- Good morning, Larry.
- Good morning.
- We're happy that you could come this morning.
- I'm glad to be here.
- I would like you to start telling us
- when and where you were born, your parents, how many sisters
- and brothers you had in your family.
- I was born in 1925, April 2 in a little village, Dombrova.
- It's 6 kilometers from Krasnik City.
- [COUGHS] Excuse me.
- [COUGHS]
- And as far I can remember, the first thing I
- can tell you, 1929 I remember I was four years old.
- I never forget.
- We a cold winter, 40 below.
- There was frost, the windows.
- We froze-- almost froze to death.
- And the little stove was warming up the pipes.
- My mother put us next to the stove.
- I was the second in the family at that time, an older brother.
- And an uncle coming to visit us in that miserable day,
- cold day, and he just as a joke, he took a piece of coal
- and burned my foot and my knee.
- I don't know what kind of joke it was.
- I was a kid, a baby.
- And I got a scar on my knee, on the right knee.
- It never goes away.
- You still have it.
- I still got the scar, yes.
- That's the first thing I can remember.
- Well, when I started getting older,
- I start going to school in Poland.
- My father was dealing, like he bought a cow or a calf.
- He had a little store, a little tiny one.
- He used to sell kerosene, sugar, salt, different things.
- And that's the way we made a living.
- And I was the second in the family.
- Then I had another sister after me.
- Her name?
- First my brother was--
- in Jewish would be Joe, and Yossel in Jewish.
- So in English it would be Joe.
- And then my name was--
- now I'm Larry.
- Leibish used to be in Jewish.
- I was the second in the family.
- Then I had a sister, in Jewish was Baucha, her name.
- So in English, [INAUDIBLE].
- Then I had a brother, that the fourth one.
- He was after my sister.
- In 1936 my mother had another.
- I was already 10 years old, almost 11.
- She had a little sister.
- She was not quite six years.
- She was born that time.
- Your family name was Weidenbaum.
- Weidenhof.
- First name was-- my name was really actually Weidenbaum.
- We was writing ourself Pietenel.
- Because in Poland, my father wrote himself
- on his mother's name because my grandfather divorced
- my grandmother, mind you.
- And when he was two years old, my father--
- he was raised by two aunts in Krasnik,
- in the city Krasnik, only 6 kilometers,
- like 3 and 1/2 miles you would say, from me,
- from that village.
- OK, so my father was left a little baby, two years old.
- And then my two aunts raised him and his mother.
- And his mother got sick after a while.
- And I guess she-- so my two aunts raised my father
- and he was a child.
- And my father, my grandfather, my father's father,
- remarried second time he moved to the United States.
- He was in America, lived in Jamaica, New York.
- He almost forgot about us.
- That's it.
- So my father was Michal, and my mother was Rivka, her name.
- You can ask my father-in-law.
- I can remember I started going to school in public school.
- I got older.
- I was gone.
- And then I used to go to cheder.
- They used to send us to cheder, to Jewish to learn.
- You must.
- So when I was six years, I started going to cheder.
- And I was going to public school.
- So I had to go both ways.
- So we had to go to Krasnik every day or every other day.
- We used to walk as kids, mind you, 12 kilometers back
- and forth every day to go to cheder afternoon.
- In the morning we used to go to public school,
- and then afternoon we go to cheder to Krasnik.
- In public school, did you associate
- with non-Jewish children?
- We had children, Polish children.
- We were the only family, seven people living in that village.
- And there was about 2,000 Polish people
- in that village, farmers.
- I knew them.
- I grew up with them.
- I knew them since kids and babies,
- like in the United States.
- Yeah.
- Did you have good relationship with--
- I tell you, they were very antisemitic, very antisemitic.
- What happened, I was going to school,
- and I was very good with them.
- I used to share.
- Me, like Jewish kid, we always had a nickel or something.
- I used to buy something, chocolate,
- I used to share with them, being because that's
- the way we feel, to share, even how poor we were.
- We wasn't rich.
- We were very poor.
- We used to rent a house.
- We didn't own a house, nothing.
- So I had a bad experience while I graduate from school in 1939.
- And that was before that, maybe about two years sooner.
- That would be '38.
- I was about 13 years old, maybe 12 years old.
- I can't remember exactly.
- And they used to pick on me, the Polish kids at recess.
- And all the time they used to call me [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]..
- That means you goddamn Jew or something.
- Excuse me.
- I shouldn't even say that word.
- That was bad.
- They used to call me dirty Jew, dirty Jew
- and pick on me all the time and pick and pick.
- And I couldn't take it.
- They used to throw rocks after us and everything else.
- We had a bad time.
- So one day we go on a recess.
- And I went to the teacher, and I told the teacher,
- the Polish teacher.
- And I begged her, please, I say, why don't--
- they were bullies.
- They're picking on me all the time.
- I said, why do you pick-- what did I do to you?
- I didn't do nothing to you.
- And when I got home-- so the teacher
- ignored me, the Polish teacher.
- She ignored me.
- And he was one guy, Kisiazkiewicz,
- which I never forget--
- I remember their name after so many years.
- It's almost 50 years, I would say.
- And so one day we come out on a recess.
- And one guy pulled a knife on me, wants to stab me.
- He pulled a knife, about three inches blade.
- He was going right at me, right through my stomach.
- And I couldn't take it.
- I said, this is the last stroke.
- Meanwhile there was the lady-- there
- was about 40 kids in that room.
- There was a farm place.
- And I seen they had a little bat she
- had for mashing potatoes for the pigs.
- And I see that bat standing right in the corner.
- And I grabbed that bat, and I hit
- him right across to his head.
- I almost killed him.
- I opened up his head.
- He was in a pool of blood.
- I couldn't take it.
- This was my last straw.
- Because he was after me, want to stab me.
- And he fell down.
- And I took off.
- I run away.
- And then after three days, I come back to school.
- And after that-- I thought I killed him.
- He pulled through, was not--
- a little bit more he would be dead.
- He was lucky, really.
- And I was lucky.
- I didn't want to kill him.
- Just I wanted to hurt him or something
- because he was after me.
- You were defending yourself.
- Defending myself.
- I couldn't take it.
- I said, this was my last.
- So I come back.
- After that three days, I come back.
- Everybody stood away 10, 15 feet.
- They were afraid of me because I told them
- I'm going to kill them.
- Even religion say don't kill, thou shall not kill.
- Because I was so mad.
- I couldn't take it.
- It was always picking.
- They didn't leave me alone.
- And I didn't do nothing to him.
- So did you get respect after that?
- Oh, yes.
- I had fully respect after that.
- I had fully respect.
- OK, after this, welcome to 1939.
- The war broke out.
- We were five children.
- We lived in that little village.
- I used to always help my father, like he
- used to go in the farm, buy cattle or calves.
- I used to help him.
- I always volunteered with him.
- I said, you don't have to pay me nothing.
- I want to help you.
- I always did.
- In 1939, we had a horse and wagon, too.
- And we used to go in the woods and chop wood.
- And I used to walk with the horse in mud and mud
- up to your ankles, hold the horse by his--
- what would you call that?
- Stirrup or--
- The big pole-- what would you call that?
- Well, what's the difference?
- A harness-- OK.
- I hold them so the horse would go straight.
- And then I bet you for a couple of months,
- I bought wood and took it to the city and sold it.
- And I was going always with my father as a kid all the time.
- I used to go down in the country,
- buy-- get chickens and eggs from the people.
- My hands were falling off many times.
- The eggs were more heavy than the basket and myself weighed.
- I was always working, working so hard
- that I was crying all the time.
- I said, look at me.
- What did I do?
- Then pulls me down.
- OK, just I was willing to do it to help.
- Then-- you can ask me what else.
- Well, as the war was approaching in '39--
- In '39, yes, the war, we heard that Germany start,
- we had big propaganda.
- Not propaganda-- antisemitism arose in 1938 right in Poland.
- They were boycotting Jewish stores, Jewish shops
- and don't buy this and kill Jews.
- And already coming from Germany, there
- was boycotting right away.
- And I knew I was already--
- 1939 I was 14 years old.
- I just quit school exactly.
- OK, so while we lived in the village, my mother
- while the war was going on, they just
- had a lot of people used to run away from the west
- and going toward Russia.
- And my mother on a Friday and my brother, she said,
- go to the city, because we don't have no kerosene,
- we don't have no salt, we don't have nothing.
- Why don't you go and buy it and bring it back?
- And I didn't want to go, because I felt that something is wrong.
- When I got back before the Krasnik city, a mile,
- German Luftwaffe are coming.
- There was hundreds and hundreds of people walking--
- children, women running, going all back east toward Russia.
- And the Luftwaffe plane come down and start shooting.
- And a lot of people got killed.
- And I jumped between the potato--
- the greens, and my brother.
- And the bullets were flying over our heads.
- So lucky I didn't get killed.
- Then they took off the plane.
- A lot of people were dead, a lot of them.
- I seen a lot of people were-- they were real people.
- There was no army, nothing.
- While coming to the city, I went down
- to buy that few things what I was supposed to buy
- and I come back.
- Meanwhile there was a raid in the city.
- One plane, a German Luftwaffe plane
- come in and start bombing.
- One horse, two horses went through the Polish army.
- There was no army.
- Nobody had disappeared.
- There was nothing, nothing to fight.
- The Poles didn't have nothing to fight with.
- OK, while I'm coming, there was the raid.
- They were shooting and bombing and bombing.
- I bet you have half the city, quarter of the city
- was bombed out that time.
- A lot of people got killed.
- Mostly Jewish people got killed because it
- was right in the middle like-- we call them a marketplace.
- And all in that city, Jews lived all together,
- one on top of the other, only Jews.
- And Polish people lived farther out.
- They used to live in the village, in the country,
- or far away in the city.
- Almost was everything occupied by the Jewish population.
- So mostly the Jewish people got killed.
- There was nobody else killed.
- Polish people didn't get killed.
- The Jews got killed.
- And a lot of people I knew, girls and boys, young people,
- old people got killed.
- OK, then the invasion coming.
- The Germans come in 1939.
- While we lived in the village, I see
- the Polish people, the farmers, brought milk to them and apples
- and welcomed them, you see, to show the army
- they're welcome to Poland.
- And this progressed coming to 1940, '39, right away '40
- come along.
- The Germans right away set up Judenrat, they used to call it.
- Like a gemeinde, and they used to have a Jewish man who
- was the top man.
- And they started making Jewish police.
- In other words, organized [CROSS TALK]..
- Organized so the Jews could control the Jews, you see.
- And when the Germans need any Jews for work,
- so they just come in here and say, look,
- you've got to give us 500 people, 1,000, whatever.
- We need them, and that's it.
- So they used to--
- They would demand it from--
- From the city, and they come in to every house, look,
- you go, you go, you go, and this, and they took it,
- you see.
- So that's the way they start organizing the labor force,
- you see.
- So while we was at that time 1940,
- it was a cold winter in Poland at that time.
- I never forget.
- They chased everybody out from the villages
- and from the city--
- Jews, Poles.
- Cleaned the road because the main road used to go to Russia.
- That road was from Krasnik.
- That main road used to go to Lublin
- and used to go way up to Russia, to the border.
- There was the main road, because all the army
- was coming through that road.
- It was like a main road, like--
- So this was the German army.
- German army, yes, the German.
- So a lot of people froze their knees,
- a lot of legs, and everything, a lot of--
- they used to stand over you with whips.
- The Jews were building the roads?
- No, the roads were there.
- The roads--
- Just cleaning them.
- Just to clean the snow.
- They didn't use-- like in America you
- got snow plows or something, so they used slave work, shovels.
- So everybody took a shovel, and they had to shovel the snow.
- And it was six, seven feet snow high,
- cleared out the road, so miles and miles and miles.
- So that was the first.
- How were the living conditions in the meantime?
- You were still in your own home?
- Well, I was fortunate, because we lived in a village.
- So we can always get enough food.
- In the city, it started getting unbearable.
- They didn't have no food.
- The Germans make rationing.
- They didn't give the--
- so everything started becoming black market.
- So I used to bring from the village to the city,
- I used to bring potatoes, sneak in early in the morning.
- I used to bring butter and eggs and chickens.
- And sometimes I sneaked in calf.
- Or we sold a cow.
- For every time you went and they catch you, they would kill you.
- You see, I took chances many times,
- because they would shoot you first on the spot.
- They would kill you.
- OK, so we were doing OK, fine.
- So what the Germans started taking right in the city
- was 7,000 Jews lived in that little city Krasnik,
- and they started demanding young people for work.
- So they took one time maybe 100 or 200,
- mostly young people, smarter people, whoever
- had a little education, the first one they grabbed,
- the Germans.
- And they say they'll take you to work.
- You know what?
- They took them in the woods, and they took them,
- and they killed every one of them.
- Little by little, they were doing the same thing, you see.
- Because people were so naive.
- They didn't believe it.
- They thought they'd take them.
- They said you couldn't take nothing from your house.
- They gave you something, some little clothes, whatever,
- a shirt or something, and that's it.
- You couldn't take nothing from even the house, nothing.
- They tell you you go to work and you come back tomorrow.
- And meanwhile they're lying to you, you see.
- They took you, they killed you.
- That's it.
- So little by little was going on,
- and then they started building camps.
- They start building camps.
- So we knew already there was a process.
- They were building Lublin Majdanek.
- I heard that Treblinka and Sobibor and then Auschwitz
- come along.
- And we heard.
- We knew everything.
- Just we didn't believe it, that's what's going on,
- you see.
- And that's the way how they made the Jews to disappear, little
- by little.
- Then after a while, they killed already,
- they took all the young people, they started taking women
- and children little by little.
- And that's the way they shipped them out.
- Were you in a ghetto first before?
- I didn't get there.
- I get there when I was in the ghetto.
- So while this was going on, my mother went to the city.
- She took something to sell.
- And they had, they would say an [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]..
- That means the Germans started catching
- like you catch dog, Jews.
- You see it?
- And my mother almost fell in.
- They caught my mother.
- Finally she somehow got out and she come back.
- We was afraid that we lost our mother at that time.
- That was, I don't know, 1941 that time was it.
- Esther was gone.
- And so little by little, they were cleaning out the city.
- They were killing.
- So what did, the richer Jews from the police
- and the Judenrat, Mr. [PERSONAL NAME] used to pay.
- [PERSONAL NAME] was there.
- He was the main man, and he had a dozen or maybe 20 Jewish,
- what they want to be.
- They thought they could save the lives.
- So they become couples.
- So they give them a stick, you see it.
- And they used to beat on the people, the same thing on Jews.
- So they made one Jew hit the other one.
- You see, that's the way they organize it, the Germans.
- But also these Jews, they thought
- they were buying favors for themselves.
- Yeah, so this one favor, and he was
- taking mostly the poor Jews.
- They shipped out the first ones.
- So the rich ones thought they could buy themselves off.
- They had money.
- So they bought-- they had a ring or gold or diamonds, whatever.
- The richer ones-- there weren't that many rich.
- There was some rich ones, too.
- So they thought they're going to spare their life.
- On the last, they killed them, too, on the last.
- That's what they done.
- OK, as the war--
- 1941 the war broke out with Russia.
- And they had gone tanks and army.
- But they pushed on Russia unbelievable.
- They had such a tremendous army that nobody could believe it.
- And I could see it.
- I see with my own eyes how they were
- marching right through that city, Krasnik,
- going straight on Russia.
- They were gone by six months.
- They were pushing army and army.
- So we knew that's going to be a war.
- They're going to attack Russia.
- In 1940, they start right away, from '40, before '41, they
- were pushing a tremendous army.
- Their tanks and Luftwaffe were going and everything.
- They were going with everything.
- They had a tremendous army.
- That's what it is.
- So little by little, they start killing all the Jews.
- We had to carry signs, Juden, on our arms, every Jew.
- Besides the yellow star?
- A yellow star, yeah, that's what you had to carry.
- Meanwhile, I never wore it.
- I put one on, and I threw it away.
- Because I didn't believe it.
- I said, if they catch me, let them kill me.
- I don't care.
- So I never put it on.
- My mother said, put it on, put it on.
- I said, no way.
- And I looked-- I was lucky.
- I looked like a [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH],,
- and I spoke fluently Polish.
- While I was living in the village,
- I had a good advantage because I learned
- to speak fluently Polish.
- Mostly Jews in the city, even Jews didn't look like Jews,
- they had an accent like I have an accent.
- I mean, at that time I'm European.
- I'm not a fluent American.
- So me, I had a good advantage because I lived in the village.
- That saved my life, too, because I spoke fluently Polish.
- That was a good advantage to me.
- Yeah, so you were able to get away with--
- Yes, and I was short, too.
- That's another way.
- I wasn't too tall.
- And I got away with a lot of things.
- And I did a lot of black market.
- I was trying to help support my family.
- Because I said, we didn't have how to live.
- So as I was short and I spoke Polish, I never wear a star,
- and I knew a lot of them Polish farmers, and they liked me.
- Because we were poor Jews, and they always
- helped me when I need to buy wheat or something.
- They used to give me without money.
- I paid them back.
- That trust me, you see.
- I had a good faith with them.
- Did the farmers know that you were Jewish?
- Sure, they know.
- Sure.
- They know it.
- It was Pesach, like we used to--
- they know the holidays.
- They know everything, sure.
- That's why you always a lot of them Poles.
- They used to call, Zhyd, Zhyd.
- So sure they know it.
- Everybody know it.
- From little kid they know that I was a Jew.
- Yeah.
- So you were able to help the family?
- Oh, yeah, I was supporting, and maybe God spared me for it,
- because I went, like you say in the Jewish,
- [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH].
- I was going to give my life sacrifice in many ways.
- I never know that I'm coming back.
- And I just didn't care.
- If I'm killed, I'm killed.
- I tell you father's story, what happened in my later life.
- So during 1940, we was going with wood,
- mind you, taking wood to sell it.
- I mean, I shouldn't go back.
- It's already the war.
- That's all right.
- OK, I just give you that instinct, what happened.
- So in Poland, they got so much snow.
- And the Poles tried to slack.
- And the snow got packed up so much.
- And I used to take wood in a sled and a horse
- to the city to sell it, because the Jews need
- the wood to warm the houses.
- A lot were left, you see.
- They would freeze to death.
- So I used to sell it, used to take it down to the side roads
- before the city so before the Gestapo
- could catch me or something.
- So while I was gone, the snow was so high,
- and I drove with that horse.
- It was already March, end of February.
- And the snow started melting.
- And on the bottom was water.
- And so I throw all the wood off because my horse couldn't pull
- his legs out from the snow.
- Because he fell up, up to his belly.
- So I hitched the horse, and I pulled the sled back out
- with that horse, and I put back all the wood back on the sled.
- While I was putting the last piece of wood,
- I didn't want to waste it because it was laying,
- so I stayed under the snow, and I fell in right to my stomach.
- And water was at the bottom, all water,
- so my feet was completely wet.
- It was cold.
- So I went to the city with the horse, and I sold the wood
- and was coming back, start freezing.
- And I was sitting on the sled, and my feet
- was stiff like a piece of wood.
- I couldn't get off the sled, was completely stiff.
- So my father come in and carried me and took me down
- to the house, took me to the house.
- He took a knife, cut open the boots.
- And my mother gave me water.
- I soaked my feet, rubbed my back,
- and the next day I went back to work.
- That's the way, you see.
- We were very tough.
- Now you can ask me some more what you want to know.
- When was it that you were actually
- gathered into a ghetto?
- OK, now what happened, while we was in that village,
- another incident I had, 1942 before Pesach,
- which is before Passover.
- And I bought 10 bags of wheat.
- And I was going to another city for my farmer.
- I didn't even pay him.
- I didn't have the money.
- So I said, sell it, and I give you the money.
- He said, fine.
- And I took on a sled.
- He trusted you.
- Oh, yes, he trust me 100%.
- I took the sled, and I was going.
- 10 kilometers was another city, Zaklików, south.
- So I took the sled, and I was going.
- It that happened on a Friday early in the morning.
- So there was a little police station in Swidnik.
- The police caught me right away.
- So what happened, I bought myself off.
- I gave them money.
- They let me go.
- So before I come, I had a partner.
- His name was Elbaum.
- And the man had four kids from a different city.
- He moved into the village.
- He lived there.
- And he was my partner.
- And while I was coming, the Gestapo was in that village.
- Maybe two kilometers before the city
- the Gestapo was right in that village.
- And they caught me with that flour.
- They stopped me.
- Lucky that Avrumel, it was his name, Elbaum.
- He jumped off that wagon.
- He took his hands in the back and said good morning
- to the Gestapo.
- He didn't have no sign.
- He didn't recognize.
- But don't even point that you're a Jew.
- They didn't know he was a Jew.
- And they caught me.
- They caught me, they took the flour from me.
- So I had to wait till afternoon because they
- had some more business to do.
- Meanwhile, they caught that Jewish fellow,
- and he was out of the city coming to that village
- to try to get some bread or something.
- They had him arrested, too.
- Just I spoke Polish, so they took me
- to the station Zaklików.
- They took my flour away, the Gestapo.
- And they took me back on the kommandantur.
- Meanwhile before that, they brought the Jewish guy, too.
- The Gestapo men come down from upstairs, second floor steps.
- He pulled his Luger, and he shot him right there in front of me.
- He killed him.
- He was 24 years old, that young Jewish fella.
- They killed him right in front of me.
- So I had fear.
- I know that I don't know if I'll be able to come home,
- because I know this was a gangster.
- He had a [INAUDIBLE] on his face, the old German.
- He was maybe close to 60 years old.
- He was a murderer, a gangster.
- They took me in the kommandantur upstairs,
- and they were typing and asking me this and that.
- I told them I don't have a father.
- My father was still living, just I had to lie.
- So they asked me what is my mother's name.
- I said [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH].
- I think a Polish name I give him.
- And what is my name?
- I said Leon.
- I said Pietenel.
- So the Germans, I should really didn't give him the name
- because Pietenel too, oh--
- [NON-ENGLISH],, he said between himself.
- I still gave him Pietenel.
- That was my first name, Pietenel P-I-E-T-E-N-E-L.
- And he asked me how old I am.
- I said, I'm 13 years old.
- And he said that is too young to be [NON-ENGLISH] By 14 years,
- the German law they could arrest you already.
- So I told him I'm a Polack.
- If I would say I'm Jewish, I wouldn't be here to tell.
- I would have had my head blown off right in two seconds,
- because that would finish me off right there.
- Took the flour, so they asked me what did I get the flour.
- I told them another Jewish fellow
- was going with a bad horse, and the horse was very weak.
- He couldn't go.
- And he loaded me up.
- I was going for the woods to buy woods,
- because there's a lot of woods around there in that city
- Zaklików.
- And they were typing and typing.
- They beat me on my legs.
- They picked me up by the ears.
- They tried to pull my ears.
- And [NON-ENGLISH] and screamed at me.
- The Gestapo screamed at me.
- And I say, I would take [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]..
- I told him I would take him with my hands.
- I would know where he is, just like that.
- Just I was calm.
- My heart was pickled.
- Just I just was calm, didn't show off
- that I'm scared or something.
- So God was with me, too.
- So they asked me if I have a father.
- I said, no, my father isn't living, I told them.
- And they let me go.
- They took the flour away, and they let me go.
- When they let me go, they gave me the horse back, too.
- And it was Friday night.
- And meanwhile there was living yet maybe about 10 families
- in that city.
- And I drove up there to them so I could buy something to eat.
- I was hungry.
- I didn't eat the whole day, nothing.
- And he said, you have [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]..
- You have luck from heaven that you got out from them
- gangsters, they told me.
- I took that horse, and I hit him with a stick,
- and I just was going back.
- So by the time I got back was 8 o'clock
- at night on a Friday night.
- My mother put candles on.
- They were still living there.
- She was crying.
- She was so happy to see me.
- Meanwhile, the farmer come in, too.
- He thought that I was--
- I told him about where I got the flour.
- The farmer had seven kids.
- They moved out of the farm.
- Because if I would squeal on the farmer,
- they would burn the farm, and they would kill him.
- And I said if they would even kill me, I wouldn't say it.
- And I didn't say nothing.
- I didn't give him nothing out.
- And even my own mind I had this, I wouldn't give him out.
- So the farmer was really nice about it.
- He was happy that I didn't squeal.
- So he didn't care if you didn't pay him?
- I paid him.
- I don't know if I paid him.
- I don't think I paid him.
- I didn't have no money.
- So he didn't care.
- He didn't care if I paid him.
- I don't think I paid him.
- I don't know if I paid him.
- I can't remember.
- Maybe I did pay him before I had some money, too.
- I can remember because it's been so long.
- OK, I got back home.
- A week later the same Gestapo come in to the same village.
- So I thought they were looking for me.
- So we disappeared all from the house.
- We ran away.
- We hide herself in barns, farmer barns,
- because I thought they come in, the same Gestapo
- came in looking.
- So they came to your village?
- No, they come to the village, just they didn't look for me.
- It was lucky.
- So while this process was going on, that was 1942 already.
- The Germans decided in full what's going on in.
- I had an uncle that he was too something from the villages.
- He had to report to the Germans how many Jews
- live in the villages and how many days.
- He was on the committee.
- On the committee, like in the committee.
- So meanwhile there was a village [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH],,
- not far from us.
- I would say about five kilometers.
- There lived maybe six, seven Jewish families in the village.
- The Germans come in.
- That was already in October.
- September comes before October, right?
- Yes.
- OK, September I think was it.
- And they round up all the Jews from the village,
- and they massacred every one of them.
- Only one man survived.
- He ran, and he seen it how they killed his wife and four
- children, mind you.
- His name was Carpen, Yossel Carpen.
- And he ran in his barn.
- He lived in the village.
- He had about five acres of land.
- He used to deal.
- He was not too bad off.
- And they massacred, and my uncle had
- to come down to that village.
- And they put a massacre.
- There was about 35 or 40 people.
- And they had to bury them in one grave, all the people,
- children, women, everything.
- Broad daylight they just killed every one of them,
- every one of them.
- It was tragic.
- After all, they killed our brothers.
- It was very tragic.
- And we were afraid they're going to come to our village
- and do the same thing.
- So they said to my uncle, all the Jews
- gather from any place you live, come in one spot, Krasnik.
- That was the one place we got to come in one spot.
- So we didn't go because I know they're going to kill us.
- Because that was the end of us.
- So we thought we were going to do some hiding, go hiding.
- So meanwhile, I had another uncle living
- with his wife and kids.
- Probably a week before, they start telling us come.
- So he brought some four or five chicken,
- was carrying to the city to sell it and make business, you know.
- He all was doing.
- And the same Gestapo was driving through the village.
- They caught him right on the road and they
- shot him, one bullet with a rifle,
- and I could see he was dead.
- I didn't see him--
- I don't know who buried him after that.
- They killed my uncle.
- So we decided we're going to disperse.
- Maybe we're going to try to save our life somehow.
- 1942 was the resolution Hitler to kill every Jew,
- finish it up.
- The one to be able to work, work, and the other one,
- they're going to kill.
- All the people that took on a cemetery,
- they make them dig their ditches.
- And kids they massacre right on the cemetery,
- and they killed them.
- And a lot they took them to Auschwitz, I think
- was the last.
- So what happened, while we were running around
- and there was no place to go, some farmer let us in,
- me and my brother.
- Meanwhile I went into a farm.
- My father went in a different direction.
- And my mother was different.
- My two sisters went a different, and my brother
- was still left in that house.
- I think my father was there, too, yet.
- They told the Poles in the village, like a committee,
- you got to bring all the [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH],,
- all the Jews in one spot--
- to kill, that's all.
- So while three Gestapo coming from Krasnik,
- one was [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH].
- I never forget the names even.
- And they went into different villages.
- A lot of Jews from the Krasnik ran away to the villages.
- They thought they could save themselves.
- So they round up about 30 or 35, and they killed everyone.
- Only one kid ran away.
- He had injured his shoulders.
- Both shoulders were shot.
- I don't know what happened to him later.
- Only one ran away.
- The rest are killed.
- Massacred every one of them.
- So while I was sleeping at night,
- I had a dream the Gestapo caught me.
- I had a dream.
- And the dream was so.
- The Gestapo caught me next day, sure enough.
- I was separate in one place, and my brother
- was in a different place in different farm.
- And we just dispersed.
- And while I was coming to the village where my brother was,
- the Poles were waiting there with axes and with forks.
- So they caught my brother.
- And I didn't know that.
- I just walked in and like an ambush.
- And they caught me, and he said, if you a Zhyd,
- I'm going to kill you right away with the ax.
- He had an ax over my head.
- So they brought us to that village where we used to live,
- Dombrova.
- And there was a little tiny room, I would say half of this.
- This is big, the whole room, and one bed.
- And there was a family living, that Elbaum.
- There was an apartment with four kids, one little bitty room.
- Oh, you want to stop it?
- No, no, no, go ahead.
- So they took us in that room, the Poles, and the brothers.
- So meanwhile my father was there.
- My mother was there.
- My aunt was there with the uncle got shot, her kids.
- We were 12 people.
- And my two sisters were running around.
- Meanwhile, there was my aunt and my grandmother
- living in another little village probably a mile away.
- Because my uncle moved in because he got sick
- and he lost his leg and then he got cancer out of it
- from that snow winter, and he died.
- They went and they shot my grandmother.
- She was 75 years old.
- And my aunt was, I would say, at that time about 50,
- maybe 55 years old.
- Strong women-- my grandmother had 11 kids.
- She was such a strong lady.
- And they shot them, killed them.
- Then surrounded us, and we were waiting for execution.
- So while I was in that room, I begged the Poles, look,
- I grew up with you.
- I said, what did I do to?
- You why do you want to see me to kill?
- What are you going to get out of it?
- No, Zhyd, you're going to wait.
- They're going to kill you.
- That's it.
- So meanwhile was a little window.
- And I jumped out through the window.
- My mother and my father want I should
- live because they know that I was
- supporting the whole family.
- They want so much I should live.
- And I want to live myself.
- I was pulling my hair.
- I was 16 years old that time.
- I was crying.
- I said, I wish I would be a dog, a stone, a cat, anything else.
- At least I could live.
- So I jumped through the window.
- The Poles caught me.
- And they brought me back.
- They see me.
- There was a little shed there, and I
- thought I could run there and run away from there.
- And they caught me.
- They were watching us.
- They brought me back in that room,
- and we were waiting for the execution.
- So while they brought us, the three Gestapo
- come in to that room.
- And they open the window, and they put the machine gun,
- and they want to kill us right in the room.
- Machine gun was already sitting, just waiting, like the camera,
- just to pull the trigger and kill us.
- So my mother says to me, you know, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH],,
- why don't you go under the bed, and there was some baskets with
- potatoes and this and schmattas, all rag, all kinds of the rag.
- And maybe after this, maybe if we're going to be dead, maybe
- you survive on our bodies, my mother said,
- and my father, too.
- The Gestapo come in, and they were calling one by one.
- That woman was crying from that house.
- And there was a man from the village.
- In World War I he was a soldier in the Russian army
- because Poland was occupied by Russia up to the Bolshevik
- until Russia had a revolution.
- And he knew how to speak German, that guy.
- And he spoke to the Gestapo.
- They shouldn't kill us, he said.
- We were poor Jews.
- We worked for the Germans.
- We worked here and there.
- We don't have it.
- And order should take us in the woods, kill us.
- So meanwhile I thought they're going to kill us one by one.
- So my mother said, you better come out, because they'll
- call my father, Michael.
- Michael was my father's name, Michael.
- And he was screaming the Gestapo, up.
- So I thought when he say up, rounds, so they're
- going to shoot one by one.
- Then he called Jabramek, Avrumel was
- his name, Jabramek in Polish.
- Then they called Josek.
- Yossel was my brother's, older.
- They know I was there, too.
- He said, Lieba.
- So I come out.
- I walked like I felt so bad, because I
- know they're going to kill us.
- See, everybody left, and they want to kill us.
- And the Polack says, [POLISH].
- [POLISH] that I was running away,
- and they brought me back from that didn't understand.
- And the Polish man didn't say nothing, you see.
- The man from the village didn't explain to him,
- because the Gestapo didn't understand Polish.
- Because he talked in German to them they should save our life.
- They shouldn't take-- or take us to the ghetto.
- So they tied our hands.
- So we were four men.
- The rest were women and children.
- We were 12 total.
- They took in the wagons.
- So I know that after they didn't shoot
- or they didn't kill nobody.
- OK, they took us out.
- They tie our hands.
- My hands were tied in the back with a rope, my father,
- my brother, and Avrumel, that one, and the women
- and the children, and they put us on one wagon, two wagons,
- and they took us to the ghetto.
- They took us to Krasnik ghetto.
- And that ghetto was over 200 people.
- There used to be synagogues, and they made a ghetto out of it.
- They put fences around it and everything,
- and it was a Jewish ghetto for the last Jews.
- It was unbearable.
- There was one little window.
- It was hot.
- Two people suffocated.
- They put us like herring, one on top of the other ones.
- I say, this is the last.
- We're not going to come out alive.
- So at night-- excuse me for expression--
- my father says to me, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH],,
- save your life.
- You're not going to save [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]..
- It means my life.
- I say, if you can help yourself, help yourself.
- At night, there were buckets they give us to go
- in the bathroom, excuse me.
- Buckets-- women and children like animals.
- They kept us worse than animals, I tell you.
- Even an animal wouldn't do it.
- So in the morning, they open up the door.
- And I was the volunteer by the door
- to carry the bucket to the toilets.
- And I said, if I have a chance, I
- will run, and let them kill me.
- There still was some Jewish police and the German.
- And I see an open hole.
- It was open from the other through that,
- was like a hallway.
- In the other side, I see the door was open.
- I said, I'm going to go.
- And I just keep on going.
- And I said, they shoot after me, I just I don't care.
- I said, they kill me.
- So I run, and I took off.
- Meanwhile was a cemetery on top there.
- It was a Jewish cemetery.
- I passed there.
- And I was going back to the village.
- And my mother was in the ghetto, too, my father.
- And I come to the village.
- Where I go to a farm, nobody wanted to let me in.
- They didn't let me in.
- The farmer didn't want to let me in.
- They were afraid the Germans come in they kill us,
- they burn us, and this.
- So I was running around like a mad dog, cold, nothing to eat.
- Some farmer let me in and give me something.
- And meanwhile my two sisters were running around, too.
- Wherever they went, they chased them out.
- My sister was at that time six years old, a month to six.
- And my sister was that time about 14 years old.
- I was 16.
- I was two years older.
- And while I was going on like this, the sisters I said,
- what are we going to do?
- Nobody want to let us in.
- So I said, I go back to the ghetto, whatever will be.
- They kill us, they kill us, I said.
- So I took my two sisters, because my mother
- was in that ghetto there.
- I know they're going to-- there was no place to go.
- The only place for a Jew to go, six feet in the ground,
- and that's it.
- Nobody would let us in.
- So I went back to the city with my two sisters,
- because wherever they went, they chased them out.
- It was cold already.
- It's coming to October at that time.
- I go back to the city, and I see that there
- was a place they were taking the Jews.
- They were building a camp there not far from Krasnik,
- maybe one mile away.
- It used to be an ammunition factory,
- and the Germans made a camp from it.
- So when I got back to the ghetto,
- I see the Germans hitting on them, the Ukrainians.
- They had a lot of Ukrainians help the Germans.
- Used to hit the young fellow, Jews.
- Whatever they kept, they wanted to live.
- They brought them to a bath, because it
- used to be like a steam bath in that little city,
- a Jewish steam bath.
- Every Friday they used to go like a mikvah.
- They used to go, the Jewish people, to that steam bath.
- And I see they were beating on them and kicking them
- and with the rifles.
- And I could hear it.
- It wasn't far away, maybe a couple hundred feet.
- I said, no way I'm going to die.
- I say, I'm not going back.
- So my sisters went to see maybe you can find my mother.
- Meanwhile, what happened, my mother ran away and come back.
- And I met my mother in the village.
- So she asked me where my sister--
- I told her I took them back.
- So my mother was running back to the ghetto
- to see if she can find my sisters.
- Meanwhile they load up all the Jews, kids and women,
- whatever what left on the wagons and took them
- to Zaklików, that Zaklików that caught me with the flour.
- And from there, the trucks go to Auschwitz
- to clean up the whole camp.
- Maybe was left a few families in that ghetto,
- because they used to work for the Germans,
- used to be [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] with the police and this,
- the one who collaborated with the Germans.
- So I said, OK, we'll keep you here,
- so they kept him to the last minute.
- Then they killed him on the last time.
- Yeah, and in Zaklików, there was a train there?
- A train-- there used to be tracks, big tracks.
- There was a big railroad.
- And from there, they used to go and ship them
- to Auschwitz from there.
- I think this was when we went to Auschwitz.
- Because this was the main route to go to Auschwitz.
- So what happened, my mother went, and they loaded them up,
- and they disappeared and took them to Auschwitz.
- They caught your mother, too?
- Sure, my mother went to look for my sisters.
- And after, I felt so guilty, why didn't I go with them?
- Because we didn't have no place to go no place, you see.
- Nobody wanted to let us in.
- So while that was going on, I went back to that village.
- Wherever I went to a farm, nobody let me in the house.
- Nobody let me in even in a barn--
- nobody.
- So what happened?
- It started getting cold already.
- So I walked half to the city.
- That Krasnik used to be a ravine.
- And I walked in.
- It was raining and snowing.
- I was so soaked.
- You can wring my clothes out.
- It was big, like a foxhole.
- I walked in there, a Jewish lady--
- I used to know her from Krasnik--
- she lays there.
- She was waiting for her daughter to come.
- Froze to death.
- So I talked to her, and I didn't have no place to go, either.
- And she stayed there, and she died probably there also.
- Some Poles probably caught her.
- So I didn't have no place to go.
- So while I was coming back from the city,
- I was walking through that little village.
- So the Polacks were standing.
- I know a lot of them Polacks.
- I grew up with them.
- One of the Polacks want to grab me,
- and he wanted to grab me to the Germans, to drag me.
- So
- I pulled myself and run away.
- So I come back to the village.
- Nobody wanted to let me in.
- So meanwhile I went into a farmer
- we used to live one time in the house.
- And I asked him, could you let me go in your barn?
- He said, sure, go up in the barn.
- I go up on the barn, and I stay on top on the attic, like here,
- and there was the attic, and here was
- the barn with the cows.
- Meanwhile, the same Gestapo that had caught us,
- took us to the city, they come back
- in that same barn in the same village looking
- for more Jews, Juden.
- And there was no Juden.
- They cleaned everything up.
- There was nobody there.
- So the farmer knew it.
- They used to live three families in that farm.
- I'm laying on the attic, already start getting cold, snow,
- bitter cold.
- I lay down in the attic, and the Gestapo come in, and he say,
- [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH].
- [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] And somehow they knew a few words
- in Polish.
- And that Polack said, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]..
- He said that I would take my shift in my fingernails.
- I would squeeze his head if I would have it.
- And his wife stands in the barn.
- And I'm sitting there.
- My heart is pumping.
- And the barn was maybe 10 bundles
- of straw in the whole attic.
- There was nothing-- cold, open, wind blowing.
- I lay there.
- And I said [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] to myself,
- [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH].
- And I hoped that he didn't say nothing.
- And the Gestapo left, mind you.
- He left.
- He left.
- And he said, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]..
- He said, you know you gotta go, because they're
- afraid they'll come back and they're going to burn the farm
- and they're going to kill us.
- So I had to take off.
- It was on a Friday night.
- Never forget-- cold, snow.
- You can walk on top of the snow.
- But I bet you it was 20 below that time, already
- cold, bitter cold.
- It was quite a bit high snow.
- So I thought I will go, but I'm going to go to another village.
- Maybe somebody will let me in.
- I go to another village.
- I was walking between this village and another village.
- There was a little woods.
- And one Polish guy, I know him--
- I used to go to school with his brother.
- He worked for the Germans.
- They gave him a pistol, mind you.
- And he was a spy for the Germans.
- And when he see me, he said, hey, you [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]..
- And he was running after me.
- He didn't have a chance to pull his gun.
- He had a gun, I know.
- And he was trying to catch me.
- And thank God, that time I felt good.
- I was strong yet.
- And I run.
- I tell you, it was a beautiful night.
- The moon, you could see it.
- You could pick up in the snow a nail you could pick it up.
- He was chasing me about two miles, two kilometers.
- He couldn't catch me.
- God was with me.
- I was running like a bird.
- And while I come in one spot, I fell in the snow,
- and I lay there for half an hour.
- I thought my heart will jump out of my body.
- So I couldn't go there.
- Nobody wanted to let me in.
- So I turned around, and I was going to a different village
- again, two kilometers, another village where I know farmers.
- I thought maybe over there I go in, somebody will let me in.
- Nobody would let me.
- So I sneaked in on a barn on a Friday night.
- That was Friday night.
- I went up in the barn.
- And that Saturday at night start coming cold weather.
- Like we have a wind chill maybe 60 or 70 below, blowing,
- I thought the barn will come apart, windy, cold.
- I stay in the snow.
- I thought, I'm going to freeze to death on top of the attic.
- The farmer didn't know that I was even there.
- I stayed Saturday night, Friday night, Saturday all day.
- I couldn't feel my knees.
- I was so stiff, frozen, that I didn't know.
- Finally I thought, I'm going to get off,
- and I'm going to go see.
- Maybe somebody will let me in in the house.
- I know a friendly farmer.
- We used to deal with him.
- He was a pretty nice man.
- I walked into his house.
- I knocked the door.
- He let me in.
- The stove was burning.
- And they had some borscht with potatoes.
- And they gave me something to eat.
- And I was so happy.
- Meanwhile my knees were so frozen I couldn't move.
- So I started rubbing.
- I rubbed and rubbed and rubbed.
- I rubbed about two hours before my knees
- start coming to myself.
- While I was warming, OK, yeah, he let me sleep in the house.
- I was happy he let me sleep in the house.
- It was at least warm.
- In the morning he said, you know,
- you've got to go in the barn with the cows.
- I said, OK, I stay with the cows.
- Stayed with the cows all day.
- At night, Sunday night, he said, you know what?
- We got news the Germans coming to the village.
- You're going to have to go.
- So I took off.
- Monday morning, sure, the Gestapo,
- a bunch of Germans with trucks were going through the village.
- They were coming, taking pigs and chickens and cows,
- whatever they need.
- You have an extra cattle or something he didn't report,
- so they took him away and then they put a lot of them
- in prison.
- Otherwise they took him to Majdanek.
- Otherwise they killed a lot of them, the farmers.
- So I went away, and I got no place to go.
- So I go and run back and run here.
- Nobody want to let me in.
- They chased me with a stick, mind you.
- Some said, go, go, go.
- Some friendly farmer gave me a piece of bread.
- It was cold, bitter cold.
- I didn't have no place to go.
- Finally I lived in the same village--
- I used to go with a bunch of guys,
- the Polish fellas in school.
- They had a big barn.
- So I went up to the barn, and asked them,
- would you let me stay overnight?
- Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
- I wouldn't let you stay, because the Germans would
- look for us because we are five boys in the family,
- and they used to come chase a lot of Polish boys,
- take them and ship them to Germany so they
- could work in factories.
- Because they need slave work, because mostly
- the army was tied up in Africa, and it's still
- fighting the Russian front.
- He say, you know what?
- Two doors away my uncle's got a big barn.
- He said he got a lot of straw.
- Why don't you go there?
- And I was thinking in my head--
- I didn't say nothing to them.
- I'm going.
- I said, no, no, no, I'm not going to go.
- Meanwhile after I left, I sneaked in.
- They had the wood made there with--
- from wood made in the farm and barns, and it's all closed in.
- You can climb on it like steps, sticking out pieces
- like log houses in the country someplace.
- And I sneaked in.
- And I went up in the attic.
- There was a ladder.
- I walked up.
- And I said, I'm staying here.
- I don't care.
- Meanwhile, I was lucky.
- It got so cold I almost froze to death that night.
- I went down to a farmer, where I had my pillow,
- a [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH].
- What would you call in English [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]??
- Oh, you mean bedding?
- Beds.
- He gave me back a beddings.
- And that saved my life.
- If I wouldn't have the beddings, I would be dead.
- Because the attic was open, big opening.
- And it was cold.
- The attic still in the straw pulls.
- And I was going at night, by farmers beg a piece of bread.
- And I used to go in a farm barn.
- And I took a bottle, and I used to milk milk from the cows,
- steal milk from the cow.
- And the milk froze like icicles.
- So I used to put to my mouth, and I
- sucked like you suck a bottle with ice.
- Meanwhile it was sweet.
- It was milk.
- And that's the way I lived.
- So I stayed in that attic for six months.
- So what happened?
- While I was there, the farm lady used to come in.
- They had the cows and pigs and everything.
- She did the chores.
- After she closed the door to the barn, I got off about 10,
- 11 o'clock at night.
- And I used to walk in the village,
- just begging for a piece of bread.
- Some farmers were nice, giving.
- Some chased me away.
- And I used to steal from my dog a piece of--
- I don't know, a little pail so I could get some water
- and wash myself.
- And the lye start--
- I didn't have no clothes, all dirty, everything else.
- So what happened?
- I used to go steal farmers' hanged-up clothes.
- I used to steal burlap bags, used to have underwear,
- long ones or a shirt.
- Everything I steal.
- It was rough.
- I didn't care, as long as it was clean.
- And I stole.
- And that's the way.
- It dried up on me and my body.
- And I lived there for almost six months.
- So I was hungry.
- I had a piece of onion.
- Somebody gave me a piece of bread.
- I started losing weight because I
- didn't have good food, nothing.
- Sometimes I had one meal a week.
- Sometimes I didn't have a meal a week.
- I had a piece, a slice of bread and a piece of onion
- with the milk.
- While I was cutting, I cut my finger.
- I cut right to the bone, this finger.
- And blood was running.
- I couldn't go, no sew, nothing.
- So I kept it in the ice like this, in the snow.
- And that's the way it grew together.
- This is my souvenir from 1942 to '43.
- So while I was very weak coming to March--
- Do you also have a number, Larry?
- No, no, I ran away.
- I didn't have that.
- Thank God I wasn't in Auschwitz, Lublin, Majdanek.
- Otherwise I would be dead.
- But different Jewish-- like our friends went through,
- our brothers and sister, what they went through,
- some survived.
- They went through horror.
- I still--
- You were running and hiding.
- Hiding.
- So what happened, coming on Saturday night,
- something was pulling me, I should get off from that attic.
- And I thought she closed the barn already
- and she closed the door.
- While I was coming down, the lady
- caught me from the step coming down.
- I said, now what's going to happen?
- I have no place to go.
- So I walked up, way to the village
- at the end of the village where we used to live there.
- And we used to live in the second house
- before the Germans took us that time.
- And there was a family, Schmidt, Polish family,
- almost like a German name, just maybe they descend from German.
- I don't know.
- They're very good people.
- So when she sees me, the lady, she always give me to eat.
- They were our neighbors.
- She said, come on, Lieb, come on, Lieb, I got good news.
- I said, what is it?
- He said, come on in the barn.
- He said, I show you.
- Your cousin is here.
- He lived at a different village, Benjamin.
- He's in Israel now with another brother.
- When I looked at him, he was a little boy,
- 12 years old at that time, about 12 years old.
- And he cried.
- I said, what's the matter?
- He said, they took my mother, the Polacks.
- They caught them where they were hiding themselves,
- and a brother.
- And they took uncle [PERSONAL NAME]..
- The brother was the oldest one.
- He was 24 years old.
- And they shot him.
- They shot my aunt.
- They shot--
- And meanwhile, my uncle ran away.
- They were chasing after him.
- He ran away with his little boy.
- He was at that time, about 10 years old, eight years old.
- I think about eight years old.
- He was born in, I think, 1936, too.
- He was a little kid, eight years old.
- '36-- about eight years.
- And he ran away to a different village.
- So he cried.
- So I was crying, too.
- I said, I got no place to go.
- was laying for six months in an attic.
- And I got no place to go.
- So he said, you know what?
- Stay here in this barn.
- The lady will not doing.
- There was a hole in the barn.
- It was like a Fox hole, to dig out the hole
- so they could hide themselves.
- In case Germans come in, you could
- jump in that hole like a rat and cover up with straw.
- So I jumped in.
- While the woman come in, I jumped in there.
- So at night I went back and got my bedding back.
- And I said, I'm not going back there.
- And I didn't go no more.
- So I stayed.
- Maybe two weeks later my uncle come in to the same farm lady.
- Because they were looking for them in the other village.
- He couldn't stay there.
- And so he come to this lady.
- My uncle was rich before the war.
- I mean, he wasn't a millionaire.
- Just he was rich in average.
- He had land, and he had a big store with materials.
- So the lady liked money, you see,
- so she said she going to keep us there, that lady Schmidt.
- Did he--
- So my uncle come in.
- He used to give her material.
- Because he had a lot of material left from his store.
- He used to live by one farm, and the farmer let him have it.
- He hide it for him.
- So the lady want money.
- She was not that rich.
- Lucky she was a good woman, really her whole family.
- So we walked in there and stayed in that barn, in a barn,
- in a stable, the whole works with the cows.
- So I was going--
- it was 1943 already.
- So my uncle used to know a lot of farmers,
- used to go by the farmer's bag.
- Some give him a cake.
- Some give him bread.
- So he had money.
- You know what he did?
- He told me, you go down and start stealing chickens
- from him.
- I said, look, Uncle, they're going to catch me.
- They'll kill me.
- They find me with a chicken, kill me.
- No, you have to go steal chickens.
- Every time I went, stole a chicken,
- I used to say [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] 10 times
- because the farmer will kill you for chicken and the Polish lady
- made a soup, and she had, too, the chickens.
- So the whole family, we were all eating from the same chicken.
- The next night, I went and stole another chicken.
- And that's the way I lived.
- I stole by the farmer some wheat.
- And the farmer lady, she grind them with two stones
- by hand, because they couldn't go to a flour mill
- because the Germans didn't allow.
- So they used to have two stones with a stick,
- and they used to feed it with a hand like this.
- And they grind the wheat and then
- dry it up and then make bread so they could live.
- They had a hard time, too, the farmers.
- Because the Germans took everything away
- from the farmers in Poland.
- OK, so we stayed, and my uncle got so bitter.
- I don't know, because he lost his wife and his last son.
- And my two cousins, two sisters, they
- went on Aryan paper, Polish papers.
- And one stupid of that cousins mine,
- she come back to the village parade.
- And they follow them, the Poles, and she lived in Warsaw.
- They took her, and they killed her.
- They recognized her?
- They knew her, yes.
- And they killed her.
- So what happened after this?
- The one survived.
- She had an Aryan paper.
- She was smarter.
- She didn't come flushing back to the village.
- She survived.
- So while I was with my uncle, he become
- so bitter he started beating me for no reason.
- So one day, we went down we picked up
- some farmer cake they gave us.
- So his son, a little boy, he asked him,
- give me-- a cut another little piece of cake.
- So I went and cut it.
- And he fell asleep.
- And when he woke up and he seen I cut that little cake,
- he almost killed me.
- He almost broke my hand with a stick.
- He almost broke my hand.
- He said, this is the last one.
- Then he made me teach Alef-Beis in Hebrew, the kid, his younger
- kid.
- I say, in time like this, why do you want to learn Hebrew?
- I said, what's the matter?
- Somebody's going to hear us, they're going to burn us alive.
- No.
- So I teach him, Alef-Beis and that all back and forth.
- OK, after that, I couldn't take it.
- So what I decided, I found the guerrilla movement,
- the partisans.
- I found the partisans, and I took off-- me
- and I took his oldest son.
- He was a little kid at that time,
- 14 years old, a little kid.
- We went to the guerrillas.
- So he cried.
- He didn't cry for his son.
- He cried for me, because I used to bring him food, you see.
- I was his provider.
- Was this a Polish partisan?
- Polish partisan, was Russians and the Jews.
- There wasn't many Jews.
- Were they aware of the fact that you were Jewish?
- Well, this group, there was about half a dozen Jews,
- and the rest was Pollack.
- They were friendly partisans there were two groups there.
- Another group partisans, they used to kill Jews.
- It was very dangerous.
- So this group, they knew it.
- They didn't say nothing.
- The more people, the more they wanted.
- So while we came to the underground to the partisan,
- next morning they had some women-- they were officers,
- too, from the partisans.
- They used to have women.
- They liked to have a woman.
- So they had young girls dragged out from the farm.
- So they had sheets they hanged up in the daytime to dry.
- Meanwhile, German plane come in and was watching.
- They come in a decoy-- what do you say?
- A plane he was watching.
- So he spotted white linens, you see, and whatever.
- So they come back, and half an hour, the Luftwaffe,
- and they start bombing and they start
- shooting with machine guns, dropping bombs in that spot.
- I tell you, that's the first hello
- I heard from the Luftwaffe from 1939.
- I survived--
- So where were you in the meantime?
- Right in the woods.
- Right in the woods.
- OK, they gave me a gun.
- They teach me how to use it.
- And I was happy, at least, a gun for me.
- I was so happy, anxious.
- So every time they teach us, we used
- to go attack Germans in stations.
- Used to be one German, two Germans
- occupied three villages.
- We used to at night come and shoot the hell out of them,
- knocked them out and goodbye, kill them, clean them up,
- little by little.
- We used to watch trains go by.
- They teach us how to put dynamite sabotage so the trains
- wouldn't go to Russian front.
- That was '43.
- The German trains--
- Polish train-- Germans just used to [INAUDIBLE]..
- They have rockets.
- Ammunition.
- Ammunition and whatever, and a lot of Germans.
- So we used to dynamite the trucks at night, you see.
- Many times you go and you never know
- if you coming, because they had a lot of watching, too,
- you see with guns.
- I took a chance.
- I didn't care.
- Every time there was something to go, I would volunteer.
- Because I wanted to go fight.
- I was so much to take revenge what they had done to us.
- OK, so past '43 '44.
- In '44, the Germans decided that they're going
- to clean all the partisans out.
- So we knew it's coming.
- They call it in Polish oblava.
- Oblava means a rate, that the Germans decided to clean
- the [NON-ENGLISH].
- OK, so what happened after this, they come in.
- We was 500, 200, 300 guerrillas all over for miles
- and miles and miles.
- So we found out that the Germans will look for us
- and bring in a big army.
- So we concentrate in one spot.
- We concentrate about 9,500 guerrillas.
- It's a lot of guerrillas in one place.
- And we're going to put up a fight against the Germans.
- Meanwhile, the Germans brought a whole division--
- army, tanks, artillery, plane, everything.
- And they open up about 8 o'clock in the morning in June--
- not June, it was later.
- It was before harvest time.
- What time does harvest time start?
- July.
- July.
- That was before July, before the harvest at that time.
- They really open up in the woods, the German.
- The woods were burning.
- I tell you, I don't know how we survived.
- The leader for my group was a Polish guy.
- He had a girlfriend.
- And he got hit from a shrapnel from an artillery shell,
- blown up to kingdom, he and his girlfriend in a million pieces,
- tore him up in pieces.
- Just a shrapnel hit him from the cannon.
- And we just ran all over because we run--
- A lot of the partisan were killed?
- We dispersed.
- Oh, yeah.
- We fought as long as-- we fought four days.
- Then we ran out of ammunition.
- We couldn't fight.
- There was nothing to fight.
- So we dispersed.
- Each one went in different directions.
- [INAUDIBLE] from the camp.
- And we just run like all over, probably because of them none.
- A lot of the partisans were killed.
- The partisans.
- We dispersed.
- Oh, yeah, we fought as long we could.
- We fought four days.
- Then we run out of ammunition.
- We couldn't fight.
- There was nothing to fight.
- So we dispersed.
- Each one went in different directions.
- So while I was there in the woods, I almost got killed.
- Was in the woods while we were fighting.
- And it was a-- on a river going, and there was an open spot,
- and I had horses, and I thought I'm going to--
- I see some hay.
- I thought I bring the horse.
- I felt sorry for the horse.
- And we were almost lost my life.
- And when I walked down the little bridge,
- the Germans was on the other side, maybe about 200,
- 300, maybe 500 feet away.
- But on the other end, there was an open spot in the woods.
- And they open up with machine guns.
- And lucky-- I almost got killed, the bullets.
- I jumped in the river.
- I ducked it.
- And while they stopped, I stayed there an hour
- or two hours, and the cannonball pounding.
- And after it got dark, I walked back on a hill there.
- So 12 o'clock we decided to move out of that.
- And a lot of got killed, shot.
- It was unbelievable.
- So next morning, my cousin disappear.
- I couldn't find him, my little cousin.
- I don't know where he was.
- He was in different direction.
- So while we were walking, and Germans attacked us.
- And there was a Jewish girl from Warsaw.
- And she jumped out the first time.
- She had a little Uzi.
- And she started shooting.
- The Polack said the-- the leader, he said,
- [SPEAKING POLISH].
- "We should shoot back."
- So we start shooting back, and they ran away.
- OK.
- In the woods, they run away.
- OK, after this, we were surrounded by the Germans.
- And we had to break through the line.
- So I thought I stay right there with the Uzis,
- with the Russian.
- I had a better chance with the Russians.
- So I went down.
- I seen a General Fyodorov.
- General Fyodorov was his name.
- He had about six Russian working with him.
- He was watching.
- He was shipped from Russia.
- So I thought I stay better with the Russians.
- I have a better chance to survive.
- So I joined with with them.
- Meanwhile, there were Polish partisans there,
- and they had a machine gun, didn't want to shoot.
- And them Russians start monkeying around with that,
- they made it work.
- And they were shooting back to the Germans with a machine gun.
- And they had a lot of bullets, and they wouldn't shoot back.
- So what happened, we were surrounded all around.
- And we couldn't-- we had to break through to the German
- line.
- So I thought with the Russians, I know they're good fighters.
- I better go with them.
- So we-- the Germans start shooting.
- It was broad daylight.
- And we had to break through to a German line.
- And the Russian commander was three-star man.
- He was-- he had a big mouth, and he was screaming at everyone.
- If you move one back, one foot, I'll kill you like a dog.
- And we went on [NON-ENGLISH],, shooting, [NON-ENGLISH],,
- and going, and going, and going.
- And you broke through?
- Broke through to the German line.
- Broke through the German line.
- And we were going to the Carpathian Mountains.
- Meanwhile, while we was gone, there
- was groups, Polish partisans, the Akowcy, AK.
- He heard about it, and Mr. Fisher too I
- know about that AK.
- Did you heard Mr. Fisher about Akowcy in Poland, AK?
- But no, you didn't know.
- Well, he was in Germany.
- There was two groups that were fighting.
- They're called-- we were communists.
- We wasn't communists.
- We just fighting for our life.
- So I was with the Russian.
- There were the other group didn't
- want to fight for Poland.
- They only sit in the woods and wait in Poland should get free.
- So meanwhile, while we come through the woods,
- we met again 100 guys, Polish partisans.
- So they were the [POLISH].
- And they used to kill us, shoot at us.
- They didn't fight for Poland.
- They were sitting.
- Poland should get free.
- So--
- Shooting at the Jews or shooting--
- The partisans, different partisans.
- They were shooting different partisans.
- Really?
- Yeah.
- There were different groups.
- Like in Vietnam, used to be a communistic,
- and they called that we are communism.
- We're not communist.
- We just fought for our life, that's all.
- Just they were stupid.
- One brother killed the other one.
- That's the way they were doing in Poland.
- So while we come to the partisan,
- we ask-- and we were hungry-- ask if you could--
- could give us something to eat?
- Give us?
- Yeah, he said, give us the gun.
- So we give you food.
- I say you don't give your gun.
- You're going to die with that gun.
- The last bullet, they told us keep it for yourself.
- Never give up alive.
- So we kept on going.
- So meanwhile there were a German--
- a plane coming.
- He was watching how we walking.
- So we was always walking backwards.
- If we were going this way, we turn
- around going backwards so our tracks would show that we
- walked in different direction.
- You had to bluff, you see.
- Yeah.
- So meanwhile, we got caught by German in the woods.
- We were gone.
- The Germans caught us, a crossfire.
- They were sitting next to a woods.
- And they had them little tanks, tracks--
- what do you call them that?
- Half tracks.
- And they open up and fire at us.
- Shooting.
- And we just run to the woods.
- They caught us on an open field.
- We run, go around them, the Russian
- went around them, and cleaned up every one of them.
- I seen all of that.
- They killed every German there.
- And what they did, them little half tracks,
- they pushed them in in a river, didn't
- want we should catch them.
- They drop them in right in the river, the Germans
- so they would sink right in the ground.
- OK, so we kept on going.
- We cleaned it up that time.
- And we were going to Przemysl, not far from Lwów.
- That's already coming closer to Ukraina.
- We were walking there.
- And the Russian, the partisan decided
- there was a German convoy was going through
- in the broad daylight.
- Przemysl, they call it, Stanislawow, Jozefow.
- That's what they're calling that in the villages.
- And the Russian, the partisan, [INAUDIBLE] fire.
- We stand back to the ditches, and we open up
- and we ambush the whole convoy.
- They were burning like heck, all them trucks and all them guys
- right there.
- They killed every one of them.
- They had to fight, kill.
- Tooth for tooth.
- So meanwhile, what happened, the Russians
- were going to Carpathian Mountain, farther up.
- I decided I didn't want to go there, because the Germans were
- building on the mountains with cannons, with everything.
- And I thought I lose my life.
- So I turn around and I thought I'd better
- go back in the same woods where we used to be,
- with the same partisan.
- So we was 26 partisans from the group.
- We used to be the same group.
- And four Jews was there, and the rest was Poles.
- So while we were staying at night, the other partisan,
- one was a troublemaker.
- He said, we're going to kill them [POLISH]..
- We going to-- four Jews, we're going to kill them.
- And I heard, you see?
- So there was four Jewish guys and one Polish guy.
- So meanwhile, at night, they said, oh, the Ukrainian
- were attacking the Poles.
- They used to chop their heads off with axes.
- There was close to Ukraina at that time.
- And when I walked back to the woods, then four Jewish guys
- and a Polish fella, three, and I was the fourth one,
- run away to the woods.
- So that guy said to, you go tell him that you'll come back.
- If not, we're going to kill him, if they don't come back.
- The same-- from the same group, mind you.
- They want to kill us.
- So I went back to the same woods.
- Was maybe 200, 300 feet was it from that house.
- And I tell him-- one guy was Spirbak,
- and the other one was another one I remember.
- And I told him.
- He said, we're not going back, because they're
- going to kill us.
- I knew.
- So we decided that night we will start going, all night.
- We going to go and go and going.
- Meanwhile, we come through the same way
- where the ambush was there.
- There was Przemysl they call it, main road too.
- Used to go to Lwów.
- We come up with a big group of partisans.
- Them Polacks stand in the woods, different group.
- There were a lot of them.
- And we told them that we're going as a decoy.
- And behind us is 500 guerrillas coming.
- So we bluffed ourself.
- Otherwise, they would kill us, mind you.
- And we come back in the same words
- where we used to say first time, 19 in that--
- from the 444.
- We come back there and we stay there.
- And from there, we come into our village, [POLISH]..
- And from there, used to be a place to rest, mind you.
- And we used to fight.
- And our pants were rotted, no shoes, nothing.
- We lost everything.
- We couldn't, because mud and dirt and everything else.
- So the farmer, that was already 1944 at that time,
- harvest time.
- The Germans start retreating.
- So what happened, I stayed there,
- and we were standing outside the farm barn, all the family Poles
- and--
- We said, we'd better stay outside
- because the German were shooting,
- and the Russian were chasing them.
- And a big shrapnel almost blow up.
- We almost got killed.
- Maybe 20 feet, blow up in pieces.
- We almost got hit by shrapnel.
- So it was harvest time.
- The farmer says to me, you know what?
- Harvest time, you going to help us tie up wheat
- so you don't have to go behind the German line.
- The German line was about 30 kilometers behind Vistula.
- The Russian chased him out in 1944, you see.
- But it was 1944.
- And there's still six months till they pushed him
- after the Russians pushed the German Army over the Vistula
- in Warsaw.
- So what happened, that I stay there.
- And I decided to go.
- They gave me to eat.
- And I said, I go and swim.
- It was so hot.
- I was so soaked in from the heat, and it was hot.
- I was tired.
- And I caught a cold.
- I don't know what happened.
- I got-- I got sick that night.
- I got sick.
- I was so sick like a dog.
- And the next day I got worse, and the next day I got worse,
- and I got worse.
- I couldn't keep no food in my mouth.
- I got a bacteria.
- And there was no medicine, no doctor.
- There was a doctor from the partisans there.
- So he ask me.
- He said, what can I give you?
- I got nothing.
- I got no medicine.
- I got nothing to give you.
- So I was fighting for three weeks.
- I got so sick.
- The fever was unbearable.
- My lips were completely black.
- So for three weeks they used to give me coffee to drink.
- That's all, the farmer there.
- I drink.
- So I was-- the Russians start coming in after three weeks.
- The Germans retreated.
- And I want to go see the Russian tanks.
- So every time I was going, I was falling.
- I was so weak, I lost about 50 or 60 pounds.
- I mean, not pounds.
- Yeah.
- I weighed about 100 pounds, like--
- Kilos.
- Kilo, probably.
- Kilo.
- Kilo.
- I was weighing 60 kilo.
- That was like, now I weigh 160 pounds.
- So I lost a lot of weight.
- Like I would say I weighed 100 pounds,
- because I lost a lot of weight.
- But my shoes were falling off, mind you.
- The shoes, I could throw them away a mile.
- And I couldn't walk.
- I got so weak after three weeks, nothing to eat.
- And I was walking like a cat.
- Were you feeling better, though, starting to feel better?
- No.
- No, no, not yet.
- I was feeling so bad, I couldn't walk out.
- I crawl on four.
- I crawl on four like a baby.
- Meanwhile, the Russian passing by the tanks,
- and I couldn't see them.
- So what happened, while I was in that village,
- I went up to one of them guys from the-- used
- to belong to the partisans.
- I said, why don't you take me, ship me to Krasnik?
- That's 10 kilometer it was from that village.
- Maybe from there I can get some help.
- I come to Krasnik.
- They took on the horses, a team of horses.
- And they took me to Krasnik.
- I come to Krasnik.
- I see the same doctor from the partisan.
- And I ask him.
- He said, I can't do nothing.
- I say, help me.
- So you know what I'm going to do?
- I ship you to another hospital, 30 kilometers.
- Janów Lubelski.
- It used to be Janów.
- They ship me and a team and horses.
- I come down to the hospital.
- The hospital was bombed out completely.
- So finally, they gave me a bath.
- I say I'm a Polack.
- I didn't say I'm a Jew.
- And I spoke Jew--
- Polish good.
- I told them, I'm [POLISH].
- That mean the other side closer, to Russian border.
- And they believe me.
- And I was so weak and so sick, I tell you.
- I couldn't keep nothing in with my mouth.
- And I was so weak.
- Every time I lay on a bed, I picked up my head.
- I could see my eyes open and I couldn't
- see nothing but black, I was so weak and sick, fever.
- I had very bad fever.
- So I lay there seven days in that hospital.
- They started giving me, like, soup, something
- to stop my stomach, because I couldn't keep no food.
- And then little by little, I start getting better.
- Then they start giving me soup, and then they
- start giving me blueberries.
- You know blueberries?
- They cook blueberries, and they give me.
- That's supposed to stop your stomach.
- That's good for the stomach.
- So while I was there seven days, I felt better.
- And I thought, I want to get out.
- I want to go back to where I used to live.
- So maybe I get some food.
- I can help myself.
- So I go outside.
- And there was the Russian soldier.
- I ask him if I could take me to the city, to Krasnik.
- He said, no.
- Civil people they don't take.
- So me, like a stupid idiot, I had a few zlotys.
- There was a little stand.
- And I went down and I bought a--
- not a potato.
- An egg and the lemonade.
- And that egg was black inside.
- And when I ate this, I fell over right on the sidewalk.
- I fell over, keeled over, because that
- was no good for me.
- I was so weak.
- Like the people come from concentration camp,
- that's the same thing.
- If you look at me, I looked like from KZ,
- like I come in from a concentration camp,
- I was so skinny.
- So after that, they dragged me back to the hospital,
- and I lay four more days.
- And they gave me more.
- And finally, I got back.
- I felt that my fever was going away, and I feel better.
- So I went back outside, and I see the Russian army.
- I went there to a three-star lieutenant,
- and I said to [RUSSIAN],, I told him
- I was in a hospital [RUSSIAN],, and I talked to the Russians.
- And I said [RUSSIAN] in Krasnik.
- And he said, [RUSSIAN].
- He said he call me that I looked so bad.
- He say, [RUSSIAN],, I should wait half an hour.
- [RUSSIAN]
- So we're going to-- you always got to go to the head.
- You're not supposed to go to a soldier.
- And he took me, and we drove.
- And there was dirty road, dusty road at that time.
- And they were going to the front line
- because they were fighting with the Germans
- on the other side of that river Vistula.
- And they gave me a piece of bread.
- And I felt already I could eat.
- And the guy, the general, then took three fingers,
- and he put over my face, and he said [POLISH]..
- He said, you're young that you look so poorly.
- He said he could see it, I looked like hell.
- He know I look very bad.
- So OK.
- I come to the city, finally.
- I'm walking out what I-- from the ghetto, what was there,
- surroundings.
- I look then up.
- Who I see?
- I met my father's cousin.
- And he's in Israel, Freihof.
- And I was so happy.
- He survived from a concentration camp.
- He survived in '44.
- I don't know.
- They were taking him from Lublin, Majdanek he was.
- And somehow he run away.
- And he was saved by the Russians that time.
- Well, this was the end of it.
- And then, while I come down, I was in the city.
- And we start--
- I thought I go back to the village.
- I can get some butter, milk, whatever.
- I can come back to my feet, because I was very sick.
- I couldn't walk.
- I was hungry.
- And little by little, I started doing business
- with the Russians.
- I used to take their shoes.
- And they used to get vodka.
- That's the way they used to trade with us.
- I didn't take it.
- He give it to me in his shoes, and I give him vodka,
- and that's the way it was going.
- So while I was in the city, I start getting better.
- I lived in a city.
- They gave me a room there.
- And I used to start doing business.
- So I had a few zlotys.
- And I got to live.
- So while I was there, there were-- the war
- was going on yet, mind you.
- They were fighting by Praga, Vistula, at that time.
- And they were by Warsaw.
- So comes in a Polish nurse.
- And she screamed, [POLISH].
- That means, like, come on, please.
- Help us.
- There's a soldier wounded.
- We need plasma.
- So I told him, why don't you go get you from your post?
- They're strong like bulls.
- I said, I need blood myself.
- Like this.
- They didn't want us, mind you.
- And they want I should give them plasma.
- So that's the way.
- And while-- we lived that time, that's
- '44, coming to winter already.
- The Polish police one time--
- I already feel bad.
- I come back to my shape, and I felt strong.
- A Polish policeman comes into me, and he says to me,
- hey, Zyd, come on.
- You're going to saw wood for us.
- I say, saw wood?
- I said, the war ended.
- I was in partisan fighting for your country.
- And he was standing.
- He had a rifle.
- I grabbed his rifle out of his hand.
- And I hit him in his head, that he was full of blood.
- And they were laying right with his rifle.
- I wasn't afraid.
- And that's the way I fought.
- Otherwise I wouldn't be here to tell you, tell you.
- That's the way.
- And that was the end of it.
- You were very mad.
- I did all this.
- And then I, from there, I got back to--
- start going to-- and I changed my passport.
- I had a passport, call myself Moruwka, Leon Moruwka,
- because with the Poles used to be [INAUDIBLE] Akowcys, right?
- Even the Russian occupier, they used to kill Jews who survived.
- They used to recognize a Jew, they used to kill him.
- So I had a different passport.
- It used to be a policeman, Szuderski.
- I used to know him before that.
- My father used to always sell him meat.
- And he was a good friend, that Szuderski.
- And he made me a passport that I was
- two years younger because they want to take me to the army
- right away.
- And I said, I'll be damned if I'm
- going to go fight and kill myself, lose my life there,
- because it was a useless fight by Warsaw,
- because the Poles says that they're going to take Warsaw.
- Meanwhile, the Russian was staying in the back.
- They're watching.
- It's OK.
- You want to take?
- Go ahead, take it.
- And meanwhile, the Germans massacred
- the whole Polish army.
- There was the Vistula.
- The river was red with corpse by the thousands,
- the German massacred, because they couldn't fight.
- The Russian, had to--
- They were weak anyway.
- They were weak, and their army didn't have it,
- and there wasn't such a good fighter.
- The Russian were good fighters.
- They went through fire like nothing.
- You see, they really went.
- They gave them a little vodka.
- They didn't care.
- They say, if I die, their country is going to be richer.
- That's what they said.
- They went in a fire.
- You see it?
- Yeah.
- Did you remain with your cousin?
- Were you together with your cousin?
- Then what happened, mine uncle survived.
- I come from the partisans.
- My uncle survived.
- He went back to his house with them two little boys.
- I mean, one was a little old already at that time, in 1944.
- And it was OK.
- So suddenly what happened, he had a toothache.
- And his head swoll his neck.
- So I told him.
- I went over to that house, to him, and I said, look, Uncle.
- The Russian army is only about 1 kilometer standing.
- Why don't you get a Russian doctor, and he going to save.
- He going to help you.
- Ach, [NON-ENGLISH].
- Nothing going to happen.
- In two days he was dead.
- They killed him.
- His neck swoll.
- He choked him.
- He killed him, mind you.
- So he survived all the wars, and then two little boys got left.
- So they stay in that house
- Meanwhile, their sister come back from Warsaw.
- You see it, the Warsaw was still occupied.
- So she come back.
- No, that part, I think she was free that time,
- because the Russian--
- the Germans were on the other side of the river.
- So she come back to that same village
- where they used to live.
- And she stayed with the kids, with them two boys, you see it.
- I stay a little bit with him, just
- I didn't want to stay there.
- And I took off.
- I went back to Krasnik.
- And from Krasnik, I went, when the Poland got free, mind you,
- then I went to Szczecin.
- And I was doing business, mind you, from Germany
- to Poland, back and forth, and riding on the trains--
- mind you, on the roof.
- Two nights.
- Two days, took it in two nights.
- I was riding.
- So you mean one side was German, one side was--
- No, no, no.
- That was when the war ended, I'm talking about.
- The war ended in 1945.
- So what happened, I used to go behind the Vistula,
- and I used to go by horses.
- So while I come into a city, the Opatów
- used to be behind the Vistula.
- There were so many mines, mind you.
- The Germans left thousands and thousands of mines.
- So a lot of people got killed.
- So they had signs, don't walk through there,
- because you're going to get blown up.
- So after the Russians clean them up, the mines,
- there was thousands and thousands of mines.
- So I was doing business with horses.
- So maybe a Polack want to kill me too.
- You see, there was a plot to kill me after the war.
- One Polish guy took away a belt from me.
- I had a partisan, the white belt. He took it away.
- And I told him, don't take it.
- I say, I fought.
- He took her away.
- And two weeks later, he got killed from the other group.
- They killed him.
- And another part to the Polish, after already in 1944,
- he took my pants.
- I had a army pants.
- He made me take off my pants and walk without pants, mind you.
- He gave me a junky piece of pants, because he say,
- you're not supposed to wear because of that army.
- And he didn't last long.
- He was ambushed by the other group,
- and blown up, and killed too.
- [INAUDIBLE]
- They blow him up.
- They were used to kill each other.
- They were like animals.
- I did.
- I am not taking revenge, it's just
- that's what happened to that guy.
- And I grew up with that guy.
- My brother used to go, learn to be a tailor with them guys.
- That's the way he kept on going, and that's--
- what else you want to know?
- After?
- Yeah, so after this liberation, and after you
- did business with the Russians--
- OK, I did business, everything.
- --how did you manage to come to the United States.
- OK, so what happened, I went from Szczecin.
- We decided to go to Berlin.
- It's not that far.
- There was Germany.
- The Poles occupied that part.
- You see, the Russian, that was on East--
- Yes, East Germany.
- East Germany.
- So we contract a Russian soldier.
- And we give him money.
- And he took about six of us over the border.
- We give him money.
- Meanwhile, a lot of them Russian, there were dogs too.
- They used to take the money and they kill the Jews.
- As me, I had a pistol with me.
- And the other one had pistols too
- because I wasn't a partisan.
- And I say, look, if you pull any of us, any things,
- we blow your head off.
- You're not going to see nothing.
- So he took us back to Germany, to Berlin, on [GERMAN] Strasse.
- It used to be like a little Jewish temple, Gemeinde
- or whatever they call them, a little synagogue.
- And they took us there.
- And believe me, there was nothing to eat.
- It was unbearable.
- There was nothing to eat.
- That was 1945.
- It was December.
- And I come down.
- Lucky, from Szczecin, I brought some--
- I had some butter.
- And I melt it so it wouldn't get spoiled.
- And a boy had a goose.
- Mind you, a goose, I baked a goose right in Szczecin.
- And I through that to Berlin, that food.
- So I come back, there was no place to stay.
- I was afraid.
- The Russian were looking for young people.
- They used to grab young people and ship them to Russia
- to work.
- So what happened, I had Polish boots, long boots.
- So I was afraid they recognized me.
- So I bought long pants.
- I had it.
- And I cover them up so they couldn't spot me.
- So meanwhile, I found a Russian with a wagon, and I give him--
- I don't know.
- I had someplace-- I got a bottle of vodka from someplace,
- and I got about 10 kilo potatoes.
- So I took them potatoes, and I went to a private room,
- to a lady, German lady.
- And I brought them.
- And I told her I didn't want to stay there,
- because they made raids the Russians in that Gemeinde
- or whatever it was, that temple, because a lot of them Jews,
- survivors, used to come in.
- So they grabbed them too, because they
- thought the Germans, you see.
- So I, from there, I stayed in a private home.
- So I stayed about 30 days mind you.
- And there was nothing to eat there.
- So from there, I decided to go on a West Germany,
- for the American--
- Side.
- --American side.
- So I went in West Germany.
- You see it.
- And it used to be a lot of camps in West Germany.
- So I--
- DP camps.
- DP.
- The American, they used to support us.
- So there be kitchens.
- And we had a home.
- The Germans give us their homes.
- Because the American insist they should clear up so many blocks
- and give them to displaced persons.
- So we used to have a kitchen.
- Just one time in the kitchen, they used to ship from America,
- I used to get beans, garbage.
- There was nothing too much to eat.
- Just at least it was better than that.
- It sustained life.
- Sustained life.
- So I said-- meanwhile, I start doing business.
- So I went to Munich, Stuttgart, and I used to bring butter,
- mind you.
- One time there, I had it--
- I was arrested with grapes.
- I was sitting three days in jail because they say it's
- black German-- black market.
- Who, the Russians, or--
- The German.
- No, the German.
- German.
- The German police arrest me in American zone, mind you.
- So I told them I was going to a wedding.
- I bought them grapes.
- They still put me three days in jail.
- And the American come and took me out of jail, let me loose.
- Mind you, because they say it's black market for lousy grapes.
- Did you get the food from the farmers,
- or how did you manage to get the food in Germany?
- After the war you mean, that time?
- No, this was--
- Farmers, or--
- I used to buy from farmers.
- I used to go buy it, like the camp, what I was in camp,
- there was nothing to eat.
- They used to give you-- so I went down and I bought a ox
- from a farmer, about 1,500-pound ox.
- And he got killed.
- And I used to take it to the camp.
- | that you could get five years jail, mind you.
- Five years jail you could got, because they
- call them black market--
- schwarze market.
- And I chopped-- we chopped it up with another friend.
- We took it in the basement, and we
- used to sell all over the camp.
- So women, whoever survived, they come in
- and bought something, a kilo, 1 kilo or 2 kilos.
- We sell the whole meat.
- So we had to eat.
- Because there wasn't too much to eat in the camp.
- They give you some beans, and a little flour,
- and a little garbage.
- There was nothing.
- I used to give away their food.
- I couldn't eat it, because I couldn't stand it.
- So I used to give to the lady who
- used to take care of my room.
- I say, you can have them [NON-ENGLISH] from that beans.
- Beans like they eat here, or some different, or spinach.
- I didn't know about spinach.
- We never had spinach in Europe, so on.
- Tell me-- I didn't like it.
- The only thing I had--
- Was it the canned food that--
- Canned food.
- Yeah.
- Canned food.
- Canned food, yeah.
- Yeah.
- And they made soup.
- Day after the other, soup and soup and soup and soup and soup
- and soup.
- There was no meat or something they gave you.
- Even the American, they gave you cans.
- They mixed them up, and that's what we used to live.
- So finally, I decided to leave Germany, you see it?
- So you left the DP camp.
- You didn't stay?
- I lived in-- what happened, I knew
- that I had an uncle in Brazil.
- So I registered, and my uncle sent me papers from Brazil,
- Rio de Janeiro, and I supposed to go to Brazil.
- So meanwhile, the quota somehow stopped.
- The Brazilian consulate they stopped.
- They didn't want no refugees yet for six more months.
- You have to wait.
- I have to wait.
- So meanwhile I registered to the United States.
- So I registered.
- So I ask some friends.
- He said, where do you think I should go?
- [INAUDIBLE] What are you going to wait?
- You got a chance to go America, go.
- So that's the way.
- So I had two uncles live in the United States,
- in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
- And two of my mother's two brothers lived there.
- How did you contact them?
- I knew they lived in Milwaukee.
- So somehow I found it fast, from New York.
- So they brought me to America.
- And that was the United--
- the Jewish Joint Distribution brought me here, actually.
- And if I would wait for my uncles
- to send me a package one time, I could send them
- a better package from Germany.
- He had a grocery.
- He send me a package.
- I give it away.
- I could-- there was nothing in the package.
- So he supposed to send papers for me. he never did, mind you.
- Meanwhile, I had a grandfather live
- in New York, my father's father, because he was
- divorced from my grandmother.
- That was his second marriage.
- So when I come to the United States, I looked him up.
- I found him.
- He lived in Jamaica, New York.
- Then he didn't want to recognize me, as I was his grandson.
- So it was really tragic for me.
- I was so disappointed, after living such a bitter war,
- mind you, and coming to the United States.
- And that grandfather-- if I see my grandfather
- looked-- my father looked exactly
- like my grandfather, image.
- He didn't want to recognize you because of the divorce?
- No, no, no.
- It was a different story.
- What happened, while he divorced my grandmother, my uncle--
- mine father was raised by the aunt.
- And when he got married, and I was born,
- they told him they should give him,
- because his name was Fawel Leib.
- Meanwhile, I had a name after his father-in-law.
- He have his-- yeah, my father's grandfather.
- You're still, if you have a father,
- you're not supposed to give the name in the Jewish law,
- [INAUDIBLE].
- So he care against me that they put a name after.
- And actually, it wasn't his name.
- His name was Fawel Leib.
- You see it?
- So I told him that was my name.
- And that was his first marriage, his father-in-law.
- That's what they give him, and my father's grandfather.
- So he carried a grudge about me that I had his name.
- Meanwhile, he lived to 80 years in New York.
- You see it?
- Stupidity.
- That's all.
- Because actually it wasn't his name either.
- There was somebody else.
- Now just in Jewish Orthodox law you're
- not supposed to give that kind, and that's the way it is.
- So you didn't stay with him?
- No.
- I stay there one night, and then there was a--
- some party.
- And I went down, and I told him I
- got to see my friends who become from--
- and when I call him back, I'm coming, he said,
- don't come here no more.
- He said, no.
- So I was very bitter.
- I had to stay with somebody else.
- I stayed in New York in a hotel for three weeks.
- The Joint took care of me.
- They gave me food and everything else.
- Then, from New York, he say, they want to ship a lot of them
- foreigners and refugees all over the United States.
- They didn't want to keep them all in New York, because New
- York was so big.
- And I didn't care for New York anyway.
- I liked a smaller place so it isn't that--
- so much rushing.
- Yeah.
- So that's the reason.
- So where did you wind up?
- I wind up in Milwaukee.
- From New York, I took a train, and I went to New York--
- to Milwaukee.
- So meanwhile, while I was in New York,
- I found a friend of my father.
- He used to go to Hebrew school.
- He lived in New York.
- He bought me a suit and all my clothes.
- I throw it right in the garbage.
- It was garbage clothes anyway.
- And it was from the army, this and that.
- So he brought me that nice suit.
- My grandfather only bought me a hat.
- That's what he did me a favor.
- You see?
- And that's it.
- So what happened, I come to Milwaukee.
- I took the train, coming from Chicago,
- from Chicago, from the Joint Distribution.
- Was a lady.
- And she took me on a train, put me right on Milwaukee--
- to Milwaukee.
- In Milwaukee road used to be a train.
- While I come to Milwaukee, I looked a lady in the station.
- She come in with a nice car.
- And I talk to her in German.
- I knew that she was German, because in German--
- in Milwaukee, there's a lot of German population.
- So I ask her, would you please, in German,
- take me on 24th to North Avenue.
- My uncle used to live there.
- And she did take me to the streetcar.
- There used to be a streetcar.
- And then I took the streetcar.
- And when I got on the streetcar, I told him, this address.
- This address.
- So the guy understand.
- I just come from Europe but I couldn't
- speak English a little bit.
- I could understand a little bit, because I
- used to do business in Germany with American soldiers.
- I used to sell them cognac.
- So I learned a little speak in English.
- I knew just to get by a little bit, you see.
- And that's the way.
- And then, little by little, what happened, I lived in Milwaukee.
- Yeah, what did you do for a living?
- I worked in a shoe factory first for three months,
- for $0.60 an hour.
- Worked like a dog.
- First my hands swell up.
- I couldn't move my hands.
- And mine uncle told me, when I come to the United States,
- I used to work for $4 a week and lay in Brooklyn
- there in a park.
- I said, OK, I said, today is a different time.
- And then, what happened, I worked so hard
- in that shoe factory, and the guy
- didn't want to give me a raise.
- So I made 300 shoes in that factory a day.
- I used to put up.
- I worked like a dog.
- And so I asked the guy.
- I said, why don't you give me a raise?
- His name was Watkins.
- There was no union, nothing, so he was paying very low.
- So what happened after that, I say, I'm quitting.
- He say, OK, quit.
- So they put on my job two young boys, 16 years old,
- and half of them shoes went in the garbage
- because they didn't do a good job.
- I did a good job.
- So the foreman even was one a foreigner.
- I used to know him, Porter.
- He used to come a year before me.
- And then he told him, Mr. Watkin, I said,
- look, Larry was such a good boy, and he worked so hard.
- And he look at him, you-- and you didn't want to give him--
- he say, if you work six more months,
- I give you another nickel.
- So I quit.
- I didn't want to work.
- So meanwhile, I went to another place
- in a junkyard, a Jewish place.
- I looked in the paper, and I found this place,
- and I worked four days.
- Just the guy was so mean at me.
- He used to give me big barrels to roll, and I couldn't.
- They was too heavy.
- He had big fellas working there, Black people.
- And he never wanted-- he want me as a foreigner
- because he thought that he can push me.
- So I worked for $0.80 an hour, four days, and I took off,
- because he made me work worse than a horse.
- So after that, I looked in the paper,
- and I found there was a place to work in a paint shop, downtown
- Milwaukee.
- And I already acquired for the job,
- and they told me come tomorrow.
- And I said, OK, I'm coming tomorrow.
- When I got there, they didn't want to give me the job.
- They ask me what my religion, and I'm told I'm Jewish.
- I said, no way you can have the job.
- So I lost the job.
- I couldn't have the job because they discriminated Jews.
- So after that, I walked around, couldn't find no job.
- I bought myself a horse and wagon,
- and I went peddling with junk.
- I learned from a guy.
- And that's the way, little by little.
- And I had it, from the junk peddler with the horse,
- I bought a truck.
- I was peddling for 10 years.
- And yes, in 1949, we got married.
- I marry.
- I met a nice girl she was from Argentina.
- It was Alma.
- We marry in the Jewish center.
- And we were going about six months.
- Then we got engaged.
- We got married.
- We got married in a nice synagogue, Jewish synagogue.
- And we had about 40, 45 people.
- We have relation, and mine, and some friends.
- And in 1951 we had a son born to us.
- It was Mike, first son.
- In 1953 we had another son, Robert.
- And then, after 10 years, I decided
- I want to go a little higher in business,
- and I bought a place in Waukesha, Wisconsin,
- auto parts.
- I had a partner.
- He was not good.
- He was stealing everything and he was took advantage of me.
- I worked for three months, and I didn't draw no wages, nothing.
- I was going down and down.
- So lucky I had my own truck.
- I went back, peddling with junk, with scrap.
- And then I bought another place, and I started.
- And I had an auto parts for 31 years, very successful built.
- And then I send my son, become a one insurance.
- One become an attorney in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
- And then, after this, my wife got sick.
- In her later years, we moved to Arizona for retirement.
- Do you like it here in Arizona?
- Oh, it's beautiful.
- It's a beautiful city.
- We're very glad that you moved here.
- Well
- I'm, glad to be here.
- So now that's it.
- I never-- if you would ask me 50 years ago,
- or even 48 years ago, that I'm going to be here,
- I wouldn't believe it.
- It's a miracle that I survived.
- That was really a miracle.
- That was.
- You did some very heroic things.
- Oh, yes.
- And you are a credit to the Jewish race.
- I tell you, I tell you.
- We had another bad experience.
- I don't know.
- I should never come back.
- Just maybe you don't mind if I come back.
- You can.
- It happened after the war, 1944.
- I forgot to tell you.
- There was a family, a lady in a daughter's-- hiding herself
- in the same village.
- And the Polish fella took the money from them,
- and went and called the Gestapo.
- Reported them.
- Reported them, and they killed him.
- And they killed them.
- And then what happened, after 1944, the same guy decided
- he put blame, because they had a lot of the--
- they wasn't bad financial off.
- And they had a lot of clothes and different thing.
- And they say that-- because he found out
- that a son survived from the concentration camp.
- So that-- went to the police, and they told me
- that I stole all that stuff from the house in mine uncle.
- And they put us in jail.
- We were sitting in jail almost five days-- for nothing.
- And I never was there in that village,
- and I never worked that time, and I wasn't even there.
- And they put me in jail.
- Is this the Polish people?
- The Polish people, yes.
- They took us and put us in jail.
- So finally the Russian commandant
- was there in that village, staying all Russian army.
- And he took us out, let us loose.
- And I told him, that it was all lies.
- And they believed us.
- So this was already after liberation.
- After liberation, in 1944.
- I forgot to tell you about that story.
- That was a bad experience.
- So we were sitting in jail.
- So while that Russian captain was talking to me,
- me like a stupid idiot open the door.
- I thought he's going to do something to me.
- And I was running.
- And he unload a whole pistol with bullets, eight
- or nine bullets.
- And he almost hit me with it.
- Lucky, his-- one of his soldier come with a machine gun.
- And he said, if you're going to run, I'll kill you.
- Then he caught me, and they took me back,
- and he told me-- and he told me I was stupid.
- I was running.
- I was really stupid.
- I could lost my life.
- And that's what happened, you see it?
- It's hard to know what to do in a--
- Finish?
- To finish.
- OK.
- All right.
- So that's it?
- Well, I'm-- thank you for taking the time, Larry,
- and telling us your experiences.
- It's very, very heartwarming that someone like you--
- Believe me, it was bad.
- To survive, when we survived, there
- was miracles, whoever even hiding, whatever we did,
- we survived by miracles.
- I think that you lived in greater fear
- sometimes than those who were incarcerated in the camps.
- Yes, of course.
- Yes.
- Yeah.
- You were always--
- On the go, on the go, on the go.
- You never know what's going to be tomorrow or today,
- or it was very hard to live, believe me.
- I never thought that I'm going to live and survive.
- That was-- I never believed it in my imagination.
- Thanks, God.
- I believed in God.
- I will be, and I always believe in God,
- that God is above us, that I survived.
- Yes.
- I really thank you, and I appreciate
- that you took your time.
- Thank you.
- Being my wife, and Mr. Fisher, [PERSONAL NAME] Fisher.
- Thank you for your time, and--
- I hope you didn't get bored with my story.
- Never.
- See, he wants to finish.
- OK, finish.
- While being in the-- after--
- I forgot to tell you, there was 1944.
- And the few Jews was left in Poland.
- And the Poles found any Jew, they used to,
- when you go at night, they tried to kill you
- or they used to throw you off a train.
- There was a father and a son, mind you.
- He went to Lublin from Krasnik, 50 kilometers.
- He survived Majdanek.
- He survived the camp.
- And they threw him off the train,
- and they killed him, both of them.
- Throw him off the train.
- And while I was gone--
- This is after liberation.
- After liberation from the Russians, yes, mind you,
- what happened.
- There were some, they were very antisemitic.
- I don't know.
- Why we didn't do nothing to them.
- We lived with them in peace.
- We tried it.
- We brought the economy in Poland.
- The Jews did everything.
- They teached them.
- And they learn.
- They're very cultured people, smart people.
- They never did nothing to any country.
- Every country who didn't have that--
- don't have the Jews there, they have more problems
- than they had before with the Jews,
- because Jews are very educated people.
- And they tried to help.
- Even if they don't have to be Jewish.
- They always like to help somebody else.
- While I was driving in Praga, Warsaw, Praga, on a train,
- and I was watching, there was a Jewish fellow,
- in kapo, the Polish policemens.
- They tried to grab and throw him off the train.
- And me, I felt in my heart, as a Jew,
- because I had a passport, Polish passport.
- And I walked over to him, and I told him,
- you stay right in that corner.
- Don't move.
- So them guys asked me, what did you talk to him?
- I said, no, he ask me something.
- I didn't want to tell them that I was Jewish.
- And I was watching.
- So he went--
- Did you have a gun at that time?
- No, I didn't have no gun.
- No, I didn't.
- I wish I had the gun.
- And I really saved this guy's life,
- because I know they want to throw him off the train,
- because they went to him.
- And they were not police.
- They were disguised as police.
- They were the AK, [POLISH].
- They used to always hunt for Jews after the war
- and tried to kill them, whoever survived.
- So it really was a tragic.
- So even after liberation, you were in danger.
- After liberation I was in danger.
- That's why I had a passport, to have that Polish passport.
- They wouldn't know that I was a Jew.
- Because always-- your life was always in danger.
- That's why I left Poland.
- I didn't have no part of it, you see.
- And while I was in Poland, in that village,
- they want to give me a daughter, one farmer,
- and he want to give me two acres of land.
- And he wants to give me a pig.
- And I should marry his daughter and stay there.
- And I said, never in my life.
- I wouldn't do it.
- I wouldn't disgrace my parents.
- Even my parents don't live no more.
- Because I still keep to my heritage.
- I would never go [INAUDIBLE] put my life or my heritage.
- I would never give it up for no money in my life.
- I went through too much to go on like this.
- Well, you're just a very faithful man.
- Yeah, I would never disgraced the Jewish religion
- and my faith, because I was born a Jew and I will die a Jew.
- And I'm proud to be Jewish.
- And I'm proud that we have a country like Israel.
- If we had guns, we could fight it,
- because we didn't have the guns.
- So the Germans, what they've done is little by little
- they took us like the sheeps to the slaughterhouse,
- because they did it so ruthless, and the way they went about it.
- So sneaky way.
- That's the problem.
- But we were not a people of guns.
- We was never of guns.
- We never fight.
- And that's why they took us, and they annihilate 6 million Jews
- like this.
- Just I'm proud of Israel, that the Jews can fight, and show
- the world that we not--
- can live, and then we can fight for our country too,
- to have a country, that we can show the world that we can do--
- build something for generation, for our future generation
- to come.
- So do you think you remembered everything?
- Oh, I remember every word, believe me.
- I never forget.
- My what?
- [INAUDIBLE]
- Oh, about the sugar.
- Oh, yes.
- In Poland, the Germans told to the Poland, if you catch a Jew,
- you get 10 kilo of sugar.
- And that's what it is.
- A lot of them were looking for 10 kilo of sugar,
- just give a life.
- So they were rewarded 10 pounds--
- 10 kilos sugar for--
- They were awarded 10 kilo sugar for every Jew.
- For every Jew.
- So they were hunting for Jews for sugar.
- Yes, they were hunting for Jews.
- And while I was in that farmer what--
- the Germans come into the barn.
- I forgot to tell you this.
- And they brought a Jewish girl, and they shot her right
- behind the barn.
- I could hear the shot.
- And when they bury her, I could see her.
- I went in the woods, and I thought maybe
- I could bury her more.
- And the foxes eat up the whole body.
- There was nothing.
- Only I could found brassiere from a--
- that was 1942.
- It was frozen.
- They couldn't even bury her.
- [INAUDIBLE]
- She was a young girl.
- They brought her the farmer to show him
- they're going to do the same to him what they done it
- to the Jewish girl.
- And the shot her.
- I could hear the shot at that time.
- And so the Jews are laying all over the world, all over.
- Wherever you look, the Jewish blood is laying.
- While I was right in Germany in 1945,
- and Germans were bragging that we shoot so many Juden
- they killed in Germany.
- It was coming from the city--
- What is it?
- That was in Eastern Germany.
- I forgot-- Leipzig.
- And they were bragging in the train, were Gestapo.
- And they were bragging how many Jews they killed a little woods
- for passing by.
- And he said, we killed so many Juden.
- [GERMAN]
- And I heard every word.
- I understand.
- And I could-- I was listening, mind you.
- So they killed so many Jews right in the woods.
- Being in Germany, I almost lost my life too.
- Some Germans tried to do sabotage.
- It was a Gestapo guy in a camp.
- This was in the DP camp?
- In DP camp, right.
- He tried.
- He say, you come over to the--
- there used to be Rhine, the River Rhine.
- And he said, he wants we should come in with shoes.
- He wants to sell our shoes as just to get us down there,
- and to kill.
- And he was waiting just to-- we found out.
- He was waiting to just to kill a few Jews.
- He would try to get me down too to the Rhine
- to drown us in the river.
- Because we didn't go.
- We found out after.
- We went down.
- Just he took off.
- He was trying to kill us after a while.
- They was still--
- Yeah.
- --still trying.
- Still trying, yeah.
- Yeah, it's really something unbelievable.
- It's unbelievable.
- That's why we cannot forget that Holocaust.
- Never, never should be generation generation
- to come, our kids and our kids to be born,
- generation after generation, they should never forget.
- They should show the world, to tell them
- there was a Holocaust.
- Thanks God I wouldn't go through.
- I went through plenty of hell just the Jews
- in concentration camp, the way they
- used them, the way they brutality
- they put up against us.
- I seen in my own city, Krasnik, how they used to beat,
- and kick, and this, and break teeth and this.
- And the horror thing, put dogs.
- I know a friend of mine, they put dogs on him
- and they tore him apart because they said that he was a--
- want to go to the partisans.
- And they tore him apart, a young fella.
- He was the same age as mine, with dogs.
- They put the German shepherd.
- They tore him up all to pieces.
- That's why we keep retelling these stories,
- hoping to avoid another tragedy like this.
- I should-- I hope--
- I tell you, after would be Israel.
- I hope-- too bad that Israel wasn't born in 1900.
- Germany would never put up this.
- The Israeli pilots in Israel from the army, they would go.
- And they wouldn't-- they would raise hell with Germany.
- That's lucky that Israel wasn't born like 40 years sooner,
- or even 30 years, like before World War I,
- when Dr. Herzl wanted to put up the State.
- This is the biggest tragedy in our life.
- Because that would never happen, this, as a Holocaust either.
- Maybe it would happen.
- Just the Jews would really fight back.
- They would know what's happening in Germany.
- Like this was covered up.
- If we had a country, yeah.
- Not a tragedy that the United States, America.
- They didn't let all the Jews when
- they come in a boat from Germany,
- and they just shipped them back.
- Here comes people.
- They're not worth a dime.
- Some from them countries like from Cuba,
- killers, gangsters they let in, thousands and thousands.
- And for the Jews there was no place to go.
- And that's really a shame, that United States,
- they shouldn't let a boat or one or two boats.
- There was no place for the Jews.
- The only place was to the Germans annihilate
- all the Jewish population in Europe.
- This is a dirty shame.
- That was one of the reasons they had no place to go.
- Nobody wants the Jews.
- Nobody.
- Like Roosevelt, what would he take if he took like that boat?
- What would they do, the people would do in America?
- Nothing.
- Was afraid for Hitler.
- Look at what Hitler.
- If Hitler would won the war, there would be no America,
- I guarantee you.
- Because thanks God the tides turned the other way.
- Yes, sirree, that's true.
- If Hitler wouldn't pound on America,
- he would do the same thing what he did.
- If he had atomic bomb, he would annihilate
- every country in the world, because he was a madman, crazy.
- None of us would be here.
- No.
- No, sir.
- No.
- We hope that madmen like Hitler never rise to power.
- Never should rise.
- Never.
- There's a lot of danger within the United States.
- We hope to avoid antisemitism.
- If I see all them Nazis they allow in America,
- such a gangster, young punks.
- And they tried that this is-- this
- is-- they want a master race like in Germany.
- Look at what happened.
- Now Germany's split in half.
- What did Hitler do for Germany?
- He split them in half.
- It's going to take years and years before they're
- going to unite it, you see it?
- You can blame Russia, what Russia done it,
- because the Russian didn't want to fight.
- They lost the country.
- They fought.
- They lost 28 million people, the Russian.
- The Russian didn't want to fight with Germany.
- They've done it-- they've done in many bad things.
- They've slaughtered over 100 million--
- 100 thousand Russian prisoners in Auschwitz.
- They killed them.
- They died.
- I seen that city in Krasnik what I used to live,
- there was 600 prisoners, Russians.
- I mean, the Russian didn't want to fight.
- I mean, the government.
- In six weeks, they were dead.
- They were pushing wagons.
- They used them as guinea pig, like horses,
- to pull the wagon with beets.
- And a Russian soldier, I seen myself, picked up a beet.
- Want to eat.
- They shot him right by the wagon.
- They killed them.
- In six weeks they were dead, every one of them.
- I'm not a communist.
- I believe America.
- I like the freedom.
- I love this country.
- Because America is based on freedom.
- Just the people, only the government,
- the people they didn't want to fight the Russia,
- didn't want to fight Germany.
- The Germans wanted to fight.
- They thought they're going to conquer the Europe.
- They have to fight to defend themselves.
- And they had to fight.
- Because I know in the--
- Stalin said to the Russian, because they
- used to slaughter them poor soldiers like flies,
- fight for your own life, because Stalin was no good anyway.
- He killed a lot of Russian people.
- Because they had to fight for their own life.
- That's why they made the underground partisans,
- in Poland, in Ukraina, and all over in the Baltic Sea,
- because they had to fight.
- If they wouldn't fight, there wouldn't be living.
- They wouldn't have the country.
- That's right.
- And to be free, you got to fight.
- That's what it is.
- You've got to fight.
- Well, we need more brave men like you, Larry.
- Believe me, I wish I had more like me,
- because I want to fight.
- I don't care if I die.
- Just for freedom I will fight to death.
- That's right.
- Just to be a free man.
- I come into Milwaukee, 1947, in '48,
- when Harry Truman was there speaking.
- And I-- there was a county executive.
- And they ask us opinion about the United States.
- And I said, to be free, that means more than anything
- else in the world.
- If you can free, nobody knocks on your door
- and take you out because of a religion of anything else.
- And when the county executive went out on a podium,
- and he started talking to introduce Harry Truman,
- he used my words, and he said, about here
- come a foreigner from Europe, and what he expressed himself.
- That's what.
- He use my words.
- And I'm not lying.
- This is the truth.
- Unfortunately a lot of Americans take freedom for granted.
- Yes, many times I've fought in my business,
- when American people say we need communism.
- Communism is the same as fascism.
- They only have a different name.
- They're preaching the same thing-- subversion, killing.
- And that's it.
- There's no freedom.
- And I fought with many American people.
- I said, if you don't like this United States, I will pay you.
- You can go to Russia, live there.
- Yes.
- Thank you.
Overview
- Interviewee
- Larry Weidenbaum
- Date
-
interview:
1988 December 13
Physical Details
- Language
- English
- Extent
-
2 videocassettes (VHS) : sound, color ; 1/2 in..
Rights & Restrictions
- Conditions on Access
- There are no known restrictions on access to this material.
- Conditions on Use
- No restrictions on use
Keywords & Subjects
- Topical Term
- Holocaust, Jewish (1939-1945)--Personal narratives. Holocaust survivors--United States.
- Personal Name
- Weidenbaum, Larry.
Administrative Notes
- Holder of Originals
-
Phoenix Holocaust Survivors Association
- Legal Status
- Permanent Collection
- Provenance
- The interview with Larry Weidenbaum was conducted on December 13, 1988 by the Phoenix Holocaust Survivors' Association in affiliation with the Cline Library of Northern Arizona University as part of a project to document the testimonies of Holocaust survivors in the Phoenix, AZ area. The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum received a copy of the interview in 1989.
- Special Collection
-
The Jeff and Toby Herr Oral History Archive
- Record last modified:
- 2023-11-16 08:09:52
- This page:
- https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn512542
Additional Resources
Transcripts (2)
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- See Rights and Restrictions
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- This record is digitized but cannot be downloaded online.
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Oral History
Oral history interview with Fanny Schlomowitz
Oral History
Oral history interview with Samuel Soldinger
Oral History
Oral history interview with Henry Sontag
Oral History
Oral history interview with Anna Spitz
Oral History
Oral history interview with Arthur Spitz
Oral History
Oral history interview with Harry Spitz
Oral History
Oral history interview with Heddy Spitz
Oral History
Heddy Spitz, born in 1920 in Munkacs, Czechoslovakia (Mukacheve, Ukraine), describes her family’s business running a grocery, a dance hall, and a restaurant; being driven out of their homes with 30,000 other Jews to a ghetto area for three weeks in May 1943; being sent to Auschwitz, where her mother and two of her sisters were immediately gassed; marching with her sisters to the East where they were able to separate themselves from Nazi marchers by hiding in a barn; being saved by Russian workers who allowed them to stay in their homes and because they had no numbers on their arms and could speak Russian; working in the fields until the Russians liberated them; registering in Germany to go to the United States after the war; opening a business in Phoenix, AZ; and having four children.
Oral history interview with Agnes Tennenbaum
Oral History
Oral history interview with Magda Willinger
Oral History
Oral history interview with Al Wulc
Oral History
Oral history interview with Bertha Wulc
Oral History
Oral history interview with Blanch Robin
Oral History
Oral history interview with Gertie Blau
Oral History
Oral history interview with Lillian Feigen
Oral History
Oral history interview with Nancy Fordonski
Oral History
Oral history interview with Gisella Fry
Oral History
Oral history interview with Shirley Lebovitz
Oral History
Oral history interview with Marion Katzman
Oral History
Oral history interview with Frieda Radasky
Oral History
Oral history interview with Solomon Radasky
Oral History
Oral history interview with Maria Segal
Oral History
Oral history interview with David Silver
Oral History
Oral history interview with Leo Smilovic
Oral History
Oral history interview with Risa Stillman
Oral History
Oral history interview with Adele Weisman
Oral History
Oral history interview with Paul Weisman
Oral History