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Oral history interview with Bart Stern

Oral History | Digitized | Accession Number: 1994.A.0447.25 | RG Number: RG-50.042.0025

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    Oral history interview with Bart Stern
    Transcript
    I mean the transport to Birkenau.
    We were taken out of the ghettos,
    or actually, of the particular ghetto
    we were in, and herded in groups of about 500, 600.
    And were told not to take more than just little hand bundle.
    The Hungarian gendarmerie, a kind of martial or sheriff,
    but primitive characters, were driving us
    to the railroad station.
    And when we arrived there, we were pushed up
    on railroad cars, actually cattle cars.
    But the amazing thing about I still
    remember is that on the way, being driven, or herded
    by the Hungarian gendarmes, we were singing songs of hope.
    And I do not remember exactly how to translate the song,
    but I know which part of this Psalms it is in.
    And we thought that we are already enough in it.
    We were about 50 people or 60.
    20 more, 30 more.
    So we must have been in a little cattle
    car, which is about a third of the size
    of an American railroad car.
    About 120, 140.
    And before we knew, whoever didn't make it up
    with the family in the same car was cut off,
    and they just slammed the doors.
    And those who were outside, they still
    had to put barbed wire on the little bit of opening,
    which was on the outside, on the top of the railroad car.
    And these cars were usually used for cattle transports
    or for grain.
    In the car, the situation got by the minute worse and worse.
    People were looking to find a spot for the elder people
    to sit down.
    There was no space to sit down.
    Because if you sat down, you couldn't get up.
    Because we were herded in, stretched like sardine bars.
    The journey actually lasted--
    Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday-- three nights and about three
    days.
    If anybody had something to eat-- because in the ghettos,
    we already used up most of the stuff.
    But we have been successful taking out of our homes
    when we were taken out into the ghetto.
    Had to share it with others.
    But then we realized that this is not a simple journey
    of just a few hours.
    People were holding back or couldn't just generously pass
    it out to others.
    Then suddenly, we start seeing that people are taking care
    of their needs in the cars.
    And the stench got worse every minute.
    And they were-- the people who converted to Christianity with
    the hope that they will be spared because the church has
    encouraged them, said, look, if you give us your belongings--
    these were still in the good days--
    you will get free pass.
    You'll become a Christian.
    But when it came to that, even they were driven onto the cars.
    They were the first suicides.
    So we had death in the car, sickness
    in the car, heart attacks.
    People who were taking medication couldn't take it.
    It was just undescribable.
    As a matter of fact, I can't recapture the moments of it
    myself.
    Because if I do, I go just crazy.
    I mean, you see their own family languishing in bowel movements
    and these kind of things.
    It was a terrible scene.
    Or people who wanted to say their prayers started to say
    it, and others say, you cannot do that in a place which is
    unclean.
    It's against the law.
    It's better if you don't say it.
    There were very, very tough moments.
    I mean, matter of fact, we didn't
    want to resignate to despair.
    And whoever trying to look out when we went through stations,
    through that little bit of opening,
    couldn't even decipher where we are and what's going on.
    And those were-- which we called them on the watchout.
    But we still cared or ventured to get up.
    Because you had to stand on the shoulders of others.
    Said, you know, we see a lot of people.
    And they know that we are going by here.
    They will notify the authorities.
    It was just a dream.
    Or others said, they are just laughing.
    And there was no water.
    Even if you stop somewhere, nobody
    could move out because the cars were pretty--
    they're locked.
    There was no chance whatsoever.
    Until we arrived to Birkenau.
    And that in itself is a story that I hope people know by now.
    They opened up the--
    we arrived.
    What we really realized at that point
    when we arrived in Birkenau, which was very early
    in the morning, and we were standing
    there much longer than we were standing on other stations.
    And we smelled the stench of the burning flesh and bones.
    The amazing thing is that we were not
    allowed to have radios.
    Jews were not allowed to have radios.
    In those days, a radio was not something
    that you go into the store and buy it.
    You had to buy it from a licensed location,
    register it, because you have to pay
    a yearly fee to the government.
    So everybody who had a radio-- was just like having a car.
    Both registered.
    And then you were to come for it.
    So we had to give the radios back.
    No Jew was allowed to keep a radio.
    But we had one hidden in the deep basement.
    I did not even know about it because I was too
    young to [INAUDIBLE] do that.
    We were always afraid if something or somebody's
    discovered.
    The older people or the older members of the family
    can withstand the torture of the authorities.
    But the youngest were not trusted in that.
    But when we come there, though, me older brother says,
    this must be Auschwitz or Birkenau,
    what we heard on radio.
    They would go down to the basement,
    cover themself up with blankets, and listen to the foreign news.
    Nobody was allowed to listen, not even the Gentiles.
    And I guess it was so gruesome to want
    to believe that it is possible that they
    are having crematoriums and burning people.
    So then my brothers, one of them says to the other,
    this is it, what we heard on the radio.
    And this was really the first time
    that one came face to face with reality.
    So tell me what happened when you came out of the cars.
    The doors were suddenly opened.
    These were fairly wide doors.
    And so people literally fell out on both sides.
    And the Germans came with their dogs
    and said [GERMAN],, means out, out, out.
    So whoever could get out got out immediately.
    And there were some that were dead or couldn't move,
    so we had to take them out.
    And we were told the bundles to be put on one side
    and line up on the other side.
    So everybody had to give up whatever little belongings he
    had, which was really very meager.
    But it meant survival that we would
    have what was the specialty in those days, redried bread.
    So it was bread that it was dried two or three times
    so that it has long shelf life.
    And some people had their prayer books.
    This was one of the most important treasures.
    Or the Tefillin, the phylacteries.
    And so we had to go through a row
    that everybody gave everything up and went to another line.
    There, we were standing in line and we
    saw the chimneys and the really flames going out.
    And that the very thick smoke, dust landing
    on us and on the grounds.
    And we were there lined up and had to go through a gate.
    In that gate, there was a few very high-ranking officers.
    We assume that they are high ranking
    because they were differently dressed
    than the other soldiers, which we saw some had the SS mark.
    That figure was already known to us
    by the occupation of the Germans.
    And others had the [GERMAN],, which means the dead head.
    Dead head marks.
    And they ordered us to go to the gate.
    And at the gate they're standing at,
    these high-ranking officers with white gloves, shiny boots,
    and with a baton, right and left.
    So the one on the left--
    I think that the left meant that they went to death
    and the right went to work.
    When we--
    We're just running out.
    Let's just stop and put another log on.
    OK.
    Did you hear them?
    Changing, changing film.
    Camera roll two is up, sync take two is up.
    I want you to continue and talk about--
    although you and your brothers might
    have known where you were, did people know where they were?
    Did they know what was happening?
    No, they had no idea.
    I don't think so that they knew.
    Maybe some others knew also a little bit.
    But overall, I don't think that anybody knew what was going on.
    There was some talk that the resettlement for work
    was just taking out of our homes going into other areas
    to do hard labor.
    But nobody really knew until that point
    that there was going to be killing people.
    Nobody had any idea of that.
    Matter of fact, when somebody said
    that in line, while waiting to be sorted out, said,
    don't talk ridiculous things.
    Look, this nice shower.
    There was one building which had indicated that it's
    a shower room and so on.
    But almost immediately, we realized
    that situation is different.
    Because while we were standing in line,
    we already saw from evidence of the previous arrival.
    Those who were assigned to work, naked women, standing in line.
    And another group on the other side, naked men.
    It was, at that point, extremely demoralizing.
    And we knew that this is not something which is normal.
    And they were not--
    the ones who we saw naked were not older people,
    but they were all the ones who were
    going to go to work if not to be gassed.
    It was very-- every second was a different thought.
    Everybody thought it was something else.
    And everybody wanted to believe it is something different.
    So that we really did not know.
    We had no idea that they did this.
    Really possible.
    It's a difficult task.
    I mean, bitter pill to swallow to think
    that if a certain theory is correct, then
    those who went on the other side,
    your parents and younger brothers and sisters
    are going to be killed.
    So we really didn't want to realize,
    even if it was a fact that we knew
    that there's nothing to do.
    We're surrounded here by Gestapo and SS.
    This is going to happen.
    So we had no idea.
    Even that what my brothers knew or somebody else who knew that
    didn't seem to be real that it could happen.
    So I really don't think so that we knew anything.
    And so tell me what happened then about registration.
    Yeah, I mean that time, was no registration yet.
    What it was is that the smaller part
    of the people who were taken to labor
    were taken into processing.
    The processing meant had to give up all our clothes.
    And the Kanada commander which was handling the--
    call it processing or receiving of those to go to work
    had to take apart their clothes to see whether there
    is no valuables in it.
    And some people were even kept for a day or two
    there that they should have their bowel movements.
    Because they must have found before in the people
    have swallowed some valuables, some rings.
    They told the story that there came one group,
    I think they were Dutch people, and they
    had rolled very thin dollars.
    Because the dollar was almighty.
    But, and they swallowed it.
    They put an into a condom and swallowed it.
    Though they have done that as well.
    The shower rooms, what we have experienced, which some of them
    thought that is actually to be either
    to be scalded with hot water, to be burned, or damaged the skin.
    It was really showers.
    Went to disinfecting station.
    Then we came out on the other side.
    We were given a camp uniform, which was kind of a pajama,
    really.
    Blue and white stripes or gray stripes and blue stripes.
    And from there, we were--
    and everything was in driving, [GERMAN]..
    This was a demoralizing process.
    And I think that we were demoralized by the second.
    I mean, you moved where that was.
    And then we were driven into barracks.
    We came into barracks, we couldn't believe it.
    Which had three shelves for sleeping facilities.
    And it took--
    I think we arrived early in the morning.
    Until late, late afternoon, they gave us a semblance
    of what was called a soup.
    And people refused.
    First of all, it tasted terrible.
    The pots and pans what they served it in,
    the cups which were-- the cups which taken from the people who
    arrived, this was our cup which we had to hold onto
    to get our food in the future.
    Smelled very bad.
    And many people didn't want to eat because it was not kosher.
    They refused to eat.
    So until after a day or two, there
    were some learned rabbis in the group.
    They said, listen, don't let's do the job,
    help the job of the murderers.
    We must eat.
    And actually, it's a commandment to survive.
    If you're going to do everything possible to survive.
    We will outlive them.
    And this is how was hope was built in us.
    And these people have given us tremendous hope.
    Because I was a kid.
    And there are many others who were younger than me.
    And so we defied them already.
    We were given beatings.
    Instead of caving in, we showed that we do not cave in.
    We are not that easy prey.
    And we were in those barracks for a few days.
    And then we were taken to Auschwitz.
    I don't know how many miles it was a walk.
    But I do remember the day we were taken out
    of barracks to be walked to Auschwitz,
    it was the strongest pour I've ever experienced.
    Not even an Indian during monsoon was such a pour.
    We were drenched in water and waiting.
    We did not know what's going to happen.
    Then we were taken, or driven, to Auschwitz with hound dogs.
    And it was a sport to get us every so often to run, almost
    to the point of exhaustion.
    We finally arrived in Auschwitz.
    And there was a registration, really.
    This was the first time they were-- we were registered.
    And we were tattooed.
    Like I have my tattoo on my left arm.
    And there was a--
    the registration consisted of a rather small card of 3
    by 5 or maybe 4 by 6.
    They wrote down-- you had to give your family name,
    your surname, father's name, mother's name, where you come
    from, what are your professions, what can you do,
    what are you capable of doing.
    This was for the purpose so that they can clean the people
    for the various jobs.
    And we were there for a couple, three days.
    And there, we were indoctrinated every minute.
    If only one of us will dare to do this or dare to do that,
    we will be put to death.
    And not only the person who is going to be found to be guilty,
    but the whole crowd, the whole barrack, the whole group.
    And then we were warned constantly
    to know that nothing will be tolerated here.
    That with one machine gun, they can wipe out all of us,
    or we can be always taken back to Birkenau,
    where they're going to burn us.
    By that time, there was no secret
    anymore that those who were taken on the other side
    were to be gassed.
    So this was actually kind of an indoctrination to submission.
    And we have all encouraged each other not to give up.
    Even if you take it to work.
    To where we were always plotting, how are we going to--
    can we sabotage them?
    What can we do?
    Let's just wait for a minute because this noise, I think,
    is too much.
    Some you can take out.
    OK.
    You were talking about sabotaging and plotting
    all the time.
    And this was our preoccupation at that point.
    How are we going to do that?
    What can we do?
    Because they told us, the Germans, that escape,
    no chance.
    Because we're in hostile territory with all the
    Pollacks, and they hate the Jews.
    There's no chance for a Jew ever to survive
    even if he should be able--
    if he has a dream to get out.
    The Poles out there, they're bloodthirsty for Jews,
    for Jewish blood.
    And the Poles are not going to let us ever survive.
    So this was clear to us.
    And then we got confirmed that this Brzezinka, Birkenau,
    which was known Brzezinka in Auschwitz,
    which in German was Auschwitz, but in Polish was Oswiecim.
    And we realized that we were really in enemy territory.
    Therefore, our chances to survive there would be none.
    So we figured, how else can we do that?
    Of course, we had dreams that the American reconnaissance is
    going to bomb the railroad tracks,
    they'll bomb the crematoria.
    Dreams we had.
    We had great dreams and great hopes.
    And we had, really, in the camps people who--
    they literally sacrificed their life
    to send words of encouragement or to sneak in
    into other groups to tell us not to despair.
    Then we were singing songs of hope.
    The kind of songs we sang when we were
    taken to the railroad cars.
    OK.
    We have to reload.
    OK.
    Why don't we pick up, starting with singing songs of hope.
    And then can you tell me how you and your brothers
    supported each other in the time you were together?
    In Birkenau and Auschwitz, we were four of us together.
    And in Auschwitz, we were divided.
    One of my brothers was taken to a different working commando.
    Also, we made every effort to stick together,
    but it was not possible.
    And another brother still remained in Auschwitz.
    And I went with my other brother to Jaworzno, to a coal mine.
    And that coal mine had also big construction
    of a power-generating station.
    Supposedly, the highest chimney in all of Eastern Europe.
    And they had various commandos in the various coal mines,
    and the chimney building, and railroad construction.
    And there was all the commandos who
    were still enlarging the camp.
    Because the camp was a small camp to the house about 500,
    600 forced laborers, which we were called forced laborers.
    And at that point, we were 7,800.
    So the question was here, everybody
    was assigned some kind of underground duty
    within us to see whether it's possible to have a tunnel
    to go.
    But then others said, don't waste energy on that
    because we know that we will end up just in a Polish village.
    And chance to survive is zero.
    Another thought maybe we should do something that the coal mine
    caves in and therefore, they will realize that they cannot
    continue because they have a refreshed group of people who
    will sabotage them.
    Other thought that we should do something with the chimney,
    with the power-generating plant.
    We had all great ideas.
    And on a smaller scale, we did.
    Because some people really risked their lives to
    defy them.
    I mean, I have one experience, which actually gave me
    a chance to survive.
    I was working in a coal mine I was kind of a gopher.
    How did I become a gopher?
    The German civilian population who were working in the camps,
    they were not really German from the motherland,
    but they were what they called false German.
    They were second, third-grade Germans
    but lived in Poland for a long time.
    They were the so-called engineers and foremen.
    But some of these guys could not read the paper.
    So he took a cutting of a paper and he let me interpret to him
    what it meant.
    Because they were also terrorized.
    They could not talk to each other politically
    what's happening.
    And this same guy who I worked for, we would get everyone's
    another shirt.
    If the shirt was good, he was suppose to give a half a loaf
    of bread and give an old shirt.
    Because even the good shirt what we got tattered up
    in a matter of days.
    So I was kind of his gopher boy.
    He would send me for equipment this and that.
    These coal mines were exhausted mines.
    But with cheap labor and war effort going on,
    they needed to exhaust-- to explore
    every bit of coal they could.
    I don't know, I heard this that it goes by BTU heat unit
    for so much.
    But the further the mining is-- because it is wet somewhat,
    it has less BTU units.
    And whenever we would have to use--
    I don't know if people know what coal mines are.
    They are several yards underground.
    And it is just dynamited out a certain artery.
    And then it's built out, put in railroads to get out the coal.
    And if you hit in a very bad artery,
    you have to go much deeper to get the dynamite into there
    to get more of the coal coming out.
    I don't really know the mechanics of it very well.
    But it meant that we had to drill very deep to put
    in the dynamite this deep.
    The coal did not come out in the same extent as the good coal.
    And then really, we would have literally
    to crawl on our bellies and drag out with our fingers and nails
    the coal.
    And very often, while pulling it out, it would cave in
    and would bury 20, 30, 40 people.
    Just recently, I read in the papers
    that it happened in Turkey.
    And I have a very good idea of what it means.
    So when I was sent to get the longest drill, which
    meant this is going to be one of the hardest jobs we will face,
    the others did not even know.
    Maybe one or two of the fellows knew that I'm
    sent back for the long drill.
    The coal mine is like a little city.
    Has streets here and street there.
    And here, they have a little storeroom for supplies.
    And here, there is the repair shop for the lorries.
    And when I went to get the drill,
    I realized that I'm going to endanger many people's lives.
    Because if it doesn't cave out too high,
    we have to do it on our bellies.
    And many could be--
    I decided at that point to break the drill.
    How do I break the drill and to save my life, too?
    I was not really willing to die unnecessarily
    if I don't have to.
    Figured I have the excuses that I tripped in the railroad
    tracks.
    Because there was always water.
    The water was not pumped out like in a normal coal mine.
    Every coal mine has water.
    And I broke the drill.
    Of course, this is considered sabotage.
    Even if it would have been an innocent matter.
    Everything that it was not pleasing was sabotage.
    Sabotage was the ultimate thing is to kill the person.
    But to my good fortune, the man who would have the support
    to do the killing has left.
    He was a very high-ranking officer.
    He left.
    It was already 11:00 or 12:00.
    And he left, I think, at 9 o'clock.
    Because we were working a shift from 2:00 in the afternoon
    until 2:00 in the morning.
    So my number was taken.
    And tomorrow will be my day of reckoning.
    Of course, I had advice from others
    how to go about it, what to do.
    And I was fortunate to get myself into the infirmary.
    Well, there was certain process how you got in
    and what kind of sickness you simulated
    that it shouldn't be considered a sickness that you can not
    get cured within two days.
    And actually, I was taken out of that infirmary
    by Mengele, who came into the infirmary.
    Certain people, he called by numbers.
    They were destined for death.
    And some of them, he just said, whoever
    wants to go for recuperation.
    Outside was a big covered truck, with about 50,
    60, or 70 dead bodies, and about 20 very sick people,
    and a few saboteurs like myself, criminals.
    And we went our way to be cremated, to gassed
    and cremated in Birkenau.
    And if there is hope and there is faith,
    that were the litmus test for us.
    There was one man--
    it was Saturday afternoon.
    And Saturday afternoon is the seudah shlishit,
    the third symbolic meal.
    For that symbolic meal, one has to wash hands,
    evoke a prayer over bread.
    He said, it's time to say the prayers for sitting down
    to the third meal.
    And he started singing.
    We were singing.
    The four or six Germans in the cab
    in front with the machine guns thought, the Jews are crazy.
    Here, they're going to be burned in another hour,
    and here, they're singing.
    We arrived to Birkenau.
    And we were not processed like we knew it from
    before that you go to so-called shower
    room, which meant the gas chambers and then
    the crematoria.
    But we were taken in in the same process like when we arrived
    to be processed for work.
    And there is always a German doctor with white gloves
    and shiny boots, very proper uniform.
    Alongside him is the Jewish camp doctor.
    Because if something had to be checked,
    well, the German doctor would never touch the prisoner.
    But the Jewish doctor would do that.
    And the Jewish doctor--
    this was the only time when the little card
    system was transferred from one came to another.
    German order had to rule.
    It was not just without any method.
    Of course, they did that so that they should not--
    they should be able to keep count on people
    so that nobody can escape.
    They were very much frightened that if somebody will escape.
    I mean, I don't know even if they would have escaped.
    The only ones who ever escaped there were Poles.
    Wait.
    We have to reload.
    Changing film to camera four.
    Scene, take five.
    OK, One of you start.
    And the German doctor--
    I mean, excuse me--
    the Jewish doctor, he read the card twice
    because he could not question whether I'm
    from there or there, only what he saw there,
    because the German doctor was alongside him.
    He asked me again whether I come from that particular town
    [GERMAN].
    It was just in code language.
    And we were, to great surprise, not taken to the gas chambers,
    nor we not cremated, but put into another block, which
    we found out this was the first Saturday afternoon and Sunday
    that the gas chambers were not functioning,
    nor the crematoria.
    And I have later visited with a general,
    one who was a survivor-- who was a liberated of Auschwitz--
    I was also visiting at the Pentagon in Moscow.
    And they still couldn't give a very clear answer
    what has happened there.
    As a matter of fact when the general was here
    to a Yom HaShoah event.
    And I asked him, I says, tell me, how come the Germans were,
    in the last two weeks, gone a few times and came back,
    why didn't you-- and we heard your cannons--
    why didn't you come in and liberate the camp sooner?
    And he suddenly lashed out and me and says,
    the American liberators accused us of not caring,
    but it was one of the hardest battles we had.
    And to justify their reluctance, he says,
    we lost the finest Jewish generals at Auschwitz battle,
    which I still to this very day don't believe.
    But the crematory did not function.
    So we were put in the holding barrack
    to be there till Monday, when the crematory will
    be functioning again.
    But that night-- this was Saturday when we came,
    January 6th, exactly three weeks before being liberated
    at Birkenau--
    came the Jewish doctor.
    As you probably know, the curfew was 8 o'clock.
    Nobody could was even allowed to open up
    the door of the barracks, not to step out.
    Not anybody allowed in the camp.
    And the searchlights were going on all the time.
    Here comes the German doctor--
    the Jewish doctor, which we later learned his name
    was Professor Epstein from Prague.
    And he calls my name at the door.
    I came out.
    I say, yes.
    He says, Stern, at roll call, which
    6 o'clock there was roll call, you
    sneak into working Kommando.
    Don't come back to the barrack.
    And everything had to go with seconds there.
    There was no time for dilly dallying around.
    And I asked, can I tell it to others
    if they are capable to walk, to go to work?
    This is what I did.
    And I ended up in a working Kommando.
    And consequently, I was liberated in Auschwitz
    three weeks later.
    And I was starting-- we arrived--
    so hope-- anyway, we arrived in Auschwitz
    and went to the working Kommando,
    we already knew that things are very shaky here,
    that something's going to happen.
    How can we have a chance to survive
    and not being killed by them.
    So there were some thought that we
    should blow up some sentries-- blow up with what?
    And we should do this and that.
    By the way, when the Germans moved the first time,
    we found out that they are not in the center,
    they have disappeared, we have burned down
    everything possible so that if they should come back
    they don't have where to go back.
    But, of course, we did it, but it did not help us.
    They came back.
    And at one point, we succeeded to kill a few Germans.
    I was not involved in that particular group.
    And, of course, it didn't do us any good,
    because they didn't shy away that they ran away.
    And we had a few things that we could do to discourage them.
    But it didn't matter.
    Because in the long run, they won.
    There were the death marches.
    And when they came back, they always
    moved, transported large groups.
    Until four days before our liberation,
    for five days before the liberation, they came back.
    And they said every Jew, without any exception,
    get ready for death march.
    Actually, that's where the death march came from.
    And I don't know how and what, where I got the strength,
    but I succeeded to remain in the camps.
    I mean, that simply, it was not.
    When they came back the last time,
    we were on those shelves sleeping in the barracks,
    there was either saw dust we slept on or straw.
    They did not ask one of the inmates
    to move up, to shake up the straw, the sawdust,
    but German's themselves, they did this, the Gestapo, the SS.
    And here, the high ranking officers
    were with strong flashlights in one hand.
    And the pistol in the other hand, to be sure that nobody
    stays on.
    And it was by the greatest miracle that I survived.
    There was-- every barrack had a little cabin
    in the front, which was separation where
    the Blockaelteste-- the Blockaelteste meant he
    was the chief of the barrack.
    And every such cabin had all the breadbox,
    where the bread was supplied, brought in, with a box,
    with a lock.
    And nobody could get to it.
    That door, the hinge of the box, was already torn off.
    And I was hiding in that box upside down.
    Here, he comes into search.
    He even kicks it.
    But luckily, it gave.
    He was so skinny, it gave.
    I could see the-- and I was sure that this is it.
    This is how I remained alive.
    But when they already left, the Germans, about an hour,
    they left, there was no sign of Germans.
    I wanted to go back to the barracks.
    But the Poles and the Ukraines who were not taken on the death
    march, they wouldn't let me.
    So I was hiding out in the heap of dead bodies.
    Because in the last week, when the crematoria
    didn't function at all, the bodies
    were just building up higher and higher.
    And I sneaked into among those dead bodies,
    because I was afraid they'd come back or something.
    So there I was at nighttime.
    In the daytime, I was roaming around in the camp.
    And this is where I actually survived.
    January 27th, I was one of the very first--
    Birkenau was one of the very first being liberated.
    This was why my survival chance.
    Tell me how support systems among inmates worked.
    Did people help each other?
    Did the young help the older people, or the older help
    the younger people?
    I can give you one particular incident that I
    have repeated many times.
    We were working in a Kommando.
    And three of us stuck together closer.
    And there was also another person who always said,
    that's it, which meant he was going to do something
    to commit suicide or getting into something to get killed.
    We would always encourage him.
    Of course, I was 17 and somebody who
    was 30 was already an old man.
    He was with very old.
    And we always used to tell him, don't, things are better,
    we heard the planes, we heard this.
    I mean, we always nurtured ourselves
    on some of these hopes as well.
    And, of course, the people there are more religious background.
    So we had hope God will help.
    Didn't give up so fast.
    And we said, listen, God will help, you will see,
    and so on, so on.
    This man just couldn't take it.
    Nobody could take it.
    But some had more strength than others.
    One day, after exhausted day, and especially hot day I
    think it was, we come back and his ration of bread
    was stolen or disappeared.
    He says, that's it.
    He wanted to get kind of our approval that.
    We did not let him die.
    We did not just feed him his words.
    The three of us each got a third of our meager little ration.
    What did it consist of?
    A piece of bread like a brick, which we know now
    was sawdust in it and everything.
    And we gave a third of that, a third of our lives,
    to this man, so he should not give up.
    As a matter of fact, to the best of my knowledge, he survived.
    So there was tremendous things, tremendous things.
    Like my own brother--
    I had very bad kidneys.
    And I was urinating almost anytime.
    It was known because my kidneys were cold.
    I don't know how he managed that,
    to cut it out of his little meager clothing from inside.
    And I had a kind of a blanket to warm my kidneys.
    OK, we have to reload.
    To celebrate any holidays, and yet
    how people managed to try to celebrate holidays in the camp.
    There was, in our camp, a pair of tefillin.
    Tefillin or phylacteries which a man over the age of 13
    puts on his right hand and on his head.
    I don't know how it ended up in the camp.
    I cannot imagine how it was possible to be smuggled
    in, unless it was dropped by helicopter.
    It defies my imagination, even at this point.
    And people-- A man's supposed to do
    that every day of the week, except for Saturdays
    are on Jewish holidays.
    And there were a few who were privy to the fact
    that there is a pair of tefillin in the camp.
    People literally risked their lives
    to maneuver to get to that tefillin.
    Because before roll call, which was 6:00 in the morning,
    nobody's supposed to be going anywhere else,
    but to the latrine, between barrack and latrine
    or between barrack and roll call.
    And here, this had to be accomplished before roll call.
    And it was really a tremendous task.
    Is was one of the mysteries, still
    the mysteries of how they got it from there
    and how people got there.
    In about 11 months, I succeeded to do that once
    with about 15 or 20 attempts other times.
    But then the signals were coming, no, stop it,
    you cannot, because there were suspicions that somebody might
    see or detect it.
    Because if they would have found out,
    it would have been killing hundreds of people,
    such a great defiance.
    And it was done.
    It was done a regular basis, but was assigned every day
    a few who could do that.
    And it was very tremendously risky to get to the spot
    and to put out that tefillin to say the prayers.
    And holidays, of course, there was the Hanukkah holiday,
    which had tremendous-- has tremendous memories.
    One was-- see, if ever anybody escaped the camp,
    it could have only been a Pole or a Ukraine.
    Because if he got out he--
    With the siren, we better stop.
    Let's cut for a minute.
    And we'll start with holidays again.
    Yeah.
    Only a Pole could or a Ukraine could escape, because first
    of all, they were our foreman.
    They were in good flesh.
    They didn't look like skeletons.
    And a Pole would take him in.
    We have found out later, after the war,
    that the guy who escaped already has gotten enough information
    from Jewish inmates to know where his family might
    have hidden something.
    So he was considered a millionaire.
    He knows where the treasures are hidden.
    And the Polish population would help him.
    And he was a Pole.
    He was one of them.
    But in a case like that, when a Pole would disappear,
    they would decimate either the group or the barracks
    where they came from.
    And in my own experience, once or twice,
    the rows in front of me were taken, or the row alongside me.
    So I was really rubbing with death along these lines
    as well.
    And it was just before Hanukkah, Hanukkah time.
    They have held back a few prisoners.
    Of course, there were very few Poles
    in the camps and very few Ukraines.
    And they were-- by the way, they Poles
    were worse than the Germans.
    They were really miserable.
    The Ukraines, horrible.
    And so, the Germans made a Hanukkah celebration.
    All the poles of the barracks, on the outside Poles,
    they hung up the prisoners were chosen to be one of the 10
    of the tents, on their feet, head down.
    We had to pour oil o them.
    And they had a bonfire.
    And we had to sing Christmas songs--
    Heilege Nacht.
    We had to sing the songs while our brothers, our fathers,
    our cousins were burning.
    That same night, which we had prepared before,
    a little bit of oil was sneaked from here and a little bit
    of oil from there.
    And of rags made out--
    forgive me, I'm completely confused--
    knots made out of it.
    And we were in small groups with lookout posts.
    Hundreds gathering to say the prayers
    and the blessing of Hanukkah, of the miracle of Hanukkah.
    We really did not give up.
    I mean, give up.
    Future, there was none, but we didn't give up.
    And it was unbelievable.
    But heroism we saw daily.
    I mean, I only know the little bit what
    I know in my little circle.
    But I heard other things.
    And my cousin told us things what
    happened in his camp, which was unbelievable,
    which was unbelievable.
    I mean, one incident, is going to go back to Birkenau.
    We were in Birkenau.
    We were a few nights in Birkenau.
    I don't remember whether it was the first night
    or the second night.
    We were told, by the way, everybody
    was told it will mean death.
    If you do this, it's death.
    If you do that, it's death.
    And the curfew was very clearly explained to us.
    And there was a metal drum cut in half
    where we had to take care of our needs if necessary.
    But the door was not to be opened.
    But I heard very tender little voices.
    In curiosity, I got to find out what's going on here.
    So I sneaked out of the barrack.
    And I go where I--
    led to me where I heard the voices.
    Thee were trenches, long trenches.
    And I saw that nurses--
    nurses you could only--
    whether they were German or even prisoners,
    had white uniform with a nice hood and a red cross on it.
    They're leading little children, toddlers, from two
    to maybe four years old, on a little march.
    And they were intrigued by the fire they saw in the trenches.
    When they came up to the end, these nurses or whoever
    they were, just pushed them in.
    And the kids were burning alive--
    those voices.
    I came back to the barrack.
    Fortunately, nobody saw me.
    And I told my brothers.
    The first reaction was--
    of course, it could be--
    there was my brother who had the 11-month-old baby.
    Though he could not have been here.
    But could be anybody.
    But this was not even that was the concern.
    The concern was, are you out of your mind?
    If you would have been detected, you would have been killed.
    So what have you accomplished?
    Now you know what it would have meant.
    And people must have--
    this was-- my case was heroic just to know what's going on.
    But other people did things.
    I mean, when I worked in the Kommando, the high chimney,
    this ceramic for this high chimney is very expensive.
    And some, to sabotage, broke, dropped pieces.
    They knew they were going to be killed.
    Just to stop their progression.
    Ironically enough, we went back three and a half years
    ago to Poland, to Birkenau.
    And we went to the camp that I was in, the coal mine,
    [PLACE NAME].
    It took the Pollacks about 30 years
    to build the third which we did not finish.
    And we did it in--
    we-- I mean, we Jewish labor, slave laborers,
    did it in two years.
    And of course, there were no pictures to be taken.
    We took a picture of it just out of curiosity
    to determine how much of it did we do and how much did they do.
    So they got the best workers.
    We did everything possible to sabotage, everything possible,
    at the risk of our lives.
    Because we figured if I have done something
    to hold back their progress, I am killed,
    but will do good for others.
    This happened on a daily basis, constantly,
    and in many different areas, many different areas.
    There were mechanics who are working on the German trucks
    and succeeded subfusion of oil or whatever it was.
    We heard the trucks blew up on the way somewhere.
    I was too young to have had such mechanical knowledge,
    but it constantly was done, thinks of defiance.
    But how much good it did, I don't know.
    We may run out.
    We should just reload.
    Changing film.
    Camera 06 is up.
    Take seven is up.
    OK.
    There was a very well-known, actually
    worldwide known great rabbi of Sienna,
    great rabbinic descendent.
    He was working-- we were working in the same Kommando,
    and he just uttered to me, oh, what he
    would be willing to give, sacrifice, if he would not have
    to desecrate the Yom Kippur.
    It was a wishful thing, like we wished
    we would have a cup full of coffee with sugar.
    And it didn't get lost on me.
    So I came back to the camp.
    And I approached the camp doctor.
    Dr. Erik Cohen with his name, also from Prague.
    And if you spoke the same language as the other person
    spoke, than you were kind of buddies.
    So I said, Dr. Erik--
    and everybody knew the old rabbi.
    He was not so very old, but to us, it was, anybody over 30
    was--
    40 was ancient.
    So I said, you know, Dr. Erik, if you could arrange
    that the old rabbi would not have to work Yom Kippur,
    you will come out alive from here.
    He was a very assimilated Jew.
    I never thought he would respond to that.
    But he says to me--
    if he would have kicked me in my pants,
    I would have expected that as well.
    So, he asked me, did the old rabbi tell you that?
    I didn't want to lie to him.
    So I said, no, but I tell you.
    In that matter, that you will enable him not
    to have to work Yom Kippur, you will come out alive.
    And again, there was no time of dilly-dally.
    There had to be everything done in seconds.
    Because you never knew when you're going to be interrupted.
    So he says, OK.
    That was like my getting into the infirmary before sent
    to Birkenau, was you took--
    there was exhausted oil which we brought back from the working
    Kommando-- officially, we could bring it
    back to the barracks to pour it on the barracks, on the floor,
    so that it doesn't dust, no mud.
    And this oil, we took a few spoons of that,
    we got diarrhea.
    And on diarrhea you could get into the infirmary.
    So he says, OK, but you have to go with him.
    And the procedure was already we knew what.
    We got him in into the infirmary.
    Me and he were assigned one bed.
    The bed was not any wider than 24 inches, maybe 26 inches.
    It was very narrow bed.
    And it was so stuffed that we were assigned
    one bed for the two of us.
    Here, this rabbi tried also to encourage others.
    And they shouldn't despair.
    He had said the Yom Kippur prayers,
    which are very long, very long.
    He knew them from the very beginning to the very end
    by heart.
    So the two ends of the blankets, we put on our heads.
    An authorized Jew is supposed to cover his head
    when he said the prayers.
    And we said the prayers.
    And he interrupted in the meantime
    to go over to others who were sick
    and who were really in bad shape.
    And he said prayers to them.
    He gave me a blessing.
    And he says, in the merits of having done this for him,
    God will help me.
    I will come out.
    And I said, rabbi, you will also with God's help come out.
    He did survive the war.
    The fact is that he could stay in the camp, in the infirmary,
    to say his prayers.
    I understood later that thousands in the camp
    felt good that he will be saying the prayers for everybody.
    I can't comprehend even today that how such faith
    can permeate in case like that.
    And it did.
    It did.
    There were other thing we did, which I--
    just I'm so emotionally involved in the moment,
    I cannot even think clear.
    So this is how I have spent Yom Kippur because of,
    an account of this man.
    And it was unbelievable.
    When the others asked me, in the camp-- can
    you imagine, with struggling.
    They said, how were the prayers?
    What did he say?
    How did he say?
    It was unbelievable, unbelievable.
    And he really, I think, and I strongly believe,
    he did it so that he should be able to pray
    for the welfare of others, for the welfare of others.
    And when I have uttered a bad word,
    may they drop dead or be killed, the Germans,
    he says, no, not killed, may they change their hearts.
    This is how he felt and he expressed himself.
    He didn't want anybody's unnecessary death.
    I'm trying to see if the plane is going to- Why don't we cut?
    You've talked about faith, and religious resistance,
    and mental resistance.
    Did you ever-- in the camps, were you
    ever able to find relief by joking with each other,
    by shoring up your spirits?
    Oh, yes, there was a lot of it.
    As a matter of fact, there was always--
    in any group, in any Kommando--
    Kommando means a working group--
    we had some who were telling jokes
    so that we should feel better.
    And quoting of the prophet.
    As a matter of fact, there were some assimilated Jews who
    came from some parts of Europe, they
    did not even know that there were
    such great philosophical teaching
    existing in Jewish learnings.
    And we were joking about hunger.
    We were joking about hard work.
    And I remember we were working at the coal mine.
    There was a civilian worker.
    He says, you know, we told the Jews they will be mining coals.
    And the Jews said, you don't want that.
    Then you would have to pay twice as much for your coal.
    And there were all kind of jokes cracked.
    But they were more of the serious nature of jokes.
    But I was amazed at how many quotes of the prophets
    were given.
    That one in particular, they say that--
    the quoted in the holy temple, the jackal came in,
    and the prophet laughs.
    The jackal comes in defaming the holy temple.
    He says, I'm laughing because he says when after this happens,
    then the temple will be purified.
    And then the whole people will be purified.
    And things like that.
    And it was amazing.
    Those who had knowledge had always something good to say.
    Show you here an example.
    We had two couples, two German guys,
    which were the most notorious robbers in German history.
    They were such famous robbers, they
    have, from what we understood, built
    a tunnel in the heart of Berlin to the central bank.
    And it was built, officially, by the people
    thought it was the telephone companies wiring build.
    Of course, these guys were apprehended.
    They ended up in jail.
    I don't know how many years they got.
    These guys, of course, as all other criminals,
    were taken out of jails and made Kapos in the camps.
    But these were two very brilliant guys.
    And they saw in me and my brother
    that we come from well-to-do homes.
    So, they pumped up us.
    And they did it very--
    the best shrink would not get things out of you
    as well as they did.
    And we caught onto that.
    So my brother prepared me how the answer should be.
    Because he said, they will ask you 20 times
    over again and again.
    So we have to have a very clear cut story.
    And to give this to them.
    And stick to that.
    Their plans were that if the one in the war wins--
    they knew that they were going to survive
    because they were infallible.
    They were going to survive.
    And our chances to survive were zero in their eyes.
    And they were going to go back to our home town
    and they will dig out whatever, the gigantic treasures.
    Because Jews were known in Germany to be
    multimillionaires.
    So every Jew must have had two big boxes of gold and diamonds.
    So when this worked, and these guys became good friends,
    they've actually made quite a bit
    of effort to be lenient towards--
    I mean, they hit everybody, but they hit us, did not hit us,
    or we had maybe easier little jobs.
    So we have spread this on to others,
    say, listen, if you have intelligent Kapos,
    let them know that they have a chance to survive,
    or that you will lead them to it.
    Like my brother said, listen, and if should you not--
    should Germany not win the war, we will protect you.
    We will be here vouching for your good behavior
    and for your humane behavior.
    We have to reload.
    Beverly Hills, California.
    Continuing interview with Bart Stern.
    Can you back up just a little bit with the Kapos
    and tell me what you and your brother--
    did you make up a story to tell them?
    Yeah.
    No, actually, there were some facts in it,
    but to make it a little bit more interesting for them,
    we embellished upon it.
    And we have given instead of our location,
    we gave two other locations.
    Because we were hoping that we will survive,
    and we didn't want them to be able to get there first.
    So we have confused them a little bit, in case
    if they would have been able to come.
    But our aim was not only that we benefit by this approach,
    but we have saw that others also got onto that point
    that there are--
    that Kapos can be bribed, really.
    Telling them, listen, if you win, you know where you go back
    and you will get it.
    Be nice to us.
    If you lose, we will be helping you.
    And this was something that my brother
    has masterminded and saw to that that it
    had spread to others too.
    And though he became--
    matter of fact, when there was a group transferred
    to another camp, and when my brothers ran immediately
    to that group of settlers and make hay out of this here.
    This is something which can work.
    And they became-- have used every little bit of it
    at every opportunity there was to make it a survival
    possibility, not only for ourselves.
    The amazing thing is that we were really like blind horses,
    pulled right, and right, left, left.
    But within our subconscious mind,
    we had also a very conscious mind.
    And we have put it to as good use as we possibly could.
    I mean, just the same, the will of survival
    itself was a tremendous, tremendous effort.
    You know, like, there were suicides in the camps.
    But it was never religious Jews committed suicide.
    Even the most primitive Polish people,
    I mean, if you read some of the book of Isaac Bashevis Singer,
    in Poland with such a poverty that Haarlem is a paradise.
    And they had never went to school, just to Hebrew school.
    But they had the face.
    The suicides were always by the assimilated,
    who were the philosophical.
    Because they did not see any reason in further survival,
    because there was really not too much of a chance.
    But we have always aimed to survival and never to give up.
    I mean, to give up was the easiest thing.
    I mean, if you just sat down, like the men
    with the story who lost his bread, we did not.
    We were going on with a great belief that we will survive.
    And there is a morning prayer that we
    say that I believe in the coming of the Messiah.
    And people have, tell this, I am believe that with God's help
    I will be surviving the camp and I will take revenge on them.
    This was strong driving force, even if it didn't
    come from everybody himself.
    It was fed to him by others, always with encouragement
    given.
    Everybody felt itself an encouragement.
    Of course, I can't imagine that.
    I don't remember what I did.
    I said, OK, stop it.
    I've already heard it.
    I mean, because the labor was very hard.
    The conditions were inhuman.
    If I would be able to describe it, I mean,
    if I would have a better vocabulary
    and I would have the greatest writers,
    I couldn't give you the complete happening over five minute.
    I would go berserk myself.
    It was beyond comprehension of anybody,
    beyond comprehension of anybody.
    It was so out of the extraordinary that one cannot
    comprehend it.
    But whatever we have had, it was nurtured by our belief
    and by the encouragement of others.
    I mean, like the rabbi survived and having Yom Kippur,
    that he was considered that he was
    our messenger to the Almighty.
    And these are the things which gave us strength to survive.
    Is survival an achievement?
    It's a rhetorical question really.
    Yes, survival is an achievement, yes.
    We wanted to achieve survival.
    How does your whole experience make you feel about humanity.
    Humanity is very frail, very materialistic.
    We see that then and today.
    We need territories.
    We need more wealth.
    Presidents need more votes.
    Politicians need more votes.
    And this is unfortunately human nature, I mean, humanity.
    I still believe that the best people in the world
    are in America.
    Before I came to this country, I traveled
    to many other countries.
    But I was a student, I had an opportunity
    to go for study tours.
    I won scholarships.
    And we are the best people.
    Are we?
    Depends to whom are we comparing ourselves.
    So humanity-- and I'm not the best person either.
    I see people who are much more superior to me.
    So I'm really not qualified to give a good answer.
    Tell me about how you feel about taking revenge.
    And were you able to at all?
    Yes, I took revenge.
    The only thing happened when we were liberated
    by the Russians, a few days--
    I mean, I was fortunate to be accepted by the Russians.
    I mean, I only weighed 84 pounds.
    I was a walking skeleton.
    But they did not accept us as survivors
    because the Germans have even put up the skeletons
    as saboteurs with the Russians.
    So they-- I don't know what experiences they had, but I
    was very strongly interrogated.
    But to my good fortune, they were
    the Jewish-Russian general.
    And I have given him proof that I'm Jewish.
    So I was accepted, actually.
    The greatest thing he could do for me,
    the uniform of a dead soldier was taken off and given me
    a part of it.
    Three days or so having-- and I was
    kind of a expensive property for them because I could read maps.
    I could interpret maps.
    And I was not a great strategist.
    But I knew there is north, south, east,
    west, and northwest, northeast.
    So I was going on with the Russians.
    They needed me like a hole in their head.
    They didn't have themselves anything.
    And I couldn't walk.
    I had to be on a horse-drawn wagon, seated with others.
    We came into a small community not far from Auschwitz,
    and noontime for the rest.
    And there were small narrow streets
    so we leaned onto the walls of the houses outside
    to take a rest, and have something to eat.
    It was sunshine.
    Matter of fact, I remember I had to sit
    on something because the snow was melting away.
    Here after about 5, 10 minutes, we were, well,
    sitting on our floor.
    Suddenly there was hailing of hot lead, rocks, even axes
    from the rooftops.
    They were not very high houses.
    So the population has attacked us.
    And they were also submachine guns.
    And a few people were killed.
    So I was, with another survivor with me, a Polish fellow,
    he probably was 10, 15 years old than me, a seasoned man.
    He was in the camps in the first week on.
    And the Russian soldiers were somehow surprised
    in a captured village, this to happen.
    But he was not.
    So we went into the next house across the street.
    Here we see there was--
    that they took off, middle of lunch.
    The soup was still warm.
    And we don't find them.
    He goes down to the basement.
    See, the basement is short.
    He sends out somebody else to measure out
    the length of the house.
    So we saw that the basement was cut about half.
    And there was straw at the end.
    Pulled out the straw.
    There he found a family.
    Of course, we had to shoot them because they all
    had ammunition.
    And this has been a very bad scene.
    I am-- to kill was terrible.
    So from then on, every uniformed Pole or German--
    we came across mostly Germans.
    This was Monday.
    We shot them as much as we could.
    I just want you to back up and tell me about taking revenge
    and how you feel about it.
    I get asked the question whether I have
    any hatred toward the Germans.
    Hatred is not something I'm going
    to accomplish anything with.
    And what does it matter to the German?
    They take comfort, and probably enjoys
    the spoil of Jewish properties, that I'm hating him.
    I'm going to destroy myself.
    Nothing to them.
    But I am more rational about it.
    I will not buy German goods.
    I will not go vacation in Germany.
    I will not sponsor their events.
    That's what I will, as far as my not compensating the Germans
    or not helping them.
    But hate, what do I accomplish by that?
    What do I accomplish by that?
    If I could say that America produces a better car,
    then I would surely go out and tell everybody to buy it.
    I mean, even now, I tell people, aren't you ashamed
    your father was killed in Auschwitz and you,
    or whoever it is, and you buy a Mercedes.
    Why don't you buy an American car?
    I, to that extent, yes.
    People say they go to vacation in Germany.
    I said, have you vacationed in America?
    Do you know how many nice scenes there are here?
    To that extent, but I don't hate.
    I don't carry on a grudge.
    No.
    And I tell you something very foolish on my part.
    I didn't even claim for years any restitution
    that I'm entitled to.
    I'm a 65% invalid.
    But then finally, I did because I figured,
    what am I going to do?
    Am I going to defy them?
    They will get the profit of it.
    Today I'm getting a very big pension, about $300 a month.
    Of course, the Nazis as you know,
    get considerably bigger pensions.
    But hatred, I do not--
    I do not hate, no.
    They cannot count on me being their public relations person,
    no.
    What would you say for those who didn't survive?
    I know that they have probably have tried more--
    as much as me or more, for them.
    The only thing I can say for them is what I do every day.
    I say the Memorial Prayer for them,
    just like they would be my father or brother or sister
    or mother.
    That's what I would do say for them.
    And another thing what I do say, that we don't
    have to cave in for anything.
    We have to be alert.
    We have to watch out.
    Whether it's a Mezger or a Buchanan,
    we don't sit there and say, don't rock the boat.
    We have to rock the boat.
    And not only for us Jews sake alone,
    for the rest of the world.
    We cannot let these things occur again.
    Unless we know it, remember it, and tell it to others,
    it is bound to happen again.
    People say that Jews went like sheep to the slaughter.
    How do you feel about that?
    That is utterly ridiculous to say that.
    You know, when-- first of all, nobody
    ever believed this to be possible.
    Look, American people, even today--
    I'm not talking of the revisionists who say that--
    but the good thinking American people It couldn't be possible.
    Just the fact to accept it, it is a big order,
    to live with that.
    They did not go [INAUDIBLE].
    We were not trained to kill, true.
    Would we have had some leadership who
    would have made this more plausible to tell us,
    we would have acted differently, It's always hindsight.
    But we didn't go with--
    you have no idea what resistance there was, even in the ghettos.
    I mean, I remember in our own town, some of the gendarmerie
    were attacked.
    But what good was it?
    They outnumbered us by the thousands.
    It was not only the uniformed.
    Unfortunately, the population as well.
    The people who lived next door who
    have profited by living with us, and been friends just
    for that little bit of whatever the Jews still had,
    they were happy to have him being deported.
    So we were outnumbered one to thousands.
    That was really very little we could do.
    And even so, some of the ghettos,
    when they came to radio stations,
    they threw Molotov cocktails.
    This was sure that.
    I mean, sheep--
    I mean, I heard that.
    And I have said it before, I was in Vietnam in '60.
    Our ambassador, Mr. Nolte, I don't
    know how he became ambassador.
    Although he tells me, he asked me, he says,
    how come that you were herded as sheep,
    let yourself being herded as sheep in the cattle
    carts to being flushed out.
    So I asked him, I said, how come?
    America, with all its mighty power,
    American soldiers are killed every day.
    What are you doing?
    He said, I never thought about it that way.
    I think we were much more courageous with no means
    than any other people would be.
    But we are not.
    But the fact is that we really did not have any ammunition.
    Nobody behind us.
    Even when you know about the case of partisan,
    the partisans themselves, the Jewish partisans that they
    destroyed, they wanted to take the credit for it.
    And so therefore, with what we did not have,
    we did more than people who have with what to do it.
    So that is a very, very wrong concept
    and nobody should think along those lines.
    Because it's really to defame the atrocities what took place.
    I don't think so.
    We can't even use that word.
    I know it has it's use by fine people.
    When we went back to our hometown,
    3 and 1/2 years ago, the people said,
    why didn't you burn down the city?
    They wouldn't have known.
    I told them, I said, what would you have done?
    These were boys my age, non-Jewish boys
    from my hometown.
    I said, what would you have done?
    I said that you came back from the churches, Sunday
    always, with great hatred, as though best thing you could do,
    even the good days, is break the Jewish home windows.
    You know, it's nice to say that, but I
    asked him what would you have done if it would
    have been the opposite way.
    And you know what his answer was?
    I have a penknife in my pocket.
    You see this?
    It is 50 years old.
    And what would you have done with it?
    I don't think so that any of the writers,
    or anybody who said that is even aware of it, what he says.
    OK, thank you very much.

    Overview

    Interview Summary
    Bart Stern discusses his experiences on a cattle car transport from Hungary to Birkenau concentration camp with his brothers; his subsequent move to Auschwitz concentration camp; his time working in a coal mine near Auschwitz; how religious celebrations became a form of resistance in Auschwitz; how he and other prisoners told jokes as a way of coping; his experiences with Kapos in Auschwitz; his thoughts on humanity in light of his Holocaust experiences; his thoughts on revenge; and how many Jews resisted and did not go willingly to their deaths.
    Interviewee
    Bart Stern
    Interviewer
    Sandra Bradley
    Date
    interview:  1992 March 08

    Physical Details

    Language
    English
    Extent
    3 film reels : color ; 16 mm.
    4 sound tape reels : analog, mono ; 7 in..
    2 videocassette (D2) : sound, color ; 3/4 in..

    Rights & Restrictions

    Conditions on Access
    There are no known restrictions on access to this material.
    Conditions on Use
    No restrictions on use

    Keywords & Subjects

    Personal Name
    Stern, Bart.

    Administrative Notes

    Legal Status
    Permanent Collection
    Provenance
    Sandra Bradley, a film production consultant for the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, conducted the interview with Bart Stern on March 8, 1992, in Beverly Hills, California, in preparation for the making of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum exhibition film, "Testimony." United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Oral History branch received the films and tapes of the interview in August 1994. United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Archives received the films and tapes of the interview via transfer from the Oral History branch in February 1995.
    Funding Note
    The cataloging of this oral history interview has been supported by a grant from the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany.
    Record last modified:
    2023-11-16 08:08:48
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    Time Coded Notes (3)

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    Also in Testimony oral history collection

    Contains oral histories interviews with 32 Holocaust survivors from the United States

    Date: 1992

    Oral history interview with Gerda Weissmann Klein

    Oral history interview with Gerda Weissmann Klein

    Oral History

    Gerda Weissmann Klein discusses her memories of the German invasion of Poland; her time in the Bielsko ghetto; her deportation to a transit camp in Sosnowiec, Poland; her time working in slave labor as a weaver and loom operator; her friendship with Susie Kuhn and the bet they made together while on board a transport train on their way to Bolkenhain concentration camp; her memories of Frau Kligler, a guard in Bolkenhain; how she and a friend wrote and performed a play in their barrack at Bolkenhain; her memories of crafting a menorah from potatoes and celebration of the Jewish holidays in the camp; how she used her imagination as a defense against her captors; her move from Bolkenhain to Maerzdorf concentration camp where she worked harvesting flax from a swamp for linen production; how she celebrated her 18 birthday; her experiences on a death march through Germany; the death of her friend Susie Kuhn, shortly before liberation; and her memories of her liberation by American troops at a camp near Volary, Czechoslovakia.

    Oral history interview with Agnes Mandl Adachi

    Oral history interview with Agnes Mandl Adachi

    Oral History

    Agnes Mandl Adachi discusses her time spent in Switzerland shortly before the start of World War II; her memories of the takeover by the Arrow Cross Party (Nyilaskeresztes Párt); how she obtained Swedish citizenship through the Swedish embassy in Budapest; the mistreatment of mixed-marriage couples in Hungary, and how many committed suicide instead of divorcing; her baptism by the Protestant Bishop of Hungary; her work with Raoul Wallenberg and his many heroic efforts to rescue Hungarian Jews, his work with children and orphans in Budapest, and his successful attempt to persuade Adolf Eichmann to call off a massacre of 70,000 Jews in the Budapest ghetto; Wallenberg's disappearance in 1945 and subsequent searches for him in Russia; her reflections on the honors given to Raoul Wallenberg since World War II; and her personal thoughts on her role as a rescuer working with Wallenberg.

    Oral history interview with Edward Adler

    Oral history interview with Edward Adler

    Oral History

    Edward Adler, born in 1910, discusses his memories of the early days of the Nazi Party in Germany in the 1930s and his involvement in anti-Nazi activities in Hamburg, Germany; his memories of anti-Jewish boycotts; his memories of joining a military training camp and one experience when he was assigned to a guard detail for Adolf Hitler; his discharge from the military camp when it was discovered that he was Jewish; his arrest by the Gestapo for having a relationship with a Gentile girl; his imprisonment in Oranienburg concentration camp from June 1938 and his release from the camp the following September; his memories of Kristallnacht in Hamburg, Germany in 1938; his flight to the Netherlands with his family shortly after Kristallnacht and their subsequent immigration to the United States; his reflections on how Jews were unable to "fight back" and defend themselves against the Nazis; his memories of antisemitism in Germany in the 1930s; his recollections of the fate of his parents during the Holocaust and how his mother died in Treblinka concentration camp; and his memories of a visit to Hamburg, Germany in 1982 and the emotions he experienced during his stay there.

    Oral history interview with Harry Alexander

    Oral history interview with Harry Alexander

    Oral History

    Harry Alexander discusses his memories of persecutions suffered by Jews in his hometown of Leipzig, Germany, and the events of Kristallnacht in 1938; his flight to Milan, Italy after Kristallnacht and his experiences there with other Jewish refugees; his memories of receiving a one-day visa through the French embassy in Milan and his attempt to escape to France by train; his memories of the "St. Vemo incident" when fisherman from the village of San Remo, Italy attempted to ferry the refugees around a blockade that stopped the train he was on from entering France; his arrest in France and time in prison; his time in Antibes concentration camp in France, and later in a Marseille prison; his escape from a transport between concentration camps; hiding in a forest and his arrest there; being in Di Agilis concentration camp and his transport from there to "Jaffa" (Djelfa) concentration camp in Algeria, where he and other prisoners worked to build a railroad passage across the Sahara Desert; the types of torture in Djelfa; his memories of the various acts of defiance by prisoners in Djelfa and the role that humor played in surviving the camp; his liberation from Djelfa by British troops and his time in British military intelligence after liberation; his reflections on the cruelty of camp and prison guards that he encountered; the role that his mother played in his survival; the loss of his entire family in the concentration camps; his thoughts on survival as a form of heroism; and his thoughts on why more Jews didn't "fight back" and defend themselves against the Nazis.

    Oral history interview with Sam Bankhalter

    Oral history interview with Sam Bankhalter

    Oral History

    Sam Bankhalter discusses his memories of antisemitism in Poland in the 1930s and the activities of "Endeks" or Polish Nazis; the various types of persecutions suffered by Jews in Poland; the German invasion of Poland in 1939; his time living in the ghetto in Łódź, Poland; his transport to Auschwitz in 1940 where he participated in the construction of the camp; his recollections of various aspects at Auschwitz including the gas chambers, the crematoria, and selections by Josef Mengele and other doctors in the camp; the mistreatment of rabbis and priests in Auschwitz; the gassing of Romanies infected with typhus; the suicide of his brother, Chaim, and his own attempt at suicide; his memories of the arrival of his parents and sister in Auschwitz in 1944 and seeing them just before they went to the gas chambers; his death march from Auschwitz through Germany to Buchenwald concentration camp; his thoughts on the systematic nature of extermination in Auschwitz; the massacre of many camp prisoners at Buchenwald shortly before liberation; his thoughts on Holocaust survival as a type of heroism; his thoughts on humor as a way of coping in the concentration camp; his memories of the Sonderkommandos in the ghettos and in Auschwitz; and his time working in the crematoria at Auschwitz.

    Oral history interview with Frank Blaichman

    Oral history interview with Frank Blaichman

    Oral History

    Frank Blaichman discusses his memories of hard labor and various persecutions suffered by Jews when Germany invaded Poland at the beginning of World War II; his time in a ghetto in Poland; his escape to and time in hiding in a forest in Poland; his involvement with a group of Jewish partisan fighters in the forests of Poland where he was a key figure in acquiring firearms and organizing acts of sabotage against the Germans; avoiding capture by Germans and Polish collaborators; his memories of a visit by General Rolojemerski, head of the Polish Partisan Support; and his reflections on the choices Jews faced during the Holocaust and how those choices impacted survival.

    Oral history interview with Shony Braun

    Oral history interview with Shony Braun

    Oral History

    Shony Braun discusses his transport by train to Auschwitz concentration camp and his encounter with camp doctor, Josef Mengele, during a selection; the death of his mother and younger sister, Golda, in the gas chamber at Auschwitz; his selection to work on a Sonderkommando; his transport to a camp in France with his father and his brother, Zolton, where they worked in an ammunition factory and his work to sabotage bullets in the factory by mixing sand with gun powder; his transfer to Kochendorf concentration camp, a subcamp of Natzweiller concentration camp in France, where he labored in a salt mine; the death of his father in Kochendorf after a severe beating from SS guards and Kapos; his transport to Dachau concentration camp; volunteering to play the violin for camp personnel in exchange for food; how he was shot in the chest during the confusion of Dachau's liberation; how mental and spiritual strength played a role in his survival; his thoughts on his acts of sabotage as a form of heroism; and his "Symphony of the Holocaust," and how composing it helped him cope while in the camp.

    Oral history interview with Leo Bretholz

    Oral history interview with Leo Bretholz

    Oral History

    Leo Bretholz discusses the underground resistance movement in France and its two parts, the Forces Françaises de l'intérieur (FFI) and the Francs-tireurs et partisans français (FTPF); his involvement in the Armee Juive; his various arrests and escapes from prison during his time in the Jewish resistance movement in France; his use of false identification documents to avoid deportation; his time in Rivesaltes concentration camp; his time in hiding in various locations including the attic of a cousin's home; his reflections on being transported by cattle car and the horrors endured by people on the transport; his memories of the Anschluss in Austria in 1938; his witness to the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre in June 1944; his memories of Kristallnacht in 1938; and the fate of his immediate family during the Holocaust.

    Oral history interview with Chaim Engel

    Oral history interview with Chaim Engel

    Oral History

    Chaim Engel discusses his transport by train to Sobibór concentration camp; his time on a work detail to sort the clothing of gassed prisoners in Sobibór; his job cutting the hair of female prisoners in Sobibór before gassing; his thoughts on the differences between concentration camps and death camps; his experiences with the extreme cruelty of the Sobibór guards; his acts of sabotage while on the clothes sorting work detail; the massacre of an entire transport of prisoners from Belzec concentration camp; his participation in the murder of a German Kapo; the prisoner revolt in Sobibór in October 1943; his escape after the prisoner revolt and his time in hiding with other Sobibór escapees; his relationship with his girlfriend, Selma Engel, also a prisoner from Sobibór, and their time in hiding on the farm of a Polish farmer; his thoughts on the choices made by Jews in order to survive during the Holocaust; and his thoughts on heroism as part of the prisoner revolt in Sobibór.

    Oral history interview with Selma Engel

    Oral history interview with Selma Engel

    Oral History

    Selma Engel discusses her arrival in Westerbork concentration camp; her transport from Westerbork to Sobibór concentration camp; her participation in a work detail sorting the clothing of gassed prisoners in Sobibór; her first meeting with her future husband, Chaim Engel; her recollections of the three separate camp areas in Sobibór; the mistreatment of Dutch prisoners in Sobibór; the extreme cruelty of the SS guards in Sobibór; her acts of sabotage while sorting the clothing of the gassed prisoners; the prisoner revolt in Sobibór in Oct. 1943; her escape from Sobibór during the prisoner revolt; her time in hiding with Chaim Engel, her future husband, on the farm of a Polish farmer; her reliance on Chaim for survival; and her reflections on the German and Ukrainian guards in Sobibór and the choices they made to be cruel to the prisoners there.

    Oral history interview with Paulette Fink

    Oral history interview with Paulette Fink

    Oral History

    Paulette Fink discusses her involvement in the resistance movement in France during World War II and her sabotage activities; the French Jewish Scout movement in France (Eclaireurs de France); the saving of many Jewish children by a French Huegenot pastor and other citizens in the town of La Chambon-sur-Lignon, France; the amount of risk and fear that she lived with during World War II; getting fake ID cards made; her marriage in 1934 and the death of her husband, a member of the French resistance, in 1944; her thoughts on her resistance activity as a form of heroism; her involvement in the illegal immigration of thousands of Jewish displaced persons to Israel after World War II; and her continued dedication to and support of the State of Israel since World War II.

    Oral history interview with Sam Goldberg

    Oral history interview with Sam Goldberg

    Oral History

    Sam Goldberg discusses his use of the false name Sigmund Kamkowsky in order to avoid persecution; his time working with the underground movement in and around Warsaw, Poland; his time living and working in the Warsaw ghetto; his escape from the Warsaw ghetto to the Pietkov ghetto in order to locate family members; his acts of smuggling and encounters with the SS; the liquidation of the Warsaw ghetto and his subsequent transport by train to Birkenau concentration camp and his eventual move to Auschwitz; hearing about Josef Mengele's medical experiments in Auschwitz; working in the "Canada" commando, sorting the clothing and valuables of prisoners near the gas chambers in Auschwitz; working in the commando assisting prisoners upon arrival at the Auschwitz train platform; his experiences with Kapos and Blockälteste in Auschwitz; the prisoner revolt in the Auschwitz crematoria in October 1944; his evacuation from Auschwitz by train; his participation on a death march; his friendship with a young boy named Herbie; his time in Flossenbürg concentration camp after a death march and his memories of the various colored triangle badges he saw there; his transport to Mittendorf concentration camp near Munich, Germany via Prague, Czech Republic; his experiences during Allied bombing raids on Mittendorf; his memories of the liquidation of the Romani camp in Auschwitz; his acts of sabotage while working on airplanes; his thoughts on spiritual resistance; his liberation by American troops during a transport; how telling jokes and singing songs helped to lift the spirits of fellow camp inmates; his memories of the meeting between Josef Mengele and Chaim Rumkowski, head of the ghetto in Łódź, Poland upon Rumkowski's arrival in Auschwitz; his thoughts on the choice of German Kapos and soldiers to be killers; his reflections on the nature of humanity considering his Holocaust experiences; and the selection process that took place upon the arrival of new transports in Auschwitz.

    Oral history interview with Siegfried Halbreich

    Oral history interview with Siegfried Halbreich

    Oral History

    Siegfried Halbreich discusses his desertion from the Polish Army in October 1939 and his brief time working as a pharmacist in Oświęcim, Poland; his imprisonment in Sachsenhausen concentration camp and the cruel treatment of prisoners that he witnessed there; his time in Gross-Rosen concentration camp and his work in a stone quarry near the camp; his experiences with Blockälteste in Gross-Rosen; his time in Auschwitz concentration camp and his work as a nurse in the camp hospital; his role as Blockälteste at one time in Auschwitz; his participation in a death march after the evacuation of Auschwitz; the camp personnel hierarchy in Auschwitz from the SS guards down to the Kapos; his thoughts on the role of mental resistance as a part of survival; the support he received from friends and family while in the concentration camps; his memories of religious practice and celebration in Sachsenhausen; his role as teacher and leader of young Jews for religious education in Auschwitz; the various types of torture he witnessed in Sachsenhausen; and his thoughts on taking revenge on Germans after liberation.

    Oral history interview with Isadore Helfing

    Oral history interview with Isadore Helfing

    Oral History

    Isadore Helfing discusses his arrival in Treblinka concentration camp and his work burying the bodies of persons who died during the transports in mass graves in the camp; his recollections of the physical layout of Treblinka and how prisoners were led through the gassing process; his recollections of many people dying inside the railroad cars while waiting to unload in Treblinka; his experiences with Kapos in the camp; his participation in the prisoner revolt in Treblinka and his escape to a nearby forest; his time in hiding after his escape from Treblinka; his witnessing the murder of a German camp guard by a fellow prisoner and his thoughts on the murder as an act of revenge; how German and Ukrainian guards in the camp made choices to follow orders; the attempts of some prisoners to pray in the camp; participating in soccer games on Sundays, a free day in the camp; the suicides of several persons from his barracks; the orchestra in the camp and a boxing match that took place one day; and the fate of his parents in Treblinka the day before his arrival in the camp.

    Oral history interview with Kurt Klein

    Oral history interview with Kurt Klein

    Oral History

    Kurt Klein discusses the political situation in Germany during the early 1930s and how Jews did not take the Nazi rise to power seriously; his thoughts on why the Nazi party gained power so easily; the persecutions suffered by Jews and the boycott against Jewish businesses in the early 1930s; his withdrawal from school and his apprenticeship in the printing business; his immigration to the United States in 1937; how he learned of Kristallnacht events through newspaper reports in the United States; his service with the Fifth US Infantry Division of the Third Army during World War II and his assistance to Jewish women abandoned by their German guards in a factory building in Volary, Czechoslovakia; his first meeting with his future wife, Gerda Weissmann Klein, in the factory and the development of their relationship after World War II; and his participation in the interrogation of Erich Kempka, a former chauffeur for Adolf Hitler.

    Oral history interview with John Komski

    Oral history interview with John Komski

    Oral History

    John (Jan) Komski discusses the German invasion of Poland; his involvement in the resistance movement in and around Kraków, Poland; his imprisonment at Auschwitz concentration camp in June 1940; the different types of prisoners in Auschwitz and the various identification badges and triangles used to mark the prisoners; the museum and orchestra in Auschwitz; how he planned and prepared a successful escape from Auschwitz by disguising himself as an SS guard and using false identification documents; the types of mental and spiritual resistance used to survive in Auschwitz; his thoughts on how some Auschwitz prisoners utilized special talents and skills to survive in the camp; the gassing of children and their mothers immediately upon arrival in Auschwitz; his memories of Palietsch, the official executor in Auschwitz; the tattoos used to identify prisoners in Auschwitz and the tattoo he received when he entered Birkenau concentration camp; and how families were treated differently from individuals upon arrival in Auschwitz.

    Oral history interview with Stefa Kupfer

    Oral history interview with Stefa Kupfer

    Oral History

    Stefa Kupfer discusses the German invasion of Poland in 1939 and the persecutions suffered by Jews during the German occupation; being 10 years old when the war started; her memories of the Gestapo and their dogs; how the Germans used citizens from her town for forced labor; the confiscation of Jewish property by the Germans; her mother's refusal to register the family with the German authorities, thereby saving them from a round up; her family's time in hiding in the attic and basement of an apartment building in Krosno, Poland, and how she and her family were protected and ultimately saved by Penny Olefska, a Christian woman; the various ways she and her family occupied themselves while in hiding; her thoughts on living in constant fear while in hiding; the assistance her family received from Mr. Vishbitsky, a Polish farmer; her thoughts on those who risked their lives to rescue and hide Jews during World War II; her recollections of the many possessions she and her family lost during the war; and the responsibility of each Holocaust survivor to tell his or her story in order prevent another Holocaust.

    Oral history interview with Cecilie Klein-Pollack

    Oral history interview with Cecilie Klein-Pollack

    Oral History

    Cecilie Klein-Pollack discusses the deportation of her family from the ghetto in Hust, Hungary (now Khust, Ukraine) to Auschwitz concentration camp; her and her family's experiences upon arrival at Auschwitz, encountering Josef Mengele, and the death of her mother and young nephew in the gas chambers shortly thereafter; her experiences with Kapos and Blockälteste in Auschwitz and Birkenau; her sister's desire to commit suicide and her attempts to keep her sister alive; her memories of a young ballerina in her block who was forced to dance for the SS camp guards; her witness to the beating death of the ballerina and a poem that she wrote to memorialize the young dancer; her many delousing experiences in Auschwitz and Birkenau; her transport to Nuremberg where she and other female prisoners worked in a munitions factory; her time in Holleischen concentration camp in Czechoslovakia; the types of spiritual and religious resistance that she experienced in the camps; the cruel beatings that she and other prisoners received from SS guards in the camps; her time in Budapest, Hungary after World War II; and her memories of her mother as she was before her death in the Auschwitz gas chamber. During the interview, Cecilie Klein-Pollack recites her poem, "Ballerina," and reads a letter she wrote to her mother (a copy of the letter is located in the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Archives).

    Oral history interview with Abraham Malnik

    Oral history interview with Abraham Malnik

    Oral History

    Abraham Malnik discusses the German invasion of Lithuania; his family's life in the Kovno ghetto; how his father, Josef Malnik, rescued him and his mother from a selection of elderly, children, and handicapped persons, thereby saving them from the massacre at the Ninth Fort near the ghetto in Kovno (Kaunas), Lithuania; his time hiding in a cellar in the Kovno ghetto to avoid capture during a "Kinder aktion" by the Germans; the liquidation of the Kovno ghetto during which many of the remaining Jews were massacred by Lithuanian collaborators; his family's transport to Stutthof concentration camp and subsequently to Dachau, Flossenbürg, and Leitmeritz (Litomerice) concentration camps; how he and his father participated in forced labor in a mine in Leitmeritz; the yellow star and number insignia the Germans assigned to him in Leitmeritz; his experience with Polish Kapos in Leitmeritz; his time spent in the Leitmeritz hospital with typhoid fever; his "walk" to Theresienstadt concentration camp in April 1945 and his liberation there by the Soviet Army; his thoughts on taking revenge against the Germans for their brutality during the Holocaust; and the special bond he and his father shared throughout their Holocaust ordeal.

    Oral history interview with Lilly Appelbaum Malnik

    Oral history interview with Lilly Appelbaum Malnik

    Oral History

    Lilly Appelbaum Malnik discusses her time in hiding in Belgium; her forced labor in a factory; her neighbors in her apartment building who denounced her and her aunt and uncle to the Germans; her family's arrest and their time in the Malines detention camp in Mechelen, Belgium; her family's transport from Belgium to Birkenau concentration camp and her encounter with Josef Mengele upon arrival; the tattoo number she received on her arm; volunteering for work in Birkenau; her transfer to Auschwitz concentration camp and her work in the kitchen there; the transports of new prisoners into Auschwitz and how many prisoners were sent immediately to the gas chambers; contemplating suicide while in Auschwitz; how some prisoners in Auschwitz prayed as a form of resistance; her time on a death march from Auschwitz to Bergen-Belsen concentration camp; her friendship with a young girl named Christian while in Bergen-Belsen; Christian’s death from typhus; and her thoughts about how the young had a better chance of survival in concentration camps.

    Oral history interview with Ludmilla Page

    Oral history interview with Ludmilla Page

    Oral History

    Ludmilla Page discusses being arrested with her mother and members of the Polish intelligentsia in November 1939; their transport to Kraków, Poland, where they spent time in a fortress prison; her thoughts on the similarities and differences between the Kraków and Warsaw ghettos; her relationship with Oskar Schindler and how he protected the Jews working in his factory; how Schindler compiled his list of names of prisoners from the Płaszów concentration camp; Schindler’s attempt to persuade a fellow factory owner, Julius Madrich, to save the Jews working in his own factory; how Jewish workers in Schindler's Bruennlitz concentration camp factory sabotaged bomb shell casings; an incident in which she and other female Schindler Jews were transported to Birkenau by mistake instead of going directly to Bruennlitz; how some of the Schindler Jews used gold fillings to fashion a gold ring for Schindler on his birthday in April 1945; Schindler’s friendships with the Jews he rescued; and his designation as Righteous Among the Nations.

    Oral history interview with Leopold Page

    Oral history interview with Leopold Page

    Oral History

    Leopold Page discusses his first meeting with Oskar Schindler and Schindler's physical appearance; how Schindler rescued several female prisoners from Auschwitz (Birkenau) concentration camp and male prisoners from Gross-Rosen concentration camp after they were misrouted on the way to Bruennlitz concentration camp; the establishment of the Kraków ghetto and resistance activities he witnessed there; how he and his wife, Ludmilla Page, escaped from the Kraków ghetto during the liquidation action; how he and other prisoners kept statistics on the number of prisoners killed each day in Plaszów concentration camp; his memories of Amon Goeth, commandant of Plaszów concentration camp; how the prisoners of Plaszów prayed as a form of resistance; how friendships among the prisoners helped them survive; how the Schindler Jews sabotaged bomb shell casing while working in Schindler's factory in Bruennlitz concentration camp; Schindler helping the Jews disarm and imprison their German captors in Bruennlitz; how Schindler attempted to persuade Julius Madrich to save the Jews working in his own factory; Russian soldiers liberating the Schindler Jews in Bruennlitz; Oskar Schindler receiving the award of Righteous Gentile for his efforts to save Jews during the Holocaust; his memories of Kristallnacht in November 1938; and how some prisoners in Bruennlitz fashioned a ring from gold fillings as a birthday gift for Schindler in April 1945.

    Oral history interview with Esther Raab

    Oral history interview with Esther Raab

    Oral History

    Esther Raab discusses her transfer from a forced labor camp to Sobibór concentration camp; how Sobibór commandant Wagner selected her and other girls to work sorting the belongings of people gassed in the camp; how the SS camp guards processed arrivals of new prisoners in the camp; the extreme cruelty of two camp guards, Frenzel and Wagner; how she and other workers found notes among the belongings of prisoners from Treblinka and Belzec concentration camps and how the notes mentioned revenge against the Germans; how she and other Sobibór inmates planned and executed the revolt in the camp; escaping into the woods near the camp during the revolt and receiving a gunshot wound during the escape; how the Sobibór camp guards punished prisoners who attempted to escape; her thoughts on the differences between a concentration camp and a death camp; how she and other Sobibór escapees received food and shelter from a Polish farmer; her memories of life in Poland before World War II; her time in "Stafnovushulke" forced labor camp; her thoughts on her actions during the Sobibór revolt as being actions of heroism; the types of spiritual resistance that occurred in Sobibór; and how her mother prepared her for World War II by telling her stories of life in Poland during World War I.

    Oral history interview with Agi Rubin

    Oral history interview with Agi Rubin

    Oral History

    Agi Rubin discusses being age 14 when she and her family were deported to Auschwitz; her family's arrival in Auschwitz concentration camp in 1944 and her separation from her mother during a selection; being registered and tattooed in Auschwitz; her work on a special commando sorting the belongings of recently gassed prisoners; how she and others in the commando sabotaged the clothing they sorted and tied into bundles; how the camp guards in Auschwitz singled out certain commandos for certain tasks; her observation of the gassing and cremation processes in Auschwitz and Birkenau; her experiences with a Kapo in Auschwitz; her memories of the "Garnerlager" or so-called "Gypsy" camp in Auschwitz; her observations of the selection process conducted by Josef Mengele at the Auschwitz train platform; her thoughts on how the crematoria in Auschwitz affected her senses; how some prisoners recited prayers on their way to the gas chambers; her experiences with lice; her time in Ravensbrück concentration camp; being sent on a death march in January 1945; and her thoughts on heroism as a part of survival. At the end of the interview, Rubin displays and discusses photographs from a family photo album.

    Oral history interview with Tina Strobos

    Oral history interview with Tina Strobos

    Oral History

    Tina Strobos discusses her experiences during the German invasion of the Netherlands and how life changed for the citizens of Rotterdam; the role of Arthur Seyss-Inquart in the Nazi-occupation government of the Netherlands; the role of the Gestapo during the German occupation of the Netherlands; her involvement in an underground resistance group in the Netherlands lead by Johann Brower; her time in hiding and the hiding place she used inside her own home; the underground work of the "Lomlok Organization" to help Jews find hiding places; how she and her family rescued other Jews by letting them hide in their Rotterdam home; and how some Nazi sympathizers in the Netherlands denounced and betrayed their Jewish neighbors.

    Oral history interview with Emanuel Tanay

    Oral history interview with Emanuel Tanay

    Oral History

    Emanuel Tanay discusses how life changed for the Jews in Miechów, Poland, after the German invasion in 1939; how the Germans increased persecutions against Jews with collaboration by Ukrainians and Lithuanians; his thoughts on the differences between Polish Jews and Jews from Western Europe; his family's time in the ghetto in Miechów, Poland; hiding in a monastery in Mogila, Poland, where he posed as a novice for the priesthood; the assistance he received from the monastery's prior, Father Kuhar; his flight from the monastery when the Gestapo raided his cell; how the Germans imprisoned Father Kuhar and other priests from the Mogila monastery in Auschwitz concentration camp for giving assistance to people in the underground resistance; his thoughts on how being a teenager helped him to survive; how he and his family fled to Hungary in 1943 using false identification papers; his time in a prison in Budapest, Hungary, and subsequent escape; volunteering to the Gestapo to be executed and how the Gestapo failed to carry out the execution; his brief time in the ghetto in Warsaw, Poland, just before the uprising; and his thoughts on what special qualities a person needed to be a survivor.

    Oral history interview with Bella Tovey

    Oral history interview with Bella Tovey

    Oral History

    Bella Tovey discusses how life changed in Sosnowiec, Poland, and persecutions increased for Jews after the German invasion; how the Germans established a ghetto in Sosnowiec; how members of the intelligentsia started to disappear and how others went to work camps; being taken to a work camp and her parents gained her release by having her younger sister, Pina, replace her in the camp; the liquidation of the Sosnowiec ghetto and her family's move to a smaller ghetto called Srodula; her time in Gräben (a.k.a. Gräen) concentration camp near Striegel, Germany, where the prisoners worked in a flax mill; her experiences with a Kapo in Gräben labor camp; how the Germans incorporated Gräben into the camp system of Gross-Rosen concentration camp; her time on a death march to Bergen-Belsen concentration camp and her bouts with typhus and typhoid while in the camp; the various friendships that she had with other girls during her time in the camps; her thoughts on spiritual resistance in the camp; her reaction to hearing about what happened to Jews in Auschwitz; the liberation of Bergen-Belsen by British troops in 1945; and her loss of faith in God during the Holocaust and how she regained her faith and began her Jewish and religious studies later in life.

    Oral history interview with Helen Waterford

    Oral history interview with Helen Waterford

    Oral History

    Helen Waterford discusses her family's time in hiding in the Netherlands and how she and her husband decided to hide their daughter with another family; her family's relationship with Joe Fisch, a rescuer of many Jews in the Netherlands; her and her husband's arrest and deportation to Auschwitz concentration camp via Westerbork concentration camp; her experiences during a selection upon her arrival in Auschwitz; her thoughts on the lack of resistance in Auschwitz; how at one time she was in a barracks with Anne Frank and Anne Frank's mother; her memories of Josef Mengele in Auschwitz; her move from Auschwitz to work in a factory in Czechoslovakia; and her opinions on humankind in light of her Holocaust experiences and how she does not consider survival to be an achievement.

    Oral history interview with Ruth Webber

    Oral history interview with Ruth Webber

    Oral History

    Ruth Webber discusses her memories of the Germans invading Ostrowiec Swietokrzyski, Poland, in 1939; her time in Botsohov (Bodzechów) work camp with her parents; moving to the ghetto in Ostrowiec Swietokrzyski, Poland with her mother; their escape from the ghetto and return to the Botshohov work camp; her time in Austrowiec (Ostrowiec) concentration camp; her time in Starachowice concentration camp; her transport to Auschwitz concentration camp; her arrival in Auschwitz and her memories of the registration process; her time in the Auschwitz infirmary suffering from measles; her memories of the Auschwitz crematoria and her realization of what was happening to the prisoners there; what it was like to be a child among mostly adults in Auschwitz; her move to the "children's block" in Auschwitz after her mother moved to another camp; the special care and protection she received from her mother while in Auschwitz; how she considers her mother to be a hero; and her thoughts on humanity in light of her Holocaust experiences.

    Oral history interview with Ernest Weihs

    Oral history interview with Ernest Weihs

    Oral History

    Ernest Weihs, born in Vienna, Austria in November 1908, discusses his conversion from Judaism to Lutheranism at age eleven; the changing situation for Jews in Vienna, Austria in 1938; the aid that he and his future wife received from Swedish missionaries in Austria; his imprisonment in Theresienstadt in 1942; his marriage while in Theresienstadt; his escape from a death march on the way to Dachau concentration camp; his experiences with Kapos; the religious practices that took place in Theresienstadt; his brief time in Auschwitz concentration camp; and his witness to a suicide while in Kaufering concentration camp.

    Oral history interview with Norbert Wollheim

    Oral history interview with Norbert Wollheim

    Oral History

    Norbert Wollheim discusses his parents' deportation from Berlin, Germany in 1943 and his deportation with his wife and son to Auschwitz concentration camp in 1943; how some prisoners prayed and celebrated Sabbath while on the transport to Auschwitz; his arrival in Auschwitz and his separation from his wife and child; his registration and tattoo; the role of the SS in Auschwitz; his time working in the Buna factory near the camp; his work as a welder in Auschwitz; his friend Fritz Schaeffer who committed suicide while in Auschwitz; his experiences with Kapos; his thoughts on spiritual resistance in the camp; his memories of Kristallnacht in Germany in 1938; his involvement in a Kindertransport of children from Berlin to England shortly after Kristallnacht; his memories of life in Berlin before 1933 and how conditions changed for Jews after the Nazis came to power; his memories of the voyage of the St. Louis; his thoughts on revenge; his feelings at the time of liberation; his thoughts on the different types of concentration camps; his thoughts on forced labor and work camps used during the Holocaust; the choices he made in order to survive; how he relied on the friendships with other inmates for support and how he befriended British prisoners of war while in Auschwitz; how age and gender played a role in who survived the Holocaust; and his memories of the "Appel" in Auschwitz.

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