you lived?
: Amberley.
: Amberley.
: [INAUDIBLE]
: So you're-- those parties that the Jewish Agency set up were
: very good.
: Did you attend those alone or with your husband?
: Certainly with my husband.
: With your husband.
: And was that after he was working at Lowenstein's?
: Yeah.
: And while he was working at Lowenstein's.
: And while.
: He always said, I'm glad that I can wear a decent suit
: if people say I have clothes.
: He went in a shirt, in an old shirt and old pants to work.
: First, before our furniture came,
: you know, we had only good clothes with us
: in our suitcases.
: And when he started at the grocery store,
: he went with a good tailor-made suit and diamond cuff links
: to work in Lisa Lowenstein's grocery.
: And of course, he lost one cuff link.
: He never could get over this.
: Did you have to take any extra courses at all to do--
: Here?
: Yes.
: No.
: No.
: And did you ever attend any kind of schooling
: in the United States?
: No.
: No, you didn't.
: Yes, I had to take the citizenship class--
: Oh, yes.
: --to become an American citizen.
: And I gave the speech--
: how do you call this?
: At the graduation?
: At the graduation speech.
: Oh, you did?
: Yeah.
: And your English training you had in Germany
: was very helpful for you.
: Yeah.
: Did you find it enjoyable at all to speak English when
: you got to the United States?
: No, it was very hard for me to pronounce the T-H.
: The T-H's are terrible for an European and also
: the V's and W's.
: V, I think I still can do it right.
: You said it right.
: T-H is very--
: Yes.
: T-H, the way you pronounce it, people in Europe
: think you have an impediment.
: Oh.
: Like thith.
: In school already.
: I hated English because of the T-H.
: In what areas did you begin to participate in Cincinnati?
: Did you join any organizations?
: Or did you join any temples?
: Or shuls?
: I joined after-- first, we went every Friday night
: to listen to Rabbi Heller, who was a brilliant speaker.
: He spoke so, we were just delighted.
: He spoke like we would imagine Goethe or Schiller spoke.
: He spoke in--
: So marvelous.
: In English.
: In English, yes.
: So we couldn't afford to join.
: And our boy went to the confirmation class there.
: This was at which temple?
: Wise Temple.
: At Wise Temple.
: But we said as soon as we can afford it, we join your temple.
: And that's what we did.
: As soon as my husband made enough, then
: we joined the temple.
: I joined the sisterhood.
: And he joined the brotherhood.
: And was this the same temple that your relatives belonged to?
: No, belong to Rockdale.
: OK, I'm just--
: We lived near Wise Temple.
: OK.
: And we enjoyed Rabbi Heller so much
: that we said we have to join that this temple where
: our son was in confirmation class
: and where we always we heard this speak.
: He was a most elegant speaker you could hear.
: Rabbi Heller?
: Yeah.
: He was not-- the way he spoke, he was double-faced.
: Afterwards, I heard this.
: I thought he was good, he spoke so beautiful.
: But he was not so the way he spoke.
: Did your relatives take you to Rockdale Temple first?
: Or did you ever go to the other temples?
: Yeah, they took us to Rockdale Temple too.
: Yes.
: We went to Rockdale.
: We went to Wise.
: But we liked Heller.
: Yes.
: We didn't know that he was double-faced.
: OK.
: And he should never have been a rabbi.
: Well, you belong to the sisterhood and to the temple--
: to Wise Temple.
: Yeah.
: And you're still a member of Wise Temple?
: Yes.
: And what other kinds of organizations?
: Hadassah.
: Hadassah.
: Jewish Care and Relief, but doesn't exist anymore.
: And I belong also to the American Israeli Foundation.
: They bring musicians over.
: It's a cultural foundation?
: Wonderful.
: Yes.
: The Relief Foundation was that-- did you do work there at all?
: Is that a volunteer organization?
: Yeah, it was--
: I joined.
: You joined.
: Yeah.
: OK.
: What thoughts do you have today about Israel as a state?
: Poor Israel, I'm afraid it cannot exist.
: That's my opinion.
: OK.
: Surrounded by enemies, you cannot exist.
: They will take the life away, the air.
: You mentioned--
: I am-- don't misunderstand me.
: I am for Israel.
: But I'm afraid they cannot exist.
: I would like to give lots of money
: if I had it to help Israel.
: I'm proud what they did.
: But what do you think?
: Do you think they can exist with the Russians now after the oil?
: Did you read the paper today?
: America wants to send 1,000 men in the Sinai.
: Do you know why?
: Not to help the Jews.
: To have the oil?
: Yes.
: The Russians will get the oil in Israel.
: They will get everything they wanted.
: Mrs. Wolf, you mentioned that many
: of the people you met who were from Germany
: 40 years ago are still your friends.
: Yeah.
: How do you see the contribution that the people
: of your generation from Germany have made?
: As you look back, you might not think right away,
: but as you look back--
: They made a contribution.
: Some are fine doctors.
: Some are very fine businessmen.
: Most of them died.
: My friends are mostly widows now.
: Their husbands died with my husband.
: They were all good businessmen.
: And as I told you, doctors.
: And they raise the children.
: Some of those German refugee children
: were outstanding in schools here.
: Some are-- I have some in mind, two brothers.
: One is with Westinghouse, a physicist.
: And another one is a famous physicist in California
: and does work for the government,
: secret work with those--
: with NASA and all this.
: Yes.
: Brilliant, people.
: Brilliant boys.
: So the immigrants and the sons--
: The children of the immigrants did very well here.
: Done very well here.
: Yeah.
: And my friends-- of course, some are stupid, some are dumb, too.
: Sure.
: They never amount to much.
: But most of them had good schooling
: and had excellent grades and amounted to something.
: I would imagine with your background and interest in music
: that you found Cincinnati to be a good place for music.
: A wonderful city.
: I love it.
: I would have a chance since my husband passed away
: to move to Houston, where my son is.
: I think I would never like to live
: in Houston after I lived here.
: Cincinnati is so much like Stuttgart, where I lived,
: cultural, scenic.
: The beauty of the scenery here is just the same as Stuttgart.
: The river and the hills and the downtown,
: the old downtown, and the symphony and the art museums
: are outstanding here, both museums.
: And you enjoy listening to the music
: and seeing the museums when you can?
: Oh, did you listen last night?
: No, I didn't.
: And the night before?
: What are you doing--
: are you interviewing every night.
: No, I'm not.
: But I wasn't listening last night.
: And tonight, before it was even better.
: Perlman, Heifetz, Marilyn Horne.
: It was the most beautiful concert
: I heard in a long time and last night, too, on 48.
: So it sounds as if Cincinnati has
: been a wonderful place for you.
: I love Cincinnati.
: It also--
: It was a wonderful place for us.
: Even my husband only had a little business,
: but it supported us.
: And he was happy.
: And you choose to stay in Cincinnati
: rather than move to where your son is.
: I think that's a real good statement for how you feel.
: Yeah.
: Houston is a different country.
: Cincinnati and Houston, Texas is a different country.
: Yes.
: And the Texans are different, too.
: They're nice and very hospitable, but different.
: I wanted to ask you a question that has just come to my mind.
: After your husband started his business--
: Yeah.
: --his own business here, how were things different,
: having a business in the United States and having a business
: as he had in Germany?
: Either as a Jew in business, was it different
: being a Jew in business here?
: No.
: He always said one thing was different.
: In Germany, he had many customers that wouldn't pay him
: or failed in business.
: Here, he had only one customer.
: He lost a very small amount of money.
: People didn't cheat him here.
: He told me this many times that he is surprised
: how honest the American business people are.
: Did he feel that people in Germany who didn't pay him
: didn't pay because they couldn't pay, or did--
: Some tried to cheat him he thought.
: That's real interesting.
: That's something different than I
: would have than I would have guessed,
: or I would have thought of.
: Yeah.
: I sometimes in the afternoon went downtown to big stores.
: They had beautiful shops in Stuttgart.
: So I always send my dress-- my little boy
: and cleaned him up and said, you wait downstairs.
: And then I put my head on make-up on.
: And then he was standing there waiting for me
: and I said, Come, Lieber, which means come, dear.
: And I had him in my hands.
: And we walked.
: And I heard some.
: Steps behind me, [BANGING], like this.
: I turned around, SS men with boots, black boots.
: And it made a terrible noise every step behind me.
: God, I was scared stiff.
: I thought, I'm going to be arrested.
: Followed me every step.
: I went first in a very fine silk store.
: I thought he wouldn't wait for me.
: He wouldn't come in.
: Like I wanted to buy ribbons.
: When I came out, there he was still standing.
: I went in another store.
: I was desperate.
: I thought any moment either he's shooting, killing me
: or arresting me.
: Then I went in a very big department store.
: I thought, there I'm sure he cannot kill me.
: And I might lose him.
: And then in this department store,
: I got courage because there were lots of people around me.
: I said, what do you want?
: Why do you follow me?
: He said, didn't you say, Come, Lieber?
: Come, dear?
: I said, you knew exactly that I meant this little boy.
: You know, he thought, I'm the nursemaid.
: I take the little boy out, and I want him to follow me.
: I want to have an affair with him.
: Oh, no.
: But then I was--
: after I told him this, I thought maybe he's going to hit me.
: I had to sit down in this department store.
: I was shaking all over that I had the courage
: to scream at him.

Overview

Interviewee: Henny Wohl
Date: interview: 1981 March 24

Physical Details

Language: English
Extent: 1 sound cassette (90 min.).

Rights & Restrictions

Conditions on Access: There are no known restrictions on access to this material. Museum staff are currently unable to copy, digitize, and/or photograph collection materials on behalf of researchers. Researchers are encouraged to plan a research visit to consult collection materials themselves.
Conditions on Use: No restrictions on use

Keywords & Subjects

Topical Term: Holocaust, Jewish (1939-1945)--Personal narratives. Holocaust survivors--United States.
Personal Name: Wohl, Henny.

Administrative Notes

Holder of Originals: American Jewish Archives
Legal Status: Permanent Collection
Provenance: The interview with Henny Wohl was conducted on March 24, 1981 for a joint project with the National Council of Jewish Women, Cincinnati Section and the American Jewish Archives of the Hebrew Union College - Jewish Institute of Religion entitled "Survivors of Hitler's Germany in Cincinnati: An Oral History." The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum acquired a copy of the interview in June 1990.
Funding Note: The creation and display of the time-coded transcript for this collection was completed with assistance from the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany, supported by the German Federal Ministry of Finance and the Foundation Remembrance, Responsibility and Future.
Special Collection: The Jeff and Toby Herr Oral History Archive