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Oral history interview with Mary Schroder Moen Jacobs

Oral History | Digitized | Accession Number: 1984.1.1.9 | RG Number: RG-50.157.0009

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    Oral history interview with Mary Schroder Moen Jacobs
    Transcript

    There is no transcript available for this track

    Before the war, did you have any feeling about Jews?
    I had a feeling about them as I did about anyone else.
    I liked them fine if they were nice people and that
    was all there was to it.
    What word on this page comes closest, on the page 13,
    to the way you've felt about Jews before the war?
    Well, I thought well of those that I
    knew that were my friends.
    Yes.
    The others you did not know.
    I didn't know them.
    Can't say how I felt about them.
    Yes.
    And during the war did your feeling about Jews change?
    No.
    On page 13, what number on the scale
    comes closest to the way you felt about Jews during the war?
    I thought well of them.
    Before the war, did you have any feeling about gypsies?
    No.
    I never thought about it.
    What number on the scale comes closest to the way you felt?
    I did not feel.
    During the war, the feeling about gypsies change?
    No.
    On page 13, please tell me the number
    on the scale that comes closest to the way you felt
    during the war about gypsies.
    No, nothing.
    Before the war, did you have any feeling about Nazis?
    Yes.
    On page 13, what number on the scale
    comes closest to the way you felt about the Nazis
    before the war?
    Seven.
    During the war, did your feeling about the Nazis change?
    No.
    On page 13, what number on the scale
    comes closest to the way you felt
    about Nazis during the war?
    [LAUGHING] 600.
    So we put seven.
    Now I have here thinking about your feelings
    in this present time, please pick the word that
    comes closest to the way you feel about each
    of the following statements.
    Where were you living for the longest period of time
    during the war, in what place and country?
    So that was Amersfoort again and Holland.
    Would you like to spell it again?
    Sure.
    A-M-E-R-S-F-O-O-R-T.
    Would you like to turn to page 14?
    And you say that was a small city
    Yes, a small city.
    Did you live in a house or an apartment?
    In a house.
    How many stories did the house have?
    Two.
    Not counting the cellar and the attic.
    No, two stories.
    And was there a cellar?
    No.
    And then attic?
    Yes.
    Did you own the house or you rented it?
    We rented it.
    How many rooms were in the home, not counting the bathrooms.
    But counting the kitchen?
    Just not the bathrooms.
    OK.
    1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.
    Were there other members who were
    living with you during the war?
    Relatives?
    No, just our own family.
    Before the war, were there any Jews living in the community
    where you were staying?
    Yes.
    Were there many Jews living or some Jews.
    Some.
    Did you have a sense of belonging in the community?
    Yes.
    Now I would like to make a list of the people who
    were living in your household before the war broke out
    in 1939.
    I don't need the names again, just the relationship to you
    and their ages in 1939.
    OK.
    There were just my mother and my brother and myself.
    In 1939.
    Yes.
    And mother was the head?
    Yes.
    And what were their ages in 1939?
    My mother was 36 and my brother would have been 14.
    Mother did do something in 1939 or just--
    No.
    --she was a housewife?
    So that includes everyone living in your house?
    She rented out the rooms in 1939.
    Oh no, that was 1940, sorry.
    But in any case, they were not in our household.
    They were just--
    And not family.
    Before the war, were you very well off financially?
    [INTERPOSING VOICES]
    Neither poor nor--
    Neither rich nor poor.
    And before the war, on page 17, did
    you think of yourself as being upper class?
    Middle class?
    Middle class.
    You did not get married during the war?
    No.
    They had me really [? small ?].
    During the war, did you have some close friends, a few close
    friends, or no close friends?
    A few.
    Before the Second World War, were you
    a member of a political party?
    No.
    After the war started, did you belong to a group
    that opposed the Nazis?
    No.
    On page 20, if someone needed your help,
    would you be more likely to help someone
    you know, someone you don't know, or wouldn't
    make any difference?
    Well, I guess being human I would give help
    to someone I know.
    But if I were asked to give help to someone I didn't know,
    I would do that too.
    There is no difference.
    Yeah, there is a difference, but OK.
    Too subtle to discuss in yes/no.
    Because the people whom you said they were not known
    and you did it.
    During the war, did you ever help any Jews?
    Yes.
    Yes.
    What kind of things did you do?
    Again, we concealed them, concealed Jews and fed them
    and looked after them.
    Was there ever a time when you wanted
    to help but you felt that you could not?
    Yes, I suppose.
    But at the point where all the beds were filled
    we could not take on any more people.
    That was by the circumstances.
    Yeah.
    When all space was taken.
    During the war, were there any leaders that you admired,
    and who were they?
    No.
    No leaders you admired?
    No.
    Because you lived in Holland.
    Between 1939 and 1945 were you ever unjustly treated
    by any government officials?
    No.
    Was anyone you cared about ever to unjustly
    treated by the Nazis?
    Well, certainly the people that were with us
    were unjustly treated.
    Oh, and yes, my uncle was in prison, that's right.
    Yes.
    OK then.
    I don't know when it was that he was in prison.
    Are we talking about treated in fact
    or treated as part of a group?
    Because you see the Jews were all
    unjustly treated by the Nazis.
    Yes, so anyone who cared about--
    The very people that we were hiding.
    --whom you knew also.
    Or it could be the people you have been close to them.
    Well then my uncle.
    And that was--
    When was that?
    That I can't tell you.
    I can't tell when it was.
    Sometime during 1943, I think.
    What happened to him?
    He was picked up by the Nazis and put in prison.
    For what?
    For hiding Jews.
    Did you ever witness mistreatment of Jews
    by the Nazis?
    No.
    So you say you never--
    No, never seen anyone actually being mistreated.
    Did you ever witness mistreatment of anyone
    by the Nazis?
    Yes.
    But you said mistreated by the Nazis--
    I know, but I didn't witness it.
    I didn't see it.
    Unless we're talking now about the very fact
    that they were persecuted and that it was
    necessary to have them hide.
    Also those people who were hiding in your place,
    so they were probably mistreated and therefore they came.
    They were kicked out of their homes.
    But I wasn't there when that happened.
    I did not see that.
    You did not witness the act.
    No.
    But I was aware of it.
    But to be a witness means that you saw it with your own eyes,
    right?
    Yes.
    In the street or so to hanged and so on.
    And did you ever witness mistreatment of anyone
    by the Nazis?
    Yes.
    Yes.
    And when was that and what happened?
    That was in 1940.
    Yes.
    A German soldier was kicked and beaten by his--
    A German soldier was kicked and beaten
    by his own commanding officer.
    On what occasion did you become aware of what the Nazis
    intended to do with the Jews?
    It was when I saw the signs appear on public places
    that Jews were not allowed entrance to, for instance,
    swimming pools, restaurants, libraries,
    and even could not use park benches.
    How did you feel the first time when
    you saw a Jew wearing the yellow Star of David?
    I thought it was very peculiar that they should be singled out
    like that.
    What was the most stressful situation
    you were in during the war?
    I remember one time particularly when
    I was alone at home with our guests
    and my mother had to go out to get something,
    I think ration coupons, from an area near the railroad station.
    And it was being bombed at the time when she was away
    and we could see the bombing from our window.
    But we did not know exactly where she was.
    Bombing the street.
    The railroad station.
    And worrying.
    And worrying that my mother was there.
    What was your reaction to the stress?
    Stomach cramps.
    Really.
    I was really very frightened.
    So very frightened.
    We would like a list of the people
    who were living with you at the present time,
    their relationship to you, the first and last names, age,
    and whether you knew during the Second World War.
    You want the names of my family?
    Yes.
    All right then.
    Maybe I have better write it down myself.
    Yes.
    Well, there's first myself then, Maria Jacobs Benalot Moen.
    Lot more female.
    And I'm 53 years old.
    And my husband Peter Benalot Moen.
    He's male, and he's 53.
    And I did not know him during the war.
    And then there's my daughter, Cecilia Benalot Moen.
    Female.
    She's 19.
    And my son, Francis Benalot Moen.
    He's male, and he's 13.
    We would like the exact address of the place
    where you lived the longest during the Second World
    War, the number and the street.
    OK 18 Borneoplein.
    That is still B-O-R-N-E-O-P-L-E-I-N.
    There's apartment number.
    The city Amersfoort.
    A-M-E-R-S-F-O-O-R-T.
    And what was the name of the family
    who lived at this address?
    That was my mother's name.
    Well, you see this is a problem.
    My mother's name was one thing and our name
    was something else, my brother and I.
    My mother's name was Lucie.
    That was on her name.
    Lucie.
    L-U-C-I-E. L-U-C-I-E.
    Yes.
    Wolsak.
    W-O-L-S-A-K
    OK.
    Does this apartment still exist, or the house?
    The house still exists.
    Now are there any publication or articles
    about your rescue activity?
    Yes.
    What is the name of the publication or the article
    and who is the author?
    You have it right there.
    It's that book.
    So the answer was yes, it is a book.
    And the title of it is Precautions Against Death.
    Precautions Against Death.
    And the author?
    The author is myself.
    So I think we are through this whole interview
    and we have to thank you very much for giving us
    this precious account.
    And I hope we are able to use it for very useful successes
    And thank you again for taking your time and your effort.
    Oh, you're most welcome.
    Thank you.

    Overview

    Interview Summary
    Mary Schroder Moen Jacobs, born in 1930 in a suburb of Utrecht, Netherlands, describes spending most of her life in Amersfoort, Netherlands beginning in 1940; hiding four Jews (a young man, a young woman, and a couple) in their house from 1942 until liberation; remembering that time as dangerous, tense, and very difficult; the two times that the Germans came to their house, once to search and the other to house two German soldiers, all while the Jews where hiding in one room next to the Germans; the network of 40 to 50 people who were involved in the rescue activities; how her mother was her role model because she always wanted to help the underdog or less fortunate and do all she could to sustain life; immigrating to Canada in 1955 after having first lived in the United States for a short while; and writing a book (as Maria Jacobs) about her experiences, “Precautions Against Death” (published in 1984 by Mosaic Press) along with a few other publications.
    Interviewee
    Mary S. Jacobs
    Date
    interview:  1984 September 18
    Credit Line
    United States Holocaust Memorial Council

    Physical Details

    Language
    English
    Extent
    2 sound cassettes (90 min.).

    Rights & Restrictions

    Conditions on Access
    There are no known restrictions on access to this material.
    Conditions on Use
    No restrictions on use

    Keywords & Subjects

    Administrative Notes

    Legal Status
    Permanent Collection
    Provenance
    The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Council interviewed Mary Schroder Moen Jacobs on September 18, 1984 as part of the international conference "Faith in Humankind: Rescuers of Jews During the Holocaust" held at the U. S. Department of State, Washington, DC.
    Funding Note
    The cataloging of this oral history interview has been supported by a grant from the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany.
    Record last modified:
    2023-11-16 08:18:40
    This page:
    https:​/​/collections.ushmm.org​/search​/catalog​/irn510785

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    Oral history interview with Halina Melnyczuk

    Oral History

    Halina Sophia Melnyczuk (née Zahaikiewicz), born February 21, 1921 in Przemysl, Poland, describes her two brothers and one sister; growing up in a vaguely religious Ukrainian Catholic family that was not political; living in an apartment building where they were the only non-Jews; how when the war started in 1939 they had as many as 30 Jews living with them and their housekeeper threatened to turn them in to the Nazis; moving to another apartment in 1942 because the old one had heavy damage from shelling; how the new apartment was across from the police station; the liquidation of the ghetto in 1943 and taking in a young couple, Edek and Eda Scheffler, whom they hid by camouflaging the pantry to look like bookshelves; sharing their rations and sometimes selling items from their apartment to buy meat; instances when it seemed they’d been found out; being on the list to be transported to a concentration camp in Siberia but deciding to emigrate instead; leaving everything behind, including the Schefflers, who now live in Israel; living in Kraków, Poland; fleeing to Vienna, Austria in 1944; how the war did not change her religious beliefs but left her more tolerant of other people; and her belief that the most important thing is to do good deeds.

    Oral history interview with Tjitske Mulder

    Oral History

    Tjitske Mulder (née Hoogeveen), born June 23, 1909 in Westermeer, Netherlands, describes growing up in a very close family with five brothers and two sisters; her father, who was a dairy farmer and a member of an anti-revolutionary party and the underground; her father teaching her that the most important attribute was to be independent and to ignore social class structures; getting married in Bergum, Netherlands in 1930 to a barber; having two sons in the small city of Sneek, Netherlands during the war years; how in Sneek Jews were always well thought of; her and her husband’s first rescue activity moving a Jewish girl from one hiding place to another; hiding the parents of the Jewish girl, whom the Gestapo were chasing; an interesting subterfuge they used when the Gestapo came to their house; remaining friends with the girl, Lydia; speaking frequently publicly about their activities; their children and grandchildren, who are as strongly supportive of what they did during the war; their willingness to help anyone, whether they knew them or not, and doing so without regret; the friendship that grew between the two families when they lived together, praying, singing, and arguing together; her husband’s belief that Hitler was doing wrong by the Jews and how his own inner voice told him to help, as the Bible was his guide; and how they were given no money to keep the Jews in hiding.

    Oral history interview with Wanda Ollbryska

    Oral History

    Oral history interview with Irene Opdyke

    Oral History

    Irene Opdyke, born in Kozienice, Poland, describes growing up in a close, Catholic family with four younger sisters, all of whom were taught always to keep an open heart, to be helpful; joining the Polish army then hiding in the forest after Poland was defeated; being very brutally treated by Russian troops and eventually being sent to an ammunitions factory in Poland, where she acted as a server; being sent to the front in Poland, close to the Russian border where she witnessed horrendous brutalities carried out on Jewish families; being moved again to work in the laundry room of about 300 Germans and the local head of the Gestapo in Ternopil', Ukraine; befriending 12 Jews working there and creating an information network; becoming the housekeeper to a German major and managing to hide Jews in the cellar in an underground area under the gazebo; the liquidation of the ghetto in early 1943 and taking the 12 Jews to the forest to join others in hiding; building a bunker where the Jews stayed until the Russian Army liberated them; joining the Polish partisans to help in the fight against the Russians and eventually being arrested and put in detention; escaping by jumping out a window; going to Krakow, Poland; going to the United States in 1949 and becoming a US citizen; working in the garment center in NYC; getting married to a man who worked for the United Nations; and the tree planted in her honor on the Avenue of the Righteous in Jerusalem.

    Oral history interview with Jacob Oversloot

    Oral History

    Jacob Simon Oversloot, born in Rotterdam, Netherlands, describe growing up in a family that was not religious and not political; his six siblings; living in The Hague, Netherlands when the war broke out and working at a department store in the furs section; people arriving from Poland and Germany starting in 1938; the German occupation and Germans shipping staple goods to Germany, leaving nothing for residents; taking in his close Jewish business acquaintance (Leo Krell) along with his wife and son when they were going to be transported to Auschwitz and hiding them from 1940 to 1944; making fur coats with this man; the persecution and deportation of the Jews; never witnessing acts of violence against Jews; his hatred for the occupying Germans and refusing to follow their laws or do what they told him to; no one in their family knowing that he and his wife were hiding Jews; how they kept the Jews safe; getting foods from the black market and from the underground movement; restarting his fur business after the war, until 1950 when he moved to Canada; how his rescue activities strengthened his inner faith and that he would do the same now; and his lifetime friendship with the family he hid.

    Oral history interview with Alice Paulus

    Oral History

    Alice Paulus (née Rijskamp), born in 1915, describes being newly married with a five month old baby when she and her husband began their rescue activities; helping to rescue five people; one couple staying with them for two and a half years in hiding; how many of their friends would not help the Jews, thinking it much too dangerous; believing it was their Christian duty; the most stressful time during the war when her second child was born and there was no hospital, few medicines, and bombs dropping on the city; conducting rescue activities from October 1942 to the end of the war in May 1945, but continuing to host the couple because there was no place for them to live; how three of her husband’s brothers also hid Jews; speaking to church groups often when they first came to Ohio in 1957-1962; speaking in the pubic schools; the major influence religion now has on how she lives her life; and her admiration for Winston Churchill and the Holland leadership for being very honest.

    Oral history interview with Marion Pritchard

    Oral History

    Marion Pritchard, born November 7, 1920 in Amsterdam, Netherlands, describes her apolitical family; her brother; her family’s Jewish friends; how her father was upset with the Dutch government because they didn’t just open their borders to refugees; her work finding foster homes for Jewish children and also hiding Jews; how her family did not know all of what she was doing, which was for their safety; the widespread antisemitism in Holland; being imprisoned for six months in a jail in Amsterdam after being caught with friends who put out an anti-Nazi newssheet; being threatened and intimidated, but not physically abused; leaving Holland in 1945 to work with the United Nations in displaced persons camps in Germany; becoming active with Zionists trying get to Israel; going to the United States in 1947; her thoughts on Elie Wiesel; her husband, who was a liberator at Buchenwald; and her belief that you must do the right thing if you can find out what the right thing is.

    Oral history interview with Mary Barys Szul

    Oral History

    Mary Szul (née Barys), born in 1928, describes being 15 years old and living in a little village in Poland with her mother, brother, and sister at the start of the war; rescuing a total of four people, the first being a widow with two small children, whom they hid in the attic in the summer and in a bunker built under straw in the barn in the winter; being caught by the Germans and being badly beaten then jailed for two weeks; being freed and finding her way home, a 70 mile trek; going to Austria to a displaced persons camp; going in 1948 to Canada, where she found the Jews she had rescued and ended up living with them as family; the reason she got involved in rescue activities; how her rescue activities started in May 1943 and continued for 18 months; her neighbors’ disapproving of her family’s rescue activities when they found out about them after the war; and her life now in London, Ontario.

    Oral history interview with Magda Trocme

    Oral History

    Magda Trocme, born in 1901, describes her rescue activities during WWII in the French village of Le Chambon sur Lignon; Philip Hallie’s book, “Lest innocent blood be shed,” which describes the French village Le Chambon as a safe haven for Jewish escapees; working with the Quakers; one of their first rescued Jews, Hanna Hirsch, and the quasi-underground arrangement for refugees, so that she eventually ended up in Switzerland and then Queens, New York after the war; how the French people got involved with rescue activities and inspired others to help; the daily routine during the war and the large numbers of refugees who were sharing their house; the difficulty in explaining the rescue activities to their children so that the refugees wouldn’t be discovered and how it was a matter of constant problem-solving and resisting in small ways; being very aware of the danger they were in but never considering not helping; her husband’s arrest because he was the organizer of the rescue activities and most responsible; her husband’s release after the war was over; leaving Le Chambon in 1960 and moving first to Versailles and later to Geneva, where her husband was a minister; and visiting Yad Vashem in Israel, where a tree was planted in her husband’s honor.

    Oral history interview with Andrew van Schilfgaarde

    Oral History

    Andrew van Schilfgaarde, born in 1933 in The Hague, Netherlands, describes growing up one of seven children; being members of the Christian Community Church but not being particularly religious or political, though they did vote; having many Jewish friends; being aware of the persecution against Jews as his friends dropped out of school and were deported; the vacated homes being looted or taken over by the Germans; his attempts to listen to the BBC and being caught with a radio, which was a forbidden item; stealing food to survive and selling the food back on the black market; hiding Jews for a few days in the attic before they went on to another house, then to France, and then to England; how his neighbors were a problem because they might report them; the role of resistance groups as the contact point for the rescue activities; how human values change due to starvation; leaving Holland in 1956 and going to the United States; having a landscape business then working in the food and drink business; not discussing his wartime experiences with his wife or friends; his life-philosophy to live day by day; and knowing that the past cannot be changed but something like the Holocaust should never happen again.

    Oral history interview with Ann van Veldhuizen

    Oral History

    Oral history interview with Johanna Vos

    Oral History

    Johanna Vos, born December 29, 1909 in Amersfoort, Netherlands, discusses her upbringing and the influence her parents had on her life; her family’s religious background in the Christian Reformed Church; moving frequently as a result of her father’s job as a military officer but living in Leiden for most of her school years; dating a Jewish boy at age seventeen despite her parents’ disapproval; leaving home at age 20 to go to Paris, France; studying at the Sorbonne and working in Paris as a freelance journalist and as a delivery person for a Dutch grocer; marrying a German artist against her parents’ wishes and later divorcing; living in Laren, Holland during World War II; marrying her second husband and having children; becoming involved in activities to help Jews, first by helping her Jewish friends and then joining the Dutch underground; wearing the Star of David in solidarity with the Jewish population; falsifying papers and smuggling the belongings of German Jewish refugees into the Netherlands; serving as a messenger; hiding more than 36 people in her home, most of whom were Jews but some of whom were intellectuals or others targeted by the Nazis; her husband picking up weapons airdropped by Allied forces for the resistance; the killing of an author by the Gestapo and the capture of a fellow member of the underground; being confronted by the Gestapo at her home; facing the challenge of hiding small children who did not fully understand their situation; coping with the mental breakdown of a woman hiding in her home; her husband’s pension through the Stichting 1940-1945 and his suffering from “Twenty Year Syndrome;” and her thoughts about her actions during the war.

    Oral history interview with Theresa Weerstra

    Oral History

    Theresa Weerstra, born August 6, 1907 in Wijckel, Netherlands, describes her father Hans Peopjes, who was a fisherman, and her mother Arendje Roskan; her eight younger siblings, who were all girls; growing up in a family that was not religious but taught her to be generous to everything that is living, from flowers to human beings and never to be prejudiced; living in IJlst in Freisland province when the war broke out; getting married to Martin in 1930 and moving to Chicago, IL that same year during the recession but returning home soon thereafter; living two miles from the Nazi headquarters for the Netherlands; living near a large antisemitic population; taking in an orphaned young Jewish girl, which opened the door to helping many, many more Jews, some of whom she remains in contact with; hiding places they created in their home; housing 18 Jews at one point; receiving help from friends, who got them extra ration cards; delivering a baby born to one of the Jewish couples; the large network of people working in the rescue effort and using codes to relay messages since as there was only one phone in town; and how she is still upset by the Holocaust and does not consider herself a hero.

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