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Oral history interview with Isack Charney

Oral History | Digitized | Accession Number: 1993.A.0095.13 | RG Number: RG-50.163.0013

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    Oral history interview with Isack Charney
    Transcript
    My name is Katherine Rabinowitz.
    Today is January 20th, 1985.
    I am here to interview Isack Charney who
    is a survivor of the Nazi Holocaust.
    I am doing this under the auspices of the Oral History
    Project, Jewish Community Council of Greater Washington.
    The purpose of this interview is to add
    to the oral history of the Nazi Holocaust
    so that, through this living memorial,
    future generations will know what happened.
    With this knowledge, hopefully we
    can prevent any further such occurrence in the future.
    Please tell us your name and the city and country
    in which you were born.
    My name is Isack Charney.
    And I was born in Poland, Czestochowa.
    Could you describe those people who made up
    your household before the war?
    My parents.
    Did you have any sisters or brothers?
    I had one brother.
    I have one brother.
    Could you tell me about your family's social situation
    and your own educational background before the war?
    Well, I went to school.
    I was 18 years old when the Germans invaded Poland.
    And I didn't continue my education anymore.
    What--
    And when the Germans come in, you know,
    it was no more schools for Jewish people.
    What was your family's life like in your hometown?
    Well, my parents, my father used to have a meat market in Poland.
    My mother was a housewife, you know.
    Were you-- did you come from a religious family?
    Yeah.
    Yeah.
    I was very religious.
    The area that you grew up in, was it a city area
    or it was more of a farm area?
    No, it was a city area, yeah.
    Could you describe your contacts with non-Jews before the war?
    Well, I went to school together with the Polish people.
    Did you have any antisemitic experiences?
    Well, not-- no before the war.
    When the war broke out with the German, you know, we were--
    they were fighting all over.
    Then it was a little antisemitism in Poland.
    But before that, you really hadn't experienced anything.
    Before, we didn't.
    No, no.
    Well, they-- there was, sure, already antisemitism in Poland.
    Yeah.
    OK.
    As the prospect of the war became
    closer, what choices were open to you and your family?
    Did you ever consider leaving Poland?
    Well, not.
    You know, when the war broke out and the Germans already
    invade Poland, there was no way to get out of Poland.
    And at the time, you know, there was no reason to leave Poland--
    family and all over Poland.
    We didn't have any reason to get out of Poland.
    How old were you when the war broke out?
    I was 18 years old.
    How did you first learn about the war?
    Well, soon the Germans--
    well, we went to school.
    We will hear on the, you know, in papers
    and as the Germans approaching, you know, closer and closer
    to Poland.
    And I mean they invaded Friday.
    We saw planes, you know, flying all over Poland.
    And we didn't know what sort of planes they are.
    It's not like here.
    And Saturday morning, around 10 o'clock,
    you saw already Germans in Poland.
    They were so close on Friday.
    You know, Saturday was already Germans there.
    And then, you know, everybody, you know, got nervous, afraid.
    And then, you know, they were invaded and settled down all
    over Poland.
    Could you describe, maybe a little bit more,
    what your family life was like when the Germans first came in?
    Well, it wasn't good.
    It was no good for no Jewish people anymore.
    They already made a difference between a Jew and a Polish
    Christian.
    And what the Christian did, we couldn't do it.
    You have to go around.
    Already, ordered to carry a band, you know?
    What do you call it?
    The yellow armband?
    And we got armbands.
    No Jewish people went out without it.
    But if they caught him without it, it was goodbye.
    And you know, that was going on, going on for quite a few--
    quite some time-- for months.
    And afterwards, they, you know, made ghettos that all people
    from Poland, from surrounding towns, small towns.
    And they got them into the big city of Czestochowa.
    And over there, they made ghetto streets, like I say,
    a dozen streets or half a dozen streets.
    Then they get all the Jewish people in the streets.
    We used to go out, by permission,
    with the yellow bands.
    But then it was so bad, you couldn't get out on the streets
    anymore.
    And then they stopped all the--
    you know, what they were sending out people
    to concentration camps.
    About how long did it take, after the Germans invaded
    Poland, for them to set up the ghetto in your hometown?
    I would say about six, seven months.
    Could you describe what life was like, on a daily basis,
    for you in the ghetto?
    Well, they used to come in, in the morning,
    and they used to call out to the young folks to get out
    and took them to work, to factories.
    And we used to go to the factories with German guards,
    with the SS.
    And now we were working in factories,
    like a steel factory and other factories.
    And after the day was over, you know,
    they took us back to the ghettos.
    Where did you work?
    I worked in a steel factory.
    It's not far where I was born, about maybe six miles.
    There was a steel factory over there.
    Were you and your family able to stay together in the ghetto?
    Yeah.
    Yeah.
    Yeah.
    For the whole time?
    Well, yeah, for the whole time, till they give orders
    to everybody.
    You know, one day everybody have to go out
    from the shopping center.
    And one German, you know, with a cane, make the--
    he said to the--
    we passed him.
    And he made one here and one here.
    The people, the elderly people went right to the crematoriums,
    to Treblinka.
    And the young folks went to the [INAUDIBLE]
    to the concentration camps.
    Yeah, they took us on trains.
    Can I?
    How long were you in the ghetto?
    I would say about seven, eight months.
    Yeah, seven, eight months.
    OK.
    And then--
    And then, you know, like I say, they took us to--
    one to the left and one to the right.
    You know, the left was already trains to destroy them.
    And the other side was on the trains.
    They took us on trains and sent us to the concentration camp.
    For weeks, we went-- we was on the trains
    till we got to the concentration camps.
    Could you describe what it was like to be on the trains?
    Well, it was 100 people, 80 people on a cattle train.
    How could it be good?
    No water, no bread, no nothing for days.
    And when we got to the place, to the concentration camps,
    we went down.
    Most people didn't make it.
    And whoever made it, we went into the barracks.
    And whatever we had, clothes--
    we had to go in one room, take off all the clothes.
    We went in another room.
    It was showers.
    When we got to the showers, after we got to the showers,
    we got the striped suits.
    And that's, you know, we got set up to go to work every morning.
    And what camp were you in?
    Buchenwald.
    I was in Buchenwald, at least, I would say,
    about 3 and 1/2 years.
    And then, when the Allies approaching, you know,
    it was bad.
    They took us.
    They took us to Dora.
    Dora was a concentration camp.
    It was under the hills, tunnels, tunnels of miles and miles away.
    And that's what I used to make, the V-1 and V-2,
    the missiles what they were shooting at England.
    Can we go back to Buchenwald, please,
    and go into more detail about what it was like for you there.
    Yeah.
    Did your family-- did all of your family
    go with you to Buchenwald?
    No.
    No, only my brother.
    And your family?
    My brother was with me.
    My parents, they went right to the crematoriums.
    Could you describe what it was like in Buchenwald-- basically,
    a daily routine.
    Every day-- every day, in the morning,
    they made a-- what do you call it--
    an alarm, you know, just to get up in the morning.
    About what time was this?
    Oh, who knows the time?
    Sometimes it was 4 o'clock 5 o'clock.
    And they come in, the SS, and start yelling.
    And everybody was-- used to get up.
    We went out.
    It was cold.
    And, you know, they count the people.
    Now, we went to work in tunnels.
    It was not necessarily working but still
    we worked-- dig ditches.
    Digging ditches?
    Yeah.
    That were the main thing, digging ditches.
    And we unloaded trains when they used to come
    in the concentration camps.
    Is there-- can you describe any more of what
    happened to you in camp, what life was like for you,
    some of your thoughts about It?
    Well, we knew that one day we're not going to survive.
    But it was very bad.
    Every day, you know, the frost. [?
    And of course, ?] [? you go first,
    ?] we didn't get any clothes just the striped suit.
    And we didn't do too much work.
    We just-- you know, just keep us running around, that's all.
    How much food did you have to eat?
    Well, we had a little.
    I don't know.
    In the morning, we got a little coffee.
    And if you're lucky, you had a piece of bread.
    And when you got home, you had soup.
    Maybe you find two pieces of potato in the soup-- water.
    That was the daily.
    That's why people didn't survive.
    They were dying, every day, from hunger and starvation.
    Why do you think you survived?
    Well, I think I survived by luck.
    and other people, the same way, just
    had plain luck to survive this.
    Are there any particular experiences,
    you would like to talk about, that happened to you or some
    that you had seen?
    Well, we went to the Dora concentration camp.
    But after Dora, se went to Bergen-Belsen.
    That was the last thing.
    But in Dora, we used to--
    we used to-- you know, unload all,
    you know, equipment for the V-1 and V-2.
    You hear about the V-1, V-2, the missiles.
    It was everyday, routine going over there.
    And when the trains come in, we used to unload them,
    all the equipment.
    And the food was the same thing, every day.
    Every day, the same kind of little, just water or soup
    or something like this.
    But many days, we went without anything.
    We went without anything.
    Were you ever ill in any of the camps that you were in?
    Yes, I was ill.
    You know, that's the thing.
    I was plenty ill.
    Did you go to the hospitals?
    No.
    There was no hospitals.
    Not such a thing if you really went to the hospital.
    Were they--
    If you ill, you died, and they took you to crematoriums,
    and that's it.
    How did you survive your illnesses then?
    Well, like I say, I was a lucky person to do.
    I had a lot of-- a lot of, you know, scars on my mind, too
    And that's what I had.
    Was it through the aid of other people, of other inmates,
    in the camp with you, that you survived?
    Yeah, well, you know, we had a little-- what do you call it?
    We had a hope of maybe one day we will survive.
    If you wouldn't have any hope not to survive,
    you would give up.
    And I didn't dare.
    Do you know what any of the illnesses were that you had?
    Did you have typhoid or diphtheria or anything
    like that?
    Well, I had my lungs to do, which, today,
    I had very major surgery from this, what's happened
    in the concentration camps.
    And you never went to see a doctor or anything like this.
    No.
    It was not such a thing to see doctors
    in the concentration camp.
    Were-- did you ever experience any beatings
    or see any beatings?
    Yeah.
    Well, I was beaten, too.
    My face was beat up with rifles.
    And--
    Would you be willing to explain why that happened?
    Because they just wanted to.
    You stood a little crooked or what?
    Hit you right with the rifle.
    This was the thing what they used to do.
    Are there any more special or unusual circumstances
    that you would like to speak about when you were
    in the camps, starting with Buchenwald
    and then working from Dora to Bergen-Belsen.
    Yeah, well, the same thing down in Bergen and in Dora,
    we worked, like I said, and we suffered.
    We just was depressed and everything.
    And some days, we didn't know--
    we got to get up.
    Then we got up.
    You could hardly get up.
    You know, the strength come to you.
    Even, I was already about 100 pounds, 105 pounds weighing.
    And I still was--
    how do you call it-- the energy to work.
    Were you able, in any way, or did you
    attempt to practice your religion?
    No, was no way to practice religion
    and no way you could do practice religion.
    First, we don't even know if it's
    Sunday or Monday or Tuesday.
    So you lost track of all days?
    Yeah, and once in a while, we knew it.
    Sunday, sometime, we didn't go to work,
    and we knew it's Sunday.
    Because the German, the SS, you know,
    didn't come to the barracks to takes us to work.
    And again, to go back, I think I asked you the question earlier.
    Why do you think that you survived?
    Well, like I say, I believe in God.
    In Jewish, you say, I had [YIDDISH].
    He was over me all the time.
    What were the first signs, for you,
    that the war might be coming to an end?
    Well, after Dora, they took us.
    I saw it, already.
    Dora, also, you know, it was--
    I don't know what year.
    I'm thinking about what Year Maybe '44, end of '44,
    they took us to Bergen-Belsen.
    In Bergen-Belsen, we did the same routine, all
    over the same routine, getting up in the morning and running
    and take us from the barracks.
    And we saw it was--
    something's getting quiet, already.
    Bergen-Belsen was already the end.
    I don't know why they was taking us from one camp to the other.
    And we saw it, already.
    When they took us to work was less German SS
    to take us than it used to be.
    And then-- but this was the end, already, you know?
    And then we saw it, that something's coming to an end.
    And that was the thing, you know.
    But I didn't finish the other one.
    There's so much to talk about.
    I don't know.
    That's what I would like you to do is to please talk
    about your experiences.
    Yeah, well, let's go on about.
    Should we go back to Buchenwald and start again.
    Yeah, around Buchenwald.
    When they took us to Buchenwald, it was quite a few years.
    Every day the routine, and every day you see people dying,
    and every day, you know, harass people,
    take them out of the line.
    And we saw trains coming in from all over, from all over Poland,
    Europe.
    And we saw the trains coming in and dead people
    taken to the crematoriums.
    And was just horrifying things to see these things.
    And we was in Buchenwald every day.
    And every day, one looked at the other one,
    you know, from the beginning.
    We still got strength from before.
    And you took-- you know, they had showers.
    We went into a shower.
    You get your hot water.
    And a minute later, you had cold water--
    from cold to hot, from hot to cold.
    When you got out of the shower, you was shivering,
    you know, from freezing.
    And that's what-- this was the routine.
    How often did you were you able to even take showers?
    We took showers?
    I don't know.
    I don't remember how often.
    It wasn't every day.
    But I would say every week.
    Every week, yeah.
    Did you have any dealings with the crematoriums?
    Did you ever have to work in them
    or have anything to do with them?
    Well, we took a [? dog ?] and the dead people,
    from trains when they used to come in.
    Yeah.
    We used to take them down, you know, and the crematoriums.
    And that was every day.
    Every day the same thing.
    And you hear noise and people coming in.
    It was very, very, very, you know--
    terrifying things to hear.
    Did you have any special friends,
    that you were with in Buchenwald,
    but, because of this special friendship,
    it possibly helped you to survive or made life--
    Well, we always stick together.
    All-- you know, our people, we was there.
    We all-- we couldn't help each other mit much.
    But we really-- we really tried to stick to each other.
    And we talked.
    What did we talk?
    We saw what's going on.
    Anyway, we couldn't say anything much.
    Where was your brother?
    My brother was mit me all the time till the liberation.
    You two were able to?
    How did you manage to do that?
    You know, everybody asked me the same thing.
    It was just, like I say, amazing how we stick
    together, hold hands together.
    Did the Germans know that you were brothers?
    I don't think they knew it.
    I don't think they knew it.
    We all-- we all survived together
    till we was liberated and to the end,
    from one concentration camp to the other one.
    It was just a miracle.
    People ask-- all of them, they ask me the same thing--
    how we managed to do it.
    Do you attribute it-- maybe, your reason for survival
    is because the two of you were able to stay together?
    Could be, too.
    It could be.
    It could be.
    Probably is.
    Did your brother-- you mentioned that you were sick
    often in the camps.
    Did your brother help take care of you
    or, if your brother was sick, did you help take care of him?
    Well, this was not so-- yeah, well.
    It was not that you think to take care of each other.
    If you couldn't get out, you was finished.
    You know. even if I don't feel good,
    I had to get out of the barracks.
    But if I were left in the barracks, they would finish me.
    When you were ill, did you go to work every day?
    Yeah.
    It was such-- not such a thing, you don't go to work.
    It was not--
    How did you make it through the day at work?
    Well, we did it the best we could.
    We really-- You know, we couldn't even
    lift up the stones to carry from one place to the other.
    Did the other workers try to help you
    or do some of your work?
    Yeah.
    Oh, yeah, we helped each other.
    We see something is wrong with someone, we really helped them.
    If there was a member of your barracks was sick,
    did you try to share your food with them to give them
    a little bit of extra?
    A little bit extra?
    Yes.
    We even-- we even took our blankets.
    We covered them up when we see he's shivering.
    You all--
    So we did.
    This, we really did to each other.
    And you had blankets?
    We had the blankets, what we got from the concentration camp.
    You know, when we went into the barracks, from the beginning,
    we had a blanket.
    What did you sleep on?
    Just the bunks.
    You know, just bunks.
    With boards?
    Yeah.
    Did you have any straw covering or any straw for?
    I tell you what, I think it was a straw thing on the bottom.
    Yeah, were straw things.
    And there was one bunk on top of another.
    Oh, two bunks, yeah, one on the top of the other.
    How many people?
    Do you know how many people were living in a barracks?
    I would say at least about--
    I would say about 300, 400 people, one barrack.
    How many people shared a bunk?
    Did you have to--
    I mean, one for a person, yes.
    One for a person.
    And you had no heat?
    To tell you the truth, I don't even remember was eat
    or not heat.
    I just, you know, remember these things.
    And you never-- did you have any coats
    or anything like this when the weather-- for the winter
    weather?
    No, sir.
    No, we never had coats.
    We never know what coats means during the concentration camps.
    Is there anything else you want to talk about?
    But let's start with Buchenwald and any more experiences
    that you can recall.
    Well, we had a lot of experience before we
    got to the concentration camps in Buchenwald, from one
    to the other, you know, mit the trains, mit the wagons.
    This is the purpose of the tape, is to get
    all this information down.
    Well, I want to go all over.
    I mean it's so much, I don't even remember everything.
    Mr Charney is going to begin, again,
    and go into a little bit more detail.
    And we'll start back with the ghetto in his hometown.
    The ghetto was very, very heartbreaking
    when we saw the Germans, you know,
    arriving every day-- every day different kinds.
    And we were really worried about killing.
    And we hear-- killing was every day--
    shooting, killing.
    And these were people in the ghetto?
    Yeah.
    And they used to take them out, in the middle of the night,
    mit the German, you know, [? what they ?] call, trucks.
    We hear the shooting.
    And we know they were killed.
    You couldn't sleep during the night.
    It was fear, they're coming for you.
    And--
    Do you know why they were killing the particular people
    they were killing?
    Was there any reason?
    Or were they just chosen randomly?
    They chose them randomly.
    And they come to the houses and knocked.
    And they take them out and took them away.
    You never saw them again.
    This is still in the ghettos.
    And--
    Did you ever have to have any dealings
    with the people who were shot?
    Did you have to help move them and--
    No, this we didn't do.
    This, we didn't do it.
    We didn't deal with this kind of problem.
    Well, we-- you know, in the morning, we used to get up.
    We used to look out of the building where the ghetto was.
    You saw the German just flying through.
    You couldn't look, too.
    By now they could shoot you, too.
    It was very, you know, hard to describe everything.
    What did you have?
    What did you have to eat in the ghettos?
    Well, we had, still, you know, food from the places where
    they were--
    what do they call it--
    made the ghetto out of the whole street.
    People had business.
    And, you know, we have, still, bakeries, too,
    where they bake, through the night, whatever.
    Flour, they had.
    We used to go and get some bread.
    We didn't pay anything.
    They just contribute, but we know it's going to be bad.
    So the time come, when we saw, already, they
    went up to every house or whatever, a building,
    and they start taking out all the people,
    all the people on the streets.
    And then when the thing starts, you
    know, the place they're sending out to the--
    from the city to the camps.
    We saw already, that's very bad.
    This was the time, already, we were separated from our parents.
    You were separated from your parents
    when you were still in the ghetto?
    Yeah.
    Yeah.
    When they took us out on the street, we were separate.
    And we all went together.
    And when, already, the Germans, you know, make to go to the left
    or to the right, whoever they want to send away
    to the concentration camps.
    This we know already exists.
    Now, I didn't see my parents anymore.
    When you were separated, and it was obvious
    that you were going to the camps, what happened?
    What was the next step?
    What happened to you after the separation?
    Well, we went.
    We went to the railroad stations.
    They packed us like calves in the trains, the wagon trains.
    And from the wagon trains, you know,
    we were staying on the way, I don't know, five, six days.
    And, we was bumping from one train to the other one.
    And we don't know where it is.
    When the line come up, so it's [? that ?] high, we looked out.
    We don't know where we were.
    Was there room for you to sit down on the train
    or were you standing?
    Was no sitting.
    We were standing.
    Did they feed you at all?
    Nothing at all.
    During the time, no.
    Did you take food with you on the train?
    We couldn't take food.
    We didn't have any food to take with us.
    So for six or seven days, you were without food?
    Yeah.
    Did you get water?
    Sometimes when we stopped on a station,
    you know, we opened up a little bit, a little bit of the,
    you know, railroad, you know, the little window.
    Some people felt sorry for us and throwing our left bread.
    We divided it.
    We divided.
    And maybe a little water, but this was all.
    And there were no sanitary facilities.
    No, sir.
    No, no, there was no nothing till we got out from the trains.
    OK, where did you get off of the trains?
    Was it at Buchenwald?
    It was already in Buchenwald.
    Yeah, we arrived at the camps.
    We saw.
    Then we got off.
    When the train stopped, we saw the striped suits,
    and we know where we are.
    Was there another separation made of the people
    when you arrived in Buchenwald, left and right?
    No, no, they already packed us up whatever barracks was empty.
    Whatever, who didn't made it, they-- you know,
    disposed of [? shortly. ?]
    What happened to you the first-- what was
    the first thing that happened to you when you came to the camp?
    What did they do to you?
    Well, the Germans, first, schnell, schnell, you
    know, they get us together.
    And like I said, they took us to the showers and take showers.
    And that's where we got showers.
    We got-- We took everything off, whatever we had.
    If we had something, we left it.
    And we got the striped suits on.
    Did they shave your heads?
    Yeah.
    I think, yeah, they did shave us.
    And we didn't have any hair.
    No, no.
    Did they continue that throughout your three and 1/2
    years there?
    I think they did every--
    I don't know, every five, six months.
    They did it every five, six months.
    After you were in the shower and you got your uniform--
    We went.
    And at first, from the shower, we went in another room.
    And the Germans, right away, give us-- was already
    hair cut, a striped suit.
    Now, we went into another, another place, to another room.
    And we put it on.
    If you're tall, you got a-- if you're tall,
    you got pants so short.
    And lucky-- I was short.
    I got pants all the way down.
    So you got the long pants?
    No, I didn't got.
    I got the short ones.
    Were you able to trade with somebody else?
    Yes, we did.
    Yes.
    Not everybody wanted to trade, because he
    was lucky to get a long one.
    And then after you were given your clothing,
    what happened to you next?
    Now, everybody, the Germans are yelling and hitting us
    while we get into the barracks.
    And then we stayed overnight.
    And then every night, they used to come in.
    Every morning, they used to come in and yell at us.
    Always yelling at us to get out and get out and start standing
    in the line.
    And--
    You were describing, you had just gotten your uniforms.
    Yeah.
    Well, we got--
    And you were sent to the barracks.
    Yeah.
    And then we already, every day-- during even the night, the SS
    come in and make a lot of noise and make us get up,
    in the middle of the night, too, once in a while.
    What did they make you do?
    Get out and stand in the line and coming and go back again.
    And then in the morning, we had to get up,
    everybody, in the morning.
    The noise, this, the yelling from them was unbelievable.
    I got up in the morning.
    And we used to stay in the line, hundreds
    of people, separated in groups.
    And everybody used to go to work.
    We used to go to work, I would say, four miles away,
    five miles away.
    And you walk there?
    We walked there.
    And we walked there.
    When we got to the places and everybody
    got the shovel and what do you call it.
    And we used to-- we just sent into ditches
    to make ditches and carry stones from one place to the other.
    And that was every day.
    Even, we didn't have to do this, but they
    made us do it because to make us occupied.
    They don't want us to stay, every day, in the barracks.
    For 3 and 1/2 years?
    For 3 and 1/2 years.
    You dug ditches?
    Ditches and stones and trains coming in, unloading,
    all the kind of things.
    Did you have to unload the trains?
    Yeah.
    Yeah.
    We unloaded all the kind of equipment for the Germans,
    not for us for the Germans.
    And once in a while, we got in boxes.
    I don't know what it was, boxes, but also shovels.
    The only thing was for us to work with, all equipments.
    You said you had to walk four or five miles.
    Five miles every day.
    Five miles was nothing to walk every day.
    Did they keep you in a supply of shoes?
    Did you have shoes throughout this whole time?
    We had shoes.
    We had shoes, yeah.
    It was they brought us shoes, but they wasn't brand new.
    They were used-up shoes brought in maybe
    from the people what they didn't survive, and they had.
    That's what we took from them and wear it.
    And we were lucky, with you know, the coats what
    they took off, we used to wear.
    Actually, se took clothes for the people who didn't survive.
    This was our survival.
    Their coats and the shirts and the shoes, that's
    why we took it off wear it.
    And the Germans let you do this?
    Yeah, they do.
    And they beat us.
    But we took them off.
    And they would-- and they brought in a lot of clothes,
    too.
    And this was, you know, the same thing every day and every day.
    And--
    Yeah?
    Did they ever?
    You said you were beaten.
    But it was just before then?
    Many times.
    Many times.
    Were you ever singled out to be beaten in front of the group
    or were there others singled out?
    Oh, yeah, in the line, they use to walk over.
    They hit you.
    See, this is my whole thing was beaten with a rifle.
    Was your chin all broken?
    Yeah, all broken.
    And when was--
    My teeth got broken up.
    I couldn't-- this was done by the Germans and when we stayed
    in the line-- the line, you know, to count and you know.
    And after that count and after that, some of them got beaten,
    some of them got hit.
    They couldn't say anything.
    We was waiting till the announcement
    come to start working.
    That's where we worked.
    We walked four miles.
    And we got there, every day, for years and years and years.
    That was the whole thing.
    That was all-- they wanted--
    like they know they're not going to survive.
    And people was dying every day till it's got
    a handful left in the camps.
    And now, after, they took us to Dora.
    And Dora was very bad.
    Dora was the worst you ever heard.
    Buchenwald was bad, too.
    Can we just go back to Buchenwald for a minute.
    Yeah.
    I'll try.
    OK, is there anything more that you want to talk about.
    Buchenwald before we go on to Dora?
    Well, Buchenwald, like I say, I mean,
    people were dying every day.
    We saw them dying.
    We saw them dying in the barracks.
    And we used to take them out, whoever passed away.
    Did you bury them or did you just?
    No.
    We-- the Germans, you know, they had--
    Germans, well, they took them to the crematoriums.
    And you had mentioned, earlier, that you
    helped to unload bodies, was it, off the transport trains?
    Yeah.
    Sure.
    The transport, when they come in, from other cities,
    to the German camps.
    Was this part of your job, also?
    Oh, yes.
    They took-- sure.
    When you were-- did you do this instead of digging
    the ditches or?
    Well, we did whatever they need us.
    They need us when the trains come in.
    The Germans didn't took care of the bodies when
    they passed away.
    Anything more about Buchenwald?
    Well, let me ask you another question.
    Did you-- when you were in Buchenwald,
    did you have any idea how the war was going?
    Did you know?
    We didn't know anything about it.
    You never got any outside--
    We didn't know anything, no outside, no nothing.
    We know every day.
    We know every day is coming in to get out,
    and every day we have to go to work.
    And that's what we did every day.
    You were getting no reports from the new people
    who were coming into the camps?
    Well, yeah, when they come, whoever survived.
    They said they coming from this city,
    from Czechoslovakia, from Hungary, from--
    you know, from other towns, from Poland, all over Poland.
    Poland is-- the main thing was Polish.
    And they told us.
    We know they're coming in and what's happened
    and how bad it is, you know, with the Germans,
    where they took them away.
    We didn't see any old people coming, like in the 50s.
    This was out of the question.
    So mostly young.
    All young, all young people.
    All young people.
    After Buchenwald, you were then?
    After Buchenwald, we were took to Dora.
    Dora--
    How did you get to Dora?
    They took us in trains, in cattle trains, the same way.
    How long did it?
    Any idea of how long it took you?
    I would say, also, about five days.
    Were you given food at this time?
    We got food, on the way, when we go on the trains, on the cattle
    trains to Dora.
    Everybody got, maybe, a half a loaf of bread.
    And that's where we went to Dora.
    It took five days to Dora.
    In Dora, we work for the rest of the years.
    When you first got to Dora, what did the Germans do?
    First of all, we arrived in the middle of the night.
    It was mountainous.
    It was cold weather.
    I don't know how we really survived.
    That's unbelievable.
    Here was Russian and Russian from the mountains
    to these mountains.
    Where was Dora located, do you know?
    Also Germany.
    I don't know.
    You know, I don't even remember.
    But it was Germany.
    Over there, we got to the barracks.
    And the next morning, we got to the tunnels.
    Did you have-- when you were taken to the barracks,
    did you have blankets at Dora?
    Yeah, we got blankets.
    Yeah, they gave us a blanket.
    Yes, this, we get it.
    Were they-- what were the beds like?
    They also bunks.
    There was no beds, bunks.
    How many?
    Wooden bunks?
    Oh, a lot of them, a lot of them.
    This was big barracks.
    How many people in a barrack?
    Like I say, about 300, 400 in a barrack.
    Yeah.
    And when we went to Dora, every day,
    we got in-- used to come in loads of trains
    mit the equipment for the V-1, the V-2, whatever,
    making the missiles.
    And this was about--
    I think about a year and a half we was there-- a year
    and a half in Dora.
    And in Dora, we used to go every day.
    Every day, the same thing and work and unload the trains.
    And God forbid-- every day, when we went into the tunnels
    to unload the trains, used to see people hanging for sabotage.
    They did something wrong or something.
    They were hanging them for you to see it.
    You know how they hang him, not to do something which
    you're not supposed to do.
    Did you have roll call in the morning,
    again, like you did at Buchenwald?
    Every day.
    Every day.
    Sometimes, middle of the night, they took us out.
    How far did you have to go, at Dora,
    from the barracks to your job?
    It was not far.
    It was not far.
    I would say about--
    close to three or four miles.
    Did you have any work?
    Were you still able to get coats and shoes and things
    such as these?
    Things would come in from the other people
    what they didn't survive.
    That's why we took it.
    That's why we--
    You were still able to get things at Dora?
    Yeah, yeah, yeah.
    What type of food did you have at Dora?
    The same thing, A soup in the evening and a little coffee,
    maybe a slice of bread once a week or twice a week.
    And that was the routine.
    Every day, the same thing.
    We used to work-- the same thing.
    Were there beatings at Dora?
    Oh, yeah.
    At every camp was beating.
    It's not such a thing was not beating.
    Was Dora better or worse than Buchenwald?
    Well, at Dora, we did more--
    what do you call it--
    unloading trains with the equipment.
    But this was the main thing about the missiles
    where they were working.
    And Buchenwald was also, every day--
    we didn't need to do anything.
    They make you get out and make you go four miles
    and make you-- used to come in to the place.
    They used to grab a shovel, used to walk on it.
    They used to yell at you.
    Do you know why you were chosen to go to Dora?
    Why were you chosen to go to Dora?
    Because they picked people at random.
    They needed workers over there.
    They took us over there.
    We-- you know, at random, they took us out,
    and they sent us to Dora.
    Anything else you'd like to say about Dora, any experiences?
    Dora?
    Well, it was a very--
    it was a very bad--
    Any camp in Germany was bad.
    What made this maybe worse than Buchenwald?
    Because we had more work to do, you know, to unload the trains,
    open up the doors from the trains,
    and load it on German vehicles to get into the tunnels.
    And God forbid, if you dropped something,
    it was supposed to be sabotage to them.
    What happened if you dropped something?
    Well, they took you and hung you or they kill you.
    There was no thing, something like this.
    Anything else about Dora?
    Well, like I say, every day was the same, same identical work.
    We did it every day.
    You went-- OK, I'm sorry.
    Yeah.
    we saw people coming in every day, too, from other camps
    or maybe from other towns where they took them away to bring
    to us.
    Always was loaded.
    Every day, some people coming in.
    You left Dora to go to Bergen-Belsen.
    Yeah, Bergen-Belsen is also like this.
    Do you know why?
    Why did you leave Dora?
    Why did they send you from Dora to Bergen-Belsen?
    They didn't have-- they wanted to finish us up,
    you know, transfer us from one camp to the other one.
    How did you get from Dora to Bergen-Belsen?
    From Dora?
    From Dora to Bergen-Belsen?
    Also by cattle trains.
    That was the main thing, transportation.
    And in Dora, we was, I don't know, about a year, I think.
    And then--
    We worked the same thing.
    At Bergen-Belsen, you mean?
    Yeah.
    When you arrived at Bergen-Belsen,
    what did the Germans do?
    The German?
    You know, the same thing, always yelling, always chasing, always
    hitting, if you was behind or something, with the rifles.
    And what was your job at Bergen-Belsen?
    Bergen-Belsen, we used to do the same thing.
    We used to all go out for miles.
    He worked on, you know, stones and help the German construction
    workers to deliver, like build something, equipment something.
    At Bergen-Belsen, did you have any idea
    that the war was ending?
    No, we didn't.
    We didn't.
    No, we didn't.
    But who knows anything?
    You didn't see anybody from the outside to tell you anything.
    And when did you first get-- when
    did you have your first signs that the war was
    coming to an end?
    You mentioned, earlier, that there were
    fewer Germans in the camps.
    Yeah.
    Then after we saw it, already, in Bergen-Belsen.
    But first of all, they skipped a couple of days.
    They didn't took us to work.
    Were you fed?
    Did they provide you with food those days you didn't work?
    Well, you got a-- yeah.
    You got a little water.
    There was no-- didn't call food for to eat.
    And, you got up, only you saw people dying in your barracks.
    It was very sad.
    And that was the--
    like I say, everything in Bergen-Belsen.
    We did the work, did the work, and did the work.
    And finally, we saw.
    One day, we got out, and we didn't see any SS Germans
    anymore.
    We saw something's wrong.
    There were no Germans around, whatsoever?
    Just one day.
    One day, we got up in the morning, we didn't see nobody.
    What did you do?
    I, personally, we didn't--
    couldn't walk.
    We crawled out.
    And we stayed around, maybe, in the afternoon.
    It was a little sunny day.
    And we saw English troops arriving with tanks.
    And then what did you do?
    And we saw already, we was--
    survived.
    What did you do when you saw the English.
    Well, first of all, I was taken to the hospital.
    A lot of them didn't made it.
    And I also celebrated on my birthday, April the 15th.
    And your brother was still with you?
    My brother was still with me, yes.
    And how long were you in the hospital?
    I think at least six, seven months.
    And you were in a British hospital?
    No, in a German hospital.
    In a German?
    Who was taking care of you?
    German doctors-- oh, yeah.
    Already--
    After the war, the Germans--
    and nobody knew anything.
    They always said, they didn't know.
    And they were very, very friendly.
    They tried to help the utmost.
    Do you know if these doctors were part of the German Army
    during the war?
    I don't know.
    I don't know.
    We didn't know it.
    But they're really-- and really, they really, you know,
    tried to do their best.
    After you left the hospital, after you were better,
    what did you do and where did you go?
    Well, after I get my strength back, I went back to Poland.
    I went back to Poland to look for someone,
    maybe somebody survived.
    You were looking for family members?
    Yeah.
    Besides your mother and your father,
    did you have a large family, aunts, uncles, cousins.
    Yeah, we had uncles.
    Oh, yeah, we had uncles.
    We had cousins-- oh, cousins, dozens.
    And they didn't-- I went back.
    And what did you find?
    I couldn't find nobody.
    No one?
    Nobody.
    And the antisemitism was very big in Poland.
    You know, when I went back to Poland, first of all,
    it was the Russian, already.
    And when I went to the Polish person, who
    he occupied our house, he started to say,
    I'm glad to see you.
    He said, in Polish, you still alive?
    How would-- how would someone feel if a man said like this,
    growing up, living together?
    How long did you stay in Poland?
    Three months.
    And I had a hard time to get out of Poland.
    Did your brother go with you to Poland?
    Yeah.
    And I had a hard time to get out of Poland,
    because the Russian was there.
    You couldn't get out anymore.
    You had to have passes.
    And it was bad, very bad.
    Were you able to get a pass?
    [? No. ?] Finally, we went to Berlin.
    How did you get to Berlin?
    By trains.
    You had no problem getting to Berlin?
    No.
    By the Russian, it was occupied.
    It was no problem to go from one place to the other.
    We didn't have to pay-- have too much money either.
    And we went to Berlin.
    And down from Berlin, we went to Czechoslovakia.
    It's also Russian occupation.
    So you can move anywhere within the Russian territory?
    Yeah.
    And then we went to Czechoslovakia.
    We stayed, I think, about two weeks
    and found out what the best place is to go to the border,
    back to West Germany.
    And that's what we did during the night.
    You know, from the beginning, it was easier
    to go through like now.
    And we went.
    You know, we crawl on our stomach,
    I think, about two miles--
    Into the?
    --or three miles through the border, you know, to the--
    Allied part.
    --Allied part-- from the Russian, back to West Germany.
    Was so bad in Poland, you couldn't see what was going on.
    You know it was still fresh.
    Did you experience-- when you were in Poland,
    did you personally experience any antisemitism?
    Yes.
    Can you describe [CROSS TALK]
    Very bad.
    The Polish people was--
    they were really bad when the Jewish come back.
    You know, some of them was good.
    But some of them, like he said, you're still alive,
    because I came to take away my piece of property.
    Could you do anything?
    I told him if he wants to--
    I needed some money.
    I told him if he wants to buy it,
    he can buy it and get at me whatever he can.
    But he said, no.
    He fixed the house.
    This house belongs to him.
    Were there any--
    Then took a lawyer in Poland.
    And I took my power of attorney, everything in my name
    and my brother's name or my name.
    And he gave me the power of attorney.
    And I saw a Polish man, which I know him.
    I said, if you want to buy the piece of property,
    you can buy it.
    And he said, how much you want it?
    And I told him, I don't know, maybe $300.
    Can you imagine?
    And he paid me the money.
    And I signed the paper by the lawyer.
    And I said, you go ahead and you take away from this man.
    And I didn't see him anymore.
    I didn't want even go back anymore.
    And you got the property or some money from it?
    Yeah, I got.
    The man gave me about $300.
    Were there any possessions of yours still in your home
    when you went back?
    No.
    No.
    --for them to take?
    Nothing?
    It was things, you know, furniture, something.
    But it was not expensive things.
    So you didn't take anything with you?
    No, I didn't.
    I didn't want it.
    I couldn't take it.
    When you went to Germany, when you came back
    into Germany, how long?
    Where did you go in Germany and how long did you stay there?
    I stayed in Munich.
    I stayed in Munich for five years.
    And I was connected with the United
    Jewish-- what do you call it-- with the organization.
    Not--
    Joint Distribution Committee.
    Distribution with the foods, to give them out
    and this kind of stuff.
    I used to come in.
    That's where I used to work at.
    You worked for the Joint Distribution Committee?
    Yeah.
    And what did you do?
    What was your job with them?
    You know, working, coming in, merchandise-- give out
    the things.
    And I also, I had a little meat market,
    afterwards, about a couple of years.
    What was life like for you in Munich?
    How did the Germans, who were there, treat you?
    They were very friendly from the beginning.
    You know, I used to go around with them.
    They used to be nice.
    And now you saw it, already, some of them
    gets a little bit already a different way.
    What made you decide to leave Munich?
    I didn't.
    I didn't.
    Look, I didn't have any future in Germany to stay.
    After what I went through in Germany,
    over those years, when I got my strength back,
    I didn't want to stay over there.
    What made you decide to come to the United States?
    Well, I'll tell you, I didn't want
    to come to the United States.
    We had registered to go to Australia, me and my brother.
    You and your brother?
    My brother was married.
    When did he get married?
    He got married in Poland.
    When we were-- when we went back to Poland, he got married.
    Married?
    A little wedding.
    And then she went with him all the way,
    like me, to Czechoslovakia, went back to West Germany.
    And we stayed over there.
    And his paper come to go to Australia.
    My paper was laid off because of my physical sickness.
    You were still suffering?
    Still.
    Yeah, my--
    The problem?
    Do you want to show them?
    If you want to see my legs, I'll show it to you.
    Your problem was with your legs?
    You would like to see it?
    Well, in a little while.
    OK.
    No.
    But what was the problem?
    It was medical, you know, health purpose.
    And they laid off my papers.
    They didn't want it.
    They didn't allow me to go.
    What problems did you have with your legs?
    I have a-- a hand-grenade shot through the Germans.
    I didn't told you this.
    No.
    Would you like to tell me this?
    Well, I was-- they were throwing hand grenades in Dora--
    in Bergen-Belsen before the liberation.
    And I was wounded on my both legs with shrapnels.
    And it was lucky when the war was almost over.
    Who took care of your legs for you?
    They took me in the barracks, you
    know, and compresses with cold water.
    The inmates in the barracks with you?
    Yeah.
    Not the-- mine, my friends, what they
    were in the barracks with me.
    And you had no medicine then?
    No, no medicine.
    All just water.
    Water.
    And some kind of rags or bandages.
    On the legs, yeah, and none of it was bandaged.
    And--
    Did you have infections?
    Well, if it would be longer, I would have had infections.
    But this was already almost before the liberation when
    the English troops come in.
    Then when they took me to the hospital, they operate on me
    and took the shrapnels out, out of my legs.
    You're very lucky.
    Yeah.
    And then, you know, this was, I didn't
    know whether I am going to make it because of the wounds.
    And then they took out the shrapnels,
    and my legs got healed up.
    And that's the reason why I couldn't go to Australia.
    And then I said to my brother, don't wait for me.
    You go ahead.
    You got a wife.
    And he had a son.
    His son was born in Germany, too, the son I showed you.
    And he went with him.
    And I remained in Germany, Munich.
    And I register.
    We have friends.
    We register to the United States.
    And it took four months for me to get my papers to go to.
    I didn't have any problems.
    And where did you--
    where was the first place you came to in the United States?
    To New York.
    I stayed in New York for three months.
    I couldn't get a job.
    And they send me to, here, to Washington, DC.
    Who sent you here?
    The Jewish community.
    United Jewish Appeal?
    Yeah.
    Yeah.
    And here, I came here.
    And I got a job.
    And I worked as a meat cutter.
    What are your feelings, today, about
    how the war influenced you?
    How I feel about who, about the Germans?
    Well, how the war--
    looking back, today, how did the war influence you, now?
    How does it influence you now?
    In which way?
    How do I feel about the whole war?
    Well, I never forget it.
    I always have memories.
    I always dream about the things what I went through.
    And it's no way you can forget the things what you went
    through, especially me, no way.
    And you know, do I hate the Germans?
    Yes, to this day.
    And what they did to all, the whole Jewish 6 million people.
    You saw the picture.
    How can you forget such a thing?
    Impossible.
    You know, I never told my daughter this much,
    what I'm telling you--
    never.
    She would like to know, but I never talked to her
    about these things.
    Have you talked to other people about these things?
    Well, other people know.
    You know, if they ask me, they know.
    But you can't talk to your daughter about it.
    No.
    My wife knows everything-- not too much, but she knows.
    What kind of feelings do you have, now and during the war,
    about being Jewish?
    Well, I have a good feeling.
    I'm always proud to be a Jew.
    I'm always proud to be a Jew.
    That's why I suffered all these years because that I'm a Jew.
    Why should I feel different today?
    Did you receive any war reparations.
    Yes, I'm getting, from Germany, restitution.
    How do you feel about this?
    It's blood money.
    Do you feel you're getting enough?
    Never.
    Never.
    They never can pay me back what they did.
    But you know, I'm not the only one.
    Thousands and millions of people, the Jewish people
    are going to survive again.
    I won't say millions, but thousands of them,
    what they get.
    Especially now, for me, it helps.
    I don't get too much.
    I get $150 a month restitution.
    Is there anything else that you would
    like to talk about or say that you might not have said,
    any more experiences, any more feelings that you have?
    Well, it was a lot of bad dreams during the concentration camps,
    a lot of nightmares.
    You couldn't sleep.
    A lot of--
    The nightmares, were they about what happened
    to you, personally, or what?
    The nightmares what you went through
    till you got to the concentration camps--
    the trains and the suffering during the trains,
    and saw what's going on in the place
    where I was born, in Czestochowa, how they were
    taking out people and shoot them right in front of you
    and this kind of stuff.
    Did you ever see them shoot any of your family members
    or any of your cousins or your aunts or uncles?
    No.
    No, but we were separated, though.
    When we saw the other one, you know what's
    happened to the other one.
    If you saw one, what happened to them?
    What's happened to the other?
    It's a lot of memories always going be with you--
    be with you.
    Anything more that you would like to say?
    What do you want me to say?
    Anything that you would like.
    Yeah, you know.
    And it's really, to this day, you
    can't forget the things we went through.
    You never will forget it.
    I will never forget.
    I'm glad I survived everything and I can say this to you
    or anybody who ask me.
    It's really, really--
    Any more experiences you would like to talk about?
    In which way?
    Anyway.
    In Germany?
    Germany, the concentration camps, anything
    No way you can get everything, in an hour or in an hour.
    I have plenty of time.
    I know.
    Like I say, it was really nightmares from one camp
    to the other.
    You saw the people suffering.
    And you see these people dying.
    And me, too, I was always a lucky person.
    And just unbelievable what I went through and survived
    those things.
    From one, from Buchenwald to Dora and Bergen-Belsen,
    all nightmares, all nightmares.
    When the day come, you couldn't do anything about it.
    I was in hospital taking out the shrapnels out of my legs--
    this kind of stuff.
    Thank you.
    And to this day, I still--
    I don't know what to say.
    If you want to ask me some more questions, I'll tell you.
    Is it enough?
    Is it enough for you?
    It's fine for me.
    I would just like to get whatever you'd like to say.
    Yeah.
    Well, I'm happy to be here in the United States.
    I got a wonderful wife, married, a nice daughter.
    Well, thank you, then.
    This has been Katherine Rabinowitz interviewing Isack
    Charney about his experiences as a survivor
    of the Nazi Holocaust.
    This interview will be included as a valuable contribution
    to the Oral History Library of the Oral History Project,
    Jewish Community Council of Greater Washington.

    Overview

    Interviewee
    Isack Charney
    Interviewer
    Katherine Rabinowitz
    Date
    interview:  1985 January 20

    Physical Details

    Language
    English
    Extent
    1 sound cassette (60 min.).

    Rights & Restrictions

    Conditions on Access
    There are no known restrictions on access to this material. Museum staff are currently unable to copy, digitize, and/or photograph collection materials on behalf of researchers. Researchers are encouraged to plan a research visit to consult collection materials themselves.
    Conditions on Use
    No restrictions on use

    Keywords & Subjects

    Personal Name
    Charney, Isack.

    Administrative Notes

    Legal Status
    Permanent Collection
    Provenance
    The interview with Isack Charney was conducted on January 20, 1985 as part of the Jewish Community Council of Greater Washington's oral history project to document Washington, DC area survivor's experiences of the Holocaust. The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum received the interview on May 26, 1993.
    Funding Note
    The creation and display of the time-coded transcript for this collection was completed with assistance from the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany, supported by the German Federal Ministry of Finance and the Foundation Remembrance, Responsibility and Future.
    Record last modified:
    2025-02-13 10:50:21
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    https:​/​/collections.ushmm.org​/search​/bookmarks​/irn511474

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    Oral history interview with Eda Saks

    Oral History

    Oral history interview with Michael Schofield

    Oral History

    Oral history interview with Mildred Steppa

    Oral History

    Oral history interview with Marshall Treado

    Oral History

    Oral history interview with Ella Tulin

    Oral History

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