- Is it rolling?
- Rolling, one, two, three.
- This is Dan Tilles on June the 3rd, 1981, interviewing Albert
- Tilles.
- First question is can you describe
- those who comprised your household before the war?
- I was living with my parents--
- my father and my mother.
- Besides not the household, my brother
- was in Palestine that time.
- My twin sister was living in other city in Poland.
- What was your family's social status,
- level of religious observation, level of cultural observation,
- educational background, relationship to non-Jews,
- assimilation?
- It's a very long question.
- Let's start in--
- Social status?
- --with the social status.
- And immediately before the war, I actually
- supported my parents.
- My father used to have something which
- can be considered a tavern quite a few years prior to the war.
- But it's gradually deteriorated.
- And they have forced to close it.
- And after that, he tried to open a small grocery
- in the suburban part of Kraków.
- But also after about a year or so, he was forced to close it.
- And being an elderly man not in the best of health,
- with diabetes, and atherosclerotic heart disease,
- he was unable to provide for the family.
- And therefore, for the last few years prior to the war,
- I was the one who was providing for the family needs.
- We used to live in a relatively new apartment in a walk-up,
- but relatively modern.
- The way of my support the family were as follows--
- first of all, I was one of the few, or maybe
- only one Jewish student who received the state stipendium
- fellow scholarship from the medical school I attended.
- Besides, I was working as a kind of secretary
- in the office of a Zionist organization in Kraków.
- That was in addition to me studying medicine
- in Kraków Medical School.
- And as far as religious involvement was concerned,
- my father, later in life, became more religious.
- But our observation was most limited--
- in the last few years, mostly to attending the services
- during the High Holidays.
- And the house was not kosher.
- And we was further assimilated.
- For instance, my parents never knew and never spoke Jewish.
- They knew and spoke German.
- They were born during the Austrian regime.
- The family-- my father's, personally,
- was considered one of the more assimilated in the level
- of the population in Kraków.
- What was their relationship to non-Jews?
- There was very few contact lately
- between my father and not Jewish population
- and so few neighbors.
- As far as I'm concerned, I am exposed to relationship
- to non-Jews because of first fact
- that I attended Polish medical school
- in Polish university, about which if you want to we
- can talk in length later on.
- Secondly, because of my political activity
- as a Zionist, I was exposed to officials
- of the Polish government.
- And that was-- and very little social life
- was considered completely.
- And socially, I was almost no contact with non-Jews.
- What about the educational background of your parents?
- I am not too clear about the educational background
- of my parents, that they were--
- as far as I remember, they didn't
- have any formal education beyond grammar school.
- But both of them, besides speaking fluently Polish,
- they spoke German.
- My mother used to read quite a bit of books
- beside the daily newspaper.
- What was the level of cultural observation?
- You lived in a large city.
- Yes.
- I lived in large cities.
- I attended the theater and concert in the city.
- And that's as far as I could afford them.
- And as far as my father was concerned,
- he used to play flute.
- But later on, he didn't play anymore.
- Many years prior the war, my mother
- was attending concerts and theater.
- But before the war, because of economical and financial
- circumstances, the cultural activities were very limited.
- Did you encounter any antisemitic experiences
- before the war?
- Yes, I did encounter plenty of it.
- As I mentioned before, I attended the high school, what
- was called gymnasium in Poland.
- In a class of 30-some of my students,
- it was two or three Jewish students and then experienced
- some degree of antisemitisms from the colleagues,
- especially--
- mostly from the teaching staff.
- Then after trying four times, finally,
- I was able to be admitted to the medical faculty
- of the University of Kraków Jagiellonian
- University, the oldest and most prestigious university
- in Poland.
- And about these experiences as a medical student
- there, I will spend hours talking to you about.
- I don't know if you are interested.
- Experience, to put it very shortly--
- first of all, it was awkward at the beginning when
- I was admitted to the medical school,
- was called numerus clausus.
- It means that only a certain percentage of students
- was admitted to the Jew-- as Jews.
- And that it said it--
- not exactly English-- numerus clausus,
- it meant that from 120 student admitted
- to first-year medical school, only five
- was in Jewish religion.
- And second episode during the studies--
- in a faculty, medical faculty, they
- ordered that Jewish student can work only on Jewish bodies
- during the anatomical study.
- And that forced medical students to try
- to make effort to enter the body of the Jews
- who were delivered to prosector.
- And second problem we had the medical school in--
- when I was a first-year student, we all
- belonged to one general organization
- of medical students of the university.
- But then-- and the general organization
- throw all the Jewish student out of there.
- And this organization was very rich organization,
- supplying books, and help, and money to the students.
- After a very long fight, finally, we
- received permission and organized
- our own Jewish organization of medical student.
- And finally, when I was almost on the last--
- the fourth year of medical school,
- which was not the last year.
- In the medical school in Poland goes at five and one
- third of the year.
- And the so-called numerus nullus was introduced.
- In other words, from this year on, no medical students
- were admitted to medical school.
- Besides, we were exposed to antisemitic episode
- during the courses.
- And we were ordered to sit in so-called ghetto
- in the auditorium in the university.
- We refused to do it.
- And we are standing there in the lecture.
- Also, during this stay in the university,
- frequently, we were exposed to violent acts--
- beating, throwing out of the auditorium,
- kicking, and this type of behavior
- from inside of our medical so-called colleagues.
- We were also exposed to antisemitism
- from the part of the teaching faculty professors, which
- explains the antisemitic feeling very freely.
- I also was exposed to antisemitic situation.
- And I was witnessing the gradual deterioration
- of financial economical situation of my family
- and the Jews in general.
- And I think that four or five years before the war, one
- of the prime minister of Poland used this expression,
- economical warfare against Jews--
- OK, but no violence.
- That was the attitude of the Jewish government--
- Polish government and Polish population even before the war.
- And in certain respect, this antisemitisms
- in social and private life in contact
- with non-Jewish population, it was
- even more extreme at that time than it was in Germany.
- As the prospects of the war became imminent,
- what options were open to you and your family?
- And what was involved in the decision-making?
- The prospective of war was evident.
- But again, there's a denial of the population
- that something like that can happen.
- And even during the last few days prior to the war,
- when we already had to cover the windows
- and close the lights at night, we still
- believed that all this is a power play from the German.
- And the concession offered by Polish government in last two,
- three days prior the beginning of the war,
- would actually work.
- And a complete capitulation to German request of a--
- consider as an ultimatum.
- Was still hope that war will not start,
- and some kind of concession instead may take place.
- We saw that a similar situation occurred
- when the German occupied Austria and then occupied
- part of Czechoslovakia and the rest of the Czechoslovakia.
- Somehow, they were able to accomplish whatever
- they wanted without war.
- And we were hoping that this, then, somehow, an accommodation
- will be find out with Germany and no war will start.
- As far as the option is concerned,
- we didn't have actually any option.
- We didn't have any money.
- We didn't have any possibility to run, or to emigrate,
- or to run any place that will require a large amount
- of money, which we didn't have.
- How old were you when the war broke out?
- I was 29 years old.
- And how did the first word of the war reach you?
- The windows of our apartment were
- facing in the distance in the military airport in Kraków.
- And about 2 o'clock--
- at about 6 o'clock in the morning,
- we heard a bomb explosion.
- We ran to the windows.
- And we saw then the airplanes that
- were parked on the airport near Kraków or bombed.
- And we saw for the first time the Germans took us in action.
- How did your family respond to that?
- The response of my certain family
- was to wait till the development in situation.
- And my job stop, didn't exist anymore
- because it was a work in political organization, which
- was automatically became illegal.
- And we-- it was complete confusion.
- The so-called Polish radio didn't supply us
- with any information.
- We didn't know what to do.
- And I was a reserve officer of the Polish Army.
- And I have standing orders.
- In case of the war, I have to report to certain units.
- But before I even contemplate to report to my unit,
- the radio urge all the military personnel and reserve personnel
- of the Polish Army to leave the city
- and walk toward the next city, which was Tarnów,
- approximately 200 miles away.
- So I left whatever I have to my parents and some supply of food
- left.
- And then with a group of my friends
- from the Zionist organization and academic organization
- in which I was also quite active,
- I think was on September 3 when we left Kraków.
- And we start walking east.
- This was how long after the war broke out?
- Three days.
- And what are your first memories of the war?
- First memory of the war is bombing, and the black smoke
- rising from the airport, and then
- and the complete confusion, complete dissolution
- of any authority, and the inability
- to get any information, to have any direction
- from any official source on what to do, how to behave,
- and so on.
- But among the Jewish population, in these first few days,
- more and more was inclined to say with the memories of what
- the German did to their own population, memory of the Jews
- were forcibly thrown over the border of Germany
- into Poland, for which we carried in a few months
- prior to the beginning of the war.
- And the tendency was to try to run away from the war
- and away from the Germans.
- And therefore, I made this decision
- and packed a few things myself and start walking east.
- What happened after that, after you started walking east?
- Well, I walked east there.
- And finally, I reached this next town
- in which I was supposed to report to my unit.
- And then I find out the order is to go in northeast, this time
- to report to the other place.
- And I was there walking.
- Fortunately, it was a beautiful September days.
- There was no rain in the beginning.
- Most of the time, we walked.
- And the roads were full of flying people like myself.
- From time to time, German airplanes
- and were attacking these fire--
- people walking on the street, and riding in the horse
- carriages, and so on.
- And occasionally, I was able to get in some horse carriage
- and go a few miles instead of walking.
- During the night, we tried to rest.
- And all we walked through in--
- and in rest, we were sleeping in some farms.
- As far as the food is concerned, we
- had some small amount of money as we took.
- And we were able to buy some food
- from the peasants on the way.
- Sometimes, we are even digging in some
- of the farms were already empty.
- And we were able to secure some potatoes from the field.
- And somehow, we managed to survive.
- I am using this word because I was
- walking with a group of friends of ours.
- But during these air attacks on us,
- gradually, we lost each other in trees.
- And everybody was running to hide from the bullets.
- And then we saw the first effect of this--
- people killed and wounded, laying
- on the road and other people--
- men, women, and children-- running away into the--
- away from the roads.
- It was when men were attacked during these attacks.
- One of the dramatic situation was
- when we arrived to a bridge, which
- was over one of the river, which was emptying
- to the main Polish river Vistula.
- The name of the river was San.
- And the village was burning.
- And the German was very near.
- And the bridge was under the attack
- by the German artillery and tanks.
- And we have the option then or to stay or to risk
- and run through the bridge, a wooden bridge, which
- was partially burned already.
- I decided to take a risk and run over the bridge.
- I was able to pass the river.
- And shortly after that, the bridge went up in flames.
- In some of the villages were Jewish communities,
- which were usually panic-stricken.
- But some of them didn't want to move.
- They say, we survived the First World War.
- And the Second World War, can-- will probably be similar.
- It will pass.
- And we stay, especially there were villages in Poland,
- which were almost 100% Jewish.
- And was impossible to convince the elders of these communities
- that waiting for German is no option to be taken.
- They stay.
- We moved further east, further east.
- Finally, after approximately 17 days
- walking and riding using a different means
- of transportation, I find myself few miles
- from the Polish-Russian border.
- And shortly after that, the Russian Army
- crossed the Polish border and occupied
- the eastern part of Poland.
- What happened after?
- Then what happened?
- In that time, I was together with some members
- of my not immediate family, but with my uncle, and his wife,
- and his son, who was also a medical student in Kraków.
- But they were living in this time in Lublin.
- And he was a sergeant in the Polish Army.
- And after the Russian Soviet Army
- occupied our-- this village where
- we were, when the war actually ended,
- in spite of the sporadic resistance of Polish troops
- in some of the towns, like Warsaw and Gdynia,
- for all practical purposes, the war ended.
- And we decided to go to Lwów, which was
- occupied by the Soviet Union.
- It was called liberated Ukraine.
- And after a few days waiting, the train
- started to move around.
- And we were able through the windows get into the train.
- And after, I think, three or four days traveling
- from this place in the village, not far from the Soviet Union
- border, we went to Lwów.
- One reason for that was that it was--
- I wanted to finish my medical education.
- And what was the situation?
- The medical school in Poland lasted five and one third year.
- And I finished medical school in winter 1938.
- After that, I started to take the final examination, which
- were--
- and I took few of them during the spring season of 1939.
- And the rest of my final examination
- was scheduled for September and October 1939.
- But that time was the war already in progress.
- And I was left with no documents proving my medical education
- and without finishing the education.
- I hoped that by getting to Lwów, I
- would be able to get some information how
- I can get this--
- a possibility or to take the examinations,
- or to get some documents from Kraków,
- or maybe to go back to Kraków.
- We didn't know what to do then.
- So after the relatively long trip,
- we went to Lwów, which was under Russian occupation.
- Yeah, go ahead.
- In Lwów, in the beginning, I was together
- with the family I described before.
- But then because of difficult financial difficulties
- and an inability to support themselves,
- I decided that I should go on my own
- and stay separately from them.
- I was interested in getting my document from Kraków
- and tried to get information what
- happened to my parents, what happened to my future--
- [AUDIO OUT]
- Already at that time, the people started
- to come from Kraków to Lwów running away from German.
- And from these people, I was able to get information
- that somehow, my parents are managing.
- And my future wife was making preparations
- to join me in Lwów.
- From the other part, I tried to get some documents
- from the Kraków University.
- And again, through these people, I
- get in touch with some of my friends from the university
- and from the medical school who were left,
- who didn't leave the Kraków.
- And they promised to get me the so-called absolutorium
- statement from the university that I finished
- my medical studies and the result of the examination I
- already took.
- Unfortunately, before they were able to secure
- this information, the university was closed by the German.
- And there was no--
- the professor were arrested and imprisoned.
- And there was no possibility to get any information
- from the Kraków University.
- I went to medical school in Lwów.
- And after a long, trying, and long discussion, finally,
- I received permission to repeat all my examination,
- from the first to the last, from the chemistry, physics,
- anatomy, and physiology, and to the all clinical examinations
- on the base of the affidavit that
- was signed by friends of and colleagues of mine who attended
- the university-- to the Jagiellonian University
- together with me.
- And that was my next step I had to prepare for examination.
- And in relatively short time, I was
- able to pass again this examination,
- so much so that in December 1940, when it is approximately
- one year after I arrived in Lwów,
- I received a diploma of a physician
- from the Medical Institute organized
- within the University of Lwów.
- So your wife-- your future wife joined you already
- at this point?
- At this point, my future wife joined me already.
- So what happened after that now you were both in Lwów?
- What happened after that?
- My future wife enrolled in the school
- and was studying in Russia.
- And I finally got a job.
- Even studying at this examination,
- I got a job in a tuberculosis department
- of the medical school in Lwów, which
- gave me a relatively small amount of money.
- But also, then I was able to eat there
- and sometimes even to get some food to bring home.
- What was the course of events after that?
- The course of the--
- in Soviet Union was in methods so on
- that new graduating doctor were assigned by the authorities
- to certain part in certain positions, regardless
- of their inclination, and the ability, and so on.
- And I was assigned to a small village not far from Lwów.
- And because of my experience in tuberculosis
- and addition requirement of venereal skin disease,
- I was sent there to organize a tuberculosis sanatorium
- and tuberculosis dispensary and take
- care of tuberculosis patients from this village
- and surrounding country.
- In the meantime, my wife was finishing the studies
- in her nursing study.
- And our plan was then, after she finished,
- she moved to this small village.
- And we settled over there.
- But in June 1941, the Soviet and the German war started.
- And the day when it started, I happened
- to be in Lwów because it happened on the weekend.
- And some of the weekend, I was able to come
- from this village not far from Lwów by train
- and to see my wife in Lwów.
- But as soon as the war started, I
- was unable to go back to the place of my work.
- And again, we were faced with the situation what to do--
- to run again through the very hostile Ukrainian population
- in the east who is deep into the new Russia?
- Or to wait in development of situation?
- Again, the situation was quite chaotic.
- Two days after the start of the war,
- all the Soviet authorities left Lwów.
- By the third day, they came back,
- proclaiming they will fight.
- And they are winning.
- And they are going to repulse the German.
- And therefore, our option was or to run again
- or to stay and wait on development and the reasoning.
- Five days after the beginning of the war,
- the German went and came to Lwów.
- And we went into Lwów for a few months
- again in working different places,
- trying to make enough money to secure some kind of support.
- Fortunately, we-- in that time, we
- were living not in the center of the city.
- But then the Germans started to form a ghetto,
- and it was visible and predictable
- that all the Jews were living like we were living,
- on the periphery, will be forced to go to ghetto.
- And we were faced with situation or to go to ghetto among people
- which we didn't know almost anybody
- or to try to go back to ghetto in Kraków,
- where we had friends, family, and so on.
- And we decided to take the risk and secure ourselves
- some Polish documents.
- And my wife's brother paid some two Polish fellow
- to help us to go through it.
- And we took off our armbands with the Star of David.
- And we boarded a train at night.
- And after a few hours, we find ourselves
- in the part of the Poland which was called now
- government government.
- And it was this part of Poland, which was occupied by German
- in 1939.
- From this small village, we were able to get
- in contact with our friends and family in ghetto Kraków.
- And they were able to secure for us the identification
- card, so-called Kennkarte.
- And after we received this Kennkarte, again,
- without an armband and other signs of the fact that we
- are Jewish, we went to Kraków.
- And we were clandestinely into the ghetto.
- Before then, did you have any thoughts
- of leaving Poland or even trying to go to Palestine?
- Yes.
- Well, before the war or during the war?
- During the war, right before you decided
- to come back to the ghetto.
- No.
- At that time, it was too late to do anything.
- But in the beginning, in the winter of 1939,
- we were considering to go to Hungary.
- But again, that required a large amount
- of money, which we didn't have.
- So in spite of the fact that I have some contacts
- with the Ukrainian friends on the border of Poland
- and Hungary, we are unable to do it.
- And after this winter, the border
- was so closely guarded that you couldn't even
- go near the border.
- You have to have a special pass to go
- within 50 miles of the border.
- And if not, you are arrested by Soviet facilities.
- Therefore, the idea was given up.
- In the beginning, people who have more money
- were able to somehow to go some other places--
- to Vilna, to Hungary, to Romania.
- But we, because of lack of money, we were unable to do it.
- It's not as simple as that.
- But it's an abbreviation.
- So get now ghetto, right?
- Right.
- Can you describe the ghetto, the formation of it,
- how it was set up, the administrators,
- the inhabitants, the lifestyle, the size, the work,
- the housing, food, medical attention, schooling,
- religious practices, political activity, cultural activities,
- resistance, or smuggling?
- Just to give you a general outline of things.
- It is again subject we can talk for an hour now.
- We were not present when the Kraków ghetto was organized.
- Therefore, I cannot answer these questions.
- Anyway, and as far as the geographic situation
- was concerned, surrounding by the wall is relatively small
- part of the quarter, the quarter behind the Vistula--
- not even this part, which was considered
- historical Jewish ghetto in Kraków.
- The ghetto was in a so-called self-governing with Judenrat
- and under supervision of SS.
- A majority of people are going out
- of ghetto with a special passage to going
- to work outside the ghetto.
- And religious practices were formed accordingly, again,
- in different Orthodox and less Orthodox.
- The cultural-- there were no schools.
- There were no schools in ghetto as far as I know.
- There was some clandestine teaching of the children,
- but no organized school present.
- As far as the medical facilities was concerned,
- was one Jewish hospital, in which I work partially,
- and the other hospital for infectious diseases.
- The facilities in the hospital were very poor.
- The amount of medication was very limited.
- And the care was excellent because
- the immense concentration of doctors and nurses
- from the entire Jewish community.
- I was able to get work as a physician in the work camp
- a few miles from the ghetto.
- And I work over there, again, under guard
- of the German soldier in the morning,
- coming back to ghetto in the evening.
- And I also have so-called a little private practice,
- which usually was paid by some food and so on.
- We were living in a apartment together
- with the family of my wife, which was one large room, which
- was family of my wife, another family,
- and we all together in one room.
- It was approximately 14 people sleeping
- on the floors, and so-called beds,
- and so on-- one kitchen for entire family.
- Another question you got?
- Was there any resistance in the ghetto?
- Yeah And as soon as I came to ghetto, because
- of my previous involvement in the Zionist organization,
- I was approached to join the underground organization.
- And my activity was relatively limited to taking
- care of the wounded which were brought to the ghetto
- because they couldn't go to the hospital.
- The hospital only was where people
- who were on the service for Gestapo and who had
- reported this fact to them.
- So I and another female doctor were treating these wounded
- in private homes.
- And besides, later on, I was assigned.
- And I was able to secure a position
- as a deputy doctor in the prison within the ghetto.
- And the purpose of it was to maintain contact
- with members of the underground who were arrested
- and who were in ghetto.
- But were not attempt in ghetto itself for an armed resistance.
- But the ghetto-- from the ghetto,
- member of the resistance were going out
- to perform act of resistance outside and in the ghetto.
- And also, this organization was one of the--
- which was able to secure Polish identification cards.
- And among them, I was able to secure an identification
- card for my wife, whose appearance were not
- that Jewish.
- And therefore, I was trying to convince
- her to go out of the ghetto.
- But she refused to do it in spite of the fact
- that she had a good identification card outside.
- Was there any smuggling going on?
- Yes.
- It was a constant smuggling going on.
- And you couldn't-- in the beginning,
- the condition in ghetto were relatively benign.
- It was not-- it was no enormous effect of beating or shooting
- within the ghetto itself.
- And frequently, the people from the ghetto
- were arrested, and took out, and very frequently
- never heard again.
- And I was also once arrested.
- But because of the intervention of the chief medical officer
- of the prison, I was released before came in the morning.
- And therefore, was only within the Jewish Ordnungsdienst,
- which is police, Jewish police authority.
- And they released me.
- This situation changed markedly in October 1942,
- when the first so-called Aussiedlung and transport
- were organized within ghetto.
- And the first transport went to the death camp in Belzec.
- Again, through this effort from this underground organization,
- we are able to arrange so that some people, Polish people,
- follow up the trains.
- And after a few days, they came with information
- that the trains reached certain point in woods
- not far from Rava-Ruska, not far from Belzec.
- And after a few hours, they were coming back
- empty, with only clothes on it.
- The information brought to ghetto weren't--
- the people who are taking this transfer are probably killed.
- But the response of the--
- that leadership and the ghetto population in ghetto
- was that it was impossible.
- They refused to believe it.
- And that was the reason that so few people could possibly
- have opportunity to leave the ghetto
- and try to save themself outside the ghetto didn't do it.
- I didn't have this option because I
- didn't have any money.
- And my personal appearance was such
- that I was easily recognized as a Jew.
- And therefore, I couldn't get any--
- even the opportunity to hide outside the ghetto.
- There were more than one transport
- like this during the existence of ghetto.
- After each transport, the ghetto was--
- territory was smaller.
- The people were pushed together in the remaining
- part of the ghetto.
- Finally, on March 13, 1943, the ghetto was liquidated.
- The membership and the population of the ghetto
- was walked a few miles to concentration camp,
- which was not there.
- Was located in the neighborhood of Kraków.
- And people who were trying to hide
- and were staying in the ghetto were gradually discovered.
- And all of them were killed.
- And I was in a concentration camp.
- Most of the inhabitants of the prisoners of the concentration
- camp were leaving every morning to go to different places
- to work for Germans.
- I was also part of the group who was sent to a factory.
- After this factory was liquidated,
- I was assigned to work within the concentration camp.
- Part of the assignment was building houses and roads in--
- anyway, I did not work as a physician.
- You have any questions?
- And that camp was sent independently.
- Was in different units my wife and my mother.
- In the ghetto, I was able to put--
- correction, in the concentration camp,
- I was able to protect my mother, who because of her age,
- was exposed to almost weekly search for older people, who
- then were taken and killed.
- Can you describe the living conditions there, the food?
- We were living in large block with three tiers beds.
- And we was sleeping two or three on one bed.
- Every morning, we had to stand a long time
- to be counted in so-called Appellplatz.
- And the same situation was on--
- during evening, after we return from work.
- If somebody was missing from the group which went to work--
- frequently, rest of the group working with this person who
- ran away was taken to the execution place
- and killed, all of them, for this one--
- only the one person.
- What was the clothing like, the sanitary conditions,
- medical help, or anything like that?
- OK.
- At that time, we still wore clothing--
- our usual clothes.
- But the clothes was painted with stripes
- on the front and the back.
- And we have to openly wear an Jewish star on the left side
- on our underclothes.
- What were the sanitary conditions like?
- Sanitary conditions were big latrines
- near each block, which were used by most of the people.
- And it was crowd.
- And got quite a bit of lice present.
- And because the people were permitted
- to bring part of their belongings from the ghetto
- together with the belongings that they brought,
- also they bedbugs, which multiply within the camp
- and make especially sleeping very difficult
- in this condition.
- And therefore, there's-- and I don't remember a certain part
- of the room.
- Do you want me to?
- Is there anything about the medical care?
- There was one so-called block was a hospital.
- And it was a dispensary in which some Jewish doctor
- were in for treating the sick patient.
- The hospital was not very crowded
- because people were afraid to go to the hospital.
- Because frequently, the patient were taken during the night,
- and disappeared, and were killed.
- Why didn't you work as a physician?
- Because there was apparently too many
- physicians at time in camp.
- And besides, apparently, I didn't have proper influence
- in among these certain Jews which
- were incorporating with German.
- And they were deciding who should
- have a better job within the camp, and other works.
- Do you remember your first day in the camp and your reactions
- to it?
- I don't remember exactly, but if you want to,
- I can describe to you a certain episode is stuck to--
- in my mind, if you want to.
- Sure.
- Well, during the liquidation of ghetto and transfer
- of the population to concentration camp,
- the children were not permitted to go.
- And therefore, prior to liquidation ghetto,
- under German ordered all the children
- to be put in so-called children house.
- And some of the parents didn't trust German
- and kept the children at home.
- And then when the order came to liquidate ghetto and transfer
- to the camp, somehow, they were able on their backs
- and other ways to clandestinely move the children
- into the concentration camp.
- Was in the concentration, the children were temporarily,
- later on, removed from the blocks.
- It was impossible to hide them anymore.
- And they were put in near the hospital, a special children
- room.
- And I remember, one day, in--
- was a special security precaution visible in the camp.
- We all were left to the Appellplatz,
- [INAUDIBLE] surround them that the Gestapo
- and the Ukrainian security police in black clothes.
- And then rumors spread that the children
- were being-- are taken away.
- And two minutes later, could see the trucks moving upwards
- to get there.
- And that's when the children were taken and being taken--
- put on the trucks.
- And the trucks were moved along all this population that came
- standing in the Appellplatz.
- Going to switch sides.
- And you can hear children crying and calling,
- Mommy, Mommy from inside the covered truck.
- And on the Appellplatz floors were
- standing the mothers and fathers of the children, crying.
- And my recollection represent the fight
- between two instinct-- one instinct,
- the instinct of survival, and the other instinct an instinct
- of protection of your children.
- And nobody moved.
- And after a few minutes, the trucks disappeared.
- And the voices were stilled in the exception
- of crying on mothers and our [INAUDIBLE] and our standing
- groups.
- And a few minutes later, we all marched back
- to our usual working places.
- Can you describe the camp or--
- with the guard system, the officers, the way
- it was structured, how big it was?
- The camp was built on the territory of Jewish cemetery.
- And the headstones were used to build the streets
- within the camp.
- It was like a small hill and it was
- I don't remember how many living blocks.
- And the sides were on the blocks in which the-- some prisoners
- work on as tailors and other trades
- in preparing war material for Germany.
- The entire camp was surrounded by the electrified wire,
- double-wire fence.
- In between the two walls of wire was
- a place on which the guards were walking with dogs.
- And in each corner of the camp, there
- were watchtowers manned day and night with men
- with lights and machine--
- how do you call it--
- machine?
- Machine guns?
- --machine guns.
- And there were the other--
- Will you describe the guards?
- Most of the guards were in Bergen.
- And there were Ukrainian and Lithuanian soldiers,
- dressed in black.
- But they were supervised by German,
- who were officers of the camp supervisory.
- The camp commander was living in a special quarter
- outside the ghetto.
- And he was every day inside in a ghetto outside of the camp.
- And inside in the camp, he was supervising
- and frequently killing without any explanation people who--
- for no reason whatsoever.
- Were the guards hard on the prisoners?
- Yes, the guards were surrounding, frequently
- kicking, beating the sides.
- And it was an intra--
- internal Jewish police, which was transferred from ghetto
- to camp and who were--
- and they were helping the German to maintain order.
- And sometimes, they were more cruel than the others.
- So for some infraction of rules, flogging
- was frequently applied.
- And the flogging was performed by a guard
- and occasionally also by Jewish Ordnungsdienst.
- I remember, there was one episode
- of hanging of some prisoners in public place
- in front of all camp population.
- And this hanging was performed by Jewish prisoners
- who were forced to do it.
- And there was a small smuggling going on all the time
- because the people were coming and going to work
- and carrying in their clothes, under the clothes, foodstuff
- and so on.
- The currency was cigarettes and American dollars.
- Polish zloty was not frequently used.
- Will you describe the kapos and the punishment
- that they meted out?
- That was-- in this particular camp,
- the kapos was not very powerful.
- And I don't remember any adverse influence, as far
- as our kapo is concerned.
- Some of them were more or less cooperating with German
- to the degree.
- But let's say that one of the example of cooperation
- was that from time to time, the Jewish Ordnungsdienst
- and kapo received an order, you need
- to supply a list of elderly or sick people to the German.
- And then during the night, the people
- were picked up, taken to the special place within the camp,
- and killed, and thrown into the big ravine,
- and then the tractors covered their body with sand in that.
- This had-- it was done by a member of the Jewish police
- and many kapos together.
- Can you describe your daily work there,
- daily routine, what happened when you got up in the morning?
- After getting up in the morning, you know,
- I really don't remember the episode of eating or something
- there.
- Something was not-- it was not in my mind at that time.
- I don't remember what--
- how it was.
- But after washing superficially and the common places
- near latrine, everybody was washing
- and had to stand and be counted there
- in the so-called Appellplatz.
- And to there, we count.
- Then we were divided into the group
- according to work schedule.
- And then so during the time when I work in that building murals,
- I was given some shovels.
- And under direction of, again, a kapo.
- And we were digging out the headstones,
- carrying the headstones in the lorries to indicated places,
- and built the roads.
- Lasting impression on the camp was because it was a new camp,
- and it was not completed yet, and it was a mud all
- over the camp because of the 1,000 people
- trampling over the grass, which very quickly disappeared.
- And this always-- we were always wet.
- Our feet were always wet and always cold.
- And we are walking in the mud sometimes,
- and sometimes few inches deep, which
- make every new step and every work very difficult.
- As far as the sickness is concerned,
- as I said before, being sick is very dangerous because if you
- went to the hospital, the chances were
- that after a few days, the hospital was evacuated.
- And all the sick people were taken out.
- You didn't describe that to me enough of what
- happened during the day.
- Out in there, this work lasted at the noontime,
- during the noontime.
- As I said before, I don't remember eating in the camp--
- something I blacked out.
- Don't know why.
- At that time, we were not--
- that time, the starvation was not the main consideration
- for some reason.
- Apparently, we had enough to eat.
- And then after a half hour interruption during the midday
- work, until the--
- it was dark, and then we had to go again to the counting
- up in Appellplatz.
- And after we were dismissed, we went
- to our blocks, and to get our eating detentions,
- and line up for our meals.
- Shortly after was curfew was in force.
- And everybody had to stay within his blocks.
- So you had no contact with your family?
- Yes, then in this camp, it was mixed, male and female camp.
- And we have a contact in the family.
- We didn't live together.
- And my wife was living in the block with the women.
- My wife, my mother was work--
- living and working in that place.
- But we were able to meet each other between the evening,
- and call roll, and the curfew.
- What happened to the rest of your family during this period?
- What happened your father?
- Well, my father died when I was still in Lwów.
- And I never find exactly what happened.
- He was not a well man.
- And I don't know he was--
- because my mother was reluctant to talk about it.
- And I was-- and I don't know if he was killed, actually,
- by German or became sick, and because of the lack
- of medical attention, he died within few hours.
- As I said, my brother was in Palestine.
- My sister was killed in Radom, Poland, which is, again,
- a subject, a story how it was organized in this situation.
- Are you interested in telling?
- But that lasted until August 4, 1944, when I was--
- when the camp was in a state of liquidation
- because of approaching Russian front.
- Before you get to that, in the camp,
- was there any resistance that you know about?
- Yes, it was an organized group within the camp.
- And I was part of the leadership of the group.
- And again, I don't know if you want me to talk about it.
- This is involve me to the degree what is part of the history.
- Sure.
- Why don't you talk about that?
- Now, in the spring of 1944, the Soviet front
- moved so near to the camp that during the clear nights,
- we were able to see at night artillery
- firing in the distance.
- At that time, this organized group within the camp
- get information on the distance.
- And we are able to smuggle some amount of firearm
- into the camp.
- We also placed some of our members in strategic position
- within the camp.
- One was electrician who was in the central electrical station
- and who was-- would be, if necessary,
- able to interrupt the flow of the electric current
- through the wire fence around the camp.
- And I remember vividly that we had one clandestine meeting
- of this leadership of this group, which consisted
- that time of loosely-organized units, which all together maybe
- 400 to 500 young men and women.
- And the situation which was presented to us is as follows.
- The Polish resistance told us that they will not
- be able to hurt us.
- They will able to sell us, not give us a little more firearm.
- But after, in case we are break out of the camp,
- we will be on our own.
- And will be up to us to go east through the German line,
- and then go to the Soviet Union.
- They also told us, there are no partisan group
- in this particular section of Poland.
- And the decision has to be made what to do.
- We are possibly-- we will be successful to help
- to organize a breakout in the camp of approximately 400
- to 500 young people.
- Due to the organization, we had an impossibility
- to remove the lights and electricity from the wire.
- And we know where to go.
- We know the surroundings of the camp.
- From the other camp, it was a stated and implemented
- German policy that for every prisoner who escaped from camp,
- a group of other prisoners was killed.
- And we have to make a decision.
- Do we have a right, in order to question our chance,
- for a group of 400 to 500 people to get out of the camp,
- not talking about their ability to defend themselves,
- and to go through hostile Polish territory,
- and through the German front to the Russian front,
- or to hide in some place, and for indefinite period
- because nobody knew if and when Russian front will move again?
- And according to the history, the Russian and other
- approximately eight months to move to attack again.
- Do we have a right, in order to possibly save these few hundred
- lives, expose rest of the camp to retaliation
- by German, which could be very cruel
- and take the chance of survival of an enormous number,
- going in 1,000 members of the camp?
- And after very deep discussion and consideration,
- a group of five men sitting in there,
- they say that we have no right to expose
- these people to this danger.
- And therefore, we didn't go through with our plan
- to break out of camp.
- A few days later, possibly due to the--
- somebody who tipped the German, some members of the group
- were arrested.
- And I was sent to camp in Auschwitz
- together with a group of 5,000 men.
- From-- I was in Auschwitz three days.
- But I didn't permitted out of the train.
- And probably again, because of the fact that the German--
- Russian front was so near, and the train proceed.
- And we wind up in concentration camp Mauthausen.
- Before we get to Mauthausen, can you
- describe anything else about the camp, such as were there
- any cultural, political, or religious activities
- in Plaszów?
- I don't-- there were people who have been performing
- their daily routines.
- There were people who were trying to observe kashrut.
- And as far as the cultural life, it was, as far as I am aware,
- was not existent at all.
- So after your arrest, you were transferred
- by open or closed train?
- We were in closed--
- enclosed train, a cattle--
- Cattle car.
- --cattle car.
- And was approximately--
- I don't remember-- 60 men in each car.
- And we were on our way for approximately five days or six
- days.
- Was very little food was given.
- And most important, very little water was given.
- And it was in August.
- The heat was enormous inside.
- And we are suffering from thirst and hunger enormous.
- So you finally arrived in Mauthausen.
- Could you describe what happened when
- you arrived at this camp, what your reactions were?
- We arrived to this station.
- There was few-- railroad station was few miles from the camp.
- And then we have to walk to the camp this few miles.
- And not only walk to the camp, we
- have to carry the dead and the sick.
- And I remember carrying somebody who probably was dead already
- together with another prisoners for quite a distance.
- The camp was situated in the mountain, looks like a fort.
- And when we arrive in the Appellplatz over there,
- we have disrupt completely and with all our belongings
- on the floor.
- A small selection was performed.
- But very few, obviously sick and dead people
- were taking away, probably to the gas chamber.
- And the rest of prisoners were herded into the showers.
- And after going through the showers, each of us
- was shaved our head.
- And other part of the body was shaved.
- And we are giving our camp uniforms,
- consisting of the striped pants and striped blouse.
- And then you have to assemble again on the Appellplatz.
- And that time, the German requested all the physician
- in the group to report to one of the German.
- The idea was that this big group was supposed
- to be divided in smaller groups and sent to different working
- camps, which were not affiliated with Mauthausen.
- And with each group, one physician should--
- was supposed to be attached to.
- And for this group of doctors who
- came from concentration camp in Poland
- to Mauthausen, in order to go to the so-called Krankenrevier,
- these hospital blocks in other part,
- in a separate part of the camp.
- The most vivid remembrance of the day when it came to camp
- was, first of all, we were enormously hungry,
- especially are very thirsty.
- And therefore, they gave us water,
- were drinking enormous amount of water.
- Another remembrance was difficulty
- of defecation because of the dehydration,
- because of lack of water during a long journey,
- the stool was dry, hard, and in passing it,
- was an enormously painful and exhausting experience,
- very frequently causing bleeding.
- And after this, I was--
- I have a pain in my rectum for a few days.
- But again, I was afraid to admit to any sickness.
- When we came to this new location,
- first impression was that the people
- were so enormously hungry, so much so, we are not--
- I was unable to eat at that time what they serve as a food.
- And therefore, I would eat only part of it.
- And the rest was eagerly taken by the other prisoners.
- I didn't understand that time how hungry they can get.
- Later on, I find out what it means to be really hungry.
- When you were in this camp were you transported with any
- of your friends or family?
- Or you were alone at this point?
- I was together with two of my brothers-in-law
- who was transferred to the same camp.
- And they were-- shortly after that,
- I was shipped to the other camp, working camp,
- around the mountains.
- Again, can you describe the camp location, size, the guards,
- the kapos, the security?
- It was an old camp.
- It was organized by Germans shortly
- after they occupied Austria.
- It was located near Linz in Austria
- in the beautiful mountains.
- And the blocks were large, were very solidly built.
- And the sanitary facilities, again,
- was a common latrine and common water.
- And you can wash everything a few hundred yards
- from the block.
- Because it was a so-called sick block,
- it was-- no work was performed.
- And then early in the morning, we were woken up.
- And it was nice weather.
- We were counted outside the block.
- It was in a bad weather, we were permitted
- to stay within the block.
- And then we had to spend the time again.
- If the nice weather outside, weather
- was bad, inside the blocks.
- And everybody was receiving, if I remember,
- small piece of bread a day and one container
- of so-called soup a day.
- And in the evening, we were receiving so-called coffee
- drink.
- Because the camp was old, they developed
- a internal self-government.
- Most of them were people who were there for many years
- and who had contact with German.
- We have there in this particular camp, our contact with German
- and with Gestapo, SS was limited because of the fact
- that our kapo and other members of the staff on our block
- were old prisoners who had quite a bit of authority,
- as far as we are concerned.
- Again, camp was surrounded by electric--
- by wire fences, electrified wire fences and towers every so
- often, with lights and guards in the towers 24 hours a day.
- Test-- one, two, three.
- Can you describe the kapos?
- Our kapo Blockalteste, I remember very well.
- He was a professional burglar from Vienna, very decent man
- as well as other--
- that is concerned, who were behaving quite decently.
- And he was one of the few guards who, after the liberation,
- could freely move among the prisoners
- and nobody touched him, nobody didn't accuse him
- of any other unkindness toward the prisoners and they call it.
- And there are other members of the staff,
- of the block, was a Turkish doctor
- for a relatively short while, which was also very, very
- decent, or the other members, who were carrying--
- bringing the food to the camp.
- And they divided it among prisoners, and keeping records,
- and so on.
- But in this particular period, I didn't have any experience.
- And I didn't witness any abuse, cruelty toward the prisoners
- in this particular block.
- I'm talking only on this part of the camp, which
- was called sick bay.
- I understand that in camp proper was quite a bit of cruelty.
- And one of the punishment was so-called Strafkommando,
- in this punishment detail, which were
- carrying special sign in the form
- of a red circle on their back.
- And they were living separately.
- And they were fed separately.
- And among other work what they had to perform,
- they were carrying and working in the--
- how you call it--
- stone--
- Close it out.
- --stone quarry.
- And they were working in a stone quarry, which
- had almost 999 steps or something like that,
- very steep steps.
- And that was part of the punishment
- was go over the plot.
- I would like to talk about hunger because this
- is something which was pervasive and was influenced everything
- and everybody in the camp.
- As I said, we were getting these small pieces of bread.
- And the hunger is progressing of war.
- The food was getting worse and worse.
- And the amount of this was getting smaller and smaller.
- And every morning, again, the prisoners
- were going looking into the beds and pulling the dead bodies.
- And frequently, so the body was mutilated which was indication
- that part of the flesh of the dead people
- were cut out with other prisoner, they use as a food.
- But to give you some idea what food can--
- what hunger can do to the people,
- I remember vividly one scene.
- And that time, we were all naked because was epidemics
- of typhus fever in camp.
- And in order to avoid fighting with louse,
- our clothes were taken away from us.
- And we are completely naked.
- I remember, one afternoon, we were already in our bed
- because it was a rainy day.
- And the people who were carrying the big pails of soup
- came to the camp, came inside the block.
- One of them tripped.
- The pail tilted over.
- And most of the container of the camp--
- of the soup spilled on the floor.
- Within a second, a group of naked men
- jump off his bed, kneel on the floors, and all with her hands
- are licking from the floor, are eating this spilled soup
- on the floor until the other members of the staff
- came and chased them away back to their bed.
- This picture of almost animal-looking creatures,
- licking the soup from the floor was always remember and remain
- my memory.
- And then I can tell you what people
- can do when they're hungry.
- Doesn't-- when they're hungry in this situation,
- and then gradually nothing is left but the instinct of self
- survival.
- And that is left, there is no survival.
- And therefore, sometimes, people were
- dying not because of sickness, because they simply gave up.
- Can you describe what you did every day at the camp
- and how you were a physician?
- No, I was not a physician.
- I'm supposed to be assigned to a group.
- But in meantime, apparently, the German officer,
- whose plan was to assign the doctors to the group,
- after a few doctors were assigned and transferred,
- it was-- he himself was transferred to other position.
- And apparently, we were forgotten
- that the group of doctors is sitting over there.
- We didn't do anything all day long.
- We are waiting for our assignment.
- And then we didn't work as a physician.
- This position was taken by the prisoners who were already
- there before we arrived because that
- was very-- the position was giving certain privileges.
- They were able to work in clothes
- and have a little more food.
- But in one day, I think, in February or March 1944,
- rumors spread that our block, which
- was consisting of Jewish prisoners,
- will be sent to the gas chamber next day.
- We didn't have any option.
- But the so-called prisoners who were there,
- like kapos, doctors, and other staff,
- they have connection in the camp.
- And therefore, within a few hours, all of them
- transferred from our camp.
- Most of them were not Jews.
- All of them were not Jews.
- With the exception of the kapo, all of them
- transferred to other blocks.
- And suddenly, our block consisted of a few hundred men
- was left completely without a staff.
- Was nobody there to bring the food, nobody
- there to count the--
- make a head count of the prisoners, and so on.
- And then some German officer came to the--
- was called to the block by the Blockalteste.
- And the situation was explained to him.
- And then he asked, are there any doctors among prisoners?
- The few doctors who were still there jump out of their bed.
- And I was one of them.
- And he ordered to give them clothes
- and let them run the block.
- And that was few weeks prior to the end
- of the war and liberation.
- And maybe this episode saved my life because from that time on,
- I was able to sleep with only one other prisoner on the bed,
- not in four and five.
- And I was able walk around.
- And I was clothed.
- And instead of one in container of soup,
- I was getting daily two container of soup.
- My function were that I have to take
- care of the sick within this hospital block.
- Again, I remember a situation.
- A prisoner came to me with a huge abscess
- under the pectoralis major muscle
- of the chest full of pus.
- And I sterilized in fire a regular knife.
- And I make incision of this enormous abscess
- and letting the pus out.
- And I don't know what happened to the prisoners
- later on because it was enormous amount of prisoners, not
- a large number of prisoners.
- Is impossible to follow up on the patient.
- But at least I was able to relieve this severe pain
- he had in this abscess.
- That was the practice medicine.
- And one of this serious problem was diarrhea.
- And we didn't have any medication for it.
- One of the other medical problems
- was scabies, which is considered a harmless condition.
- But the condition we were there--
- scratching was invitation to [NON-ENGLISH]..
- And the [NON-ENGLISH] was certain death,
- unless somebody has cigarettes or some other means to buy
- himself medication that was used, Prontosil,
- which is a sulfur medication, which was--
- they were able to buy from the German members
- of the medical staff outside our block.
- Did you have any-- did they give you any medicine to work with?
- No, they didn't give me any medicine to work with.
- I remember, once, I asked the medical officer,
- German medical officer, for some medication for diarrhea.
- And his answer was don't give them to eat.
- And then they stop having diarrhea.
- So what could you do?
- I actually-- was no way to help anybody besides watching
- that they were washing themselves if necessary
- and try to relieve the sickness by cold compresses.
- And in case of temperature, as I describe before,
- is opening of the abscesses, and so on.
- But it was no medical practice.
- There were different kinds of people in your block
- from different countries?
- Yes, it was a very mixed group.
- And we came, the majority of the people was Jewish from Hungary,
- was also Jewish from Greece, was other Jews from France,
- from Holland, of course, from Poland, from Germany,
- from Austria.
- Were you able to talk with them?
- Yes, I was able to talk with some of them in German
- because that was the language each of them
- have to use, at least in order to communicate
- with our captors.
- And again, as I give you a small picture.
- I became friendly with a Jew from France.
- I remember him a very nice fellow.
- I don't know what he did before the war.
- But he was always very optimistic,
- and very well-built, and had plenty of muscles.
- I don't know what was he doing on this sick bay.
- But nobody asked these questions.
- And then I remember, once, that he came to me
- and told me, listen, I don't believe that any of us
- will ever survive.
- And in spite of his argument, he persisted
- in this sudden loss of confidence and loss of hope,
- he was dead in three days, no sickness, simply gave up.
- Was there any resistance in the camp?
- Not of I know.
- The German were proudly stating that
- during the existence of this cow--
- camp Mauthausen, no one escaped and that the escape was
- impossible because later on, for instance,
- they introduce another, let's say, mark.
- They were cutting a wide strip through our hair
- from the forehead to the back and leaving
- the rest of the hair on the both sides of the head.
- First of all, it was much faster than removing the entire head--
- entire hair.
- Secondly, in case somebody escaped,
- even if they were able to secure different clothes,
- and even if he would shave his head,
- everybody right away could see that something wrong with it
- because of this exposure to sun, this,
- even after shaving completely the head,
- this strip on our head will be still visible to anybody
- who looked at it.
- It was one of the method of preventing escape.
- Were there any cultural, or religious,
- or political activities going on?
- I don't know of any political activities.
- There were some kind inside the block cultural,
- you can call it, activities.
- There are some people singing arias, and again,
- expecting that in exchange for it,
- some prisoners given something to eat,
- and other prisoners singing German song, Polish song,
- and so on.
- But it was actually all activities.
- What do you attribute your survival?
- Luck.
- Is the one expression we always--
- anytime when somebody asks me, how I say, well,
- they always answer me.
- Because I saw people who were consider
- themselves very smart by making arrangements
- and didn't survive.
- And I saw simple people who were no qualification.
- And for some reason, I survive.
- Situation, luck, I don't know.
- When you were liberated, you were
- liberated by the Americans?
- Yes, I was.
- Were you liberated with any family or friends
- at that point?
- This is again a story.
- On April 28, we get the notice that a group of woman prisoners
- came to the camp.
- Mauthausen up to this day was only male camp.
- And then they requested that the so-called Pflegers,
- you can actually-- male nurses from our camp
- went up to the main camp in order
- to assist in the selection and the separation of the new woman
- prisoners.
- I remember vividly, was maybe 2:00 AM
- and one of these male nurses came running to our--
- to the camp, toward me, yelling, your wife
- is upstairs in the main camp.
- And she is coming down.
- And of course, I got up.
- And I tried to go up to the main camp.
- I was unable to do it.
- So I waited in the entrance of our camp.
- Finally, a few hours later, my wife came down to the sick bay
- because she was sick.
- She was sick with typhus fever.
- She was very sick.
- She was so small.
- Her face was so small.
- She was so pain.
- She couldn't swallow anything.
- Saliva was coming out her mouth.
- She was almost skin and bone, very few hairs
- left on her head.
- She was put together with the other woman in a--
- one block which was prepared for them.
- And that time, I had some food because a few weeks
- prior to this episode, the Red Cross
- brought the packages from Switzerland
- only for Jews, Jewish prisoners.
- I don't know why only for Jewish prisoners,
- but only Jewish prisoners received the packages.
- And I still have some food left from this package.
- And I was trying to give it to my wife.
- And she was unable to eat.
- The only thing I could give her at that time in supply
- was so-called tea, boiled water with some leaves in it.
- And gradually, very gradually, she overcame the sickness.
- A few days later, on May 5, we were liberated.
- We knew that something is going on
- because most of the German guard left,
- leaving only very few elderly men in German uniform,
- [INAUDIBLE] from the German Army.
- And the gas chamber was not working,
- crematorium was not working.
- And within the camp, the dead body
- was piled at least six feet high, one after the other,
- at least 100 yards long inside the confinement of the camp
- because was no way to dispose of them.
- And people were dying daily from sickness, hunger.
- And then the morning of May 5, we heard the voices, Americans.
- Americans came, one tank, maybe five soldiers.
- They stopped at the entrance of the camp.
- They collected the rest of the German guards
- and took them away, told them to govern ourselves
- for next few days.
- Because the few days, the rest of the American army will come.
- And they will come over.
- And also, still see in front of me
- the hundreds of naked men running and surrounding
- this one American tank.
- Still remember hundreds of naked men running
- toward these American, to American tanks,
- and a few young American soldiers sitting on the tanks,
- [? rooted. ?] Disbelief.
- And then they withdrawn.
- And we were left alone.
- And then so-called justice was done.
- Some of the kapos in the camps were attacked, some of them
- killed.
- We opened the magazines in the camp
- and find out that there were thousands
- of tablets of sulfur drugs over there,
- which were not able to receive during the war for bandages
- and medication in the magazines.
- We were not able to receive them.
- Some of the magazines were full of old clothes.
- About two, three days later, the American came.
- And shortly after there, the evacuation hospital came.
- And Americans started to reorganize the camp.
- Do we need to talk about it?
- How were you feeling at this time?
- Were you sick?
- No, I was one of those people who were able to walk.
- I was one of two or three doctors and this Jewish bloke.
- Then very quickly, I find out that the war
- didn't change anything as far as the antisemitism was concerned.
- We received the order from the American authorities
- not to-- to liquidate the Jewish block,
- to transfer the Polish sick prisoners
- to Polish blocks, Hungarian to Hungarian blocks, and so on.
- Because I was the one who was dressed, who was able to walk,
- who was able to transfer, I was transferring sometimes
- on stretcher these Polish Jewish prisoners to Polish blocks.
- And again, I find out the world didn't
- change much as far as the Polish antisemitism is concerned.
- When you are bringing these sick person to the Polish blocks,
- some of the prisoners over there asked the question,
- are you a Polish or Pole?
- Was a code work.
- This way, they knew right away are you Jewish
- or are you not Jewish.
- Shortly after the liberation, we tried
- to organize a Jewish committee to take
- care of the need of Jewish prisoners,
- which possibly a majority over there.
- And we went to the American commandant of the camp.
- I still remember, his name was Captain Levy.
- And we asked him to give us the official authorization.
- And he refused, stating that we are,
- and I quote, "we American didn't fight this war and Hitler
- so you again be separated according
- to the religious line.
- You are from Poland, go to Polish committee.
- You are from Hungary, go to Hungarian committee."
- But he learned his lesson very quickly.
- Few hours later, he called us again.
- And he said, now, I understand your situation,
- and give us official authorization
- to organize Jewish committee.
- Because already, fights between Jews and non-Jews
- in other blocks, Polish and the Hungarian block took place.
- What happened after you were liberated?
- Where did you go?
- What-- did you search for family?
- Or what happened?
- Did you find out what happened to the rest of your family?
- As far as my family is concerned,
- I knew that my sister was not alive.
- My brother, according to my information was in Palestine.
- And I didn't expect any of the members of my family
- to survive.
- And the decision was, first of all,
- I was quickly put to work by American authorities.
- First one too.
- As I mentioned before, a few days
- prior liberation, a large group of female came to the camp.
- Quite a number of them were sick with typhus fever.
- And besides, we have quite a number of--
- and quite a number of them were sick with tuberculosis.
- American requested that doctors who were present
- came to cooperate with them, organize the hospital there.
- And I was put in charge of one part of the hospital
- containing approximately 500 female sick
- with typhus fever and tuberculosis,
- among other sicknesses.
- And I was with my wife that time.
- I was given a room to live in.
- And I was trying to take care of these sick women.
- Meantime, the Americans supply us with intravenous fluids.
- And so we were able to help some of the patients
- with typhus fever to survive.
- The typhus fever was an entity almost
- unknown to American doctors.
- And therefore, they used the European doctors
- to take care of these patient.
- They also knew very little about tuberculosis.
- And therefore, they ask me because of my experience
- in tuberculosis during the war to organize this block.
- And I did.
- One of the problem was nourishment because the food
- we were receiving from this kitchen was very rich,
- greasy food, which were-- that our sick people could not
- possibly digest.
- After discussion with the medical staff
- of this evacuation hospital, we got a permission
- to the food supply that is now in our sick block
- consisted mostly of key--
- white American bread and then, gradually, was changed.
- And other-- and I was active, as I mentioned before,
- in this Jewish committee.
- And it was American zone.
- And very soon, the Jewish Brigade
- get in touch with our camp because we find out
- that was quite a number of young children and young people
- present in the camp.
- And Jewish Brigade was trying to organize the youth Aliyah.
- They were not allowed to travel in the American zone.
- And therefore, they travel surreptitiously.
- And I supplied them with a place to stay.
- And within a few weeks, they were--
- and they organized the children.
- And somehow, there was help of some American Jewish officers
- were able to transfer the children to the English zone.
- And from English zone, then they transferred them to Italy,
- and from Italy to Palestine.
- So what-- where did you go next?
- A few weeks after liberation, the rumors
- spread in this part of the side of the Danube River
- will be taken over as--
- by Soviet Union.
- And we didn't want to go again under Soviet Union domination.
- We refused.
- And we had opportunity to go back to Poland.
- But after consideration and advice
- from our Polish friend in camp, we
- decided not to go to Poland at that time,
- especially we are quite convinced that there is
- nobody there to look forward.
- And so after the rumors spread the Russian are taking
- over this side of Danube, we moved over
- to Linz, where a group of refugee camp was organized
- and by American.
- From there, with the help of Jewish Brigade,
- we moved to Salzburg.
- And from Salzburg, we were smuggled again
- through the Austrian-Italian border by Jewish Brigade
- to Italy because we are directing ourselves
- toward Palestine.
- Why did you have to be smuggled?
- Because it was not permitted for the prisoners,
- the ex-prisoner-- displaced person--
- this was a new term used-- displaced person
- to move from one country to the other,
- from one zone to the other.
- And especially the English were aware
- of the attempt of Jewish Brigade to rescue these Jews
- from these camps and transfer them to this situation
- where they could be clandestinely transferred
- to Palestine.
- So you weren't actually in one of the displaced persons camps,
- were you?
- Now, when we came to Italy, then I
- volunteered to go to one of these displaced person
- camp, which was organized that time by the Jewish Brigade
- and Jewish authorities from Palestine as a kibbutz
- Hakhshara.
- And I was assigned to one of these kibbutzim
- in a small Italian village.
- And what did you do there?
- Over there, I was in charge of medical facilities.
- And a bit earlier, I was taking care of sick people
- that were in that--
- waiting for possibility to emigrate to Palestine.
- And what happened?
- Now, this is another story.
- When we came to this--
- to Italy and we came to some transition camp,
- and all these clandestine people from Austria, Germany
- was transferred by Jewish Brigade, this place, which
- was surrounded by the camps of Jewish Brigade,
- and they were making lists of all new arrivals
- during the evening.
- And the member of the Jewish Brigades
- were coming, looking for the members
- of the family which possibly were saved-- friends and so on.
- And as soon as my and my wife name was put on the list,
- we find ourself as surrounded by the people who knew us
- and from our time in youth Zionist organization in Poland.
- And next evening, quite a large group,
- maybe 80 members of this organization,
- came to see us and ask us if they heard.
- Through one of this group, I sent a telegram to my brother
- in Palestine.
- But my brother, who was convinced already at that time
- that nobody was left and nobody from the family is alive,
- decided to leave Palestine and move
- to United States, where his sister-in-law was living
- in Scranton, Pennsylvania.
- This telegram I sent to him to Haifa
- was sent from there to Scranton, Pennsylvania,
- and from Scranton, Pennsylvania was sent to Lisbon, Portugal,
- where my brother was waiting for an immigration opportunity
- to-- in the United States.
- And from there, I finally received some--
- and he received sign of life from me.
- And finally, I received a letter from him.
- Then during my stay in Italy, I was informed by my friends
- from Palestine that if I want to practice medicine in Palestine,
- I should not come to Palestine illegal way.
- And there's another story.
- Then the friends of mine in Palestine secured for me
- and my wife a special certificate for so-called
- Vatikim, means the--
- a Zionist who because of their work
- are entitled to special consideration.
- And after a few months in Italy, I got notification from Rome
- to report to the Palestine office
- of the Jewish Agency in Rome because I
- am on the list of this certificate.
- And I went to Rome.
- It took me three days from Bologna
- to Rome in the situation.
- And I confirmed the fact that I am on the list.
- And I was told that as soon as they get first certificate
- for Italy, I would be notified.
- In meantime, the illegal immigration was taking place.
- And the British authorities, when
- they caught this illegal boats going toward Palestine,
- they put the people on the camp in Cyprus.
- And all the certificates from Cyprus
- were directed to-- all the certificate
- for immigration to Palestine went to Cyprus.
- And there some people from camp over there,
- they may go to Palestine.
- In this way, the situation which I
- was supposed to have the priority in immigration
- to Palestine was off.
- In meantime, my brother was sending letters and asking
- that because of the--
- we were left of our entire family,
- why should he be in the United States
- and now go to Palestine when we can be together
- in United States?
- So I apply for immigration.
- And after waiting for four years,
- I was able to immigrate to United States.
- It is a very short description or long term,
- which quite interesting the episode during this time too.
- So looking back over your experiences,
- can you say anything about your feelings
- about what happened over those years between your time,
- how it influenced your values or what kept you going,
- any kind of feeling there?
- What kept me going?
- Somehow, possibly subconsciously, I was hopeful
- that I will survive.
- I was and has been a Zionist all my life.
- And one of my ideals was to go to Palestine,
- and settle there, and work there.
- Didn't work this way.
- I'm still a Zionist, but I'm in the United States.
- And it possibly did it.
- And besides, when I look at it, as you
- asked me to look at it back, maybe these
- are this instinct on survival, instinct of survival, which
- keeps you going, which helps you without thinking, that even
- independently, regardless of the circumstance.
- And there's still the instinct to survive.
- Lesson I learned from it?
- Lesson learned from that is the worst enemies of the people
- are other people.
- Lesson I learn from it--
- can happen again.
- Lesson I learn from it--
- Why do you think it can happen again?
- Because a hatred exists, differences exist.
- The tendency of people to look for some scapegoat for anything
- exist.
- We are witnessing now the increase of antisemitisms
- all over the world.
- And even within our Jewish community, during the war,
- the German Jews looked down and hate the Ostjuden, the Eastern
- Jews.
- And the-- when we met Hungarian in the camp,
- they were against the Polish Jews.
- Polish and Hungarian Jews were against the Romanian Jews.
- If we was in--
- if this-- that reminds me again.
- After I arrived in Italy, a members
- of our Zionist movement from before the war came to see me.
- And then they requested that I became active
- in this particular group of Zionist movement.
- And I told them, listen, after all what this--
- what happened, how can you again so
- be split in this group, and this group, and this subgroup?
- And I remember, the friend of mine look at me and said,
- you are in camp.
- But among us, the life went the same way.
- Not much change.
- And he was right.
- Not much changed.
- And the small antagonism, even hatred
- in one group against other in a group and so on, it persist.
- What other lesson is?
- Said sometimes, even in the bleakest circumstances,
- you find kind people.
- But you also find people who are possibly bad.
- How religious were you after the war in comparison
- to before the war?
- That is a difficult question because I was not
- very believing--
- you may use this expression--
- before the war.
- Did these experiences make me to believe
- more is very hard to answer because maybe some people were
- saved by--
- because some reason.
- From the other sides, I saw pious people,
- I saw very valuable people, observant people who
- didn't survive, who suffered.
- And I don't know.
- Sometimes, the question ask, if there
- somebody who directs this--
- that looks over this world, how this someone or something
- permit something to happen, permit something
- like that to happen, permit something
- like that to happen like throwing small children
- through the window--
- from the window on the street from high floors?
- I don't know that.
- If I observe certain Jewish tradition now,
- is because this is manifestation of my Jewishness.
- How much faith in it?
- I don't know, cannot answer it honestly because sometimes,
- I couldn't answer it.
- What kinds of feelings do you have about being Jewish?
- I wouldn't change it.
- If I would put in situation somebody asked me
- if you would have be--
- can be born again, would you choose the same--
- to be born the same way?
- Probably, yes.
- But sometimes, I meet the especially young people.
- And I told them that I believe is important maintaining
- a Jewishness and Jewish nation.
- And they asked me, why?
- What is so important in it?
- Sometimes, I'm-- the situation is difficult find answer.
- May be something in me which belongs
- to this maintenance of the Jewishness,
- and a Jewish nation, and Jewish work, and the attachment
- to the Israel, attachment to Jewish tradition,
- Jewish beliefs, and somehow, concerned that maybe,
- this few thousand years' history of Jewish people is--
- maybe is not going to last another
- 1,000, a few thousand years.
- It is a very, very personal thing to answer.
- Sometimes, you cannot put it properly in the words.
- Over the years, did you talk about your experiences?
- And if so, with whom?
- I never attempt to do as I attempt
- this time to go through the history
- of my experiences, which is very short, omitted quite a bit.
- But sometimes, I have to talk about it.
- And was always painful.
- Who did you talk about it with?
- Well, I talk to you shortly, some years ago when
- you asked for it.
- And after a few years ago, it was
- tendency among survivors of the Holocaust
- to, if I may use this expression,
- to compare their experiences.
- And therefore, we were talking.
- And somehow, whenever the group of the survivors
- met for any reason, somehow, frequently, the conversation
- tend to go toward the experiences
- during the Holocaust years.
- Did you talk about it with your wife?
- Yes, talk about it.
- But we don't dwell to it.
- We are interested.
- But we cut up all the different experiences.
- Everybody experienced this situation very personally,
- very differently.
- And your mother was--
- had a, to a degree, sheltered life
- up to the beginning of the war because she was--
- besides the school, she was not much in contact
- with the non-Jewish world.
- I was in different situation.
- And I was in a Polish school, Polish university.
- And I had to deal with Polish authorities
- as a representative of the organization which I belong to.
- And there was experiences before the war.
- During the war, we are sometimes together, sometimes separately.
- And I said, everybody's response to it is different.
- What was your motivation in having your first child?
- How did you feel?
- And what kind of values did you try to transmit?
- We wanted to have a child.
- We were looking forward.
- We were not young.
- But was not a deliberate decision.
- Simply, it was a period of our life
- that we came to conclusion that it's time for it,
- to have a family.
- Fortunately, we had you.
- We wanted more, couldn't have it.
- And I loved you very much.
- I didn't have this problem that the fathers are--
- start the life the child after he is born and so on.
- But we wanted to--
- I don't understand what you just said.
- Some men are afraid of parenthood, men.
- And they are, let's say, have ambivalent feeling
- during the wife's pregnancy and even
- sometimes after the baby is born.
- And the question of arrival with the child.
- But I didn't went through this at all.
- What I wanted to transmit to you?
- I don't know, to be a good person,
- to be a kind, understanding, tolerant person,
- to be a good Jew, to be happy.
- I don't know if this is too much to ask or not much enough.
- I always believed that my role, as far as you are concerned,
- is a support and that--
- and decision pertaining to life should be yours.
- I still believe that is the case.
- Whenever you need me, I try to be as helpful and supportive
- as possible.
- I wish you enjoy your life more than you do.
- I wish you have the ability to enjoy moments and days.
- Because what I never not understand
- is when we go back to you asking me, what was the lesson of it--
- not to plan too far in advance and to kind of live every day
- without worrying too much about what's
- going to happen tomorrow, in a year from tomorrow,
- five years from tomorrow.
- And neither that doesn't correspond to responsibilities.
- I know that everybody is supposed
- to plan what's going to do, that kind of arrangement,
- and anything.
- And-- [AUDIO OUT]
- What kind of reception did you receive from non-survivors?
- Were you able to share your experiences
- with other survivors, with non-survivors?
- In answer to this question, I would
- have to divide this in a period after the war.
- Immediately after the war was a period when the survivors
- actually didn't mixed--
- this for me, when I was working in Italy, was--
- we didn't mix with not survivors.
- And meeting survivors, as I said before,
- frequently compare our experiences.
- And actually, I could say that I was reluctant to talk about it.
- And I possibly perceived reluctance of the population
- around me to talk about these experiences.
- They were all too fresh in the memory.
- Later on, when we came to United States
- again, among our survivors, in spite
- of the fact that we were trying not to go back to these times,
- frequently, the conversation tend to veer toward this--
- to these experiences.
- We didn't talk too much with not--
- the American population, the people who didn't--
- who were not in Europe.
- Then approximately three years ago,
- especially after the mini series Holocaust on television,
- there was much more interest in this subject and encounter more
- curiosity from the public population.
- And in proper circumstances, we told the people
- about these experiences.
- Did you join any survivor organizations?
- If so, why?
- A few years after arrival United States,
- they organized a organization from the survivor
- who were born in Kraków and around Kraków.
- And I was invited to join and of course,
- join it from the beginning.
- First of all, I am a joiner.
- And I always worked and supported an organization.
- And secondly, the purpose of it was manifold.
- Firstly, we want to organize in order to help Israel, secondly,
- to help ourself.
- But I perceive the building of the organization,
- sustaining it.
- And the organization is very active and very successful.
- I interpret it as that the people were
- in need of substitute families.
- They were quite a bit alone.
- The process of assimilating in the even
- Jewish American surrounding was not easy,
- and especially, was not easy for me.
- But I find out that it was not also easy to many other people.
- And this lack of-- because of the lack of the family
- and the--
- the organization was served as a substitute of the family.
- Did you apply for reparations?
- Why or why not?
- Yes, I applied for reparations.
- And I'm still receiving a monthly pension from Germany.
- Why did you apply for that?
- Because I believe that the German are obligated
- to at least partially repay for the experiences, for the losses
- we suffered during the Holocaust.
- Do you think that the money that you get is a compensation?
- It is a considerate compensation.
- And of course, they cannot really--
- nobody can repay for all these losses
- of the family and tearing out of your grounds that you--
- you used to be.
- But I am--
- I do believe that is the right thing to do.
- And therefore, we apply for--
- I apply for it.
- And after due process, I am receiving this certain amount
- of money monthly.
- What language was or what languages
- were primarily spoken at home?
- Polish.
- Language was spoken at home was Polish.
- Well, how about in this country?
- In this country?
- When we are alone with my wife, we speak still Polish--
- not because of any ideological motivation, simply
- because that is the language we grew up with and study.
- And is the most easy for us to express ourselves in Polish.
- But after Danny was born, in order to make easy for him,
- and not to confuse him, in his presence,
- we spoke only English.
- Granted, whenever our friends came home,
- was sometimes difficult to keep the general conversation
- in English because we and our friends
- tend to switch to Polish because it was easier to express
- ourselves in this language.
- What kind of feelings do you have about the United
- States in which you now live?
- I love the United States.
- I am grateful for the opportunities given to me here.
- I consider this the best place to live.
- And I never felt so free as I am feeling now.
- And certainly, I will not switch to another place.
- What kind of feelings--
- what did you try to communicate to your child
- about the Holocaust and why?
- As a principle, I believe it is very important
- that the memory of the Holocaust doesn't
- disappear with the disappearance of the survivor
- of the Holocaust.
- And therefore, I was interested that my child knows about it.
- But I was not--
- but there was ambivalent feeling.
- I wanted him to know about the Holocaust.
- I don't know if I was so sure that I
- wanted him to know all the details
- of personal experiences.
- And from the other side, I was concerned
- about burdening him with this information,
- about arousing hostility.
- And besides, we didn't know how to do it.
- We didn't know when to do it.
- There were some friends of mine who
- tried to hide their experiences from the children.
- And were other parents or friends of mine--
- parents, friends of mine, as a parent,
- they were kind of force feeding the children
- with their experiences, trying to explain their action
- in the daily action by the tragedy they went through
- to the Holocaust.
- I certainly didn't believe that is not the right way.
- I did not believe it was necessary to force
- the information on the children.
- And from the other side, I was trying
- to do it in an indirect way, by making
- my son interested in the general Jewish problem, which
- the Holocaust is part of.
- And I was waiting for him to ask the first question.
- Was it right or wrong?
- I don't know until today.
- Do you think another Holocaust is possible?
- Yes, I think another Holocaust is possible.
- Why?
- I think that the humanity became immune to genocide.
- In general, we see-- we know so much what happens now.
- And actually, even after the war,
- that war situation of genocide, maybe not in this magnitude.
- There is one consideration.
- The other consideration is that the Jews
- are for some reason special in this way,
- that nobody wants them among themselves.
- Finally, and maybe most importantly,
- the Arabs surrounding Israel express freely,
- openly so much hatred and so much determination
- that given opportunity to commit the Holocaust in the Israel,
- they would not hesitate one minute for any reason.
- It is possible in other places, yes,
- it is possible in almost any place on the world.
- I don't think there's any country
- is completely immune from these possibilities.
- As far as United States is concerned, yes,
- I think is possible here.
- In what form, I don't know.
- But in case the situation became very difficult,
- the usual tendency to looking for scapegoats will be found.
- And the Jewish population is so easy.
- And even now, there are openly antisemitic periodicals,
- and lectures, and radio stations United States.
- And there are organized group who
- deny existence of the Holocaust and published books
- and magazines containing that.
- And I believe the Holocaust is possible.
- How to prevent it?
- I don't know.
- In what ways do you feel the Holocaust has affected
- the course of your life?
- I think Holocaust changed my life completely.
- I was raised, born in Poland.
- And I was studying in Poland.
- And I was ready to became doctor in Poland.
- Granted, I has been a Zionist.
- And in my plans, I always consider
- immigration and emigration to Palestine, even before the war.
- But I cannot answer what would have been.
- But probably, after finishing our medical study
- and receiving a diploma, probably, I
- would settle someplace in Poland and practice medicine
- with a family and so on.
- Still have to remember that the Jewish population in Poland
- was 10%.
- Over three million Jews used to live in Poland.
- Any other ways that the Holocaust affected your life?
- Well, to get in there--
- show me in very--
- in vivid form what the people are able to do to other people
- and affect my way of thinking as far as religion
- is concerned, and inter-human relations
- concern, even the international relations concern.
- Now, we are finding out that the world knew about the Holocaust
- and still didn't do almost nothing to stop it
- or to at least try to save this part of the Jewish population
- of Europe.
- And what does that mean to you?
- What are your feelings about that?
- I confirm my attitude that the--
- as far as the Jews are concerned,
- because of the attitude of majority
- of the world population toward the Jews, anything happening,
- especially anything happening far away to the Jews
- is not a major importance.
- And I would even risk a statement that is sometimes
- approved by people who maybe by they
- themselves would not commit this act,
- but who would not protest when the acts are committed
- by somebody else far away.
- But what does that mean to you in terms
- of how you feel about the world, people in general?
- Does it give you any kind of feeling about that?
- Well, it could be, again, a very long answer.
- But, let's say, as in my personal life,
- and taught me not to plan too far in advance.
- And we discussed previously, try to live from day
- to day, which is certain philosophy, which sometimes
- is useful, sometimes is impediment to planning in life.
- From the other side, the other side,
- as far as people are concerned, I
- learned a lesson not to consider any group responsibility.
- Because we suffered as Jews-- suffered from the fact
- that one was supposed to be responsible for all
- in the community.
- And also a lesson interpersonal relationship--
- I don't think that then, 30 years now, after the Holocaust,
- it does have much influence in my personal relationship.
- Is there anything that I left out that hasn't--
- any questions?
- I don't think so.
- I think we covered this subject quite extensively.
- Of course, we can always go back.
- Because let's say, as far as the experiences,
- during this time is concerned, we
- can always dwell longer on certain episodes
- and certain situations, and elaborate on it,
- and to give you better insight of what was going on.
- Maybe as a general statement, I would
- say that the human being, in spite of their enormous ability
- to adapt to the changed circumstances,
- if they're exposed to enormous stresses--
- hunger, cold, crowding, and so on-- gradually
- are reducing to creatures which one instinct of survival.
- Everything else became all temporary shelved
- or not existent.
- But from the other side, the fact
- that after liberation from concentration camp,
- the people who survived were able to build
- their own lives again in spite of all these
- stresses they had, and sometimes,
- deep psychological wounds, which were
- left in them from the Holocaust is a proof
- how human being is able to rebound from this
- and go on living.
- How do you feel about answering these questions?
- I'm glad to answer this question.
- I think that this--
- if you are interested in it, I have no reluctance to answer.
- I couldn't say that it's not a painful experience.
- It is a painful experience.
- It is opening certain memories which are painful
- and which are not readily to and shouldn't be open.
- But I think that's something which needs to be done.
- And therefore, I do it without any hesitation.
- Thank you.
Overview
- Interviewee
- Albert Tilles
- Date
-
interview:
1981 June 04
Physical Details
- Language
- English
- Extent
-
3 sound cassettes (60 min.).
Rights & Restrictions
- Conditions on Access
- There are no known restrictions on access to this material.
- Conditions on Use
- No restrictions on use
Keywords & Subjects
- Topical Term
- Holocaust, Jewish (1939-1945)--Personal narratives. Holocaust survivors--United States.
- Personal Name
- Tilles, Albert.
Administrative Notes
- Holder of Originals
-
One Generation After
- Legal Status
- Permanent Collection
- Provenance
- The interview with Albert Tilles was conducted on June 4, 1981 by One Generation After, a Boston-based group of children of Holocaust survivors, for the One Generation After oral history project. The tapes of the interview were received by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum on January 7, 1990.
- Special Collection
-
The Jeff and Toby Herr Oral History Archive
- Record last modified:
- 2023-11-16 08:10:05
- This page:
- https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn510164
Additional Resources
Transcripts (3)
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- This record is digitized but cannot be downloaded online.
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