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Oral history interview with Edith Lande

Oral History | Digitized | RG Number: RG-50.105.0001

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    Oral history interview with Edith Lande
    Transcript
    At the-- and Robert Angler at the world--
    the United States gathering of Survivors of the Holocaust.
    The tape was made on Sunday the 21st of April 1985.
    Could you tell us a little bit about what your life was,
    where you lived before the war?
    From 1941 till 1942, we were in the ghetto.
    OK.
    Before-- as a child, when you lived--
    Oh, as a child you want to know.
    Yes.
    In Hlusha.
    Yes, in Hlusha.
    I was born there.
    Right.
    OK.
    What did your father do?
    What was the--
    My father was a businessman.
    What--
    Businessman.
    OK.
    It was a small town?
    Where is the town?
    The town is Kamien Koszyrski, which we all-- you put it
    on all the information there.
    Well--
    I thought he was something official.
    No, no, no, no, no.
    My father was a--
    OK.
    Where is the city, the town, located?
    Was it near Warsaw or near Lódz?
    No, near Kovel, Kovel.
    OK, which is--
    It's 50 miles from our town.
    It was a small town.
    We had about 3,000 Jews there.
    3,000 Jewish people.
    How many-- how many other people maybe?
    I can't tell you.
    You don't remember.
    I don't know.
    OK.
    Did your whole family--
    Maybe it was another 3,000 goyim.
    3,000?
    [CROSS TALK]
    Was your whole family living in that town, cousins, and aunts,
    and uncles, your whole mishpocha?
    No.
    No.
    My whole mishpocha, my father's mishpocha
    was living in the town of Hlusha, what I tell you.
    OK.
    And my--
    That's-- yeah, that's--
    Did not record.
    Yeah.
    I didn't record--
    When I told them to stay--
    when I told them to stop it, he didn't turn it on again.
    OK.
    What you got it?
    All right.
    No, he didn't get it.
    No.
    I didn't get that.
    But he didn't-- it didn't record because--
    OK.
    Let's--
    I'm sorry.
    OK.
    In-- you said the Russians came.
    Your family was comfortable, what we
    would call maybe middle class.
    You were business people.
    Well, we wasn't so comfortable with them.
    No, with the Russians.
    Yeah.
    But we weren't scared that we were
    going to get killed by them.
    The Russians, you said, came in 1939.
    The Russians came in 1939.
    So they were until 1941.
    And 1941 came the Germans.
    OK.
    Now, when the Russians came in 1939,
    you had told me that they took everyone's business away.
    Yes.
    But the rich people, yeah, they took all the businesses away.
    You know?
    And they had a co-operative, you know.
    And everybody used to stay in line to get some food.
    Let me say, today they gave sugar.
    Tomorrow they gave-- and next day they gave bread or meat.
    You know.
    And they did this to--
    You had to stay in line to get the food.
    And they did this-- they did this to everyone.
    To everyone, yeah.
    Took the businesses away, and you
    said that the more prosperous people
    they tried to send to Siberia.
    Yes.
    The rich people, they tried to send them to Siberia.
    And whether they were Jews or non-Jews,
    they did the same thing.
    No.
    No difference was then.
    No.
    No.
    OK.
    The Russians didn't treat anyone badly.
    They just--
    Not exactly.
    We weren't afraid then that we're going to be killed
    or something.
    They going to-- the only the rich people
    was a little bit afraid.
    Naturally, nobody wants to go away from your town.
    To send them out on Siberia or something like that,
    that's what they used to do.
    They did it to the rich people, you know.
    They send them out to Siberia.
    Well, what else can I tell you.
    Now you said that-- you said that you had a--
    So from 1939 to 1941 wasn't bad.
    OK.
    And you had-- you and your husband--
    Wasn't so comfortable, but it wasn't bad.
    We had to eat.
    We had our homes.
    We had a place to live, you know.
    You lived in the same house.
    They didn't take your house away?
    No.
    No.
    And you lived with your husband and a child?
    With my husband, with my son.
    Yeah-- five years old.
    During the period when the Russians came.
    All right.
    Now, and you say 1941, the Germans--
    1941 the Germans.
    Do you remember what time of the year?
    Oh, I think it was in September.
    Of 1941.
    Of 1941.
    OK.
    Tell us a little-- tell me a little bit
    about how you knew that the Germans were coming
    and what was happening.
    Did you know anything about the war?
    Well, we knew, then they came--
    they came right away, you know.
    They borders-- you know, from the German borders
    to the Polish borders was very close.
    They right away, I think, came to Katowice, to Warsaw,
    you know, the big towns.
    For us maybe took a week till come
    to our town, the first one.
    But the Russians, we wasn't--
    we wasn't so comfortable, but it wasn't too bad.
    And then when the Germans came, the Russians disappeared.
    Well, when the Germans came was, like you say, schreck.
    Oh, I didn't say this in English.
    [INAUDIBLE] you know--
    Well, schreck--
    It's all on your--
    like a mess, you know.
    You were already scared.
    You're all scared.
    And you're already shaking.
    We were-- because we heard already
    what they said they did in the other cities.
    You did hear.
    You did know what the Germans had done.
    Not so much, but we did here what they're
    trying to do to the Jews.
    And we were very scared.
    Yes.
    But right when they came into the city,
    they took 80 mens on the trucks.
    And they took them away, maybe about five miles from our town.
    And the graves was already ready for them.
    The Ukrainians, they dig the graves.
    And they kill them all.
    The Ukrainians--
    They never come back.
    But they say, the Germans said, that they
    take them to work someplace.
    But when the Germans came in 1941,
    they came with the Ukrainians.
    No.
    They came by theirself.
    They came by themselves.
    No Ukrainians.
    Well, the Ukrainians-- it was Ukrainians.
    But the Russians was already gone.
    The Russians wasn't there in our town.
    The Russians still, but some, they
    heard that the Germans coming in, they run away already,
    the Russians.
    Sure.
    All right.
    Now, when-- just to go back a little bit, in your town,
    were the goyim antisemitic?
    Very antisemitic in our town.
    Always.
    They were looking for them.
    Some confiscated everything, you know, from the Jews
    and killed them.
    A lot of Ukrainians killed Jews.
    Oh, sure.
    I know.
    A lot of them they killed.
    So this is, even before, when you were a young girl,
    the goyim were antisemitic.
    Well, you mean before the war?
    Yeah, before the war.
    Before the war, well, it was a Polish government.
    You know.
    Well, wasn't so light for them, you
    know, for the Polish government.
    But they didn't try to take it away
    from us ever, the Polish government, or to kill us
    or to do something with us.
    No.
    But right when the Germans came in,
    they changed it all the way.
    They don't know you anymore.
    They want to see your dead and to suffocated
    all the Jewish businesses and anything the Jews had,
    to take away from them and kill you.
    They were looking for-- that was the excuse for them.
    That was a good excuse for them.
    Ukrainians [CROSS TALK] sure, a lot of them.
    OK.
    Then the Germans came in 1941.
    Yeah.
    And--
    From '39 to '41.
    Yeah.
    What happened to the rest of your-- what happened
    to your family in 1941?
    Oh, they got-- in 1941 was like that.
    Well, my sister was--
    from '41 to the end of '42, we all--
    all my family was alive.
    You all stayed in the same town?
    In the same town, and we were all alive.
    But they started up with a ghetto, you know,
    to put the Jews up in a ghetto.
    Did they-- did they make a ghetto almost
    in the very beginning?
    Right from the beginning-- maybe took a month or two, you know.
    Then they started up to fence around the Jews separate.
    Did you have to leave your house?
    Sure.
    Sure.
    OK.
    And then everybody moved into a different place.
    Everybody moved into the ghetto.
    Yeah.
    So at that time--
    and they moved into the ghetto.
    They started out they used to come every night
    or every other night.
    It was like a big commissar, you know.
    They said-- one of the soldiers, you know, with the--
    like you say, let me say a sergeant or-- you know.
    They used to come to the ghetto and wake up some Jews,
    you know.
    And they said, OK.
    Open the door.
    Open the door.
    All right.
    So scared, they opened the door.
    Some of the Jews, they took it out.
    They said, OK.
    Out.
    Out from the whole house.
    It was maybe-- in that house was-- you know,
    every Jew was most together.
    You know, they were very scared.
    You know.
    They took out--
    I remember they took out one night, they took out 10 Jews.
    My husband was in between those 10 Jews.
    You know?
    And they told them all to go out.
    And they took them out at night, and they killed them.
    You know, my husband had--
    a bullet went through right through the neck.
    And it was lucky, he was the only survivor
    between the 10 people.
    You know, my husband.
    They took him out--
    They took them out--
    --in the ghetto, or out--
    --between the 10 people.
    The rest of the people were killed.
    You know?
    And I remember one of my cousins, it was a Judenrat.
    You know which means a Judenrat.
    I have to say, a committee.
    OK.
    A committee was-- they--
    the committee was about 20 Jews or something.
    One of my cousins was in the committee, Amalek.
    You know, my cousin.
    And here, he would, oh, my gosh, Landy is there too.
    That's my husband, Landy.
    Landy is there to-- if Landy is there,
    I don't want to leave anymore.
    My cousin said like that.
    I don't want to--
    My husband just wake up and says--
    his name was Judu.
    Judu, Judu, [YIDDISH], I leave.
    I leave.
    And he says to him, oh, you leave?
    Please, please, run away.
    Run away.
    Run away.
    Run back to the [? swamp, ] to our hiding place.
    My husband went back to our hiding place.
    And the rest of them, they took on the cemetery.
    You know.
    And like animals, they burned.
    This was actually in the--
    In the ghetto.
    Right in the ghetto, right there in front of everyone.
    Yeah.
    I'm talking about the ghetto.
    Right there in front of everyone.
    What happened in the ghetto.
    And that's what's going on in the ghetto,
    all the time something different,
    something different, a different act.
    Then they, you know, took maybe a couple of months,
    and they started up.
    And they said rein from Juden.
    you know, it's rein from Juden means no more Jews.
    Everybody has to be killed, rein from Juden.
    OK and the Judenrat said the ones
    they're going to go on this place,
    they're going to take out all the Jews from the ghetto.
    And was today, or I don't know.
    I don't remember what time, was it in the morning
    or in the afternoon.
    They said, oh, we have to be ready to go.
    It's going to be like that.
    Everybody is going to be count like that.
    OK, your name maybe will be to live.
    The other name will be go up to the place to get killed.
    And it was like that.
    They took all the Jews out from the ghetto,
    and they took them on a-- on a place,
    you know, right across the Jewish cemetery.
    And it was the graves was already ready for them.
    Just listen.
    Was ready, and they started up with those--
    like the--
    Name tags?
    --name tags.
    OK, you are alive, out.
    Out.
    Go.
    Go in the building.
    Was a building.
    Go.
    This one's alive.
    That's the way they started up.
    And they killed at that time about 1,000 maybe
    more than 1,000 Jews--
    children, little children.
    My sister, with her husband, with a little--
    the little boy was three years old--
    got killed.
    And some had name tags to be alive,
    and they said the children they've taken away.
    They said, if you take my children away, you take them,
    I'm going too.
    And that's the way it was.
    The parents went with the children.
    My husband at that time went with my son.
    I was in the hiding place.
    I wasn't on this place because some Jews
    were left in the ghetto.
    And they were hiding.
    They used to have such a walls, you know, double walls.
    And the people, you know, went into between the walls,
    you know.
    And it was something.
    I act like that.
    And some Jews were hiding.
    But how many can you--
    I don't--
    How did-- how did you hear what was happening in this place
    where they took your husband, your sister--
    Well, they didn't come back, didn't come back.
    But you--
    They didn't come back.
    The rest was [INAUDIBLE] and the tags to alive.
    Then we know.
    OK, this is the survivors.
    And then the rest were killed.
    I see.
    Yes.
    And--
    This was in 1942.
    This was in 1942.
    But didn't took too long.
    The rest what was left in the ghetto,
    they knew something will be left in the ghetto, some Jews.
    They said, OK, no more Jews.
    Didn't took maybe a month or two.
    You know, some Jews were left in the--
    they ran away in the woods.
    Where were your other family relatives then,
    like your father, your mother, your mother-in-law,
    your father-in-law?
    Mine-- at that time, I was survived
    when they took all the Jews on the fields to kill them.
    I was survived, and my mother, and my sister.
    I have a sister what knows me.
    OK.
    Yes.
    And my husband was gone.
    My father wasn't there at the time.
    My father passed away before the war.
    I see.
    Yes.
    And the rest of my husband's family, they all got killed.
    Nobody was survived, nobody.
    And some, a few Jews was left.
    And they said they needed him.
    Oh, they need him to work.
    They need him something to do for them, for the Germans.
    You know, do something for them.
    And they left maybe a couple hundred Jews.
    But didn't took too long.
    But the couple hundred Jews saw what's going to be with them,
    you know.
    But it's already all got killed.
    They start running away in the woods.
    You know?
    Those Jews what was left in the ghetto,
    they start running away from the ghetto, in the woods.
    Did any of the people in the town
    try to help anybody, to hide them or to--
    The goyim?
    Yes.
    No.
    No.
    Not too many.
    In 1940--
    I didn't finish.
    Oh, I'm sorry.
    Yeah.
    Yeah.
    It was like that.
    Some Jews, what they ran away in the woods,
    they met partisans over there.
    It was already Jews partisano, you know, from other towns,
    you know, from other cities.
    Some they met.
    Those Jews met some other Jews, and they met partisano.
    And some partisano, they knew the runaways, you know,
    what they ran away, Jews.
    Even the partisano, they knew this is a rich Jew.
    Oh, you gave away the gold and the silver and your business
    and everything.
    You gave it away to the Germans, so you
    came to hide it in-- to us, to the partisano in the woods?
    Some of them, a lot of them got killed in the partisanos.
    Partisanos also killed some.
    So the partisans also killed Jews
    because they couldn't hide.
    Also killed Jew.
    Yes.
    If you want to know the story about us, it's like that.
    We were left in the ghetto.
    Since some ran-- we didn't run to them.
    We were three women, my mother, and me, and my sister.
    And near the ghetto, near the ghetto
    was a Polack by the name--
    I'll tell the name to--
    Janek Minkowski.
    And I knew he's living there.
    I went once, and I got--
    I ran.
    I was young at that time, and I was strong.
    And I ran over the fence.
    And I went into his house.
    I was-- I see I have nothing to lose.
    I will get killed anyway.
    I went, and I told him like that.
    Listen, I got left some stuff in my stall.
    I got gold.
    I got watches.
    I got [NON-ENGLISH] gold, you know.
    This was Russian [NON-ENGLISH] gold.
    I'll give you every single way what I got.
    I am left with my mother and my sister.
    Please, take care of us.
    Save our lives.
    And with us was another girl.
    Her father was a [NON-ENGLISH].
    And I don't know if you know what it--
    A workman, yeah.
    Does heavy work, hard work.
    I get room, bed and board.
    And she was there.
    And listen.
    I want to say, I told him, Janek Minkowski,
    I want to save this girl too.
    Please, please, see what you can do for us.
    And he's-- I'm mixing everything.
    He start off on the First World War.
    He saved 100 Jews on his attic.
    It was [NON-ENGLISH], we say.
    That was his father, the Janek Minkowski.
    And he says, OK.
    You know what you can do at night?
    I told him, listen.
    Do what you can.
    I'm afraid to touch the fence, I say.
    See if you can do something about the fence.
    And I'll tell you everything words, where I got it.
    And I'll give you everything away.
    And we will come to you, to your house, right near the ghetto.
    Right?
    And that was like that.
    All right.
    He could go-- I don't know.
    I'll go and maybe he went over.
    He was a young man.
    He got over.
    OK.
    I can jump over.
    My sister can jump over the fence.
    What can I do with my mother?
    My sister said, you know what we're going to do?
    We'll pick up the mother, and we'll push her over the fence.
    And that was like that.
    Firs we got my mother, and then we jumped over.
    And the other girl was also a young girl.
    And we jumped over.
    And we went to his house.
    And he was keeping me in his house, us, for six weeks.
    And now when he-- where?
    He kept you in the attic or the basement or wherever?
    On the attic.
    Oh, [NON-ENGLISH] So, OK?
    He keeps us for six weeks.
    And then he says, you know what?
    He comes up, his wife, and he says,
    I don't want to hold you no more.
    We says, what?
    You don't want to hold me no more?
    You got to hold me.
    It's no question about it.
    If you're going to do something to us,
    you're going to be there too.
    So ghetto with us, you're going to go.
    You did tell him that?
    I told him that.
    It was like that.
    If they catch some Jews, you know, by goyim,
    and the Germans said, OK, you're going to be killed anyway,
    if you want to save Jews.
    And we knew about it.
    And he knew.
    He knew about it too, but [NON-ENGLISH] You know,
    he wants everything what I have.
    OK, fine.
    It's fine.
    You can have it.
    It's going to save my life.
    And he says, I don't want to hold you no more.
    He says and she says--
    I said, why?
    What I'm going to do?
    Where I'm going to go?
    I have no place to go.
    He says, OK, he let us over the day.
    And he was thinking [INAUDIBLE] my wife.
    And then he come up to us on the end.
    And he says, you know what?
    I have a sister-in-law 10 miles from the town.
    I'm coming to see her, like I told you.
    And he says, I'm going to go first.
    And you're going to tell us.
    And I'll take you over there.
    I says it's fine.
    We have nothing to lose.
    You know what?
    It was 5 o'clock in the afternoon,
    and he said-- he told us to go out.
    And we went all out.
    And we were walking through a goyishe street.
    And I'll never forget that.
    Little goyim, you know, little ones the.
    And he said-- and they said, oh.
    Then he's screaming, it's Judische, Judische.
    [POLISH] I let him hear that, [POLISH]..
    That means Jewish people are going.
    OK.
    Where were the Germans?
    Wait.
    I want to finish with that.
    Then you ask me questions.
    And we went through to the old street where were goyim.
    And we were going after him, like we don't know.
    We are not Jews.
    We are goyim, me, me and my mother.
    We are going.
    OK.
    We are marching and marching after him and everything.
    On the way comes from the other side some Germans.
    They were going to-- they wen in the woods, somebody told us.
    And they went in the woods, and they--
    they say that's oblava.
    I'll tell oblava.
    OK.
    Anybody will understand that they don't know what it is.
    And they were searching for Jews.
    And we were going in front of them.
    They didn't recognize that we are Jews.
    Mazel we had.
    If they would catch us, we would be killed.
    But the goy wouldn't be killed because he went--
    He was ahead of you.
    He was ahead of us.
    And we were marching there.
    And that's the way we came to the partisano.
    You know, we came to the sister-in-law.
    And we were by his sister-in-law.
    We were for three months.
    And we were sitting on the attic over there for three months.
    And that was close to the woods where the partisanos came.
    And those partisanos, they used to come every other night
    to search for horses, for food, for everything.
    And we knew that there are Jews in the partisano.
    And they came to this guy, who was sitting on the attic.
    And they wanted to take away from him a horse and a wagon
    and some cattles and everything.
    And I heard the guy said to him, don't take nothing from us
    because I got four women here sitting on
    my attic, four Jewish women sitting.
    He says, yes?
    And I hear they are talking from the Jews.
    And I jumped up from the attic.
    And I said-- and I--
    I wasn't that--
    I had nothing to lose, life or death.
    I came down.
    And I said, they're Jewish.
    I recognized him.
    I talk to him.
    And I said to him in Jewish, [YIDDISH]
    Don't touch from this guy nothing.
    So he keeps us, and he feeds us, and he saves us.
    Don't take nothing from him.
    And they didn't took it, nothing from him.
    And at that time, they took us away to the woods.
    And we were over there from 1943 till 1944, in the woods.
    In the woods?
    In the woods.
    In 1944, then the Russian--
    yeah, the Russians came in.
    And they freed us at that time.
    I don't know if it was at the end of September or October.
    Of 1944?
    I remember it was still nice and warm outside.
    Yeah.
    We got out of the woods.
    That's the way we are survived.
    Me and my sister, my mother, and the other girl.
    OK.
    Where was the other girl, someone
    that you met in-- that you knew from your town?
    She was from our town.
    Yeah, I knew her.
    And I see she's there already.
    I want to save her too.
    And I saved her.
    She's in Israel now.
    In the-- in 1944, when you lived in these
    people's-- in the farmhouse for the three months--
    Yes.
    --there were no Germans?
    No.
    No, was no Germans in our town.
    We went only through the town.
    I went through and I thought--
    and I came back to the city.
    And I thought, maybe I will find somebody.
    Maybe somebody survived, somebody or--
    but we didn't see nobody.
    My house was there.
    But I went in and I went out.
    And it's nothing to stay there.
    [INAUDIBLE] We were there in this town not too long,
    just a couple of weeks maybe in our town
    when we came back from the woods.
    And then we went--
    how did we went back there?
    We went to go--
    we went deeper Poland to get to the German borders again
    and to go to Israel.
    You know?
    We came to the German borders.
    We was there.
    We was in Austria.
    OK.
    Let me ask you a couple of questions about when you still
    were living with the partisans.
    Yes?
    Were there Germans still in that part of the country when you
    lived in the people's--
    I mean, the Germans would come and go?
    Yes.
    They were there.
    Sure.
    The Germans still was there in 1944.
    How did you find out things that were happening in the war,
    just through the partisans?
    Just through the partisans, they knew everything.
    They did have--
    Oh, sure.
    They had communications with the Russians.
    You know.
    And they used to came with airplanes and--
    and gave a-- to drop ammunitions for the partisans
    and some clothes.
    Was it Russian airplanes or American?
    Russian.
    Russian.
    Russian.
    The Russians-- you know, the partisans was Russians.
    Between the Russians was also the Jews, you know.
    It was some other [INAUDIBLE].
    I can't even tell.
    I think only the Russians.
    Some Ukrainians was there too, some Ukrainians,
    between the partisans.
    OK I just want to stop for one moment.
    Between the Russians was from the Jews, you know.
    It was some other organization.
    I can't even tell.
    Only the Russian sometimes was there too, sometimes,
    between the partisans.
    OK.
    I just want to stop for a moment.
    When you went to the-- when you went to the partisans in 1943,
    when you went from your town and you went to--
    1943, did you meet other people?
    Did you have a chance to come in contact
    with other Jewish people?
    Yes.
    I met some other people there.
    They wasn't from our town.
    They wasn't from our town.
    Only my husband I met and--
    see, all the partisans had different names.
    And they told me a name, [NON-ENGLISH]..
    And I didn't-- and I am thinking,
    who is this from our town, [NON-ENGLISH]??
    I don't remember a name like that.
    And they told me, OK, that's a partisan name.
    And I'd say, tell me what's the other name, then I may find out
    and know what it is.
    Then I found out.
    I met somebody else.
    He was in a small town too.
    I knew who he is.
    But I don't remember the name.
    And he says it's Sandor Lander.
    My husband's name is Sandor-- not Samuel [INAUDIBLE]..
    Yeah, Sandor Lander.
    Oh, I see Sandor Lander.
    I know who that is.
    Because, you know, in a small town, you know each other.
    It was a 3,000 Jews.
    But still you know each other by the name, and you remember.
    That's .
    All that's all.
    He was one, only from our town.
    And he was-- he was with the partisans?
    He was with the partisans.
    He was a young man living in the woods.
    He was a young man.
    He was with the partisans.
    And he was from our town.
    All right.
    Now, the partisans, what did they-- did they--
    they tried to help people?
    They--
    Yes.
    Fought with the Germans?
    Yes.
    They tried to help people, sure.
    But not all of them.
    Some partisans was very bad too.
    But when I came, was OK, because I came late already.
    I came in the end--
    by the end of the war.
    I came in 1944.
    In 1944 already, we were-- we were free,
    you know, from the Germans.
    We got out from the woods.
    All right.
    Now, in 1943, when you met your husband,
    I guess in 1943 or '44.
    Yes.
    I met my husband in '43.
    And you just-- he would just come and visit.
    Or you actually met him-- you were
    in the woods with the partisans.
    What did Dad do?
    What did your husband--
    Well, he was-- how to tell you-- he was by the--
    in the food section, to give it out, the food for the people.
    He was working in the food section.
    I don't think so if he went to go on the front,
    like the other partisans.
    But he was only in the food section.
    To be in the private lager, like they said, in a private,
    you know--
    He was in--
    People didn't go, you know, like to put
    the mines for the Germans, you know,
    like they went through with the trains or the, you know.
    Some-- some partisans, you know, they used to go and put mines.
    Right, sabotage the trains.
    Sabotage, yeah.
    Sabotage.
    OK now--
    But my husband didn't go that.
    He was-- he was only inside.
    And he took care of the people inside.
    So it was a lot of women, was women.
    Sure.
    And you know, you have to take care.
    Also, for the guys when they went to sabotage, like you say,
    and to give them out some food or ammunition or something.
    He had the keys for that, for everything.
    He was inside, in the woods, in [INAUDIBLE] lager.
    Now, the Russians-- the Russians came in 1944.
    Yeah.
    We were free in 1944.
    We-- especially our partisans because it
    was a lot of partisans.
    Right.
    It's not only the partisans where I was.
    Some got free in 1945, in the other part of the partisans.
    But in 1944, when the Russians came, you were free?
    Yeah, we were free.
    And what did you do when you were free?
    You said you went back to your town.
    I went back to my town.
    But I--
    With your mother and your sister?
    Yeah.
    With my mother and my sister.
    But we came.
    We--
    There was nothing there.
    Nobody was there.
    And we didn't see--
    that was-- then we went--
    we tried to get more closer to the borders, you know.
    You toured.
    By that time, your husband was with you?
    My husband?
    Yeah.
    Your-- the man that you met at the partisans.
    Yeah.
    Mr. Lande.
    No.
    No.
    I-- I'm-- Yes, I met him there.
    Yeah, I knew.
    He was from our town.
    Yes.
    But I got married to him also in 1944.
    This was in July.
    I think it was in July.
    Yeah.
    OK.
    Now the Russians came.
    You were liberated.
    Yeah, we were liberated at that time.
    Yeah.
    And where did you go after you left your town.
    There was no place there.
    And you tried to go to--
    Well, we tried to find some more Jews to get together, you know.
    And that's the way it was.
    We were in-- in a city by the name--
    we got closer to the border.
    Was the name, a Polish city--
    Katowice.
    All right.
    Toward-- so you went toward the German border.
    Yeah.
    We had to go to the German border.
    But we were free at that time.
    You were free, and you were just traveling on your own
    with a wagon.
    We were traveling free.
    Nobody bothered us.
    No.
    That was all over the Russians, you know.
    The Russians were there.
    Did the people try to help you at all or give you food?
    Yes.
    It was no problem.
    It was no problem.
    The same-- the same--
    They didn't bother nobody.
    --Poles and Russians didn't bother anyone.
    No.
    They didn't bother us.
    The Germans were gone, and the Russians were going to Germany.
    And you were heading--
    Yeah.
    We were heading more closer to the border.
    Toward Austria?
    To Austria, yes.
    OK.
    How did you know to get to Austria or to go to Austria?
    Well, it was-- it's in a city with the name Krakow.
    Krakow.
    We came to Krakow.
    When we came to Krakow, we met a lot
    of more Jews, a lot of more Jews.
    Oh, we went-- with those Jews, we traveled to Austria,
    like you say.
    But you--
    When we came to Austria, it was a lager over there.
    It was already more Jews over there.
    But how did to go to Austria?
    You heard-- everybody heard it was a--
    Yeah.
    Everybody-- they heard about it, you know.
    Must be was somebody wanted to tell us, you know.
    Was a committee.
    So you knew to go--
    What they were putting the Jews together,
    you know, to get to Austria.
    You know?
    Well, what did you expect--
    what did you expect to find in Austria?
    Do you remember?
    What we expected in Austria?
    Yeah.
    Did you think-- were you talking about going to Palestine?
    Just a minute.
    Yes.
    Yes.
    We were talking to get to Israel.
    Yes.
    And already was there from Israel
    came already-- in Austria was already, you know,
    a delegation from Israel, came a delegation.
    This was already in 1944?
    Or was it--
    No, this was later already.
    It was in 1945.
    OK.
    So from '44 until '45, you were--
    We traveled.
    You traveled.
    We traveled.
    We were in all kind of cities.
    We were in Krakow.
    We were in Katowice.
    We were-- then we were in a German city with the name
    [NON-ENGLISH].
    OK.
    But you traveled going to Austria hoping--
    But we tried to get to Israel.
    We traveled to Austria.
    When we came to Austria, we met a lot of Jews already.
    And it was a delegation already from Israel too.
    But it was like that.
    We didn't go to Israel right away
    because my mother figured she has three brothers in America,
    my mother.
    She said, why we should go right away to Israel?
    I want to see my brothers.
    She had three brothers in America.
    You know, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin,
    she had three brothers.
    I see.
    And they-- and they came years ago.
    Yes.
    And Austria, we were waiting from 1945 till 1946.
    We were 19-- beginning of 1945, we were in Austria.
    And in 1946-- yeah, in 1946, we came to America.
    Do you remember where you lived in Austria or how you lived?
    It was a lager by the name Bindermichl,
    a lager by the name Bindermichl.
    It was already over there a lot of Jews.
    Some Jews went to Israel.
    And some Jews went to America.
    And when we were in the lager, in Bindermichl,
    you know, I remember the address by heart.
    Would you give us the address?
    No.
    No.
    Wait a minute.
    I don't remember the address in Bindermichl.
    I remember the address for America, you know,
    where my uncles were, and my grandmother, was the address.
    And I wrote a letter.
    And the letter came there.
    And the letter was going around maybe about five, six weeks.
    And the letter came back to us, to--
    to the lager, to Bindermichl.
    They must be moved out.
    And they-- they didn't know nothing about us,
    to have to find out.
    And we didn't know how to find them.
    But I found it.
    At that time in Austria was--
    was American soldiers.
    It was a rabbi, an American.
    And it's also, I remember, was a lady in the office what she
    used to work for the American--
    for the Americans.
    I think she was American too.
    And we went there.
    And I said I remember we had uncles in America
    here in Milwaukee.
    You know, I didn't--
    I pronounce it Mil-wa-ukee.
    I didn't say Milwaukee.
    Oh, how do you spell-- she--
    I remember, she asked me, how do you spell that?
    And I spelled her that.
    She says, that's Milwaukee.
    I said, possible, I said, because I don't remember.
    Please, I said-- and my mother gave the names.
    My mother gave the names to her brothers.
    And you know, and the girl find out about them.
    And they were very happy to hear from us,
    that the sister was alive.
    You know, my mother's brother.
    And they send us affidavit right away to come to America.
    We were the first ones to come to the United States in 1946.
    They send us affidavits to the lager,
    to Bindermichl in Austria.
    Your family that was in Milwaukee,
    you said you had uncles.
    Uncles.
    Did you say you had a grandmother there too?
    My grandma wasn't alive at that-- no.
    But she did come to America?
    Yes.
    She came here in 1921, my grandma.
    My uncle's too.
    But, you know, and they send us affidavit.
    And that's the way we came here.
    And that was-- and you came here with your husband.
    I came with--
    You mother.
    --my mother.
    You sister.
    And my sister.
    Yes.
    And the other--
    And she was 10 months old.
    And the other lady, she went to Israel?
    My sister went to Israel.
    Yes.
    But you said--
    No, my sister didn't come right away here.
    My sister went to Israel.
    She said she wants to go to Israel, and she went to Israel.
    But in Israel, we brought her here.
    She was 10 years in Israel.
    And my mother said she wants to have her daughter here.
    And she got married over there.
    And she came to Milwaukee with her husband, children.
    She was 10 years over there.
    Me and my mother went to America.
    Right.
    And my sister went to Israel.
    All right now, just very briefly,
    when you lived in Austria, how did--
    where did food and clothing and things come from?
    Do you remember?
    In Austria?
    Yes.
    I think it was an American--
    I know they supplied from America.
    This was-- I don't know how--
    how do you call that?
    I forgot that?
    Weren't they like camps.
    Well was it like a displaced person camp,
    and it was people from all over.
    Yeah.
    Yeah.
    I know they supplied from American food and clothing
    and everything.
    Did you get an apartment?
    Yeah.
    We had an apartment.
    We had an apartment.
    OK.
    I would really like to thank you.
    You've given us an awful lot--
    Just tell me one thing, if you want, huh--
    --awful lot of wonderful information.
    Well, all right.
    Can you stop this.
    OK.
    Well no, Kryuk otryad, they will know who they are.
    They will know what it is.
    OK.
    You want to tell us again who the partisans were, the--
    just again, so we have it nice and clear.
    Well, we came in otryad with the name Kryuk, Kryuk otryad.
    OK.
    We came to the partisano.
    Thank you for--
    That's all I can tell you.
    Thank you for--
    We will know who they are.
    They will know what it is.
    OK.
    You want to tell us again who that-- who the partisans were,
    the--
    just again so we have it nice and clear.
    Well, we came in otryad with the name Kryuk, Kryuk otryad,
    we came to the partisano.
    Fine.
    Thank you for--
    That's all I can tell you.
    Thank you for--

    Overview

    Interviewee
    Edith Lande
    Date
    interview:  1985 April

    Physical Details

    Language
    English
    Extent
    1 sound cassette (90 min.).

    Rights & Restrictions

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    There are no known restrictions on access to this material.
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    No restrictions on use

    Keywords & Subjects

    Personal Name
    Lande, Edith.

    Administrative Notes

    Legal Status
    Permanent Collection
    Provenance
    The interview with Edith Lande was conducted in Philadelphia, PA during the American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors. The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum received the tapes of the interview from Edith Lande on September 22, 1994
    Record last modified:
    2023-11-16 08:11:51
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