- So we'll start to record.
- We're going to start all over now.
- I'm going to say, good morning, this is Barbara Kreines,
- and it's Wednesday, April 28, 1981.
- And I have the pleasure of speaking
- to Mr. Albert Geisel in his beautiful apartment in Roselawn
- on Section Road.
- And it is a beautiful apartment.
- Mr. Geisel, would you begin this morning
- by telling us a little bit about your birthplace,
- when you were born, and about your general family
- background in Germany?
- I am Albert Geisel.
- I was born May 18, 1907 in Rheinbach near Bonn
- as a son of Hermann and Sophie Geisel.
- I had two older sisters and one younger brother.
- When I was six years old, I attended a Catholic partial
- school to my 13th year when I graduated.
- After that I attended for three years what would
- you call a trade school.
- And I entered the business of my father.
- He was-- we had a meat market and were cattle dealers.
- In 1913, when, I was attending school,
- we had a big occasion in our town.
- The kaiser, or rather, the emperor, was passing our town,
- and all schoolchildren were lining up the streets.
- Then in 1914, when World War number one started,
- I still remember very well as soldiers from all
- over were quartered in private houses.
- They came with horses and everything.
- Everything went to the west into France--
- first into Belgium.
- My mother, who had four brothers, who
- were living near the Belgian border,
- about 30, 32 miles where we were living,
- who had all also a meat market, they had to close--
- they had to close their businesses when they all
- were inducted in the army.
- My youngest uncle, Uncle Karl, he already
- was wounded in Belgium.
- But he was lucky.
- He was transferred back into Germany
- and stayed all during the war in Berlin.
- They all advanced to corporal, sergeant, and second lieutenant.
- The second lieutenant, my Uncle Alex, and when the Germans--
- Germany was defeated in the war, he rode back on his horse
- and was lucky.
- And a shell did strike his cap, but he was not wounded.
- But might I go back?
- In December 1916, my father was inducted in the army also.
- He was one of the oldest soldiers.
- He was born in October '69.
- If he had born in August '69, he had not been inducted anymore.
- He had his basic training in Koblenz am Rhein.
- And on one day, he had a few days' leave,
- but then through an informers for bad weather,
- he was ordered back to his unit, and was all by himself
- back out to France without any notice.
- And he had really a rough time.
- But at that time, as I say before, we were four children.
- My mother was all by herself with the four children.
- I never will forget.
- I was 10 years old when I slaughtered the first calf.
- My older sister was four years older than I am.
- She helped my mother cutting up meat.
- But the hardship was really great.
- My mother, who weighed 180 pounds,
- she went down to 125 pounds.
- But then at the end--
- no, I guess it was at the beginning of April 18, 1918,
- my father got his discharge due to his age.
- Going a little back about our family history,
- we were for generation and generation in the same locality.
- My mother-- or better, my mother's mother, my grandmother,
- she came from Godesburg, also near Bonn.
- My father's mother, she came from Unkel am Rhein,
- a city near Remagen.
- So coming back to my private life, as I grew older
- grew older our community consisted of about 99%
- of people of the Catholic faith.
- And I had only Catholic friends, hardly, any connections
- with Jews.
- And socially, Sundays, we went to walks in the park
- or went for playing cards in the house or maybe
- in a saloon for an hour or two.
- And after that, we attended our business.
- The farmers had to attend the cattle.
- We had maybe cattle.
- I attend cattle.
- And during the week, we had our house there.
- We had our business.
- We had land.
- We had farm.
- We had-- we were very well-to-do people.
- And yet you knew you were Jewish.
- And how did you express that Jewishness?
- Was there any Jewish community at all?
- Oh, yes.
- We had about-- we had our synagogues there.
- We had about 12 Jewish families in our community.
- And in the surrounding villages, there were maybe--
- I mean, the next villages were maybe three miles apart,
- and they had maybe three or four Jewish families.
- And very many, they attended the service in Rheinbach,
- in our community.
- It was Orthodox, I guess?
- What kind of a-- do you remember?
- And who conducted it?
- There wasn't a rabbi there?
- There was no rabbi, but yes, you could say Orthodox
- because at that time we were eating kosher meat.
- My dad was a chauffeur.
- And so there were other people.
- But as soon the Nazis came and they took the knives away,
- naturally we ate all meat which was cattle,
- from cattle which were not killed kosher, maybe
- under the circumstances.
- How was the-- how large was the community itself?
- About 5,000 population.
- But in our community, as I said before, we had a meat market,
- and there were about 10 meat markets.
- But at the beginning, the Jews, they
- were selling only beef or lamb, no pork.
- But later when I grew older, we had everything.
- We slaughtered pigs and everything.
- But my dad was so conscientious what quality meat
- he was handling.
- He had only the best, and I guess
- there was nobody in town who didn't
- buy the meat in our place.
- Also, there were 10 competitors.
- And we had--
- So socially or a business-like, we didn't any--
- it didn't feel any different.
- But there were certain people, also
- they were dealing with us business, but business concern.
- But socially, they looked a little down on us.
- For instance, when we became an age where we learned dancing,
- the teacher came.
- And on one side there were the girls and on one side the men.
- For instance, when my sisters were in that position,
- there were certain big farmers sons
- who hesitated to dance with.
- But those occasions, they were in the minority.
- I mean, it doesn't appear very often.
- The boys would get bar mitzvah?
- Oh, yes.
- Oh, yes.
- My bar mitzvah was as big as a wedding.
- I mean, big attendance and everything.
- Oh, yes.
- And--
- It sounds like there was a lot of tolerance
- and was very tolerant of one another's beliefs.
- So in other words, when my dad came back from the army,
- we had inflation.
- We got really poor.
- We had all to start from the beginning.
- But I was pretty much pushing on.
- I was more or less running the show,
- and everything was developing to our satisfaction.
- Then when the war--
- when Hitler came to power, as I mentioned before,
- socially we had nothing to worry.
- And we were financially so well off
- that we didn't worry because we thought,
- how many people are worse off than we are and we never
- had done anything wrong as far as having a parking ticket,
- any violations.
- And also there were propaganda that people
- shouldn't deal with Jews, but still the farmers dealt with us.
- Belonged to the party or not to the party,
- they were dealing with us.
- Also they were threatened.
- The fact wouldn't even the bishop [GERMAN] I mean,
- the Catholic higher priest, they were denounced openly
- that they were dealing still with the Jews.
- Because he was proud that he was,
- mentioned that he was dealing with us.
- But nevertheless, that went on and on and on.
- Finally, everything was rationed,
- and a Nazi was put in charge to the market in Bonn.
- From there, later on were the cattle that distribute.
- And the classification came, a, b, c, d,
- that means quality-wise.
- And naturally, the Jews couldn't get the best quality.
- They gave them cattle which couldn't even walk anymore.
- But nevertheless, I had good friends
- to whom I gave that kind of meat what I used to produce sausage.
- And they had more the best quality
- meat which they had no use for.
- So they were astonished as I still could keep up my trade
- and had the best meat to sell.
- Because I got it from the competition who
- had no use for it, and I didn't have
- to sell the poor quality meat because I had an outlet for it.
- Then came with hogs.
- They didn't get any.
- My sister, who was not Jewish-looking whatsoever,
- she went in the office of that so-called Nazi,
- and he said, sure, you get a hog.
- Yeah.
- Somebody mentioned Jew.
- No, you are not Jewish.
- So for one week that helped.
- She got a hog.
- But the next time, it was out.
- So making the story short, in 1938,
- I was ordered to the big office in Bonn when I was asked,
- I should give up my trade.
- But in the meantime, there was not much trade anymore.
- I mean, just that you had the permission.
- And I said to that man, I did nothing wrong,
- and I am not going to give it up.
- So the man said-- was a very nice man.
- He said, now, listen.
- You know they don't want that you have it.
- If we let you have your trade, you
- give it up the first of the year voluntarily.
- I said that is a deal.
- Because I mean, I only want to show
- I had not done nothing wrong.
- But in the meantime, my brother had emigrated to New York,
- to America.
- And we were told that a very distant relative--
- Was your brother in the business with you?
- A very distant relative who was in America also
- with his sister when his parents were living in Dusseldorf.
- They were leaving Germany, and at that time
- I was asked to visit them in order
- to give them some messages to my brother
- or to hear something, news about my brother
- and the life in America.
- And I had a fairly new car.
- On Wednesday, I had the car outside
- and didn't want to use it anymore.
- I want to leave it clean to travel to Dusseldorf, which was
- about 90 miles from Rheinbach.
- And on a Thursday morning, I take my bike
- and go to two neighboring villages.
- The first one was Miel and then Ludendorf.
- And that was a little after noon time.
- I left that village and drove with one hand on my bike.
- With the other hand, I was eating a sandwich.
- And then came opposite towards me
- on a bike one of a bigger richer farmer, wealthy farmers
- from that village.
- And he goes off the bike and he asked, Geisel,
- where are you going?
- I ask why?
- Yeah, I just come from Rheinbach.
- They arrested all Jews there, including your dad
- and your fat mayor, an SA, was watching how
- they tear the synagogue down.
- Now, one can imagine I couldn't eat my sandwich anymore.
- I turned around and went back in that village
- and went to a customer.
- And I said Mrs. [? Schacher, ?] that Peter Fuchs ] just comes
- and tells me that and that.
- So she said to one of her sons-- those people had two sons--
- Henry, you get your bike and you go to Rheinbach
- and find out what is what.
- And I was sitting there and wait.
- How long was the distance?
- About four miles.
- And after two hours, that fellow comes back and says,
- not looking in my face anymore, I couldn't reach your people.
- I went to your neighbor, who was a farmer, and through the wall
- I talked to your sister and said--
- and they told me that your dad is arrested,
- and if you don't come home, they will arrest your mother
- and your sister also.
- So that fellow's mother said, Albert, what can you do?
- You have to go home, and go from that village Ludendorf
- in order to get to Rheinbach, I had
- to pass Oberdrees, another village.
- And there were two farmers, women, making the expression,
- oh, there is still one coming.
- So in the end of that village, a custom of ours,
- we had a saloon there.
- I go in there, and I said, Frau [? Merber, ?] I use your phone.
- I didn't ask for an answer.
- I go and called my sister.
- And she said, Albert, you better be here by then and then.
- Otherwise, they will get me and mother too.
- In the outskirts of Rheinbach, there
- was the newest and biggest penitentiary of Prussia
- with all the houses where the guards were living.
- Was almost a village by itself.
- But in the outskirts there, my sister, another distant cousin
- came already, expecting me and informed me what is going on.
- And in order to go out to our house,
- we had to pass the main street.
- I was wearing long brown boots like the SA--
- SA was wearing.
- And I came home.
- My mother had cooked some pea soup she wants to give me,
- but I wasn't able to eat pea soup.
- So my sister accompanied me, and we went to the courthouse.
- And as I said, a small community, everything, everybody
- knows each other.
- And the caretaker of the courthouse, a real smart party
- man, addressed me only Mr. Geisel, Mr. Geisel.
- I had taken a prayer book along.
- And he said to the fellow, take some sheets for Mr. Geisel
- and take some books to read for Mr. Geisel.
- And I was put in a cell by myself.
- And after a few hours, I hear slamming of doors.
- And finally, my cell door was opened.
- And party people from Bonn came and asked, what is your name?
- What was your occupation?
- My occupation is cattle dealer because I still
- had the permission.
- So they left me.
- Was on a Thursday.
- But may I interrupt you?
- All this happened-- by coincidence,
- I had not listened to the radio, and I
- didn't know what had happened in Paris when that so-called Rath
- was murdered.
- And that was the reason they took all those actions
- against the Jews.
- But that evening, my dad was released because nobody should
- be arrested over 60 years old.
- My dad was past 60 years old.
- They let him go.
- The next Friday before lunch, we were called out.
- There was a big commotion at the courthouse,
- and everybody was assembled.
- My sister's there with a packed suitcase for me and a truck
- waiting for us.
- And we all loaded on that truck and driven through the city,
- then out of the city.
- We didn't know what our destination was,
- but then we were brought to the penitentiary in Brauweiler.
- That was near Cologne.
- That was on a Friday.
- Then I was put together in a cell.
- There were already three more people,
- one from Bonn, one young fellow from Brühl--
- That's all close by--
- 16 years old.
- And so every day for a short time we were let out.
- And if I remember well, on a Monday morning,
- it was about 1:30 in the morning, we were called out.
- The first time that I saw floodlights,
- I mean it was in the middle of the night was daylight.
- And we were lined up and escorted
- from the police in Cologne.
- Cologne was the biggest city in the Rhineland.
- And they called the police a Schupo.
- They were escorting us on both sides,
- and we were marched to the railroad station in Brauweiler.
- And at that time, in Germany, the railroad
- had first, second, third, and fourth class.
- First and second class were nice upholstered cars.
- The third class was cars with small compartments
- with two wooden benches, which hold maybe eight people.
- And the fourth class were huge cars
- which had wooden benches in the middle and aisle.
- And with us was a distant cousin of ours.
- He had been a prisoner of war in the First World War
- when he said, keep your nose back, keep your nose back.
- So those people on that railroad station,
- they were forced in those cars that they couldn't move anymore.
- And finally as that cousin said, keep your nose back,
- there were only 14 people left.
- So we came in that car.
- We had plenty of room to sit and to stretch
- and were accompanied with those Schupos.
- I wanted to have conversation with them because I
- knew some people in the Schupo.
- And they said, yeah, we are not supposed to talk to you.
- So we left then that Brauweiler, the next big station
- what we passed.
- Can I interrupt you?
- Who was-- I'm a little confused.
- Just you went?
- Not the rest of your family?
- Just for my family?
- Yeah, only one. yes, yes, yes, yes.
- There was only my parents and my sister with her two boys
- left and myself.
- But the rest of the men from our community.
- And when we pass--
- when we passed Cologne, our train
- consisted of about 600 people.
- From Cologne, we went up along the river Rhine to Koblenz.
- There were some more cars connected then.
- We were not 600 people--
- 1,200 people.
- And all big railway station which
- we were passing, through the loudspeaker
- came, special train number so and so and so and so.
- And I myself had no idea where we were going.
- And I don't recall anymore if we traveled for a couple of days,
- but those Schupos, there were very decent.
- And those big railroad stations where
- we had to stop, with our money they went to the commission
- stands and got some chocolate or a cup of coffee or something.
- So finally it was at night.
- We came to a railroad station.
- And our Schupo escorts left with the words "you will think of us
- very often."
- In the same moment from one side of the train,
- SS came with machine guns, came in
- on one side on the left on the other side with a warning,
- nobody goes on a door, nobody goes on a window.
- You will be shot.
- So we're sitting quietly.
- And then we heard slamming of doors.
- And finally, our door were opened.
- And when we got out after being for a few days or nights
- in there, and it was November, cold,
- misty winter night, we were sweating and shivering
- when we came in that cold.
- We were lined up.
- On another platform was a whole train with cattle cars.
- And then we were marched with that cattle car, myself with one
- hand my suitcase.
- Then that cattle car was opened.
- Get in that car.
- And at that time, I was pretty much alert.
- I didn't use the steps on that car.
- There were two steps on that car.
- With one hand, a handle on that car, with the other step
- I was in that car.
- But the one who wasn't as fast right with the machine gun
- butt over them.
- Now, as I said, we were only 14 to 16 people.
- The door was closed after that.
- But after a few minutes, that door was open.
- Some more people came in.
- Again, beating with us because those people
- were not quite as alert and as fast.
- And--
- So that was repeated and repeated.
- But nobody could move anymore.
- Then the door still was opened up.
- And the people were-- it was impossible, impossible.
- Nevertheless, like you load sheep in a car,
- crush them in there.
- Then the people couldn't breathe.
- I was lucky.
- I was fairly tall and could breathe over
- the head of the other people.
- And then people in the corner of those cars were air shafts.
- They wanted to open them up.
- Then they shout, we shoot if you don't stay away from that.
- All right.
- After a short time, we heard a whistle and the locomotive
- pulled on.
- But only a few yards in order to stop and go
- backwards only to shake us up.
- So I don't know how long, 15 minutes, 20 minutes that
- went on.
- And then we stood.
- But I must say, that railroad station
- was Munich where we were.
- And then after that short trip, get out, very careful,
- very careful.
- Because in the meantime, from that mist that
- was kind of ice slippery, then we
- were lined up again to four people.
- And then we were in Dachau.
- Then the commands.
- One, two, three, forward, march.
- Double time, stop, double time.
- And I was real-- like a machine.
- But those people who were maybe physically
- were not alert as much, with those machine gun
- butts, bing, bing, bing.
- So that was only a small distance.
- I don't know how many thousand people were assembled,
- and then some SS big shots from SS was standing there
- in their long woolen coat and big boots and held a speech.
- Then we were marched between barracks.
- We have to throw our suitcases away.
- Then those barracks, there was--
- when you entered those barracks, to the left and right
- was a room.
- And as I said, that distant cousin of ours again,
- keep your nose back, keep your nose back.
- Those ones who went in first, there
- was a rafter when you go in there,
- but the lid was taken off so there was a hole.
- and people who were not alert and they tripped over that hole.
- But on left and right were standing
- one of those first inmates of the prison
- camp, those former communists.
- They were standing in there and beating the people from the left
- to the right when they were entering those Rooms then
- came shout again from inside, impossible with this filth.
- We can't breathe anymore.
- And there again we were only less than 20 people left.
- We were left then in that other empty room all by ourselves.
- And we were then lined up, and then came an SS
- and started on first, what was your occupation?
- I was a banker in Cologne.
- Where you got those ribbons from?
- There were rewards what I got in World War number one
- to save 650 people's lives to live--
- when we were stationed in Italy.
- When I was-- listen, a mine was being laid or something.
- So then that man was then really impressed.
- So that particular man said, may I ask for some water for myself
- and for my comrades here?
- You get water.
- Then in a few minutes, they came with a bucket
- with water what was handed from one to the other.
- And I can assure you, champagne can't taste as good
- as that water tasted.
- Then the floor was covered with straw.
- We had to lay down.
- We couldn't stand up.
- We had to lay down.
- Then they came around and throw everybody
- a piece of dry rye bread.
- But I hadn't eaten for a couple of days.
- Nobody was able to swallow that bread because it didn't go down
- the throat.
- And I myself, I kept myself a little fresh
- as my sister had given me in my suitcase quite a bit
- a peppermint along.
- And so for myself and the others I distributed peppermint.
- So after that first night, we had to fall out again
- and picked up our suitcases.
- And then we were processed.
- But that went so slow, so slow.
- In the meantime, one SS came after the other.
- What was your occupation and this and this and that?
- But finally, it became my turn.
- On a table was sitting an SS and a former communist,
- a political prisoner as his assistant.
- I had to empty my suitcase.
- I had there quite a number of stockings, which my mother had
- knitted, and three, four, five shirts, and had a prayer book.
- And as soon he saw that, he threw that away.
- And then he had a piece of paper.
- He said, what is that kind of Jewish writing?
- I said, that is a diploma what my great-grandfather
- got when he served in the army from 1894 to 1897 in [GERMAN].
- Then he said to that helper, put it together with values.
- Then I had 40 marks in money along.
- And due to that, I was the only one who could keep the money.
- Everybody had every penny taken away.
- From there, we got all--
- the barber had our hair taken off.
- They were out of prison garb, so we could
- keep our clothes, our suits.
- But I had to give up my boots.
- I got shoes issued.
- From there we went in a bathroom with all kinds of showers,
- all in tile, wonderful.
- And coming under that shower, that gave you new life.
- Wonderful.
- And lucky as I was again, as soon
- as [INAUDIBLE] was through, then we
- had to go, nude as we were, to a row of doctors
- to become examined.
- But as soon I was through, SS came.
- And they took that movable shower head,
- and the people were asked, come over here.
- Open your mouth.
- Say ah.
- And they put that water in their mouth,
- and the people got to the floor.
- The fact, I know quite a few one,
- horse dealer from Euskirchen, nearby city, and that
- did him bum on the floor.
- I know one cattle dealer, he had a crippled leg.
- He had to wear on his shoes high heels.
- Him, men more than six feet tall, open your mouth, eh!
- Until they fell to the floor.
- All right.
- From there, we came then to our assigned barracks.
- I was in block 26 room one.
- And the funniest part what was, there
- was one fellow, Walter [? Berns ?] from Cologne.
- We left Germany over from Holland to England
- where I had to stay, oh, for a year
- before I am able to come to America.
- And that's the same Walter [? Berns. ?]
- He was assigned to the same barracks where I was.
- His father, he was in block 28, the next block.
- And the other people from my hometown, they weren't block 28.
- But then it happened, they had a PX.
- Every day, we could make a list where
- somebody was sent to buy food for us,
- like bread or dairy butter, what you were not even able to buy
- on the outside anymore.
- And we were so surprised.
- And so everybody, maybe some acquaintance of mine,
- for 14, 16 people were gathering around me,
- and I helped them through.
- Everybody-- I felt sorry for the others
- had to look on because you could take care of dozens
- but not of hundreds.
- But after a few days, that was interrupted, that we
- couldn't buy-- only could buy certain things.
- But then after being there, you could write home for money,
- and they could send you, if I recall
- right, every two weeks $15.
- But anyhow, being in that barracks, after two days,
- we were called to give our clothes up.
- In the meantime, they had enough prison clothes again.
- It was the blue and white stripes, just thin linen.
- But at that time when I went there,
- and I had only a few pennies with me,
- I said to that political prisoner,
- let me get out my suitcase.
- And I gave him those few pennies and--
- but find your suitcase and hundreds of suitcases.
- And he was anxious himself, but I made it.
- When I took three or four pairs of socks out or my shirts out,
- when I came back to the barracks,
- and that wearing one shirt, I wore five shirts.
- I was out already before they were able to.
- And then from other times, we had to go.
- You had your picture taken.
- You had to sit in a chair.
- And as soon that picture was taken, if you were not alert
- and were out of that chair, they pushed a button and a needle
- came out where you were sitting.
- But as I said we were marching.
- And I was fairly tall, and I was pretty much in front.
- And our political prisoners were our direct guards.
- And I heard a voice, don't fall asleep in front.
- But I never was expecting that he was referring to me.
- All of a sudden, I was hit on my behind
- that I couldn't stand the pain.
- And I can assure you, for more than a half
- a year when I was laying in bed and was shifting from one side,
- I had to go on my hands not that I was able
- but that was only a minor infliction.
- The fact, some other time we were marching.
- We would halt. And one other SS comes.
- We looked at each other, like a sudden,
- he tells me, what, did you try to hit me?
- Just provocation.
- And then with his gloved hand, he hit me in the face.
- But it was more aggravating than harmful.
- That was, thanks God, the only experience what I had.
- So I was-- in the meantime, that was a daily routine.
- As I said, we had to go in the morning or in the evening.
- One poor fellow, he was carrying from his other people
- only sheet thrown him.
- Only a skeleton, and one day he was dead anyhow.
- I mean, it was nothing left of him.
- But one episode, as I was a block 26 room one,
- and in room two, one of political prisoners,
- they must have beaten him half crazy,
- was now the boss in that room two.
- And one day he comes in our ROOM and there
- was a young fellow, an athlete, more than six feet tall.
- And he made a remark, all the equipment
- here is only crap anyhow.
- He was referring to the stonework.
- What did you say?
- That's all crap what you got here.
- And that political prisoner, small guy,
- he could hardly reach him, hit that guy left and right
- in the face.
- What did you say about it this?
- It's all crap what you got here.
- Very proud young fellow.
- And he said, what did you say?
- And he kept on hitting him and hitting him only
- in the face and mouth.
- And finally the blood comes out in his mouth and his nose.
- And we were begging that guy say every nice number one.
- And finally he said, everything.
- So then he let him go.
- So another time, we were all assembled out there.
- Those big SS there, they called names.
- And there come some poor old Jewish people
- in their prison dress.
- And what is your name?
- So on.
- Now, in order to make it short, they
- call out maybe a dozen people.
- Look at them.
- In other words, what creatures.
- They represent seven million marks.
- You know, former big shots in big business and so on.
- Then there always were informers.
- As I said, I was lucky and wore my warm underwear.
- And other people, there were people from Austria,
- from South Germany.
- They were arrested at their job, off the street.
- Some, they were doing road work, construction work.
- They had nothing.
- Just when somebody must have told them,
- they had under their prison clothes
- that linen clothes themselves, blocked up with newspapers.
- Paper holds warmth.
- And somebody had informed about that.
- So when we were all appealed on a big place,
- you had to put it all there.
- And afterwards, they had to also clean it up.
- So those people were later on freezing to death.
- Well, in the meantime comes Christmas.
- Or I may interrupt myself again.
- We was were so hungry, you pick up
- your Food there was in a corner like you put potatoes
- for the pigs.
- We could pick up a potato or two but you were eating them
- with the peeling as they were.
- There were herrings.
- They were not cleaned.
- You ate them head and tail and everything.
- Even if you were thirsty like the dickens afterwards.
- So in the meantime, Christmas came along
- and the first time we had a good meal.
- We had soup meat and soup that tastes like a home-cooked meal.
- We felt wonderful.
- The following day, we had just the leftover
- but still it tasted good.
- Then the 28th of December, my name was called.
- And all those people whose names were called
- were processed and could be discharged.
- But where we were standing there,
- you had to go before the doctors again.
- And those who were physically not fit.
- The fact, there was one fellow, Alfred [? Berney ?] from Norway
- he was all the time he couldn't wear shoes.
- He was walking on boards.
- He had his hands always in sleeves.
- They were full of pus, all infected.
- And his name was called, but he didn't get his discharge
- because the outside world shouldn't
- see in what conditions we were.
- So I guess it was in the afternoon
- before we were processed.
- We came in a train, a warm train, a short ride.
- 10 minutes, 15 minutes, we came to the railroad
- station in Munich where a Jewish committee took over.
- And then we got our tickets on the train.
- And naturally, before I left, I gave all my shirts
- to the people who were left.
- And I looked funny because I had a shirt.
- No collar and tie with my bare head.
- But we're able to travel with other civilians in the train.
- So the second day in the morning at 8:30, I arrived in Bonn.
- We had to change trains.
- But from the railroad station, I called home
- that I would come with a train so and so.
- And I came then home.
- That was about the 28th, 29th of December 30, 1918--
- 1938.
- But going back, as I said, I had two sisters.
- They were married in Mosbach, Baden.
- And they had applied for quota to emigrate to United States.
- And one of my visits in Mosbach.
- They had to do something in the American consulate in Stuttgart.
- And they asked me to come along, I should register too.
- And I was laughing, at that time it was not
- right to emigrate because there was--
- I liked it too much where I was.
- And so I got the quota number 10,000 and something.
- And actually when I came back from that visit home,
- my sister at home said, yeah, you think only of yourself.
- Why didn't you take a quota number for us too?
- But then they made arrangements from home.
- And in the meantime, they got already the quota number 25,000
- and something.
- What's a quota number?
- Well, that many people can emigrate.
- You see at that time only 2,000 to 3,000 people a year were
- allowed to emigrate.
- And at that time, while I was in Dachau, and the reason
- that I got my discharge first, those getting the discharge who
- had been veterans of World War number one,
- and they asked us first, while I was in concentration lager,
- they had to give up our car.
- But then they want to sell all our possessions, house and land.
- And my sister claimed we can do nothing.
- My brother took care of all financial things.
- We can do nothing without him.
- And she went several times to the Gestapo
- in Bonn-- in Cologne.
- And as I said, she was--
- as she didn't look Jewish, she was always fairly well accepted.
- And finally, due to that, I got my discharge.
- But then I got on a [GERMAN] visa.
- That means I had no permit to work,
- that I could emigrate to England in order
- to wait for my quota number.
- So in March '39, I left Germany, went to England,
- hardly speaking the language.
- And from Harwich, the port city of England,
- we left from Hook of Holland, the port city in Holland.
- When they arrived in Harwich, England, the port city,
- and there was with a train to London.
- There was somebody from the Jewish committee--
- that was at that time the Bloomsbury House--
- who led us to the Bloomsbury House.
- And it happened at the Bloomsbury House,
- the lady in charge, very, very essential lady, Mrs. Schwab,
- and a fellow from the nearby village from us
- was the chauffeur of that lady.
- And while waiting, waiting, waiting
- to be processed from that committee, what happened to me,
- I was told, why don't you go and make
- your financial arrangements?
- Because I had money sent over from the United States
- to the Chase Manhattan Bank branch of London.
- When I came there, huge room, people all like aristocrats,
- and me not speaking English.
- And they said, yeah, what kind of reference you got?
- I said, reference?
- I got a brother there, and I got my dad's cousin there.
- I don't know anybody in America.
- I mean, as good as I acquit myself.
- Yeah, the reason that we asked for reference,
- we don't want any people who have connections
- with Al Capone as customers.
- But OK, we take your money.
- So they gave me a checkbook.
- In the meantime, I come back to that Bloomsbury House,
- and that fellow whom we know, he said,
- you take the subway, to Belsize Park Gardens.
- There is a rooming house where my parents lived too
- when they came here.
- But my English was so good.
- I went to that station.
- I said, I want a ticket for Belsize Park.
- [LAUGHS] Because I didn't know.
- But anyhow, I made it there.
- And so every--
- I was then able to attend every day a class to learn English.
- But my main reason was to find ways to get my parents
- and sister with her two boys out and thinking
- that the acquaintance of ours with the chauffeur of Mrs.
- Schwab, had a step ahead when he told me, oh, it's just a word.
- That's nothing.
- But there was no progress and no progress.
- I am not ashamed to say I was laying
- in bed, crying how helpless I was, and not able to work.
- I became just more desperate and desperate.
- And that man himself, I mean, most likely
- he talked bigger than he was.
- But after a few months, he asked me
- to come in and see Mrs. Schwab.
- I go in that Mrs. Schwab, and I told her the situation.
- She said, how much money you got?
- I said, yeah, my parents so and so.
- Yeah, can you spare 100 pounds or what it was?
- Or $100?
- For your nephews?
- And said fine.
- I was with that lady not two minutes.
- I was referred to room so-and-so.
- And when I came, I come from Mrs. Schwab.
- Every was on the right feet.
- And in less than five minutes, there was the permission
- that my parents could come, my sister
- comes on a domestic permit to take care of my parents.
- And the children come on a children's permit.
- So right away, the permit was there.
- I wonder why it worked so quickly.
- Then they were talking, there will be the war.
- And if I recall right, the war was already
- declared on a Saturday.
- I got a call from home.
- My sister is at the telephone, and she said,
- we are leaving today.
- We are tomorrow morning in London on Victoria station.
- And as I said, I was at that rooming house.
- And everybody looked so pity for me.
- There was already war, and they said we're coming.
- The next morning, I go to the Victoria station,
- and the train comes.
- I mean I had, in the meantime that I had left in March,
- and that was in August.
- And then I see my parents on the [? boats. ?] And I took a taxi
- and went to the boarding house.
- And then everybody said, yeah, Geisel, I will tell you,
- we never believed that your parents still gotten out,
- and they were still lucky on the border.
- That was the last train for Germany--
- was leaving Germany.
- And they kept my father back, and the others
- were already in the train and the whistle blow already.
- And then finally they let my father go too.
- And so they arrived and then we went to the boarding house.
- And we stayed in there a short while.
- And the English people, they had vacated their houses
- and went to the country.
- So there were apartments advertised, houses advertised.
- And I rented a house on Selborne Gardens.
- And the fact, Then in May 4--
- march '40 I got--
- my quota was called.
- I went to the American consulate and got my visa.
- Then most of the people from my boarding house
- were living at the same place.
- In my early talk, that Alfred [? Berns, ?]
- whom I never had seen any more in England,
- came on the same train on the same boat,
- went with me together again to America.
- Then I left my parents and sister in England.
- And I left.
- And when we came, our ship should go from Liverpool,
- but we were delayed due to the German u-boats
- and stayed overnight in a hotel.
- Then we left with the SS Georgic, which
- was later torpedoed and sunk.
- But he was one of the biggest boats what the Cunard Line had.
- And I must say, the first evening,
- that meal was so wonderful, tasted so good and everybody--
- The next morning, I got up, had wonderful breakfast.
- But I was wondering.
- The dining room was almost empty and the day before was crowded.
- So I went up to the upper deck.
- And there was a man who had been always so friendly,
- but he was standing on the railing of the boat
- relieving himself.
- But I was laughing.
- That sea was so stormy.
- I went then on the upper deck, on a small stairs up.
- But everything was shaking, so I didn't stay.
- Only stand up up there only for a few minutes.
- And I went down there, but I was hardly down.
- I was in a bad--
- bad shape myself.
- I made it to the bathroom, which was crowded.
- Then I must say, I got so sick.
- I guess it took nine days to come over.
- I didn't leave my berth until the day
- before we hit the United States.
- And so I arrived in the United States.
- My sister in New York waited for me.
- My brother, who was in Chicago, but I
- intended to stay a week in New York.
- I met some acquaintances in New York.
- They didn't let me feel easy.
- They said, if they offer you a job for $10 a week,
- grab it with both hands.
- But if they offer you a job for $18,
- expect the week after you are laid off.
- They don't keep you.
- So I wasn't feeling too good.
- After a week, with the bus I traveled from New York
- to Chicago.
- Stayed there with my brother.
- It was distant cousins of ours.
- The fact, their father was a cousin of our father, who
- had come to this country when he was 10 years old,
- who was living in Chicago.
- And those girls, naturally they were American born.
- They invited me for supper, and they wanted to give me a treat
- and serve me corn on the cob.
- I said no, we feed that to pigs where I come from.
- You can eat that.
- [LAUGHTER]
- And so the first thing was going hunting
- for an apartment, my brother and myself,
- finding one in an apartment building,
- furnished apartment, daily maid service, $40 a month.
- Then with my uncle was very well known in the business world.
- Me, a meat man, learned meat man.
- He sent me all to the meat packing
- houses up to Armour Company.
- But as I said, I have left Germany
- like a lord, dressed with the best clothes from head to feet.
- So when I first went to Armour Company,
- they had every day where they were showing the place
- but the tour was over.
- But when they saw me, over loudspeaker,
- there's somebody wants to see, inspect--
- they thought a visitor from the old country
- gave me a special tour just by myself to the place.
- So I saw the process of a packing house,
- from slaughtering the cattle until the process when they were
- sold the butter and cheese.
- And when I saw the process, my heart fell to my feet
- that I should work under those conditions.
- But nevertheless, a higher up gentlemen
- who knew my Uncle Charlie, my dad's cousin,
- they had a nice talk to me.
- All his encouragement was, yeah, leave your address
- and give your--
- make an application with the secretary.
- That was it.
- Then I went to a big place.
- They had all the hotel supplies, [? Selfour ?] Brothers.
- When I came there, I was led in the office.
- I told them that you fell down.
- I just come from Germany.
- I was reception.
- They want to know about the conditions
- there every night when I was through.
- Yeah, right now this is very slow
- but leave your address so and so.
- I was pretty much discouraged.
- That I was-- when I left England,
- there were people in our boarding house.
- Go and say hello.
- We have nephews in Chicago.
- And I go to those people.
- In the meantime, they were cattle dealers.
- And I said, your uncle's son says hello.
- Yeah, you say you go tomorrow morning on 46th on Halstead.
- Hygrade is opening a new plant there.
- You see there for this work.
- I take the L and go in that--
- go there, and I see there the first time a huge trailer
- unloading all of the beef.
- And I was scared to open my mouth.
- And I'm standing there and until it was all unloaded.
- And I see a guy who is scaling that.
- And I go to him and I said, listen, Mr. Worth sent me here.
- Maybe you have work for a butcher.
- That man answered not one word.
- With one hand, he opened the cooler door,
- and he called in that cooler, Stanley, here
- is a fellow who claims to be a butcher.
- Give him a hook and a knife.
- And I was standing there in my best clothes.
- And so he gives me a hook and a knife.
- They came some [? Bilko ?] customers who talked German.
- They felt very, very sorry for me.
- They want to be helpful even that.
- But they let me do piecework.
- At that time, I was a greenhorn.
- Everybody was taking advantage of me.
- Well, I worked in that place for three days.
- And after three days, I had earned $5.04.
- But in the meantime, I had made an application
- at the packing of Oscar Mayer.
- And the second week, I worked there again and made $5.48.
- I was afraid when I come home I see in the mailbox
- a notice from Oscar Mayer, I would
- like to see you at your earliest convenience, John [? Meyer, ?]
- the superintendent.
- But in the meantime, at Hygrade, that type of meat,
- I had already big infection on my finger.
- And all that night, I was bathing my finger
- and bathing my finger.
- The next morning, I go to the Oscar Mayer room,
- and I came in the office.
- And I start stuttering with my English.
- That fellow told me, you can talk German to me.
- He had come himself eight years before from Germany.
- But in the meantime, he was already superintendent.
- And then he talked to me for about an hour.
- Then he said, yeah, you go to the doctor and examine.
- And then on Monday, you can start working, not telling me
- what I would make or nothing.
- Then he turned around and he said,
- I want to introduce you to your boss.
- He introduced me to Gottfried Meyer.
- That was the nephew of the chairman of Oscar Mayer.
- Everybody was really pleasant.
- So I go to the doctor.
- Dr. Showalter, and they examined me.
- On Monday morning, I started working.
- And they put me in the boning department.
- And the others, they were cutting the meat off the bone.
- And I should just clean the bone.
- And the assistant foreman was a German fellow too.
- Already at lunchtime, I said, Frank, that is no work for me,
- cleaning the bones.
- Naturally, I talk German to him.
- And so after lunchtime, he told an American fellow,
- you clean the bone and Albert cleans the meat.
- And then that [? red ?] guy was just a greenhorn.
- He was rubbing in his beard and all, but that didn't help much.
- So I was standing there.
- But in the meat packing business,
- in May is the slowest time then, when big companies like Armour,
- Swift at that time, laid the people off, 20,000,
- 30,000 at a time, that only big people with big seniority
- keeping their jobs.
- And so it was slow at Oscar Mayer too,
- but they were very decent.
- They came then and asked me, Albert, you
- want to work in the hog-cutting floor instead laying me off.
- But at that time, it was still a 48-hour a week.
- And so they put me in that hog-cutting floor.
- But may I interrupt you?
- After a week working in that boning place and I got my check,
- I got my check $20.80, I felt like a king.
- And I worked decent.
- So coming in that hog-cutting floor,
- I had to trim, trim on slabs bacon.
- And I was wondering, you had to put
- the trimming in a barrel with your clock number on it.
- And they called the boss of that hog-cutting floor the slave
- driver.
- He only addressed me not with my name.
- I was Landsmann.
- And at five minutes to 8:00, everybody had to stand
- attention-- at attention at the table.
- At 8 o'clock, the whistle blows.
- Then with the heel of the knife, they made noise on the table.
- Everybody had to go.
- The people were scared to use the bathroom.
- They had to stay on their job.
- Then in the evening, that what you had done
- was put on the scale, your lock number and the weight on it.
- At that time, couple days later, that slave driver
- comes to me, Landsmann, can't you do any better?
- And but then I was told how much on a minimum
- you had to do in order to be able that they keep you,
- to hold your job.
- But then I found out I did already one fourth more
- than it was required to do.
- But that other boy, he was a Polack, a slave driver.
- No, maybe he wasn't a friend of the Jews either.
- And so I worked in that place only 28--
- 28 hours a week.
- I don't remember after a week or two on a Friday, he comes to me.
- And he said, Landsmann, you want to work tomorrow
- for your first boss, Mr. [? Schaefer? ?]
- That was the big boss from the boning department
- as well from the wholesale department.
- He was a German fellow too.
- And I said, a poor devil has to work.
- He thought maybe for Shabbos I didn't.
- OK, you go then there.
- The next morning, I go in that wholesale department.
- And they had there so many offals.
- And they pulling, pulling, trying
- to take so many barrels and barrels and barrels.
- And as I said, I was 100% expert.
- I didn't have to learn the trade here.
- And I worked there.
- And when it was early afternoon, I
- saw them sticking their heads together,
- another fellow worker or another boss.
- Then that Mr. [? Schaefer ?] came to me.
- And he said, Albert, don't you want to work for me here?
- What do you have to work for that slave driver?
- And you don't work 28 hours.
- You work as long as you want to work.
- You can work 48 hours.
- You work as long as you want to work.
- See, they never was used to somebody working like I worked.
- And for sure, I worked.
- So the next morning, Monday morning, that slave driver,
- in order to go to this hog-cutting floor,
- he had to pass my place.
- And he sees me working there.
- Landsmann?
- Nanu?
- I said, yeah, I'm working.
- I will see to it-- having a good man
- and taking that away from me?
- Before I was not good enough, I was not fast enough.
- But anyhow, I stayed in that place.
- And I said, I had started there with Oscar Mayer with $0.50
- an hour.
- You had to belong to the union.
- After I was four months there, a fellow worker said, Landsmann,
- how much money you make?
- I said $0.50.
- That's not right.
- You are entitled for after three months
- and they don't lay you off, you're
- entailed for a nickel more.
- So I go to the office, and I say what about it?
- Your next paycheck, you get it.
- Then after two months, I got an additional 7 1/2 cents raise.
- I got then 62 and 1/2 cents.
- But in the meantime, I stayed in that wholesale department,
- the same way wholesale that I was
- used to work at home in our own business.
- And you heard my name 100 times over that mic.
- And in the fifth floor was the freezer.
- I called the fifth floor for an order.
- But I talked German.
- Then other people came from the boss of the shipping.
- What is the matter?
- Are we here in America or in the old country?
- Because they couldn't participate what
- I was talking about.
- But anyhow, I--
- Then as I said I got 62 and 1/2 cents.
- Then automatically we got a raise to 67 and 1/2 cents.
- And there were people that were working there for 30 years that
- were making $0.90 an hour.
- And well, let me skip a little bit.
- I was there exactly 11.5 months.
- I was at that time, from over 700 people,
- among the three best paid people in the plant.
- Then in the meantime, the war-- as I said, the war broke out.
- And I had to go and register.
- And at that time, your examination
- was still before an individual.
- That was in Hyde Park.
- And he talked to me, start on my head.
- You become a good soldier.
- And he said, take your pants down.
- And he said, pick them up.
- You have a rupture.
- You know, they don't take you.
- But you better tell your people.
- So I got the classification 4F.
- I go, tell the boss about what they told me.
- They sent me back to that Dr. Showalter,
- and he examined me and he called the assistant.
- You have no rupture.
- But anyhow, I kept on working.
- I had my number was--
- I had a very low registration number.
- And finally they got a notice from the draft board,
- concerning them.
- He said, yeah, so and so, you have to go for examination.
- I said, I had my examination.
- It makes no difference, rupture or no rupture.
- So I had to go before the old specialists who examined you,
- and nobody told me anything if I had a rupture or no rupture.
- After a few days, I got in a notice, re-classified, 1A.
- And then my brother, who was living with me,
- I guess I had 4,000 registration number.
- My brother had 10,000 or whatever it was.
- And he said, yeah, the war has to take a long time
- until before they call me.
- So I was in call to go downtown Chicago,
- and all examinations again and nothing.
- But in the afternoon, I was in the army.
- But I could ask for two weeks to straighten out things.
- And it was then I had to report in November '42.
- I had my basic training in Camp Grant, Illinois.
- My brother who had that high number,
- he was inducted nine days after me.
- Went from Camp Grant, came to Camp Carson.
- Today, it's called Fort Carson, Colorado.
- Then to the Thermal Air Base in California
- near Indio, California.
- From there back to Camp Carson, Colorado.
- Then back to Barkeley Texas.
- Then in November, '44 we were shipped overseas.
- It's a week later now, and it's May 6, 1981.
- And we're speaking to Mr. Albert Geisel again this morning.
- And we're going-- since we talked a little bit
- about to the point where you were in the Second World War
- and in Europe.
- Now we'll go over that area lightly
- and see what happens and come back to the United States
- eventually.
- We left from Boston and converted SS America
- to Scotland.
- And we had Thanksgiving near Glasgow in old barracks
- from World War number one.
- After being there for a few weeks, we went with the railroad
- through England to Southampton, crossed the Channel,
- and arrived in France, in Le Havre.
- There we struck.
- We went to a place, Étretat, a former resort
- on the English Channel.
- And there we stayed-- we had--
- we stayed there for a short time.
- Then it was when the Battle of the Bulge
- started when Von Rundstedt made that advance.
- We left Étretat to [? Villejuif, ?]
- a suburb of Paris where we took over a French hospital.
- And there we were very busy, but those casualties which
- we got there were tremendous.
- As it was in the middle of winter,
- the biggest casualties were--
- And we are rerecording some previous tape that was--
- something unfortunate happened to.
- And today is June the 10th, 1981.
- And we're going to start, hopefully,
- where we left off last time at the end of that tape.
- And we got to the point where we were talking
- about how you met Mrs. Geisel.
- Do you want me?
- How did you meet your--
- Mrs. Geisel?
- This is actually a long story or not a long story.
- During the war, my parents and sister were in London, England.
- And my brother was attending--
- the university-- was sent from the army
- to attend the University of Cincinnati
- in order to learn French.
- And as it was done of so many Cincinnati families on weekends,
- they invited GIs.
- And so my brother was invited from a family, Carl Frank,
- for a weekend.
- And there came the conversation that Carl Frank
- had a sister who was not married and were in England.
- And my brother said, I have an unmarried brother
- who is in the army.
- And that was it.
- But after the war, I was with my--
- I was discharged from the army.
- And I was with my mother in New York, where I had taken a job.
- And one day, I was called home.
- My later wife came with her brother and sister-in-law
- to visit an acquaintance who had been in England also
- and were also acquaintances of my future wife to look me up.
- And then after, they left New York for Cincinnati.
- In the meantime, my brother had had his discharge too
- and were living in Chicago.
- And between my later brother-in-law, Carl Frank,
- and my brother, Gus Geisel, they arranged
- that I should meet Elsa.
- And in the meantime, I had a very, very good-paying job
- in New York.
- But they were after me.
- I had a much better future in Cincinnati.
- And so we got to the decision that I married, and started,
- and came to Cincinnati.
- For a very short time, it was in the business
- with my brother-in-law.
- What business was that?
- He had a sausage factory.
- And he wanted to enlarge.
- I-- as it was, my life going 100 percent in the hotel supply
- business.
- But for one reason or the other, I
- was not too happy when I started in business for myself.
- That was in March 1947.
- When you moved to Cincinnati, what part of the city
- did you move to?
- First, my brother-in-law, he lived on Cleveland Avenue.
- And we moved in to the third floor in his house--
- I don't know how many months.
- Then, also on Cleveland Avenue, there was a house for sale
- from Lillian's wife.
- The first few months in Cincinnati,
- she works there as a fitter or a seamstress,
- whatever you call it.
- And that house belonged to--
- they'd call her, I guess the grandmother,
- the mother of Mr. Jacobs or whatever it was.
- And so we bought that house in order
- to be close to the relatives.
- And at that time, Cleveland Avenue
- was very convenient located.
- As a fact, my wife doesn't drive.
- And we had our business in Bond Hill.
- But when our son became school age--
- Do you just have one son?
- One son.
- And he was born here in Cincinnati?
- Born in Cincinnati.
- We married in October '46, and our son was born in October '47.
- That was good.
- And we-- one day, I saw a house advertised in Bond Hill.
- And a friend of my brother-in-law,
- who was a builder, I took him along to look at the house.
- And I was ask the price.
- I made right away an offer.
- Also, the builder said, Albert, take it easy.
- Was on a Sunday afternoon, and I went home.
- We had a little to eat.
- Then it happened.
- The doorbell rang.
- And somebody came in the door, inquired
- for some certain people.
- And while I was talking there, I talked to our neighbors.
- Then I was called from my wife.
- I'm wanted on the phone.
- And the seller of the house was on the phone
- and said, Mr. Geisel, we did some talking
- and some arithmetic.
- I accept your offer.
- And what street was that now?
- On Yarmouth Avenue, Bond Hill.
- At that time, Bond Hill was one of the top elementary schools.
- But as I said, our son was in walking distance,
- wasn't depending on transportation going to school.
- And my wife was in walking distance to the business,
- as she doesn't drive.
- So it was very, very convenient located for us.
- And I don't even recall if we stayed in Bond Hill--
- maybe from 1952 to 1976, I guess.
- When we sold our house, as we are-- in the meantime,
- our son got married.
- And this was only my wife and myself.
- We didn't need a house.
- And we saw a nice place advertised.
- And we moved to Roselawn, our present location.
- Your present home.
- All right.
- Let's go back.
- And I think would be interesting to talk about the business.
- We didn't-- we erased that part from the first tape.
- As I said, I started out in business.
- At that time, it was very difficult.
- It was very competitive.
- And at that time, I didn't know, the predecessor of my store
- was very much disliked as, during the war,
- he took too much advantage of people.
- He was able do his relationships with meatpackers
- that he had enough meat to sell, but sold it only
- to friends or at known high prices.
- So when I bought the store, it was a declining business,
- as that man was so disliked.
- So I had to start all over again.
- But as business progressed, I got very well-known.
- I didn't have to do too much advertising
- because my best advertising was from our customers,
- from mouth to mouth.
- And I must say, I was 100% expert in my line.
- I could serve the people with the right merchandise
- and the right price, without taking advantage of them.
- The store was on California Avenue, wasn't it?
- The store was on California Avenue,
- next to Fifth Third Bank.
- And later on, as people went more and more to freezer meat,
- I was approached from all my customers,
- filled their freezer with sides of beef, and so--
- and developed till that became a nice restaurant supplier.
- My business was lately only 90% or maybe even 95% in meats.
- And from the 95%, was 75% wholesale.
- But as our son had left and went to college,
- and after reaching 65, my wife didn't want to work anymore.
- So when I was almost 66, I sold our place and retired.
- OK.
- Let's talk about, now, your religious and social life
- in the Cincinnati community.
- When you first came to Cincinnati,
- you were a young married man.
- What was your social life?
- Was it primarily your family?
- First of all, you came out of the army,
- you had left the old country.
- Also, coming from a very wealthy family,
- you started out with nothing.
- But I always was independent and want to be independent.
- There was not an eight-hour day, that was a 15-hour day and six
- and a half days a week.
- And so there was not much left what social life concerned.
- And at that time, the newcomers, what religious life concerned,
- they joined the New Hope congregation.
- And naturally, only on the High Holidays,
- you could participate in the service.
- But later on, when our son became school age,
- all his friends were--
- belonged to the Wise Temple.
- And so naturally, I made an appointment.
- At that time, it was--
- Milton Bloom was the president of Wise Temple.
- On a Sunday, I had an appointment with him.
- And I said, so and so.
- And I joined the Wise Temple.
- And so later on, we were only just
- a paying member of New Hope.
- But we attending all the activities and services
- with the Wise Temple because also, we were so-called Orthodox
- Jews in the old country.
- But nevertheless, we didn't know the translation from Hebrew
- to German, or in this country, from Hebrew to English.
- But at the Wise Temple the service
- was conducted in English.
- So we could follow the service.
- And we could understand what we were praying.
- But while with the Wise Temple, naturally,
- when there came Passover, we always--
- second day, we participate in the congregational Seder.
- Otherwise, our social activities were very much limited,
- as mentioned before, with six and a half days work
- and 15 hours or more a day.
- So now, you're making up for it now.
- Have you ever returned to Germany?
- Yes.
- In '72, when I retired, we--
- there was a special flight from the Germania.
- And my wife and myself, with quite a few of my--
- our acquaintances went on the same flight.
- And we went direct from Cincinnati
- to Frankfurt, where I rented a car, and from Frankfurt,
- going to my hometown, Rheinbach.
- That was about 150 kilometers.
- Well, it's German.
- But nevertheless, they had now the Autobahn--
- that means the expressway--
- when I came.
- I should have--
- I made a mistake.
- I was looking for the word exit where
- I had to leave in Siegburg.
- But in German, it is not exit, it is Abfahrt.
- But nevertheless, I made some detour.
- But I had to go from the Autobahn, which
- is on the right side of the river Rhine.
- I had to go across the bridge to Bonn.
- And from Bonn was the main highway,
- Meckenheim, and then Rheinbach.
- That was dramatically different.
- It was dramatic.
- I had to ask my way through.
- But after being in Rheinbach, I was at home again.
- What was it like when you got back there?
- So we went there to a restaurant where
- my brother had stayed before.
- We had been in the old country more frequently as I was.
- And I made reservations.
- But it was on a Sunday afternoon after putting our luggage
- in our room.
- But it was making one mistake.
- From leaving that restaurant, I want
- to see our friend, close friend, who is a farmer in Rheinbach,
- but just a couple of minutes from that restaurant.
- And I took the key from our apartment wrong.
- And leaving the restaurant, instead hanging it up that
- people knew that I had-- that I was not in the building,
- I went to our friend's.
- And that is custom in a small country
- town in the Sunday afternoon, they visit the cemetery.
- And saw my friend's daughter and family
- who live in the same building, who didn't know us.
- But they heard my parents are at the cemetery.
- In the meantime, it was about 4:30 in the afternoon.
- I showed my wife around in the city and explained a little.
- While walking around, in the meantime,
- the people were leaving church.
- And there was one couple, second house neighbor of ours,
- Jacob [? Kriebler ?] and Betty [? Kriebler. ?] And that man was
- in the upholstery business.
- They're walking towards me.
- And I step in front of them.
- And I ask them, don't you know me?
- No.
- I said, aren't you Jacob [? Kriebler. ?] Yeah.
- Aren't you Betty?
- She was used to be in my class.
- She went to school with me.
- That Jacob [? Kriebler ?] was two years older than I am.
- I said, don't you know Albert Geisel?
- Then you can imagine the surprise.
- Then all those people--
- and there's a small town, that was in the middle of the city,
- came from church.
- And then everybody came.
- Yeah, here's my sister, Clara.
- Here's this and that.
- But as it was so long, I mean, it took me a long time
- to remember that yeah, there's [? Gemur ?] [? Chang. ?]
- There's [? Franz ?] [? Hank ?] and so on.
- I mean, then I got acquainted.
- Anyhow, after talking to them, we went then across the street
- where we used to live.
- There was a restaurant.
- And I said to my wife, let's eat a little.
- While eating there, I--
- my former friend, the Jacob [? Kriebler ?] was there.
- And I treated him for a glass of beer and talking to him.
- In the meantime, on the other table were four or five people.
- And so my friend said, don't you know Willie [? Storm ?] anymore?
- And so going over there, the right away,
- so many questions they bring.
- And one sister from-- of that [? Willie ?] [? Storm, ?] she
- went to school with my brother.
- So all the questions about how I've been and all the experience
- what I had in concentration camp,
- and all they claimed they didn't--
- They were interested to know.
- --they didn't know anything about it.
- But our conversation took so long that in the meantime,
- it was 8:30 when I walked in to the place of my friend,
- [? Arnold ?] [? Simmons ?] and family, that farmer.
- And while I was there, the neighbors came.
- And everybody was holding ears and mouths
- open to want to know so-and-so.
- And that was extended and extended.
- In the meantime, there was the son
- of a former next-door neighbor.
- He lived across the street of that friend of ours.
- Yeah, we have to see Willie [? Esse ?] too.
- So we go then to him.
- And right away, they came and bottle of wine.
- And his wife, she was a daughter of a former customer of ours.
- But when I had left Germany, she was maybe three, four years old.
- She had no idea.
- And when we had a conversation about her aunt and uncle,
- and they were only sitting there and so
- amazed how I all know the family conditions.
- But in the meantime, I guess it was about 12:30 at night.
- And we had not slept with the time difference,
- for maybe 18-19 hours leaving the United States.
- And we coming to our restaurant.
- We had in front, that whole thing was with a gate closed up.
- And we couldn't get in.
- And we rattled on that gate.
- You could hear at night, when everything
- was quiet for 10 miles.
- We couldn't get in.
- And so what really happened in the--
- at that day, there was Schützenfeste in the city.
- It was the same then, the blank--
- I know it-- it's like the Coping House has once a year here
- in Cincinnati.
- I think that's wine and dancing.
- When they shoot the bird, and so on, and so on.
- And so everybody was attending there
- in the outskirts of the city.
- And they thought.
- And then so what did we do?
- We tried to get in another hotel to sleep.
- But everything was closed.
- So finally, we went back to that farmer.
- I slept between two chairs.
- And so the next morning, when I went into our restaurant,
- and those people were amazed to see us.
- They thought we were in our room.
- Then our key was not hanging up.
- So that day, we walked around and saw another friend
- of ours, a lady--
- the fact, she had visited me in London
- while I had waited a year in London for my quota number
- to come to the United States.
- And after that, in the afternoon, we met our friends.
- And with our car, we went for a tour what
- I was used to do to Altenahr, Neuenahr, what
- is a very famous resort town, and then down the river
- Rhine, then up Bad Godesberg.
- And then in the meantime, we pass
- a village for our friend's daughter-in-law was married.
- With our car, we went into the field where there were--
- So you had a very wonderful experience and good feelings
- about going back to Germany then?
- And then the next day, as we had--
- what was wrong on our part, we had arranged our tour,
- we left our hometown to Brussels, Belgium,
- to see my uncle, who was living there.
- And so we stayed about two or three days with our uncle
- in Brussels.
- Then we, with our car--
- and he and his wife with his car--
- we went to La Rochelle in Luxembourg.
- They called that the Luxembourg Swiss.
- It is located in very nice, green pasture country.
- We stayed there with them for three days.
- And from there, we took the car, we
- left Luxembourg, and went to--
- over Metz, to Strasbourg in France, where
- a cousin of my wife was living.
- We stayed with her a few days in Strasbourg.
- With friends of them, we went all to the surroundings.
- We went to the Borges that is--
- was very well-known from World War I,
- where were heavy fighting done.
- From there, we went--
- but it was all close by to Baden-Baden, very famous
- resort town.
- And after going back, then, a few more days to Strasbourg,
- we left Strasbourg, and went to Freudenstadt,
- and stayed there for six or seven days.
- But besides going to the [? cool ?]
- garden, listen to the music, the band,
- we went several times again to Baden-Baden.
- And I drove my wife to the vineyards
- what she never had seen before.
- Where was your wife actually from originally?
- She came--
- Cologne, did you say?
- She came from north Germany, Wunstorf-- that's near Hanover.
- And then after six days in Freudenstadt, our time was up,
- we drove to Frankfurt, turned our car in,
- and back to the United States.
- So how was your general impression of your return?
- As I said, it was my--
- as I was only such a short time in Germany,
- had no much chance to talk to people.
- But in my hometown, which was only a town of 5,000
- population--
- but while I was gone, Germany had lost World War II,
- the population had doubled as the people from former Sudeten
- Germany, with their industry, had come to Germany so that
- there wasn't a population of 5,000 people,
- there were 10,000 people.
- In my hometown, much buildings going on what
- had been gardens and fields.
- There were houses.
- Like city hall, what was in the middle of the city,
- that was built outside of the city.
- And there was so much traffic on the street
- that there were even a traffic police on the street.
- I mean, in that way.
- But what people itself concerned,
- had not much chance besides my friend
- and a few who came to see me.
- But the people there at that time,
- they were doing all very, very well.
- The fact, we went in a Konditorei, and I--
- that name was [? Mostadt. ?]
- And I said, you know my father was the gardener.
- As I said that I didn't know that man, only the name.
- Then his wife, she was a daughter
- of a Bernard [? Althausen, ?] who went to school with me.
- But she had no idea about me.
- But the people in the old country,
- they did all very, very well.
- All right.
- Let's just-- can you give us a little idea about your views
- on Israel?
- Change it.
- In regards of Israel, the intention of the people
- are very well-founded.
- But as it might be in any country or any family,
- if you have a family of six, or if you have a whole country,
- you have different opinions how to approach things.
- And there are mistakes made within the family.
- There are mistakes made in a country.
- As the sad story is, going back in history,
- the Jews are the most hated people.
- And the fact is if they can't help themselves, they are lost.
- Now, what Israel concerned, there
- are many things done what I don't agree with.
- Instead being there as a whole entity, not Orthodox, Reform,
- there should be there as Jews and have
- only one thing in common--
- the best for the people, not be in each other's hair.
- Now, what personally-- I am not a Zionist, but I'm a Jew.
- There is nothing what charity concern or whatever it
- is where I don't participate.
- But that doesn't mean that I agree with everything
- what is going on.
- And to my soul, Israel is not different
- from any other countries.
- That is very much of selfishness going on.
- So I only can emphasize when they want to make progress,
- once they have success, it should be--
- should pull on the same string.
- I think you've given us a really good picture
- of your life up till now.
- And just for a final question-- and I think I know the answer
- before you answer it--
- did any social agencies or any people in Cincinnati
- help you along the way?
- To be frankly, as I have mentioned several times before,
- I never asked anybody for anything.
- But starting out as a so-called greenhorn, foreigner,
- stranger in business, you could use all the help you could get.
- But the experience that I had from Jewish people
- in Cincinnati, when I started out in business, everybody
- was patronizing me.
- But the Jewish people had even the experience.
- There was one family who lived close to my store who
- were Orthodox that they didn't buy from me, as I didn't
- have kosher meat.
- But they came occasionally and bought
- a loaf of bread or some milk.
- And once the conversation came up
- that I had been in a concentration camp, that I was
- Jewish, those Orthodox Jews, they were so surprised
- that I was not German, that they never put a foot in my store
- anymore after hearing that I was Jewish.
- So answering your question, I have no special patronage
- from no Jewish organization or any Jews,
- except later on, when I was well-known.
- Had Jewish people the same like Gentile people who came to me.
- Like my brother and always said, Al, don't get in your mind
- that the people come to Al.
- They come to Al because they see an advantage in coming to you.
- OK.
- Is there any final thing you'd like to say
- to sum up this interview?
- I think it's really been a pleasure and a delight
- to be here.
- And I'm really lucky that the tape didn't work out
- because I've enjoyed coming back to visit with you.
- When I was approached from your people about that interview,
- I had nothing to hide.
- Everybody can know about my history
- because we came, as I repeat and repeat again,
- from very, very well-to-do people, as I
- had mentioned at the beginning of our interview.
- The generation before me in the old country, the taxpayers--
- the people what voting concerned,
- they were in three classes.
- Or my dad had the privilege to be in the number one class.
- That means-- I don't recall anymore they
- had three votes or two votes.
- But they was in the top class.
- And the only thing what I am proud of about coming here
- with nothing, accomplish everything.
- We were independent, stay independent, was able to give
- our only child, our son, a wonderful education,
- sending him to the best schools.
- As I said before, he attended Wharton School, the school
- of business in Pennsylvania.
- He attended law school in Cincinnati,
- went after graduation, without any help, to Colorado
- and made the bar in Colorado, worked for a couple of months
- for the justice of the Supreme Court, Mr. Erickson, the Justice
- Erickson.
- In the meantime, he had made applications at two places--
- to the district attorney, who--
- but as everybody knows, our son had made the bar around October.
- And these, the attorneys, who have to run for election,
- it comes not before November.
- And it happens both attorneys--
- one in Boulder, Colorado and the other one in Pueblo, Colorado--
- both were elected.
- And our son came in a peculiar situation,
- as that district attorney in Pueblo had a post him first.
- And he took the job.
- But naturally, he had to wait from November to January,
- when they was taking over.
- But in the meantime, the district attorney in Boulder
- wanted him also.
- And at that time, our son asked the justice of the Supreme Court
- what his suggestion was.
- And at that time, our son was not married yet.
- And that Justice Erickson said, as you are not married,
- and Boulder is a college town, also the most desired position,
- but I would prefer Boulder.
- And so our son had a very hard time,
- as he had taken that job in Pueblo,
- to tell that man that he was going to Boulder.
- But after being in Boulder for a little more than a
- year or the two years, the district attorney from Pueblo,
- through a third party, approached our son
- to have him with all kinds of promises.
- So he went to Pueblo.
- And there, he became very well-known as one of, I guess,
- the youngest deputy district attorney.
- They had a murder case.
- He was for weeks in the front line in the paper.
- And he got also that prospect murder
- was a very famous athlete.
- And he was able to get him convicted.
- But being really advancing at the chief deputy district
- attorney, he told his boss, if the opportunity arises
- to go in business for himself, he will do.
- And that is what he did.
- So the last four or five years or whatever, three years,
- he is practicing law on his own in Pueblo, Colorado.
- And married and has two adorable children.
- That right?
- He's married and he has two adorable children.
- Yes, yes, yes.
- He's now married for five years and have
- two wonderful grandsons.
- And it seems to me you have a very full, wonderful life.
Overview
- Interviewee
- Albert Geisel
- Interviewer
- Barbara Kreines
- Date
-
interview:
1981 June 10
Physical Details
- Language
- English
- Extent
-
2 sound cassettes (90 min.).
Rights & Restrictions
- Conditions on Access
- There are no known restrictions on access to this material.
- Conditions on Use
- No restrictions on use
Keywords & Subjects
- Topical Term
- Holocaust, Jewish (1939-1945)--Personal narratives. Holocaust survivors--United States.
- Personal Name
- Geisel, Albert.
Administrative Notes
- Holder of Originals
-
American Jewish Archives
- Legal Status
- Permanent Collection
- Provenance
- The interview with Albert Geisel was conducted on June 10, 1981, for a joint project with the National Council of Jewish Women, Cincinnati Section and the American Jewish Archives of the Hebrew Union College - Jewish Institute of Religion entitled "Survivors of Hitler's Germany in Cincinnati: An Oral History." The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum acquired a copy of the interview in June 1990.
- Special Collection
-
The Jeff and Toby Herr Oral History Archive
- Record last modified:
- 2023-11-16 08:19:02
- This page:
- http://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn511385
Additional Resources
Transcripts (2)
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- See Rights and Restrictions
- Terms of Use
- This record is digitized but cannot be downloaded online.
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Oral history interview with Herbert Wolf
Oral History
Oral history interview with Ursula Wolf
Oral History