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Barbie Trial -- Day 7 -- The prosecution questions expert witnesses

Film | Accession Number: 2005.516.1 | RG Number: RG-60.1603 | Film ID: 3966

17:16 Witness Holtfort continues his testimony, explaining that there is written documentation coming from the January 20, 1942 conference about the decision to use Jews for forced labor, forcing them to create roads toward the East. Those who survived the labor needed a 'special treatment' (i.e. extermination).

17:20 Discussion of a document from 1942 in which Dannecker, the Paris head of the BDS-SIPO-SD, communicates to the head of the transport division in France the plan to exterminate French Jews.This information was disseminated from Paris to the regional offices, and the head of the Gestapo in each location therefore, knew the destiny of Jews

17:26 The attorney asks the witnesses to describe the implementation of the Final Solution on the Eastern front; in 1941 and 1942, the Einsatzgruppen used the fight against the French Resistance as cover for carrying out the Final Solution. For example, if they reported 5,000 dead in battle, perhaps 1,000 of those reported were actually Jewish men, women, and children.

17:29 The attorney asks which section of the RSHA was responsible for the decision to deport particular people, and to which camp they would be deported; Streim replies that it was section 4 of the RSHA which chose the particular camp to which people would be deported. It was the same section that transmitted the deportation orders. The attorney compares this information to Barbie's testimony that deportation orders came from section 2, not 4 (of which he was the chief). Streim replies that section 4 was primarily responsible, but that section 2 intervened because it was charged with the organization of the operation

17:34 The attorney asks witness Streim to explain the division of deportees from Lyon into three groups; presents a document describing this division; Streim replies that this classification had nothing to do with the deportation of Jews; the attorney is unsatisfied and presents the document in its original German (rather than the French translation); Streim repeats that the classification into 3 groups was the result of a particular decree from 1943, for one transport to Mauthausen

17:40 Civil parties attorney Iannucci asks the witnesses their opinion on Barbie's testimony that transport decisions were made not by him, but by the Wehrmacht. Holtfort replies that this is simply incorrect, and that Barbie had the freedom to act autonomously of the Wehrmacht.

17:44 Prosecutor Libmann asks the witnesses their opinions on several points of Barbie's testimony from February 24, 1983.

17:48 Prosecutor Zaoui asks the witnesses to comment on the racial principles of National-Socialism, which informed the creation of the Final Solution

17:55 Prosecutor Levy asks Streim to speak more broadly about the principles of National Socialism; asks further questions about the practical contents of Barbie's formal SS education. Levy feels that Streim's response is not detailed enough.

18:02 Prosecutor Rappaport reads a deposition given by one of the present witnesses in another trial in which he explained that within the Nazi hierarchy, commanders always made the communication to their superiors when they had led a successful operation, and that Barbie's Telex regarding the Izieu raid points to his command of the raid itself.

18:07 Prosecutor Bermann asks how many for the number of SS members in 1935, when Barbie, joined. The witness does not know, but he says that in 1933, it contained 50,000 members. Bermann reminds the court of the events of Kristallnacht, and asks whether the SS was involved. The witness replies that he prefers not to answer.

18:10 Prosecutor Jakubowicz asks the witnesses to comment on an argument of Barbie's defense, in which he claimed that the Jews declared war on Germany in 1939; the witnesses reply that this defense is 'stupid.'

18:13 Prosecutor Klarsfeld asks for a precision as to the date on which Barbie received instructions to arrest Jews. The witness says those instructions came the 14th of April, after the Izieu raid.

18:14 Prosecutor Welzer asks the witnesses to comment in a precise way on the 'Night and Fog' decree.

Event:  1987 May 19
Lyon, France
Accessed at United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, courtesy of Institut National de L'Audiovisuel
Record last modified: 2020-08-04 09:20:13
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