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Oral history interview with Solomon Cukier

Oral History | Digitized | Accession Number: 1989.228.10 | RG Number: RG-50.060.0010

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    Oral history interview with Solomon Cukier
    Transcript
    And we are finding ourselves in Temple Beth-El
    in Phoenix, Arizona.
    The time is approximately 10:15 in the morning.
    And I'm looking forward for interviewing me.
    And would you like to tell us where you were born and--
    My name is Solomon--
    the first name is Solomon.
    The last name is Cukier.
    I am born and raised-- born in Warsaw, Poland,
    and raised in Warsaw, Poland.
    I left Warsaw in 1939 and--
    Keep talking.
    Saw a cockroach.
    Oh, don't look.
    [LAUGHS]
    The name of my parents, my father's name was Moses Aaron.
    And my mother's name was Hannah.
    Do you recall her maiden name?
    Do you remember her maiden name?
    My mother's maiden name was Greenberg.
    Greenberg.
    What type of work was your father in?
    My father was a businessman.
    Grocery or what kind of business?
    He was in the metal business.
    Did you have any sisters and brothers?
    A little louder.
    Did you have any sisters and brothers?
    I still got three brothers alive.
    I've been all the time four brothers of us,
    and we are still all brothers alive.
    No sisters?
    No sisters.
    Can you give me their names, your brother's names?
    My next brother is Lucien, his first name.
    My second brother, Joshua, and Sam.
    Your grandparents' name?
    Pardon.
    Your grandparents?
    My grandparents from my father's side was Sam Cukier.
    And by my mother's side was a Jillman Greenberg.
    And, of course, they were all Jewish?
    Of course, they are Jewish.
    They have been Jewish.
    Did you grow up in Warsaw?
    I have been born in Warsaw and grown up in Warsaw
    and got out from Warsaw at the war.
    Should I now tell you the story?
    Or--
    Could you tell me a little bit about your childhood
    when you were growing up?
    My childhood?
    I've been growing up, you see, how to tell you,
    conservative Jewish parents.
    And I was in my childhood, very young,
    involved in organizations, like Zionist organizations.
    When I reached 19 years old after finishing high school,
    I went to an agricultural school.
    I finished the school.
    And I also being the school, I have
    been involved in the organization like Hashomer
    Hatzair.
    From Hashomer Hatzair I went to a HeHalutz.
    From HeHalutz organization, then in the 20s.
    I left right away to Israel.
    In Israel, I have been about 3 and 1/2 years.
    The reason I left because I have been working
    with trying out that land.
    And I have been seeing--
    touched very heavy by malaria.
    And I had to leave that land Israel
    because it was no way for me, you see,
    to get back to my health.
    And then I decided not to go back.
    And you returned back to Warsaw?
    To Poland.
    So you finished high school.
    This is public, Polish public school?
    Yes, sure.
    Yes.
    Not Polish public school.
    This is a gymnasium.
    In Poland was--
    Gymnasium.
    Gymnasium.
    But it was in public school, not private school?
    That gymnasium?
    Yes.
    Gymnasium was private.
    Private.
    Yeah.
    Private school.
    Were you living in Warsaw up until the German invasion?
    No, that's what I'm trying to tell you the story.
    So when the war broke out, I was, you see,
    traveling for business.
    And we had to see also a farm, a big farm in Poland.
    So when the war broke out, so I was already,
    you see, unable back to go to Warsaw.
    It kept me, you see, right in some city--
    I don't remember the name of the city.
    But then, you see, I decided that no way back to Warsaw.
    So I went to my farm, to our farm.
    The farm was around, you see, in the vicinity
    from between Kielce and Sandomierz.
    There have been staying in the farm till December.
    Till December, that means from September till December.
    In December, the end of December,
    I went back to Warsaw home to see
    if my parents what happened to my parents and to my family.
    And I finally see my home was--
    my parents' home was bombed and from the whole apartment.
    So my parents have been living in the kitchen.
    The rest of the whole apartment was done by a bomb.
    And I have been with my parents in ghetto till 9, '40, '41.
    In '42, in the beginning of '42, I
    left my parents to go to cash some money in Sandomierz.
    We have been already about out of funds,
    you see, to make a living.
    So I went to see to a big manufacturer
    where we have been delivering metal
    to try to get some money from them because we had on account
    with them some money.
    So in the meantime, I went to see also
    to this farm we were for a while.
    And I have been staying there, you see,
    for about two or three weeks.
    And I've been planning to go back to my parents.
    In the meantime, they exported my parents to Treblinka.
    So there wasn't any way for me to just
    to stay still on the farm and to see what will happen.
    But one day, I got out to-- the farm
    was very close to a small city.
    The name of the city was Raków.
    And at the time when I went to see to the city early
    in the morning, so there got me there
    was a surrounding from the city, from that little city, Raków.
    And they got me with some other people.
    And they got us in the morning.
    In the morning, they closed us up all in--
    I'm getting excited when I'm talking about it.
    The other scene in the synagogue,
    they kept us in the synagogue about 18 hours.
    And late in the evening, they loaded us in the trucks
    and got us to Czestochowa-- no, to Skarzysko.
    In Skarzysko was a big manufacturing place
    for weapons.
    So this was already like a concentration,
    like a camp, a concentration camp, that Skarzysko.
    There was three sections, A, B, and C. A
    was for manufacturing things that the army needs.
    B was for weapons.
    And 3 was for gas, poison gas.
    I have been--
    I have been--
    I have been in all the time when I have been in Skarzysko,
    I was working in that with in that part where the electric--
    in the part where the electricity,
    the main electricity that was giving power
    to that whole complex.
    So this was my--
    this was the part where I have been working.
    Medically, I have been not working very hard
    because I have been with me about 40 people, between 40
    and 15 people--
    50 people, that the work that the people have been doing
    there have been see delivering to that main oven,
    was a big oven that was having coal to run the electricity.
    This was at the time.
    40 years ago, it was something else than is today.
    But anyway, I have been in Skarzysko for about a year.
    Then they got me from Skarzysko to Czestochowa.
    They transferred a lot of us from Skarzysko to Czestochowa.
    And in Czestochowa was the same thing.
    It was also weapons and things like this,
    working for the German army.
    And the last year before--
    no, it wasn't a year.
    It was about six months.
    Who remembers?
    About four months.
    They got us to Buchenwald.
    And then in Buchenwald, I was like everybody.
    What was-- the Russian army came in.
    And this was then.
    Were you married, Mr. Cukier, at the time?
    I have been married.
    I have been married in '41.
    And my wife was separate.
    She was living in Warsaw.
    She was living in Warsaw with a [INAUDIBLE]..
    Oh.
    Did she survive?
    She survived.
    She survived in Warsaw.
    She wasn't taken to a concentration camp?
    She wasn't in camp.
    You were you aware of the Nazi takeover
    already when you returned to your farm in Poland?
    Oh, when I have been aware?
    Yes.
    You mean the takeover, what, the Nazis?
    Yes, that they're spreading.
    In other words, that the war is taking place and that--
    That the war will take place?
    Yes.
    Sure.
    Yes.
    We have been aware.
    We have been aware from the press.
    We have been aware, you see, because a lot
    of big business in Poland have been already feeling--
    there was a boycott from German not
    to do business with the Jewish people in the '30s right
    after Hitler came.
    So especially our business, the metal business,
    have been heavily involved and hurt
    because of that boycott that started from Germany not
    to do business with Jewish businessmen,
    metal business in Poland.
    So we knew that something is going on.
    And something is from the press, from radio, press, and things.
    Sure, it was hard to see, to expect that something like that
    will happen.
    But we, little by little, little by little, we saw that black--
    Monster.
    That black day that will someday appear, still not in the way
    it happened.
    Something was in the air.
    Not just some things, there was real already poisoned
    with antisemitism and that whole thing.
    So it wasn't hard to see, to imagine that things are getting
    worse and worse and worse from year to year, from day to day,
    from month to month.
    Did the Jewish community do anything in Warsaw
    to warn the people?
    Especially the Jewish community, you see,
    in Warsaw, in the beginning, we can
    say better off than other places because it
    was a lot of Jewish population.
    And heads of the Jewish Judenrat have
    been trying to do everything to keep this up--
    in the beginning I mean--
    in the beginning to keep it up in the way
    that the population would not suffer so much thanks
    to the Jewish community and thanks special to Czerniaków.
    Czerniaków was our head, you see, when there was a Judenrat.
    And if you know and don't know, he suicide himself.
    In the last days when he saw that the situation getting
    from day to day tragic and he was
    unable to do the things to like he was trying
    to see to help the Jewish population and get them,
    so he decided to finish up and--
    Were you at all in the Warsaw ghetto?
    Pardon.
    Were you in the Warsaw ghetto?
    I was in the Warsaw ghetto from '39 to '42.
    Not from '39.
    From when I came home, it was--
    I came home '39.
    But the ghetto, it wasn't closed up ghetto in '39.
    The ghetto was closed up I think right in '40,
    in the beginning of '40.
    Little by little, you see, street
    by street, and area by area.
    So after the ghetto, you were taken to Skarzysko.
    What was the first--
    Pardon.
    From the ghetto were transported to--
    To Skarzysko?
    To Skarzysko.
    No, to Skarzysko I mentioned already
    that I left Warsaw for business.
    If you remember, I left Warsaw for business.
    And when the war broke out, so I have
    been on my way doing business.
    And it came to my knowledge in some place
    that the war broke out.
    That means from the press, from radio.
    So you were by yourself.
    None of your brothers were with you because you were taken--
    you left on business by yourself.
    So you were not with any family?
    No.
    myself, sure, myself.
    OK.
    Can you describe some of the conditions
    that were in the ghetto when you were there?
    You mean the conditions in the Warsaw ghetto?
    Yes.
    So that's what I told you.
    In the beginning it was bad.
    Compared to the other ghettos, it was--
    Czerniaków was doing everything to keep up that ghetto in a way
    that the people will not suffer very much.
    But day by day, and the month by month, and year by year,
    it was getting worse and worse and worse.
    People have been dying out from hunger.
    Food was very short.
    Sickness, like typhus and all other kinds of sicknesses,
    people have been dying.
    People have been dying.
    And the streets, you have been walking in the streets
    and finding on the sidewalks dead people.
    People have been buried not just in single graves,
    but it was hard already to open single graves.
    So they have been putting already about 10 in a grave.
    From the Warsaw ghetto, were you taken
    to Czestochowa, the next stop?
    From?
    From the ghetto?
    From the ghetto, I?
    I from the ghetto, directly?
    No, from the ghetto, I got out from the ghetto in '42.
    I got out from the ghetto in '42.
    And were you taken to the concentration camps
    from the ghetto?
    No, from the ghetto.
    I got out from the ghetto and I went to that farm.
    That farm was in the area between Skarzysko--
    between Kielce and Sandomierz.
    So then this happened after the ghetto and you went--
    To Skarzysko, they got me, you see,
    from a small little town, connected with that farm.
    And conditions were not, from what you described,
    were not so bad in Skarzysko, you
    were working as an electrician there.
    For me, for the working people?
    Yeah.
    You mean for the Jewish--
    For the inmates.
    You mean for the in--
    Yes.
    In the beginning, it was not too bad.
    But then, you see, it's start already segregation with
    to get out.
    From time to time, the head from the SS from Radom
    used to come over and segregate older people, sick people.
    After you see a half of a year, sick people, older people,
    they got out and send them see to Treblinka.
    For extermination?
    That's right.
    In Czestochowa were conditions--
    Conditions in the beginning was about--
    day by day and month by month, it
    was getting worse and worse and worse.
    Did you have Appells every morning counting people?
    Sure, counting people every morning.
    Can you describe, tell me how that was, how the counting was?
    The counting was easy early in the morning,
    early in the morning.
    And mostly that each--
    the A, B, and C, so in each part of that factory.
    So people have been working in each, let's say, each brigade,
    let's say a brigade.
    Each brigade had a head.
    And he was responsible for that amount of people that he had.
    Each morning he had to report that he got all the people,
    that nobody escaped.
    He had to report to them that nobody escaped.
    And he got all, let's say, the 50 people or 70 people.
    And this was the way it was going on all the time.
    People started escaping too.
    And then when people start escaping,
    so came out a bulletin.
    If people will escape--
    so for each Jew that escape, seven will be killed.
    Seven will be shot.
    And it happened from time to time.
    It happened from time to time that a Jew decided to escape.
    And there have been shooting, seven of us.
    Were the escapes successful?
    Some escaped successful.
    And some got caught.
    And then Buchenwald, what time--
    I was in Buchenwald very short.
    Short.
    Very short.
    Because right after I came, this was right after liberation.
    After liberation?
    No.
    The liberation came right--
    Oh, I see right before.
    Yeah.
    Were you transported by train from one camp to the other?
    No, by trucks.
    Trucks.
    Trucks.
    Closed trucks?
    Closed trucks?
    Closed trucks, you see, they are getting by groups,
    you know by--
    When they were selecting the people,
    did it usually happen during Appell,
    during morning counting when they picked out
    the old people and the young--
    and the sick people?
    When they picked out people, segregate people,
    it was the same thing.
    One morning was A. Other day, let's
    say a month later, was B. A month later was C.
    And so it was going on all the time and cleaning up.
    In the beginning, if there start segregating.
    So they got out, let's say, 50 or 100 or something like that.
    So they brought in younger people.
    What were the sanitary conditions?
    Did they shave you?
    Did they give you any clothing?
    Sanitation was the same thing.
    In the beginning, it was all right.
    But then it was the same thing.
    It was getting worse and worse from day
    to day, from month to month.
    Did you have working hours?
    Was it 8 hours or 10 hours?
    The working hours have been, let's say, about 12 hours
    daily.
    Did you have to march to work or was it right there in the camp?
    About what?
    The work, you worked right in the camp
    or did you have to go somewhere?
    No, it was right the factory.
    The factory was surrounded with high wire,
    with the whole thing.
    If you was trying to get out, you was hit by electricity.
    Did you suffer any major illness while you were in camp?
    No, medically I have been not--
    I myself, no.
    So you have no-- do you feel that you were left with any--
    A lot of people have been dying from sickness, typhus, in camp.
    Especially, later on in the Skarzysko,
    they have been dying, oh, about 10% died out or maybe more,
    typhus.
    Were there any other punishments besides the shooting the seven
    people if someone escaped?
    Were there--
    No, mostly by shooting.
    Were you aware of any kind of organized insurrection
    amongst the Jewish people?
    Did you ever encounter any kind of organization trying
    to rise against the Germans?
    Against the Germans?
    So you mean generally?
    Generally.
    A few, whatever.
    You mean in camp?
    Yes.
    In camp, it was talking about it.
    But really, we have been talking about it
    from time to time to time, but it
    was hard to go on and do something and decide
    to make a escape.
    It happen in some other camps.
    But not in ours.
    As far as crematoriums, were there any in the camps
    where you were?
    About?
    Crematorium.
    The crematorium, no, not in our camps.
    No.
    No.
    As you stated, they took people to Treblinka from--
    Yeah, so they took people directly to Treblinka.
    Mostly, we have been talking mostly about Treblinka.
    Maybe they took them to Auschwitz maybe.
    When were you liberated?
    I think it was '40--
    I think it was '45.
    '45.
    Can you remember the time of the year?
    Was it winter or summer?
    It was I think in--
    what the month--
    I don't-- I think it was before winter.
    I think it was--
    yeah, it wasn't any snow at the time.
    It was before winter.
    Were they-- did the Germans march you out of the camp
    trying to escape from the Russians?
    When?
    In--
    Before they invaded.
    There have been trying.
    They have been trying.
    But I think this really-- it was like--
    it was like a surprise the whole thing.
    Because when we got out from Czestochowa to Buchenwald,
    it was already--
    it wasn't like-- it was already--
    the air was that something is going on,
    like the end is coming.
    Was it maybe that they took you from Czestochowa to Buchenwald
    because of that reason?
    It is a good possibility.
    Uh, huh.
    Uh, huh.
    So you were liberated in Buchenwald then.
    Yes.
    In Buchenwald.
    How were they treating you just before liberation
    came, the Germans?
    Really, it is hard to give you a picture because they
    have been in disarray in itself, the Germans.
    They knew that something--
    I have been there very short because people
    that have been in Buchenwald--
    Buchenwald was a long time.
    You know, Buchenwald was a camp, it was in existence years.
    But for me, it was--
    people that have been long in Buchenwald
    would give you a better picture about it.
    And when the liberators came, how did they treat you?
    Pardon.
    How did the liberators--
    Like it was a celebration.
    They were-- which ones?
    The Russians liberated you.
    Yeah.
    Were you in good health to enjoy and to realize
    what was going on?
    Sure.
    I tell you, for us people that have been in concentration
    camps in Poland, it was a big difference
    than the camps in Auschwitz or Buchenwald
    or let's say all the other camps in Germany.
    In Poland, the camps in Poland, like Czestochowa and Skarzysko,
    there wasn't any crematoriums at that place.
    It was a different camps.
    OK, people, let's say, for instance,
    in Skarzysko, people working in C,
    unlucky if they have been in section C.
    They have been dying because there
    have been gases, poison gas.
    And then the people that have been in C,
    they had a very bad time.
    People that have been in B, they have been not so bad like in C.
    But still worse than in A. The three sections,
    each section was different.
    I mean, the inside, that living in E--
    being in A, I mean, was different than being in B.
    And being in C was different than being in B.
    How many people were in a section, like A or B or C?
    Let's say, for me, it is hard to give you exactly--
    Approximately.
    --the number.
    In the hundreds.
    In the hundreds.
    You ate your meals right in the barracks or at work?
    What you mean eat?
    What did you have for breakfast, for instance?
    In the breakfast was coffee and bread.
    And--
    And for lunch soup.
    And then again the same thing, bread and coffee,
    or tea or something like that.
    So the electrical generation was--
    What I remember just one thing that soup
    was cooked with the meat and bones
    from horses, killed horses.
    That I remember because just by accident,
    I happen to see some day, a group of us
    had been cleaning around the kitchen there.
    And we got behind there.
    And there was piled up horses, dead horses.
    So we knew what we are eating.
    Did you go back to your home in Warsaw after liberation?
    After the liberation?
    Yes.
    What did I after the liberation--
    after liberation, yeah, after liberation
    I have been looking for my wife, going back to Poland.
    And I find her in Warsaw.
    I found her in Warsaw.
    Everything was with her not too bad because the same thing,
    you know, her friends from the same apartment house where
    she was raised and living, till the tragedy start,
    they have been helping her out.
    They made documents, and she was with them and working.
    She was in a good shape.
    Did you try finding any other members of your family?
    I have been trying to see also to find what is going on
    with my three brothers.
    So the three brothers have been like this.
    One who was hidden by a girlfriend, by his girlfriend.
    The second one, that Lucien, was hidden you see by her.
    And I find him there in Warsaw.
    And he decided to marry her because she was hiding him
    for so many years and like offering her life for him.
    So he married her.
    The second one wasn't--
    I was unable to find that second one.
    And he didn't know about second one, the third one.
    He didn't know-- till the end till when
    it cleared up, looking for somebody, finding them self.
    So we find the third one was in Israel.
    And there was-- oh, yeah, Sam was in Russia.
    And we find him in Austria, in a camp in Austria.
    In a DP camp.
    In a DP camp, yeah.
    Which in Austria?
    Which camp in Austria.
    Which camp in Austria?
    Which DP camp?
    It was in Salzburg.
    In Salzburg.
    Are your brothers in the United States now?
    Or--
    Two brothers-- two brothers are in the United States.
    And one is living in Israel.
    Did you have any family, any children,
    before the war, Mr. Cukier?
    Before the war?
    No.
    No.
    I've been married.
    My first child was born in Germany in '46.
    In '46?
    On your way to the United States?
    In '46, in Germany.
    When did you come to the United States?
    The United States, in '49.
    '49.
    In June '49.
    Did you have to be in any DP camp in Germany?
    Did you have--
    Pardon.
    Were you in a DP camp in Germany?
    Sure.
    We came from DP camp in Germany from Lampertheim.
    How long were you in Germany?
    In camp?
    From '46-- I went to see from my wife in '45.
    When I came to Poland, we went together to Germany.
    And we got into Zeilsheim, which was a camp, Zeilsheim.
    From Zeilsheim to Lampertheim.
    In Lampertheim, we have been staying in that camp till--
    in the camp till we went to the United States.
    Tell us a little bit about your stay in the DP camps
    before you came to the United States.
    You mean the DP camp?
    Yes.
    The DP camp was in a small city.
    At least in the beginning, we have been very short,
    very short in Zeilsheim.
    Zeilsheim was a big DP camp around Frankfurt.
    The reason we left Zeilsheim, it was already overcrowded.
    So we opened a camp, a DP camp in Lampertheim.
    It was close to Mannheim.
    And-- what I'm talking about.
    Mannheim-- Heidelberg, it was close to Heidelberg
    and Mannheim, that Lampertheim.
    So we opened there a camp, a DP camp,
    a smaller size camp because Zeilsheim
    was a big camp and overcrowded.
    And we have been open that camp--
    what was it? '45.
    I think in the beginning of '46.
    And we have been staying in that camp from '46 to '49.
    In that camp, was living, I think, about several hundred
    of us, maybe closer to--
    I don't think it was 1,000.
    At Lampertheim, Lampertheim was a small city,
    a small German city.
    We have been living in the homes where
    the Germans had to get out and leave the homes for us.
    And so they're there in the DP camp.
    So it was nice, not comfortable, but it was not
    too bad to stay from '46 to '49.
    And it took that long for you to be
    able to come to the United States?
    It took us so long to come to the United States.
    Sure.
    And when you arrived to America, you--
    When we arrived to America, we arrived in Boston.
    And at the time, I had already a child with me,
    my daughter, a daughter.
    I lost a child, by the way because she got sick,
    and she died in 1957.
    She was already 11 years old.
    Anyway, when we left Germany with one child, our daughter.
    David was born David was born in the United States, yes.
    She was born in Germany.
    When you lost her, were already in the United States?
    Pardon.
    When you lost her, you were in the United States?
    I lost her, sure, in the United States.
    There was no medical help for her?
    No, this was-- it was her central nervous system.
    Maybe now they can do something about it.
    But at that time, in 1957, it was impossible to help her.
    And you settled down in Boston.
    How did you make your living?
    How did you--
    I settled down in Boston for a very short time.
    And then from Boston, we decided to--
    where were I from Boston?
    Yeah, from Boston, when we arrived in Boston, then
    we went to see to Saint Paul, Minnesota.
    Saint Paul, Minnesota, right from Boston, my child got--
    we have been Boston a few weeks because my daughter
    was touched with the flu.
    So we had to stay in Boston and waiting till she
    will get out from the flu.
    And then from Boston, we went to Saint Paul, Minnesota.
    And Saint Paul, Minnesota, we settled
    in Saint Paul, Minnesota.
    The Jewish Family Service was trying
    to help us a little, to look around
    and to find a place where to live.
    And right after a short time I started working as--
    I have been going to school to get a little English.
    And we have been very short--
    I think I went to school for about six,
    not even six, four, six months, or something like that.
    And after six months, I started working as a shipping clerk
    with a manufacturing company, for a garment manufacturing
    company.
    And you were--
    I settled down in Saint Paul.
    And I have been in Saint Paul from '49 till '54.
    In '54, David--
    David was born in 1950.
    The reason David was born in 1950,
    In '51, he was heavy as a young child, a year old.
    So he was heavy touch with allergy.
    And the doctor told us nothing that can help him very much.
    The only one help would be to change the climate.
    So we decided to go to California with him.
    So we got our daughter and David,
    and we decided to go to California.
    I went to California.
    In California, I decided--
    I have been in California from '54--
    So I settled down in '54.
    And in '54, I bought a home and a little ranch.
    In '54, I opened a little ranch.
    I start I start with--
    the ranch was an egg ranch.
    I start with 500 chickens.
    I finished agriculture school in Poland.
    I suppose the closest thing to go on and do something.
    And I finished up with a bigger ranch.
    How many chickens?
    Already about 20,000 at the time.
    When did you come to Phoenix?
    In '54, you see, I closed up the ranch.
    I had the ranch from '54 to '66.
    In '66, I closed the ranch.
    I sold-- wait, I sold the ranch.
    Wait, wait, wait, wait.
    In '66, I closed the ranch.
    Yeah, in '66, I closed the range.
    And I have been living at the ranch till I came to Phoenix.
    What year?
    I came to Phoenix--
    I had to see a nice home at the ranch.
    And I came to Phoenix because of David.
    Maybe I would stay in California.
    But David came--
    David finished school in 1970.
    It means my daughter died in '57.
    So we have since '57, so David was our only one child.
    David finished high school in that place
    where I had a ranch in California.
    He finished his school in 19--
    high school in 1968.
    And David finished high school.
    And then he decided to go--
    yeah, two years he was in California with pre-pharmacy.
    And from pre-pharmacy, he went to U of A, here in Tucson.
    He finished the pharmacy, the pharmacy school in Tucson.
    So he was all the time in Arizona.
    From Arizona, he went back to California,
    to Stockton, University of Pacific,
    to get his doctor degree in pharmacy.
    And we have been still living in California at the ranch.
    In '66, I closed the ranch.
    But I have been living in the ranch,
    you see, just living there in California.
    And I retired at the time.
    And then, David, we decided, we got one child,
    and it's time for us to get together.
    So in 1981, we came over to Phoenix.
    We are living in Phoenix from '81 till now.
    You made a good choice.
    Do you ever feel that maybe the Allies, England and America,
    could have done more to help the Jews in Europe?
    There is no question about it.
    They ignored us.
    There is no question about it they ignored us.
    They ignored real-- they ignored us--
    even when the war was on they ignored us.
    They knew what is going on.
    That wasn't very hard to see to go on
    and bombard all the camps even.
    If they would kill us, a part of us.
    But it was time, you see, to do a lot about it.
    Not talking about you see things like a ship
    coming to sea to New York in and tell them go back.
    Do you ever have any bad dreams or think a lot about--
    Nightmares?
    Very often.
    Very often.
    Very often.
    Do you think this tragedy could happen again, the Holocaust?
    It is up-- how myself--
    you are thinking a difference that I am thinking.
    And I am thinking maybe difference
    that you are thinking.
    So each of us, got his self can--
    got a different belief in the future.
    And about to say it will happen, you see,
    in the way it is now, in the way you see we
    Jewish people are finding ourselves
    in the world, and the Israel and seeing
    like everything is really organizing their selves
    a little against us.
    Politically, I mean, you see, politically.
    More politically you see people to people.
    Politically, so the situation you see as of today.
    So we can say that things can happen
    not in the way it happened.
    But I am seeing a little dark for the future.
    But in the way Hitler did it, I think it will not happen.
    Impossible.
    The way he did it is real--
    it is hard to imagine.
    It is hard to imagine that.
    So I don't know why it is.
    At the end of the world, it's got to be the end of the world.
    It is not too clear to me, would you mind clarifying,
    when you got out of the ghetto how
    you managed to get to the farm.
    Did you escape from the ghetto?
    Yeah.
    You did.
    Sure.
    Sure.
    I got out at the time, I had the occasion to get out--
    I have been in touch with the mostly with manufacturers.
    They have been manufacturing metal.
    The metal business was especially by the Germans.
    So the metal business was--
    in Poland, when they came in and occupied Poland,
    so the metal business had special privileges
    because of metal.
    They needed metal.
    They needed metal.
    So they got for them special--
    Privileges?
    Yeah.
    Especially to give them special things
    that what somebody else can do, they
    may do because they needed metal.
    So I go see a lot of manufacturers.
    And the manufacturers had trucks going from factory--
    let's say he had a factory in [NON-ENGLISH] and he had
    a factory in some other places.
    So I had the opportunity to get in that truck going
    from one place to other place.
    They put me in their truck, one of the manufacturers.
    I told him that I like to go out from ghetto.
    And they put me in a truck, going to,
    let's say, from Warsaw to Sandomierz.
    And so I got out to see from ghetto.
    And then when they found you, they found you on the farm
    when they were collecting the Jews?
    Or how did they manage to get you into the camp?
    I told you that our farm was very close to a small city
    where there was a Jewish community.
    And they gathered you--
    You can say that the farm was right on the border
    of that small city.
    And someday, you see, I got from the farm
    just to walk from the farm to the city small city, Raków.
    And a few hours later, they surrounded the city
    and got all young people.
    They got out from the homes.
    I have been right walking in the city.
    And they got us out and then collect us little by little
    into the synagogue.
    And from the synagogue, they have
    been trucks coming in in the evening
    and loading our trucks to Skarzysko.
    We came to Skarzysko right in the middle of the night,
    not to know where we are.
    So when you were mostly with young people
    then that were collected.
    That's right.
    What about the families in this town?
    They were taken earlier or later?
    No, the families have been at the time
    where they get us got us.
    So the families have been staying there.
    Still staying--
    They just got-- they surrounded just young people.
    For work?
    For work, sure.
    And then you have liquidate the city when time--
    when the train came.
    So they got them out all to the gas chambers.
    Anyway, Mr. Cukier, it's been a pleasure to interview you.
    And thank you very much for your time.
    And--
    Thank you for your time.
    You are the one that you are doing that work.
    Well--
    So I should thank you for the work.
    We want to preserve this for your son and for all of us
    so that we can--
    Yeah.
    Each of us got a story.
    Yes.
    Thank you very much.
    Yeah.
    Thank you.

    Overview

    Interview Summary
    Solomon Cukier, born in Warsaw, Poland, discusses his parents and siblings; his childhood experiences; the beginning of the war; being forced to live in the Warsaw ghetto; getting married in 1941 (his wife lived in the non-Jewish part of Warsaw); the deportation of his parents to Treblinka; being sent to work in Sedziszow, Poland; his experiences in work camps; being sent to Buchenwald concentration camp; liberation; living in displaced persons camps in Germany from 1946 to 1949; his children; immigrating to the United States; and his life in the US.
    Interviewee
    Solomon Cukier
    Date
    interview:  1987 November 03

    Physical Details

    Language
    English
    Extent
    1 videocassette (VHS) : sound, color ; 1/2 in..

    Rights & Restrictions

    Conditions on Access
    There are no known restrictions on access to this material.
    Conditions on Use
    No restrictions on use

    Keywords & Subjects

    Personal Name
    Cukier, Solomon.

    Administrative Notes

    Legal Status
    Permanent Collection
    Provenance
    The interview with Solomon Cukier was conducted on November 3, 1987 by the Phoenix Holocaust Survivors' Association in affiliation with the Cline Library of Northern Arizona University as part of a project to document the testimonies of Holocaust survivors in the Phoenix, AZ area. The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum received a copy of the interview in 1989.
    Record last modified:
    2023-11-16 08:09:36
    This page:
    https:​/​/collections.ushmm.org​/search​/catalog​/irn512494

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