Oral history interview with Kazimierz Milobedzki
Transcript
- Today is Thursday the 21st of April, 1994.
- I'm standing on the south side of what
- used to be Ulice Rogow--
- Rogowska.
- --Rogowska with people in Sokolow Podlaski.
- And there was a lady here.
- How old is this lady?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- 75.
- She's 75 years old, which means that she was born in 1919.
- And she remembers that there was a Platner family
- living on the north side of Ulica Rogowska.
- And she also remembers that the daughter
- of the rabbi from the synagogue on the corner of Piekna Street
- is still alive.
- In the ghetto there was a lady.
- There was a--
- There was a woman, who was responsible for office
- in ghetto area.
- His name was Milobedzki.
- Milobedzki-- A Jewish man or a--
- No, he was Polish man.
- And he lives now, still in Sokolow Podlaski.
- And still, the Jewish people who survived by him in some way
- pay a visit, visit him.
- Oh, so he helped to--
- He helped.
- He was the, like, official in the--
- representative of Germans.
- But in fact, he helped Jews.
- Oh.
- Was he a soldier, a Nazi soldier?
- No, he was not a soldier.
- He was not a Nazi soldier.
- He was just a man who was like a chairman
- of the office in the ghetto.
- I see.
- What this lady remember, she--
- only through him Jewish people were allowed to send letters
- outside the ghetto.
- Oh, I see.
- I see.
- And if somebody wants to send a letter to Warsaw ghetto,
- he had to give this letter to Milobedzki.
- Next the German censor look at this letter and next
- was sent to Warsaw.
- He was this kind of man.
- I see.
- So he-- where does he-- lives still in Sokolow?
- He lives still in Zochowo He lived in Zochowo.
- And just this daughter of rabbi survived by him
- still visits Sokolow together with her granddaughter.
- Where does she live?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- She lives in Great Britain.
- Oh, really?
- [POLISH]
- She's married.
- She's married to rabbi from Siedlce.
- Oh.
- Do you know her--
- do you know her name?
- [POLISH]
- Yeah.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- They read in the book.
- So is this a history book?
- [POLISH]
- It is a story of liquidation of the ghetto in Sokolow Podlaski.
- Yes.
- They have just--
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- It is about this region.
- And it is extermination of people.
- Do you remember the names of the people, Platner,
- what their first names were?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- She remember of only these, who attends to school together,
- to school, to school to help her.
- Do you remember their names?
- [POLISH]
- But not Platner family.
- She was born on this street.
- [POLISH]
- What about--
- [POLISH]
- But they live a little farther because then--
- Who, the people that she went to school with?
- A few blocks away was already Polish district.
- OK.
- So this was mainly the Jewish district here.
- Yes, during ghetto.
- Yes.
- Everything was-- belonged to Jews.
- Do you remember, they had a grandmother with a wooden leg?
- [POLISH]
- Very old.
- [POLISH]
- She remembers this very old woman.
- Her name was Feiga.
- Was Feiga.
- That wasn't the name of this older woman with wooden leg.
- No it was Sara.
- [POLISH]
- But she says the name of that was [POLISH] Sara.
- [POLISH]
- So you know, maybe another woman, invalid,
- and her name was Feiga.
- [POLISH]
- And she stays that they--
- she had a daughter Sara.
- Sara [POLISH]
- Sara was not an invalid.
- Only her mother was invalid.
- OK.
- Feiga and Sara.
- [POLISH]
- She was only one who had wooden leg, and her name was Feiga.
- OK.
- She lived at the corner.
- On the corner over there?
- [POLISH]
- If they worked as a tailor, would
- they have had a tailor store there or in--
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- She talk, only say this is a lot of Jewish--
- A lot of Jewish were tailors.
- But would they have worked in their house,
- or would they have had a store somewhere?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- No in a-- no in a shop.
- No.
- Just in their house?
- Just in the house.
- [POLISH]
- If you want to imagine how the house, this house looked like,
- it was like this.
- It was like this one.
- And also there was a slipper factory.
- They made slippers.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- No?
- No?
- [POLISH]
- But this town was famous from two professions--
- shoemakers and people who make furs.
- Furs?
- Oh, furriers.
- Yes.
- [POLISH]
- The most-- the [POLISH] the most riches family, furriers,
- were Cepelewicz family.
- Yes.
- [POLISH]
- And the richest tailor in this was--
- his name was Rybak.
- Rybak.
- [POLISH]
- So she remembers them mostly.
- And they lived in this area, or they lived somewhere very,
- very--
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- They live in a long street.
- A long street.
- [POLISH]
- Still their house standing.
- [POLISH]
- Because they had big house made of brick.
- I see.
- [POLISH]
- So she does-- do you remember when this was made
- into a ghetto and when the Germans--
- [POLISH]
- I will smoke.
- I am not smoker, but--
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- It was like this.
- Before the war, they lived, mostly Jews,
- but there was also Polish people.
- But when the ghetto was founded, Polish people were moved out.
- And the Jewish people had to move.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- Which is the Dluga Street?
- Show me Dluga.
- Oh, it is Dluga Street.
- Oh.
- [POLISH]
- Dluga.
- Dluga.
- Oh, really?
- Dluga, with an L?
- Dluga.
- We say Dluga.
- Dluga.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- Dluga.
- And it is a--
- [POLISH]
- Dluga Perecka.
- Perecka?
- Perecka?
- [POLISH]
- That's this [POLISH] Piekarska, maybe?
- [POLISH]
- And you see, and it's Dluga Street what
- divided ghetto into two sides.
- Yes.
- Yes.
- You see the Dluga Street.
- It goes like this.
- To the synagogue.
- [POLISH]
- What is number three?
- [POLISH]
- It was the new synagogue.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- Just over here?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- Yes.
- [POLISH]
- There was two.
- Then could you go from one side to another?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH] No, the one gate was allowed to enter,
- was this guard--
- Between the two sides of the ghetto.
- OK.
- Was there a difference for the two ghettos?
- Was there any reason for having one ghetto or the other?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- No.
- It is only from communication reason.
- Because it was a Polish district, Polish district.
- And Polish people have to go from one district to another,
- so they go through Dluga.
- I understand.
- Only communication, only communication is the same.
- [POLISH]
- Oh.
- But before the war, it was--
- Dluga Street was a street of really Jews and a lot of shops.
- A lot of shops.
- OK.
- And so that's the street that's just over here.
- [POLISH]
- Rosenzweig.
- Yeah.
- I have a picture in somewhere else
- of Rosenzweig in America, a big family, the Rosenzweig,
- in America.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- They were-- the Rosenzweig family had the power station.
- They owned a power station.
- Very rich family.
- They're very wealthy.
- Yes.
- [POLISH]
- Still this building [CROSS TALK]..
- [POLISH]
- Zayde-- Zayde means grandfather.
- Oh, Zayde.
- [POLISH]
- Zayde-- he was an old man?
- He was a very old man?
- [POLISH]
- Because where they lived, the Germans started to live.
- So they were resettled to Jewish district.
- And they started to live together with Rosenzweig
- because they were forced to live--
- You lived with Rosenzweig?
- Yes.
- They lived because their house was occupied.
- By the Germans.
- The Germans.
- And so when the ghetto was liquidated,
- they took all the Jews to the square.
- And then they put them on the train to Treblinka?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- Say that once again.
- [POLISH]
- But they didn't want to--
- [POLISH]
- Didn't wanted to be reported--
- he refused to be deported to Kosow.
- So they shot him?
- [POLISH]
- She told, I don't know.
- I heard, I want to die here.
- [POLISH]
- They killed-- they killed him on the courtyard.
- They killed him.
- They shot him.
- Yes.
- Because he refused to leave.
- [POLISH]
- She was-- she was just son-in-law from Warsaw.
- I see.
- I see.
- [POLISH]
- They live in one room and another room.
- The whole family, they were forced to live in one room,
- and they live in another.
- [POLISH]
- So at the beginning, they refused to get food for--
- they don't want to have food from Polish families.
- Because it's not kosher.
- Yeah.
- And next day, they--
- And when they liquidated, there was a battle for the ghetto.
- And then they took all the Jews to the--
- to the--
- To Kosow.
- To Kosow.
- [POLISH]
- To Kosow.
- And next to Treblinka.
- Was there a battle or a fight in the ghetto?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- There was no any battle.
- They went very quietly.
- They went very quickly in one day, and they took--
- and they took them--
- No any battles.
- No.
- They don't defend themselves.
- [POLISH]
- It is a recent story.
- Do you see this book?
- This is a very good book.
- Yes, the story of this area.
- Can you buy this in the store here?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- It is all--
- In the library.
- It is only available in the library, this old book.
- [POLISH]
- It was edited only in a very few copies.
- They made a few copies.
- Yes.
- [POLISH]
- And she used to take--
- [POLISH]
- It is possible to make a xerox copy if you wish.
- Sure, where is it.
- Is there somewhere close we can do this?
- [POLISH]
- Oh, it's still open.
- What is this lady's name?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- Janina Werozemska.
- Janina Werozemska, hello.
- How do you do?
- [LAUGHTER]
- [POLISH]
- And this is her son?
- [POLISH]
- And her grandson?
- Grandson.
- Grandson.
- And this is your wife?
- [POLISH]
- And this is your mother?
- Yes.
- She's sisters, two sisters.
- Oh, your sisters.
- How old is your sister?
- 95.
- 95?
- Wow.
- She's 20 years different from you.
- [POLISH]
- She looks alike.
- They look very similar.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- So we'll make some xerox copy of this [INAUDIBLE]..
- [POLISH]
- Would it be-- would it be possible--
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- 20-- 22.
- Former Rogowska 22.
- [POLISH] say the name of the street again.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH] 26.
- The old name is Rogowska.
- And the old name is Rogowska.
- [POLISH] is spelt W-Y--
- OK.
- I'm meeting on the 21st of April 1994 with--
- say the gentleman's name.
- Kazimierz Milobedzki.
- Who is 74 years old.
- So he was born in 1920.
- And Marco was going to explain what his function in the ghetto
- was.
- He was just in--
- work in the office for administration
- of Jewish the property taken by Germans.
- So he knows everything, what property belongs to whom.
- He remembers.
- He worked in such administration office
- for Jewish property was taken by Germans from Jewish people.
- I see.
- Could he point on the map where the [? platz ?] was.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- OK.
- [POLISH] Dluga.
- No, no, no Rogowska.
- Piekna, Dluga, Rogowska.
- No, no.
- The other way around--
- Piekna, Rogowska, Dluga.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- His office-- their office was at the Dluga Street.
- OK.
- [POLISH]
- But it was such building that one entrance
- from Jewish district and another entrance
- was from Polish district.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- But it was between--
- [POLISH]
- But it was between the two halves of the ghetto.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- So [POLISH] it was just-- it was in front of the synagogue.
- So his office was--
- He's pointing to the [POLISH] number 3
- on the map in Sokolow job site book.
- It was-- it was somewhere here.
- Was this a slaughterhouse at all or anything like that?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- Oh.
- According to him, slaughterhouse was at Magistracka Street.
- It was somewhere-- somewhere here.
- [POLISH]
- Where is the river?
- Where is the river here on this map?
- I can't see a river.
- [POLISH]
- Oh, there's a river?
- Oh, it is--
- "Cetrina."
- Cetynia.
- Cetynia, Cetynia.
- That's the name of the river?
- Yeah.
- Yes.
- It is the name of the--
- it is the name of the river.
- It's Cetynia.
- Cetynia, OK.
- Where is 6-- it's 6.
- One second.
- [POLISH] There's a bath.
- This is a bath house.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- She told that a slaughter house was the next to bath.
- The bath house, OK.
- OK.
- That's the bath house.
- According to him.
- [POLISH]
- OK.
- And do you do you recall from here where the Platner
- house was near here?
- [POLISH]
- OK.
- I can give you some names that might jog your memory.
- [POLISH]
- OK.
- Platner Don, Platner Aaron.
- Aaron.
- Platner Sara.
- Platner, Sara Platner, Aaron Platner.
- Hania.
- Hania Platner.
- Rachela.
- Rachela Platner.
- [POLISH]
- Zevulun.
- Zevulun Platner.
- Szimon.
- Szimon Platner.
- No.
- He doesn't remember.
- He doesn't remember.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- Zelig Morgenstern.
- Remember, we saw that in the book.
- Yes.
- So she's the daughter of Zelig Morgenstern.
- Or she's the granddaughter.
- Or his granddaughter.
- Granddaughter of Zelig Morgenstern.
- Morgenstern.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- The last rabbi of--
- [POLISH]
- OK.
- So the name of the granddaughter is Perla Neuman.
- Perla Neuman.
- And she comes from England?
- [POLISH]
- Mr.-- Miss [? Lowski. ?]
- 1918.
- Perla Neuman was born in 1918.
- [POLISH]
- 1918.
- Perla Neuman was born in 1918.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- What is this?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- It's a what?
- [POLISH]
- What is this?
- [POLISH]
- I will tell you because it is very--
- I'll just tell you the story in a minute.
- OK?
- You told me the story.
- All right.
- Just was taken to labor camp.
- Who was taken?
- Perla Neuman.
- Yes.
- To Szczeglacin, to Szczeglacin.
- That's the name of a labor camp.
- To labor camp.
- And close to Szczeglacin is a Korczew nad Bugiem.
- And she had a--
- What is this, a name of a town?
- Yes.
- And she pay a visit from Szczeglacin.
- Yes, from Szczeglacin to Korczew nad Bugiem.
- She pay visit to her friend.
- How could she get out of the labor camp to go to--
- It was probably this kind of camp where people were still--
- just she was-- had to make some job.
- And when she stayed a longer with her friend.
- And her friend told, stay for a night.
- And the next day, they learned that all these 400
- people from this labor camp was murdered by staff
- from Treblinka.
- And this way, Perla Neuman survived.
- Survived.
- Survived.
- And now she's telling about another woman, Golda Holberg.
- She was a manager.
- And she was one of his employees.
- Employees in the office?
- In the office, at the office.
- So there was the office of the Jewish property.
- Yes.
- And this lady worked--
- Golda worked for him in this office.
- And when he just hidden herself when people
- were deported to Treblinka.
- So he hid Golda Holberg.
- Yes.
- First he had-- she hide herself.
- And next, when people were deported,
- she secretly went to his house.
- And he hidden in his house, already after deportation.
- She hid in the--
- you understand.
- Golda Holberg.
- And where is she now, Golda Holberg?
- [POLISH] Golda Holberg?
- In United States.
- In United States.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH] Perla Neuman or Golda Holberg.
- So she doesn't know her?
- [POLISH]
- So these are all people that you helped to--
- Survivor.
- It is a survivor.
- It is his friend.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- Perla, Perla Neuman?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- Officially it was not allowed.
- But she had some connection.
- And it was extra things that she was
- allowed to visit [INAUDIBLE]
- So that was just--
- Perla Neuman, what was your connection with Perla Neuman?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH] the Golda Holberg?
- [POLISH]
- Now I [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- It was it was like that, that usually Jewish people ask
- him to arrange Polish papers.
- And the best idea to hide for Jewish people
- was not to stay in Poland but in Germany.
- So the Germans organized aktion to take Polish working power
- to Germany to work on farmhouses and factories.
- So they arrange Polish papers for Jewish people,
- and they send them to Germany.
- OK.
- Because the Germans thought that they got rid of all the Jews
- from Germany.
- So they wouldn't--
- Yes.
- So they were safe.
- They were safer in Germany than they were in Poland.
- In Poland because nobody searched for Jewish people
- already in Germany.
- In Germany-- because they got rid, so--
- He organized the Polish papers.
- And these Jewish people were sent--
- So you did it.
- So you did it secretly.
- Yes.
- Yes.
- Yes.
- Just people ask him.
- She told about visitors.
- Can you arrange for my niece Polish papers here?
- Can you arrange her deportation to Germany as a worker?
- Oh, as a worker.
- Worker.
- And he was able to--
- He arrange because he was the-- he had office, which
- was under German supervision.
- Oh, I see.
- Did he ever almost get caught by the Germans?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- The main chief was the German.
- Deputy chairman was German.
- And he was employed, employed, by Polish employed.
- There were some Jewish and Polish employees.
- But the Germans never suspected, and they never caught him?
- Yeah.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- All of them, they were friends.
- [POLISH]
- OK.
- So you go to--
- [POLISH]
- All these Jewish names what you see here,
- they were his friends from pre-war times.
- And he arranged their Polish papers
- and had to send some to Germany.
- So in other words, Perla Neuman, who went to this [PLACE NAME]..
- [POLISH]
- This was a labor camp in Germany for Polish workers.
- No.
- No.
- [CROSS TALK]
- It was an unusual story.
- She was taken to a labor camp to Szczeglacin.
- How did he help her to get there?
- OK, no.
- She was taken in spite of him.
- OK.
- So she had nothing to do with him.
- Nothing to do with [NON-ENGLISH]..
- And that she had made a friend.
- Made friends, she survived, and she came later to him.
- And she asked arrange her [INAUDIBLE]
- and send her to Germany.
- You know?
- Oh, later.
- Oh, I see.
- Later.
- Later.
- She already had one lucky time.
- Yes.
- She survived.
- She already helped people who were hidden.
- She didn't-- she'd hidden people themselves.
- Already people were hidden herself.
- OK.
- So she was hidden here, and then she got-- then
- he got her the papers.
- Oh.
- OK.
- Already it is easier because it was dangerous, very
- dangerous to hide people.
- Of course.
- It's better to work to arrange them Polish papers
- and send to Germany.
- I see.
- For slave work.
- I understand.
- That was much safer than in Treblinka.
- Than going to Treblinka.
- Of course.
- OK.
- And so-- So you managed to help 10 people, 20 people?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- What's that, the name?
- The name, the name of another woman.
- So there was Rachele, and then he
- arranged Perla Neuman, and Golda Holberg.
- Yeah.
- [POLISH]
- What were these names?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- Oh.
- Oh, yeah, I know.
- Because-- he was saying that just a woman from the country
- came to him.
- My daughter was ordered to go to Germany.
- And do you have a Jewish girl to send, the Jewish girl,
- in place of her.
- You know, Polish girl.
- Oh.
- It came order.
- Oh, so she didn't want--
- so the Polish girl could stay in Poland,
- so a Jewish girl could go instead.
- OK.
- You know.
- Because usually it was the order given
- by local German authority for Polish girls
- to go to work for Germany.
- So Polish families say, we keep--
- we give these papers of our daughters to Jewish girl.
- And we hide--
- You hide their own daughter till it's safe.
- Daughter.
- You understand.
- Yeah, I understand.
- Like a swap.
- Yeah.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH], change.
- Like a change, yeah.
- So actually, Polish come to him, and he
- sent, instead of Polish girl, he sent Jewish girls to German.
- OK.
- So, in other words--
- [POLISH]
- And give them Polish papers.
- Yes.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- These are other names?
- [POLISH] Perla Neuman [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH],, the real name of Jewish girl in Germany.
- But she was in Germany under the name of Anna Michal.
- OK.
- So this was a Jewish girl.
- And she was in Germany.
- False name.
- And as Anna Michal she corresponds to him.
- And all these Jewish girl writes the letters.
- They live here.
- And in Germany, and the Germans think it's a German--
- Polish girl writing back.
- And they correspond with him.
- So that's how you knew that they were--
- They knew the story.
- They knew what they did, what they did was they didn't.
- They know.
- They saw their fate.
- So Rachela-- [POLISH]
- As Anna Michal correspond with him from Germany.
- I see.
- Where is she now?
- Does she--
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- Now she's married.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- Oh.
- And now she didn't came back to his old name.
- As Anna Michal, she married a Pole
- from France who is called Paulo Stefan.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH] Anna Michal.
- Yes.
- I know.
- Even in America some--
- I know--
- That people did that.
- Some Jewish people, he didn't came back
- to their Jewish neighbors.
- They keep these false names from occupation time.
- It is I know even such stories.
- Paulo-- and they live in where?
- In France.
- He told me--
- [POLISH]
- Say that story again.
- He's now telling the story how--
- Half of Sokolow was the Jewish property.
- So after the war, after the war, some Jewish people
- come for short time and sell to local people.
- But one man, he was named Gutman,
- he came in the name of all Jews.
- And he had the papers from them.
- And he saw sold to local people half of Sokolow--
- one man.
- One man on behalf of the others.
- On behalf of other Jews who didn't come and never.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- He can't remember the lady with the wooden leg?
- I asked her for the lady with the wooden leg.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH] Rosenzweig [POLISH]
- How is the grandfather?
- Zayde.
- Zayde.
- Zayde.
- [POLISH]
- About 5,000 Jews in just--
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- German concentration--
- They put more people in the ghetto.
- So just in the ghetto was more than 5,000.
- Yes.
- Yes.
- They were taken from other places.
- Like in the surrounding area.
- [AUDIO OUT]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- Were you ever afraid that they would find you out,
- that you had given the papers to the--
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- All Jewish documents exist.
- [POLISH]
- Birth and death certificates.
- Sorry.
- They were where?
- Where are they now?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- Office-- register office for marriages and deaths.
- In Sokolow?
- In Sokolow, yeah.
- [POLISH]
- All the documents about death and birth
- for the Christian people were in the church.
- In the church, yes.
- And all documents for Jewish people was in a rabbi office.
- Yes.
- And where is that now?
- And all the documents of Christians
- were burned down because the parish house and--
- burned down.
- All documents about Jewish people
- survived and still exist.
- And where?
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- In [INAUDIBLE] office for marriages and deaths
- in Sokolow.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- And you can, if you know a name, first name, [INAUDIBLE],,
- of the Platner family, he give--
- he'll make the-- all these documents
- and send it to you [CROSS TALK]
- Oh, very good.
- [POLISH]
- Treblinka crematorium
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- The smell was so strong that in [NON-ENGLISH],,
- the people sometimes couldn't breathe.
- And even sometimes you could smell in--
- Sokolow.
- In Sokolow.
- In Sokolow.
- From the smell of--
- From Treblinka.
- It depends of wind.
- Wind.
- It depended of the wind.
- And they just-- they executed thousands of people
- just here, on Piekna Street.
- And she was not sure.
- According to him, some people were buried alive
- because they were not killed but wounded.
- And they were buried at that site on Piekna Street.
- Yeah.
- In this site.
- But a few months later, prisoners of Treblinka
- come and took all bodies to Treblinka and cremated.
- I see.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- I read in that paper that you have
- a copy of that, when the Jews found out that there was going
- to be roundups, some of them escaped to the forests
- nearby here.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- He's telling that it was a revolt in Treblinka.
- And some people from Treblinka escaped to forest here.
- He don't know if people escape--
- escape because the whole ghetto was surrounded by soldiers
- just before execution.
- I see.
- [POLISH]
- And they were rounded up into this square
- here, where we're standing now.
- [POLISH]
- And he is saying about this story
- that all people were killed.
- But usually they-- these guards was not
- Germans but soldiers from Latvia.
- Latvia.
- From Latvia.
- And he heard such stories that one girl escaped
- but she was caught by Latvian soldiers, raped,
- and for that he saved her life.
- He didn't kill her.
- He allowed her to escape.
- [POLISH]
- They remember after the war, this [CROSS TALK]
- [POLISH]
- And what-- who were the 1,000 people that they
- shot in Piekna Street?
- What was different about them?
- Why weren't they taken to Treblinka?
- Why did they shoot them on--
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- They started with the execution.
- And next, what's left, they're taken to Treblinka.
- So maybe they recognize that it is--
- Too hard, too difficult to shoot them all.
- To shoot them on the spot, and they take to Treblinka.
- But probably at the beginning, they
- are thinking about execution, to kill all people,
- all Jewish people in Sokolow.
- But finally, they decided to send the rest to Treblinka.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- He said they walk.
- They walk to Treblinka--
- under guarded groups taken--
- Only 30 kilometers to Treblinka.
- 30 kilometers.
- And not on the train.
- Not on the train.
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- [POLISH]
- Oh, no, it is--
- they-- no.
- They just, they head to railway station and next--
- They walked to the railway station and then-- and then--
- And then by train to Treblinka.
- I see.
- [POLISH]
- Oh, really, I can't translate anymore.
- OK.
Overview
- Interviewee
- Kazimierz Milobedzki
- Date
-
interview:
1994 April 21
Physical Details
- Language
- English
- Extent
-
1 sound cassette (90 min.).
Rights & Restrictions
- Conditions on Access
- There are no known restrictions on access to this material.
- Conditions on Use
- No restrictions on use
Keywords & Subjects
- Topical Term
- Holocaust, Jewish (1939-1945)--Personal narratives.
- Personal Name
- Milobedzki, Kazimierz--Interviews.
Administrative Notes
- Legal Status
- Permanent Collection
- Provenance
- The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum received the tapes of the interview from Kazimierz Milobedzki on November 16, 1994
- Special Collection
-
The Jeff and Toby Herr Oral History Archive
- Record last modified:
- 2023-11-16 08:13:26
- This page:
- https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn509296
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