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Oral history interview with Sally Levenstein

Oral History | Digitized | Accession Number: 1993.A.0088.18 | RG Number: RG-50.002.0018

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    Oral history interview with Sally Levenstein
    Transcript
    --Langer.
    And I'm the director of the Oral History Project
    at the Holocaust Studies Resource Center
    at Kean College of New Jersey.
    I'm very pleased that this is Sally Levenstein of Hillside,
    New Jersey that's come to the college today
    to talk with me about some of her experiences
    during the years of the Holocaust.
    Mrs. Levenstein, thank you very much for coming.
    You're welcome.
    Nice to meet you, doctor.
    Nice to meet you.
    Can you tell me a little bit about when
    you were born, where you were born, the town, the country?
    I was in Poland not far from-- usually,
    we was living in Kraków.
    But my parents had, too, all kind of land, properties.
    It was Kazimierza Wielka.
    This is from Kraków, a suburb of Kraków.
    That's the town you were born in.
    Born in, that's right.
    All my life and school, we went in Kraków.
    It was not far.
    What year were you born in?
    Beg your pardon?
    What year were you born in?
    I was born in 1909.
    I'm a old lady now.
    No, you're not.
    You're a young lady.
    So you were born in a suburb of Kraków.
    Of Kraków, Kazimierza Wielka.
    Can you spell that?
    Beg your pardon?
    Kazimierza Wielka-- K-A-Z-I-M-I-E-R-Z-A,
    Kazimierza.
    Wielka is W-I-E-L-K-I-E.
    How large was this town?
    This was a town of--
    Jewish people was living, maybe 200, 300.
    It was a small suburb.
    But all kinds, it could be about maybe 150,000.
    It was a big place.
    It was over there.
    And a lot of very--
    there was a factory from sugar, a factory for sugar.
    It was a very nice place, a comfortable place.
    And what did your family do?
    My parents-- my father, when he was alive,
    he bought acres of land.
    He was a buyer and a seller.
    I cannot express how it is in English.
    But in Jewish or in Polish, it's like a Yiddish [INAUDIBLE],,
    port.
    You follow me?
    Yeah.
    It was hundred of acre land.
    In 1918, he passed away.
    And I have-- my family was eight children.
    I'm from five sisters and three brothers, I have.
    And when my father passed away, the brother took over.
    And he was take care on the business.
    A little later, he get married.
    All the children get married.
    And my mother couldn't care everything.
    It's a style in Poland--
    some people take 5 acres of land, 10 acres.
    There was a factory from sugar that took 50 acres of land.
    And they preserve sugar--
    not potato, they're sugar carrots.
    Right.
    Sugar-- carrots to make sugar.
    So this time was a time only for vegetables to make sugar.
    And this was-- and they was carrying.
    They paid every month so much money to my parent,
    and paid even to the government.
    What are they paying?
    The tax.
    Right.
    Yeah.
    Your father passed away in 1918.
    1918.
    He died of natural--
    He died.
    He have diphtheria.
    He became-- just winter, he came back for now.
    In the spot where he bought, again, land.
    And he catched diphtheria.
    You know how diphtheria is.
    Sure.
    In Polish, it's the same in English.
    A little later, he had-- in the morning, he passed away.
    So you were nine years old--
    I was eight-- nine years old.
    That's right.
    --when he passed away.
    You have very vivid memories?
    Oh, yeah, I have memory of him, but not
    so much, because I was a young kid--
    not a young kid, but still, I remember
    his face, how he looked.
    You said you had five sisters?
    I'm the youngster.
    I'm from five sisters.
    You're the youngest in the whole family.
    Youngest in the whole family.
    And nobody-- only two sisters survived the war.
    And [INAUDIBLE] survived the war.
    We came to the States, and a normal death, all the brothers
    and other sisters.
    And all my nephews and nieces, they was killed by Hitler.
    And now I'm alone.
    And my sister took us away.
    And I have two nephews.
    One is a doctor.
    He lives in Houston, Texas.
    And one is a builder, because his father was always
    the builder.
    From generation to generation, there was a builder.
    And after he came to the States, he said, I show you plans,
    and I will teach you, and everything.
    He became a builder.
    He started building the same building.
    We took two, one nephew from my husband's side, Maury Ponteera.
    And one man was Zuckerman.
    [INAUDIBLE]
    It was a comfortable life.
    He made a business.
    I'd like to ask you a little bit about that later on.
    I've interviewed Sam Halpern and Abe Zuckerman before.
    Yeah, you know these people.
    Yes.
    Very, very nice people.
    They're nice people, yeah.
    But our partners is Zuckerman and Maury Ponteera.
    And he's a nephew to my husband.
    Maury's-- yes.
    Yeah.
    OK.
    If we could, go back just for a few minutes
    to the time when you grew up, when you were a little girl.
    Yeah.
    What kind of school did you go to?
    I finished high school, gymnasium.
    You finished all the way through gymnasium.
    All through gymnasium.
    We had a gymnasium at home.
    And a little later, I went away to Kraków,
    which is switched to Kraków for higher.
    You went to secular public school the whole time?
    I went public school till seventh grade.
    In seventh grade, we went to second gymnasium.
    Right.
    And I finished all gymnasium like lycee.
    You know what I'm saying?
    First was matura in Polish.
    A little later, they make lycee.
    And I finished in Kraków.
    OK.
    Did you have any Jewish education?
    Oh, yeah.
    We had a private teacher.
    We were to learn, to pray, to everything.
    We had private teachers, because it was not a--
    it was a cheder.
    If we didn't go to the cheders, we had--
    My father, a little later, when he passed away,
    my mother took a teacher in the house, three or four families.
    And they teach Hebrew.
    They teach the davening.
    But you're not using all that.
    If you come to use it, you'll remember this a little bit.
    How was the town from Kraków?
    Not far, just by train about two hours.
    About two hours by train.
    By train.
    It was really a very small Jewish community in the town.
    Yeah, it was a small Jewish.
    We was over there living, because we had over there the--
    The land.
    --the land.
    And with a lawyer, we did everything with a office.
    It was everything, this place.
    But what you needed, we take the train.
    It went only to Kraków.
    A little later, I married my husband.
    He's from Kraków.
    He said he was living in Kraków.
    Going back again in the town, did your brothers
    go to cheder in the town?
    Did you have a cheder in the town?
    There was a cheder.
    But my father didn't-- he had private teachers.
    So the boys, it's the same to the girls.
    Yeah, a private teacher.
    Matter of fact, one brother was a rabbi.
    He never was a--
    a [INAUDIBLE].
    [INAUDIBLE]
    And he was a business man.
    And the other brother was also a business man,
    and the other brother, too.
    But everybody knows perfect Hebrew and everything.
    Oh, yeah, we had teachers to learn a lot of times.
    When my father was alive, the children
    was not involved in nothing, only the studies.
    A little later, he passed away, and we have the business.
    One brother the-- when he was a rabbi,
    he was living in a different place not far from Kazimierza.
    He was living in a place.
    It was Wislica, called this.
    And the two brothers was home with my mother,
    because only two children were-- three children was married.
    And my father passed away.
    How old was your oldest--
    My older sister--
    When your father passed away, your oldest
    was a boy or a girl?
    The oldest was a--
    It was a girl.
    And she was how old?
    She was married.
    She had two children.
    A little alter comes a brother.
    It was the rabbi.
    And a little later comes another sister.
    So they were in their 20s.
    Oh, yes.
    That was in the--
    three sisters was married.
    It was more than good friends.
    One brother was--
    I remember the last time.
    He was in 1901.
    He was the man what arranged everything to do it
    with all what we had it.
    And the other brother was at 1904.
    And I was the youngest in 1909, [INAUDIBLE]..
    So you went to the school.
    And then you said you went to gymnasium.
    To gymnasium, yeah.
    We had a gymnasium at Kazimierza Wielka, too.
    Also.
    You went in Kraków.
    I was-- I went to Kraków later, the last two years,
    before I finished matura.
    OK.
    What was the Jewish community like?
    It was a very small Jewish--
    For what, in Kraków?
    No, no, in your town.
    Not too much.
    It was very small.
    Small.
    Small.
    You said 200 people.
    200 families.
    I don't know even how many--
    200 families.
    --families.
    Yeah.
    There was a cheder, but you had--
    There was a cheder.
    But we went only private.
    You had private--
    Yeah.
    And the other children went to the cheder?
    No.
    My brother?
    No, no, the other children, the other Jewish families.
    It was cheder.
    Yes, it was cheder.
    We had a synagogue.
    It was cheder.
    A little anti-Semitic.
    It was in a small place.
    But in Kraków, we didn't feel nothing, like Israel.
    Right.
    Yeah.
    I was going to ask you, in your town, what the relationship was
    like between the Jewish--
    With the gentile, very good.
    It was very good.
    Very good.
    Of course, when some president in Poland
    passed away and come a new president,
    they went to the stores and took away materials,
    but not killing.
    And two days was, everything, quiet.
    Yeah.
    It was anti-Semitic, but we didn't feel the anti-Semitic.
    Maybe some people, yes, but we didn't feel it,
    because a lot of people make a living from us.
    Yeah.
    Who were your friends?
    Were your friends Jewish?
    Were they not Jewish--
    We had Jewish friends.
    --from school?
    In school, all the time, mixing.
    When I wasn't at home, at the public school,
    it was Gentile and Jewish.
    And it incorporated very good.
    In gymnasium, the same.
    It was a co-ed.
    Some days was, together, boys and girls.
    A little later, when I went to Kraków,
    it was complete separate, girls separate and boys separate.
    There was a shul in your town?
    There was a shul in our town.
    Of course, there was a shul.
    It was orthodox people, religious people.
    One was not a full, was not conservative-- orthodox,
    one way.
    Right.
    There was only one--
    One shul.
    One shul for the town.
    One shul in the town.
    Some people, very Orthodox, made a private meeting
    at home, but only in the high holidays.
    Yeah.
    Hasidim?
    Hasidim, more-- you know about Hasidim?
    They make a meal from 10,000 people in a place by themself.
    All kind-- you know, all kind.
    Hasidim sometime has different ideas.
    Everybody's a Hasid in their own different way.
    All different way, yes.
    I was living there with the neighbors.
    We have gentile neighbors.
    We went to school with the gentiles.
    Matter of fact, when I was living in Kraków,
    I have a friend.
    We went together in gymnasium.
    And he went-- a little later, he went in Kraków.
    He was-- at the university, he had the [INAUDIBLE]..
    He had [INAUDIBLE].
    And he came to us visiting.
    One day, he came to me and said, oh, Salcia--
    Sally, Polish-- I had such a good day today.
    Oh, why was it a good day to you?
    I hit so many Jewish people today.
    I said, you hit Jewish people today, and you're coming to me,
    and you're telling?
    Please-- I opened the door-- go on from here.
    I don't want to see you anymore.
    What kind of friend you are?
    I'm a Jewish girl, I told him.
    After this, he didn't never showed up.
    But he knew, of course, that you were Jewish before.
    Beg your pardon?
    He knew that you were Jewish before.
    Of course.
    We was living in the same sub town.
    How old were you when this happened,
    when he came over and told you this story?
    Oh, he was, at this time, 20, 21.
    He was at university.
    And you were how old?
    I was married at this time, 22.
    I married at 22 years old.
    And he can visit me in the house, brought
    a very nice box of candy, and start to talk what he did it.
    I say, if you did it, and you're coming to me--
    I opened the door.
    My husband was sitting.
    Out from my house.
    No more coming again.
    It was a good friend of me.
    You see this?
    It's anti-Semitic.
    This shows a gentile.
    What year did you go to gymnasium?
    Do you remember?
    Yeah.
    When I went--
    Seventh grade.
    --seventh grade, I was 12 years old, 13 years maybe.
    A little later, we went to first class of gymnasium
    in Kazimierza.
    So you--
    And I finished six classes a little later, then to Kraków.
    So about in 1922.
    1922.
    I married in 1931.
    This was before.
    Two years, I finished school.
    OK.
    But approximately, if you were in the seventh grade,
    you went to Kraków.
    No.
    No.
    Seventh grade, I went-- we had, for us, a gymnasium.
    Right.
    But a little later, my mother changes.
    Maybe over there is better company, different.
    And we change to Kraków.
    And I was in Kraków.
    Two years I went.
    Oh, so your last two years of school--
    Last two years of school.
    --you were in Kraków.
    Kraków, yeah.
    OK.
    When you went to Kraków to school for those last two
    years, you lived there in the school in a dormitory?
    No.
    The whole family went to Kraków?
    No, no, no, not the whole family--
    but friends, but friends.
    I have girlfriends from my house.
    Every Shabbos, we went--
    I went home just a few days.
    So you went there.
    And then every weekend, you came home.
    We came home, yes.
    You took the train.
    OK, so you finished gymnasium in what year?
    That's all, no more.
    You finished school in--
    1930, 1929 maybe-- so long, I really don't remember.
    I have no documents, because everything took away from us.
    If I am not American, nothing where I was born.
    And your experiences in the gymnasium were very nice.
    Very nice.
    Social life was very nice.
    A little later, I had a friends, my cousin.
    She had a boyfriend, how we come to my husband.
    She had a boyfriend from Kraków.
    And I went with her.
    And he introduced my husband.
    He comes to me every week at home.
    And he is-- oh, OK.
    And we get married in 1931.
    You get married in 1931.
    1931, 1939?
    Yeah, 53 years, I've been married.
    OK.
    That's wonderful.
    53 years.
    So how long did you know your husband before you got married?
    Oh, about a year and a half maybe, no longer.
    A long time.
    Yeah.
    This is long this time.
    I was young.
    He was young at this time.
    We had time.
    So actually, you got married a few years
    after you finished gymnasium.
    Yeah, for another few years.
    I married in 1930, and I finished gymnasium in 1928.
    OK.
    That's right.
    Doctor, maybe--
    No, no, this is--
    Maybe at that time, I'm a year older, or a year younger.
    I don't remember--
    sure.
    --exactly what this is.
    No, of course.
    We had five paper.
    Now we have nothing to show, nothing papers.
    We're not finding nothing yet.
    Did you stay-- after you finished gymnasium,
    did you stay in Kraków?
    Or did you go back to--
    No, I'm back home.
    You went back home.
    I stayed in Kraków since I married.
    Yes.
    OK.
    We went home.
    Where did you get married?
    Did you get married in Kraków?
    I get married in 1930.
    Where?
    In home.
    In the town.
    In the town where I live.
    Yeah.
    Do you remember your wedding?
    Oh, yes.
    It as a very nice wedding.
    We had a lot of people, our family.
    My family was maybe about 30 people, own family-- sisters,
    brothers, uncle, nieces, nephews.
    And now, I'm alone, only two nephews.
    And what you can do?
    You have to be happy that, thank God, my husband is alive.
    And that's all.
    And matter of fact, I never dream about this.
    Two years ago, we had our 50th anniversary.
    50th.
    Yeah.
    And doctor, this is unusually after such a war.
    We cannot find the first couples before they war get married.
    True.
    Yeah.
    Just out of interest, did you get married in the shul?
    No.
    We get in a hall.
    We had a hall.
    We had a hall of tremendous-- like here in a hotel.
    They cater it, and everything.
    It was a very rich wedding.
    After you got married, you moved to--
    We went right away to Kraków.
    --Kraków.
    Yeah.
    And what business did your husband go into?
    My husband, before, he was in manufacturing business,
    wholesale.
    A little later, he met with one woman, Mrs. , Mr. Huckerman.
    Matter of fact, this couple also survived the war.
    And he made a factory for metal, a metal factory.
    And we had a very nice living.
    Matter of fact, in Poland, there's
    only two factories was for metal.
    One factory was in Warsaw.
    You know about Warsaw.
    And ours was [NON-ENGLISH] metal.
    And these people also survived.
    And I had two children.
    Could you tell me a little bit--
    About what?
    --a little bit about life in Kraków after you got married?
    After I got married, we had a very nice life.
    We lived in a nice apartment over there.
    And my husband did good business, thank God.
    I had a maid that stayed there.
    And it as very nice.
    I had friends, a lot of friends.
    We went out.
    We had a good time.
    We enjoyed-- summertime, we went on vacation to the nice hotels.
    Some went to the bungalow.
    You took a maid with you.
    You know, we was ladies.
    And what was the Jewish community like in Kraków?
    In Kraków, it was 70,000, 80,000 Jewish people.
    There was a lot of--
    very elegant, very nice.
    It was also-- it was orthodox, and one temple.
    It was only-- not reformed.
    They're conservative, nothing else.
    And the people-- only special people
    want to believe in conservative [INAUDIBLE]..
    But mostly, Krakóws are only orthodox people.
    Shabbos was terrible.
    People were dressed up with the [INAUDIBLE]..
    You know, a [INAUDIBLE],, silk packages,
    and walking, and going for a walk.
    It was complete different.
    It was a very social life.
    We miss this.
    Only, we don't miss this.
    Sure.
    And I miss very much my home, my family.
    But you have to live. you have to get used to this.
    Were you involved in any Jewish organizations in Kraków?
    At home?
    Yes.
    For us, we're Jewish National Fund.
    I was involved.
    We maked parties, raised money.
    And [INAUDIBLE],, if it was something in a day,
    we make such a small blue and white.
    And we say in the streets.
    We had the police give us--
    we can do this.
    We raised money with boxes.
    And was this--
    We belonged to organizations, Zionistic organizations.
    We have leaders.
    We sent money.
    People went to Israel by donates of land.
    Oh, yeah, we was very involved, not like here.
    We didn't have UJA.
    We didn't have Israel bond.
    But we had--
    Jewish National Fund, we had and Zionist organization.
    Every house had a box at home.
    Every month, we went to pick up the money from the boxes,
    like here now.
    But they have a different way.
    Was there any conflict, tension, between the--
    Parents and the children?
    No, no, between the ones who were involved in Zionism,
    Jewish National Fund, and--
    Yeah.
    One time, there was a-- not a fight.
    One say this.
    And you had [INAUDIBLE].
    Some-- yeah, Agudah was separate, not with us.
    Agudah didn't believe in Zionistic too much.
    And sometimes, we had discussions.
    Sometimes somebody have this, we didn't like this.
    But we had an organization.
    We had nice leaders.
    They know Hebrew perfect.
    And have all the songs about the singing, and dancing,
    and everything, the whole--
    not here, now.
    I can tell you, States is a gorgeous country, beautiful.
    But we had at home a very nice life.
    I can never forget this life.
    That's wonderful.
    Yeah.
    You mentioned before that you had two children.
    Before I married, I would-- after I married,
    I moved to Kraków.
    And I was born a girl in 1932, and a boy in 1937.
    Yes.
    Matter of fact, in 1949 when the war started--
    June, July, and August--
    we rented a bungalow.
    We went outside in a nice place in the mountains.
    And we was over there.
    My husband came home two days before the war started.
    The war started in September the 2nd, 1939.
    And we had trouble to get home, but he went home.
    Let me take you back just a few more years.
    Yeah.
    Your daughter was born in 1932.
    And then you had a boy in--
    And my son born 1937.
    --1937.
    OK.
    Did they go to--
    My daughter went to school.
    Your daughter went to school.
    To school, but she was a young child, eight years.
    She went for seven years at a public school.
    My son didn't go to school, because he was young.
    This is the way.
    You say, when the war broke out in 1939,
    you were at a bungalow--
    When the war--
    June, July, and August, we rented a bungalow.
    We went with the family.
    Every summer?
    Every summer.
    And we went even, matter of fact,
    with our partners, Mr. and Mrs. Huckerman.
    We went together.
    All of a sudden, my husband says--
    he went home, so he have to take a look what's
    going on in the factory.
    He went home a few days before.
    A little later, all over a war, start a war.
    And you want to go home.
    The trains didn't took you.
    You follow me?
    We rented wagons with horses, and we went home.
    Let me ask you--
    Yeah.
    Not to interrupt you, but between,
    let's say, 1933 and 1939--
    Oh, yes.
    It was quiet.
    It was a nice, quiet life.
    Well, were there any different laws passed in the town against
    [INAUDIBLE], against--
    There was some time in--
    Did you feel--
    I didn't feel any--
    --any anti-Semitism between 1933--
    I didn't feel it.
    --and 1939?
    We was living in a very beautiful section
    with Jewish people.
    You did everybody what wants to do it.
    I didn't feel the anti-Semitic so much in Kraków.
    Even in Kazimierza, when I was younger, I didn't feel either.
    But--
    But you knew that--
    But I will tell you later, when the war started,
    I had a sister.
    She was also living in Kazimierza, very good off.
    And the Gentiles came in to buy her material,
    because the factory was intelligent people,
    was director, was [POLISH word]
    You know what I mean, a [POLISH word]?
    A sir, or a [INAUDIBLE] there.
    And everybody bought by her.
    She had the best quality for material.
    When the war started, came to her two people.
    She was Mrs. Doula.
    If you want to live, I say, Hitler is not good for you.
    Come on, take the material to us.
    Take everything, what you want.
    And we hide you till the war is finished.
    And my sister believe it, because they
    was good friends that buy it.
    And it was eight days, took us to carry
    the materials to this lady.
    A little later, it was terrible in this Kazimierza.
    They take away the Jewish people.
    They're sending here.
    They're sending here.
    The Polish people came and picked up all my sisters
    with her husband and three children.
    One boy was killed in the army.
    He was in the Polish army.
    And he said, Mrs. Doula, we will hide you,
    and you will survive the war.
    She survived three days.
    After they had all the material, they
    had all the silver, the gold, what she has with her dresses,
    with everything, she called SS.
    Come on, I have your Jewish people.
    And everybody was shot like nothing.
    This is anti-Semitic.
    You follow me?
    For [INAUDIBLE],, they did everything.
    Then there was the poor.
    They will not kill, because they have the rich.
    They want to take away everything.
    A neighbor came to me.
    He survived.
    He was in the forest.
    He passed this street in this place.
    He knew my sister.
    And he tell me-- after the war, I met him.
    He said, your sister was killed like the dogs.
    This is anti-Semitic.
    When they lived, not anti-Semitism, what's going on.
    It was-- more people survived.
    We had Jewish people who were also kapo mans.
    And they picked up the Jewish people.
    And they went of the SS man and told,
    because this man believed, if he would do everything what the SS
    man told him, he will survive.
    But it was a very big mistake.
    He didn't survive.
    He was shot a little later like everybody.
    This was the very bad living by Hitler, very.
    A little later, my children--
    Did you know, between these years, 1933 and '39--
    did you know what was happening in Germany, for example?
    Yes.
    We didn't believe it.
    I had a nice apartment in Kraków.
    I explained it-- two bedroom, dining room, living,
    everything.
    And they came [INAUDIBLE],, the Jewish people--
    from Germany, people.
    Hitler, when he start to be the leader,
    these Jewish people was born in Germany.
    There, they shoot-- they was living German.
    But a lot of people were born in Poland and settled in Germany.
    He throwed them out.
    Like we came from Poland, we live now in America,
    he throwed them out.
    When they came to Kraków, they didn't know where to go.
    There was a big Jewish community.
    And the Jewish community gave a couple to these people,
    to these people.
    He called up.
    You have a nice apartment, I know.
    You have to take these and these people.
    You have to take these people.
    We took in.
    I had a couple.
    I had one couple with a child and with a sister,
    with one sister.
    And they came to us.
    I gave them where to sleep, and everything toe at.
    And she said, Mrs. Levenstein, when you are smarter,
    run away all over where you want to run around,
    because you don't have idea what the SS man, what German people,
    do.
    They cut the breasts from the people.
    They're taking away all the fortune.
    They take all the money, take the--
    we didn't believe it.
    I said, this is true?
    Is this true?
    We didn't believe it.
    We were sitting, again, in this Kraków.
    My husband was working in the factory.
    Even the German came in.
    We didn't believe it.
    But a few years later, he showed up what he can.
    He throw out the people from the factory.
    He took away everything, what you had--
    your clothes, watches, jewelry.
    And one time, he came in, in the house.
    It was not ghetto.
    And we say, nobody goes out.
    I took my children by hand, and holding their hand.
    And took away everything, what was in the house.
    You stay in a robe, you live in a robe.
    You stay in a dressed up, you live in a dressed up.
    This was do in 1941.
    We started in 1940.
    Till '41, we didn't--
    they do everything, business, and factory.
    Nobody believes that it can be something happen.
    A little later--
    This incident that you described with your sister
    where they were supposed to be saved by that family,
    and then they were killed after three days--
    My sisters came later to us when I was in the ghetto.
    They still was in Kazimierza.
    No, no, no, the incident when you
    were telling me that your sister and her husband--
    My sister was-- well, I never saw her.
    Now, the ones-- your sister--
    Never saw her, because I was living in Kraków at this time.
    She was in Kazimierza.
    When the war started, she was in Kazimierza.
    I was not this time.
    Right.
    But when they were killed, you said, after three days--
    They was killed.
    I didn't see them.
    No, I understand.
    A friend tell us this.
    Yeah, I was just wondering.
    That was in 1941?
    No, this was after the war.
    After, completely, when I met this man in 1945, after the war
    was finished.
    That's when you found out about it.
    Find out about this.
    I know.
    And--
    Before, I didn't know nothing, what's going on.
    Yeah.
    Do you know what year they were killed?
    They was killed in--
    they went in 1940.
    And they was killed in three days later how they settle.
    This man tell me that.
    And this man is still alive.
    He lives in someplace north, Lakewood.
    And this man told me this story about this.
    Can we go back?
    You said that, for the summers, you used to go--
    On vacations.
    --on vacations, June, July, and August.
    And you said that your husband--
    My husband--
    --went back to Kraków.
    --just went back to Kraków a few days before the war started.
    [INAUDIBLE],, we have to change the men.
    Huckerman was spending this weekend, and he went home.
    And the war was-- when it started, he came back,
    and Huckerman goes home to take, because we
    left only strange people.
    And so what--
    He came only for the weekend.
    What happened when he--
    No, he wasn't happy.
    He was waiting till we come back.
    And after, the men start to run away.
    You follow me?
    Because what the people are saying--
    they're taking the men, et cetera, et cetera.
    But a little later, [INAUDIBLE].
    They came back to Kraków.
    Maybe my husband mentioned it.
    Maybe he forgot about this, to mention it.
    A little later, we went to the ghettos.
    You could take your furniture.
    You could take nothing else.
    Which ghetto?
    You went to the ghetto in--
    The ghetto Kraków.
    --Kraków?
    Yeah, this was possible.
    And I had the children at home.
    And I went to work.
    I went up in the morning, come home in the evening.
    And my husband didn't work in his own factory,
    because the factory took over--
    the government, the German, took over.
    And they have different people to work.
    And he was working someplace else.
    And I was working in a place where making stockings
    for the soldiers.
    Can you describe what life was like in the ghetto?
    There was no good life--
    10,000.
    We had to eat.
    We had it, because I had a--
    we had a superintendent where she takes open the factory,
    close the factory.
    She brought me in food, because we had--
    money was not object.
    We had plenty of money.
    You follow me.
    But you could not--
    people was bringing from other places, was stolen so --
    In the ghetto, it was not so bad.
    But a little later, they started, the ghetto,
    to make it smaller.
    They arranged all over and the SS man is coming,
    and taking away so many people, send away.
    And these people, they never came back.
    And all the time, they make selected.
    You know what selected.
    Always, they're taking people from the--
    who lived in the ghettos.
    Everybody has to go together outside,
    and taking away 500, 600, 700.
    Usually, every month, something else.
    The selection was made.
    You had a Judenrat Jewish council in the ghetto?
    Yes, we had.
    But it could nothing do it.
    But a little later, a lot of Jewish
    became the police for the German.
    They came by the police.
    And this was kapos.
    And that was no good, either.
    We have to hide in the--
    we have to watch these people, too.
    What kind of feelings did you have--
    Very bad feel.
    --feelings toward the Jewish policemen, the--
    The Jewish policemen--
    --the Judenrat?
    --they wanted-- the Judenrat was good.
    The other wants to help it.
    But the police, the Jewish, was terrible.
    They want to show up to the gentleman
    that they're bringing a lot of people who were hiding,
    they're bringing a lot of people who
    had a business doing something.
    There, it was very-- some people was good,
    some people was bad, now, usually.
    But everybody knows that they do nothing.
    We didn't have [INAUDIBLE].
    We didn't have-- my husband didn't
    own business, nothing, just went to work.
    I went to work.
    Now, during these years when you were living in the ghetto,
    how many families were you living with?
    I was living with my partner, Mrs. Huckerman.
    A little later, we came and took--
    I went way.
    In the same Apartment?
    In the same apartment.
    She had a room, and I had a room in the kitchen together.
    A little later, they came.
    It get smaller, smaller.
    They took away another.
    And they put a doctor to my apartment.
    And I went to the kitchen.
    You follow me?
    The whole family went into the kitchen.
    All people went to the kitchen.
    A little later, my people--
    my friends, my brother, my sister-in-law--
    came from Kazimierza Wielka, come to us, to Kraków.
    And we was sleeping together on the floor after that.
    We squeezed it.
    A little later, they was calling to go and make
    concentration camps.
    And I was working.
    You know concentration camps.
    And everybody has to go out from the ghetto.
    This was Plaszów.
    What year was that?
    This was in year 1943--
    no, 1942, maybe '43.
    Maybe, exactly, I cannot exactly say exactly the year.
    And I was working--
    I just wanted to ask you one other question about when
    you were living in the ghetto.
    Yeah.
    What kind of work were you doing?
    You were working--
    When I was living in the ghetto, I was working in a factory.
    I was making stockings for the soldiers.
    The factory was outside of the ghetto.
    Outside the ghetto, but not far.
    Somebody was standing guard at the entrance to the ghetto?
    The guard, the SS man is.
    We work every day.
    In the morning, we have to go to work.
    If not going to rock, is no good.
    And every day, we came home.
    But the last time, I remember like now.
    A doctor was living by us, with us together.
    He said, Mrs. Levenstein, I heard tomorrow
    you will have nothing.
    All non-Jews supposed to be in the ghetto.
    If we find a Jew in the ghetto, we will kill.
    It has to be complete Judenrein.
    And I said, what do I have to do with my children?
    Finally, he said idea.
    My husband, with the other partner, had an idea.
    We make to hiding five floors down, gone five floors then.
    He prepared this.
    And Friday morning, I remember that now, I
    went to the factory.
    And a little later, five people went in there.
    We went-- here, SS man, here, SS man.
    Something, but not for everybody.
    Every three or five SS man.
    And I see that we're not going to the ghettos.
    And I saw, oh, something is cooking here.
    And I was very sure--
    I don't know about sure or not sure.
    I was lucky.
    But I go in between the five people together.
    I looked down.
    And I said, let me down, let me down, let me down.
    And I came to the end.
    And I have the courage to do it, because I was young.
    I runned away from the SS man so much I don't know how I have
    [INAUDIBLE].
    And I saw somebody runs after me.
    But I went to the ghetto, because it was not far,
    the ghetto.
    And I went in the house where three streets entrance.
    You understand what this is?
    And I was hiding behind some place.
    And he didn't find me.
    I was sitting half an hour.
    After a half an hour, I was afraid to go out
    from this building.
    Meantime, I just go--
    one was to go to the ghetto.
    And two entrance was to go to outside,
    where not the ghetto was.
    And I went for outside.
    And I went up to a gentile.
    And I said--
    Polish, he spoke perfect.
    He didn't spoke Yiddish, only Polish.
    And I said, I maked a mistake.
    I want to go here and here, and I meant I came to you.
    And she said, oh, yes, come on, you can sit here.
    I said, come on, show me where this is, because I don't know.
    I get mixed up.
    I don't know where to get here.
    She went with me.
    She went with me.
    I should pass the ghetto.
    I ran home.
    And I was pain.
    My heart was beating.
    I said, Isak, it's no good.
    Tomorrow is Judenrein.
    I saw they're taking the children.
    What are they doing with the children?
    But some people had children.
    They take away the children.
    And what are they doing with the children?
    He said, don't worry.
    I had a bunker prepared by Dr. Schlenger.
    He was Schlenger.
    I remember that now.
    He told me this to do, and I did it.
    You can imagine.
    In the morning, 6 o'clock, Saturday
    the morning, Judenrein was all written.
    If you find one Jew, we kill them.
    You know why I did it?
    Let me ask you a question.
    How many Jews were left in the ghetto
    that Friday, in other words that day before the ghetto was--
    It was a couple hundred Jews.
    It was-- I cannot say exactly how many population was.
    No, I understand, of course.
    But it was a lot of streets.
    The ghetto could be about 2,000 people, maybe more.
    So when the ghetto was first opened,
    there must have been how many people in the ghetto?
    When they open the ghetto?
    First opened.
    First opened from us, from Kraków,
    it was maybe 1,500 people, maybe 2,000, maybe more.
    I don't know exactly.
    They took all the-- and this was from Kraków out.
    It was [INAUDIBLE].
    You know, Kraków and [INAUDIBLE],, you can say--
    you have this-- they threw a bridge to go through.
    they divided, the water divided.
    This was [INAUDIBLE].
    This made the ghetto over there.
    I don't know exactly.
    But it was maybe about 2,000 or 3,000 people.
    But it was not so less, [INAUDIBLE]..
    But all the time, they send out people,
    because they took only three or four streets.
    And you knew, of course, every time somebody was
    being sent out of the ghetto.
    Oh, yeah, we knew it, because we had blue [INAUDIBLE] cards.
    We supposed to stay, because we have business.
    Other people supposed to--
    I'm sorry.
    You had what kind of card?
    They gave you a card.
    You're allowed to stay in the ghetto,
    because we have occupied their business.
    Other people didn't have nothing.
    They sent out.
    It was a little later, after the [INAUDIBLE] cards,
    it was a yellow card, they give blue cards,
    smaller, the less card.
    We can't stay in the ghetto.
    But come a time, when 1942, nobody
    could stay in the ghetto.
    Everybody goes to a concentration camp.
    It was Plaszów.
    The Judenrat handed out these cards, didn't they?
    No, not the Judenrat.
    Maybe they give to the Judenrat to do with this.
    Right.
    Yeah.
    But we were sitting outside, complete outside,
    like in Auschwitz, outside in a big city, Kraków.
    The ghetto was-- in the middle was, all around, houses.
    And this was an empty place.
    Could stay, maybe, 3,000, 4,000 people.
    And he calls somebody's name.
    You can stay.
    Another goes away.
    Did people pay money--
    Nobody knew it.
    No.
    Did people pay money to the Judenrat to--
    Somebody, maybe they paid.
    We didn't pay money.
    I cannot say what people did it.
    We didn't pay money, because we was [NON-ENGLISH],,
    because they need our [INAUDIBLE]..
    But only this, when we went to a concentration camp,
    my husband was throw out from this.
    And different working people was working.
    I don't know if my husband mentioned this.
    It's not such a good talk.
    Your husband's a wonderful man.
    Thank you.
    Yeah.
    I don't have to tell you.
    Yeah.
    I lived 53 years with him.
    I [INAUDIBLE].
    A little later--
    Let me just ask you one other thing, if I could.
    You came back.
    And you said, Isak--
    Isak, it's no good.
    --tomorrow--
    Tomorrow will be Judenrein.
    --was Judenrein.
    Everybody have to go.
    What are we doing with the children?
    So what did you do?
    [INAUDIBLE],, I put [? electric ?] down,
    five, six floor down lower, to the bunker.
    And I took down quilts, covers.
    And I took down, what I have, food in my house.
    Was this beneath the building?
    Building.
    No, no.
    I was living on the first floor.
    And this was three floors down.
    And nobody could see it, because it was only
    from the toilet you have to go down.
    How long did it take your husband then--
    To make it?
    --to make it?
    Three days.
    He prepared before I said.
    He prepared before, because we know
    that something will happen.
    Let this be.
    You follow me?
    And Saturday morning, I went down with my children.
    And I took-- matter of fact, Maury Ponteera
    has two brothers with one sister.
    She had no place where to go.
    She stays with me, mostly.
    And when I went down to the bunker, I took these children.
    And I took my children, too.
    And my sister, she said she don't want to go without me.
    What will be with me will be with her.
    She went down with me, too.
    Let me ask you.
    The rest of your family--
    Went to concentration camps, to Plaszów.
    The rest of the family, who was over, they went to Plaszów.
    Went to Plaszów, my husband, and--
    No, before, before this time--
    your sisters, and your brothers.
    My sisters and brothers, they came to the ghettos.
    They were not in the same ghetto as you were.
    No, they was in Kraków ghetto, because Kraków to Kazimierza
    was very close, like it was one.
    They came to ghettos, too, and they was living in the ghettos.
    Did you have any communication between--
    Yes, we can go around to the other place.
    In Plaszów, in the ghetto, you can walk.
    You can go all over around.
    You can walk.
    Everything, you can do like normal.
    But we could not go out, because the SS man was outside.
    Nobody is to go out.
    But you had brothers and sisters in the other ghetto.
    I have, in the ghetto, only one brother.
    In your area.
    Yeah.
    One brother was in the ghetto, and two sisters, nobody else.
    Everybody was sent away to separate, different places.
    Before the ghetto came, they sent away from Kazimierza.
    They made it complete Judenrein.
    Somebody was killed.
    Somebody was different.
    Somebody was working in other places where the Germans sent--
    only two sisters, and one brother-in-law,
    and one brother.
    And everybody went away to Plaszów,
    the concentration camp.
    Before Plaszów, you went down into the--
    I went down to the bunker.
    You said, with your two children.
    I and my two children and my--
    Isak?
    No, Isak went to the ghetto, to the concentration camp.
    And Isak was over the--
    was not here.
    Isak went to concentration camps.
    Saturday morning--
    Saturday morning.
    --we went out from the house.
    But on Saturday morning, about 6 o'clock--
    I remember that now--
    I took my two children down.
    My sister went down and took them, my nephews, two brothers
    and one sister.
    We went down to the bunker.
    We closed it covered.
    And my husband went away.
    You can imagine what kind of feeling.
    He went away, and I left here.
    And I heard that, in the morning, they came to my house
    with the feet like this, the SS man.
    [NON-ENGLISH].
    They went to this room.
    They went this room.
    We weren't here.
    And outside, I was hearing, [NON-ENGLISH]..
    He is screaming.
    And believe me, I was sitting in the corner holding my children,
    because I was afraid, maybe they are coming to us.
    We were sitting so almost maybe 10 days.
    My husband said, you make to make a name in case my husband
    come into the bunker.
    Say, example, [NON-ENGLISH].
    I say, I'm alive.
    If I am not alive, I don't answer nothing.
    One time, my food is finished completely.
    Mommy, I'm hungry.
    Mommy, they start to fainting.
    I say, well, I have to do it.
    I'm alone, no place where to go.
    You know, I did it.
    3 o'clock, maybe 2 o'clock in the morning.
    I said to my sister, you stay here.
    I open the bunker.
    I was living in a six-floor apartment.
    And I took a small candle, and I went.
    I said, if they kill me, they kill me.
    I don't care.
    Anyway, they're dead.
    Will be, by us.
    We cannot finish them like this.
    And I went room to room, 2:30 in the night--
    I can never forget this--
    with a candle.
    And I picked up a apron and what somebody left in the house.
    I took everything in my apron--
    a little carrots, a little bread, hard bread,
    but something bread.
    I found here an apple.
    And I came down.
    I came down to the bunker.
    And I said, children, don't cry, I have food for you.
    And I start to give them to eat, to give them a little water.
    And three days later, my husband comes,
    because he maked up if he can go to the SS man and tell them.
    But somebody complains in the factory.
    They came to my husband, to Plaszów,
    and complained that there's not enough material making.
    So he said, so if you give me two SS mans,
    and they give me two Jewish kapo mans, I have in my house--
    in the ghetto, I have a tremendous, big machine.
    And this machine, I will bring to the factory.
    We can make the material how much you want.
    And to the Jewish other man, my husband said,
    I don't go for the machine.
    Listen, I'll give you 500 zlotys, like $500.
    And shut your mouth, and don't say.
    If you say, I have no machine, I have something else,
    you have children, you get shot, and I get shot,
    and children get shot.
    He promised by God he will not say nothing.
    He came, my husband.
    He knocked.
    And he say, [NON-ENGLISH].
    I say, I'm alive.
    My husband's friend-- the SS man's outside,
    and the Jewish police was inside.
    And the SS man said--
    he was going back and forth, smoking cigarettes.
    I don't know what they do.
    And I went up.
    We took all the quilts, what I have it.
    I put, because other man's children
    was in the concentration camp, free.
    And we said, we cannot live like this, because anyway will die.
    He tried.
    He went to the other man, to the oldest.
    And I said, I'll bring my children.
    You will keep them.
    I said, Levenstein-- they know us, everybody.
    Bring the children.
    We will keep them.
    We will not kill them.
    We will not send them back.
    We took quilts.
    We took pillows behind the box.
    I'm sorry, I-- one thing, I didn't understand.
    I'm sorry.
    Who said this about your children?
    The oldest man, what was in the concentration camp in Plaszów,
    in the Jewish police.
    He said?
    He said, bring the children.
    They can stay.
    But nobody else knew that--
    Nobody else knew, only him.
    Nobody knew, because he said, how you will bring them?
    My husband told the story.
    I have a lie.
    I have a machine, not to--
    I understand.
    --bring the machine.
    So Isak, your husband, was in--
    My husband came after a week, maybe after 12 day.
    He came, and knocked and said the [INAUDIBLE] word.
    I said, I'm alive.
    And he said, fast, we have to do it fast.
    He took a big box, because he brought a box from Plaszów,
    from the concentration camp.
    We took quilts.
    We took covers, pillows, and we closed our mouths
    with a kerchief.
    My daughter, she was a girl for eight, nine years.
    She said, listen, if you need something to do, do it here.
    Don't call Daddy, don't call Mommy,
    because everybody gets killed.
    She understood.
    And to the little boy, we said the same.
    And I had a number to go out to walk to my place.
    So when my husband went away with the children,
    took me a Jewish policeman to the factory.
    And I went free.
    I was free.
    The children were hidden in boxes
    The children went away with my husband, with the SS man,
    with the to other mans.
    And one other man, before he went away,
    the SS man took me to the factory.
    The factory was three minutes to go over.
    And I came over there to the factory.
    And the man said--
    Mr. [PERSONAL NAME] the oldest one,
    he said my God, how you come here?
    You was on the list to go home today.
    You follow me?
    Because went out 500 women to the concentration camp.
    You have at list.
    500 went out, and 500 has to come back.
    If not, the ones not come back, he is responsible for.
    Where is the lady?
    You follow me?
    I don't know if you can understand what I mean.
    It's this way.
    No, I understand.
    I just want to make sure I understand one point.
    Yeah.
    Your children went with your husband.
    Your children were hidden.
    The children, with my husband, concentration camp.
    They went.
    And the name of the concentration camp they
    went to--
    And I didn't know nothing.
    Did they survive?
    Nothing.
    And I went for my walk.
    I have a number on--
    To the factory.
    --to walk to the factory.
    But now you had not been in that factory for 10 days.
    I was not in the factory 10 days.
    That's right.
    But he took me back.
    But he knows me.
    He took me back.
    But I was not on the list to go back to the concentration camp,
    because he had so many, so many men.
    He said, Mrs. Levenstein, I will leave you here
    in this building, but not with the machinery.
    But I will leave you upstairs, because none SS man comes
    upstairs, because if comes the SS man,
    what are you doing here?
    I'm hiding.
    You follow me?
    And he went home with his people where he had the list.
    And I was standing over there, one person,
    alone in a tremendous roof, on the other attic,
    maybe three times bigger like this room.
    And I saw, 8 o'clock in the morning, nobody's here.
    I say, I'm finished.
    I'm finished, finished.
    The people didn't come back.
    Who knows what's happening in the ghetto?
    It happened, because nobody went out to work.
    It took away from people where they
    have dresses, what they have again jewelry, something.
    It was everybody till 5:00.
    Everybody was sitting in the block.
    And the SS man's with everybody what they have.
    No?
    I didn't know about it.
    I was sure this is the end of my life, the end.
    Nobody will come back.
    Next thing, in the morning, he comes back.
    And he opened the-- is you alive?
    I say, I'm alive, but almost--
    what do I have to do, to jump down from the roof?
    He told me this.
    Now I have you on the list.
    I have you on the list, because I have--
    I'll die, this, this.
    And I have you on the list.
    And I went home to the concentration camp
    with everybody.
    And everybody came, has a list where to live.
    Not everybody can go in one building.
    I had a list to live in bunk, bunk 11.
    And the name was--
    the leader from the bunk was Mrs. Manci Rosner.
    I never knew her.
    I never knew her.
    And I came.
    I introduced myself.
    And I said, oh, Mrs. Levenstein?
    Yes, I know you.
    I just said, maybe you know me, but I don't know you.
    And I said, Manci.
    She had a son for 10 years old.
    And her son was free.
    But her husband was working by the oldest men in Plaszów.
    And he was a violin player.
    And he a player, they give you son.
    You can have the son by you.
    He said, Mrs. Levenstein, what do you want to do?
    Your husband was here.
    He told me you have two children,
    but they're still not here.
    He's hiding in my husband's block.
    He took a risk.
    The children could be killed.
    And my husband could kill.
    But he said, I have nothing to lose.
    If I don't have-- the children get killed,
    I want to be killed, too.
    I came over there.
    It was 6 o'clock.
    And I explained.
    I talked with her.
    She said, oh, I see you are so nervous.
    I say, of course nervous, because I don't know what
    is going on with my children.
    She said, I'm going to bring your children.
    She brought my children.
    And there was bridges-- one floor,
    second floor, the third floor.
    She said, I give you on the third floor.
    And you're going out.
    You put the quilt. You put the pillow.
    Nobody's on the bridge, on this barrack.
    But every day, in the morning, we went out 6 o'clock.
    And every day, in the morning, came the SS man.
    And I salute, heil Hitler.
    Everybody went to work.
    Nobody's sick.
    If sick people, she has to go and call up.
    She has sick people.
    You have to take to the hospital.
    And she kept my children 14, 16 months.
    The children were living in the same bunk with you?
    In the same bunk with me.
    We were sleeping in one bunk, three people.
    And Isak was--
    Isak was the men, with the men.
    And not supposed, the men come to the women,
    the women not supposed to come to the men.
    Did you see Isak during that time?
    I saw him sometime, on the far.
    Some day, he took a risk.
    He jumped over.
    You follow me?
    He jumped over.
    He's very-- and he said, I don't care for my life.
    I care to see the children, to see you.
    And he came for 10 minutes.
    He went back.
    He was afraid.
    And this lady, Manci Rosner, she took care of my children
    14 month, and she didn't took from me one penny.
    I can say now I can give her thousands of dollars.
    She didn't took nothing.
    And she survived the war, too.
    And she-- this girl needs to have--
    I don't know what to give her, everything from now.
    She lives in [PLACE NAME],, or something, or someplace else.
    And she-- but a little later, after--
    Let me ask.
    Were there other children also being hidden in Plaszów?
    In Plaszów?
    Only the other man's children.
    Only mine children was.
    Only two children was hiding.
    Nobody knew.
    They was on the list.
    They have the children.
    You follow me?
    Lived there, one time, in the ghetto.
    They was not on the list like the other man's children
    was on the list.
    They have so many boys, so many girl.
    My children was no mention, doesn't exist.
    Did they stay the entire day upstairs [INAUDIBLE]??
    At night time, they're sleeping upstairs with me together.
    And when I went out 6 o'clock in the morning,
    6 o'clock in the morning, I made the quilt. We had--
    not the-- we had quilts, the warm quilt.
    And I covered the children and everything.
    Maybe they're opening the side to get fresh air.
    And after the SS man came, she salute them.
    Everybody went to work, no sick people.
    And a little later, he went away.
    She went, come on, children, down.
    She washed them.
    And she gave them breakfast.
    She dressed them, and everything.
    Unusually-- it's one from the millions.
    You mean it.
    She took from me five pennies, she didn't do.
    I never forget that.
    I'll always talk about this.
    I'm visiting her sometime.
    She comes sometime to me.
    We're the best friend.
    But she's not lucky.
    She has one son.
    After, the son married a Jewish girl.
    A little later, he divorced her and made her [NON-ENGLISH]..
    And she's asking me, [NON-ENGLISH]??
    You understand?
    Yeah.
    What kind of work did you do in the concentration camp?
    In the concentration camp, in Plaszów, I did still the same,
    by the same factory.
    Where I did it, it was in the ghetto,
    working by socks for the soldiers.
    You have to give so much, count again-- so
    much pair of socks I have to make in a day.
    We did it.
    There was also a Jewish [INAUDIBLE]..
    But he was not so good.
    But he didn't let nothing-- but he survived.
    A little later came a time we have to, the concentration
    camp, Plaszów, get liquidated.
    And from time to time, they're sending away people
    to Auschwitz.
    I supposed to go in August.
    My children was not there.
    One time-- listen to this, what they made it.
    In May the 14, it was Mother's Day.
    We didn't knew it, nothing.
    We was calling up everybody-- rouse, rouse from the barrack.
    And everybody will stay in a place,
    3,000 people, tremendous place.
    We didn't knew it, what's going on behind the back.
    Everybody went out, the ladies separate, the men separate.
    Put out, in all corners, machine to sing songs--
    microphones, you call this?
    Yes, microphones?
    And this time, they took away all the children,
    because make a week before, they make the children go
    to a kindergarten home, and all the people who cannot work.
    And we were sure that this will stay till the end.
    We asked him, the other man, what's going on?
    Your son is the--
    we don't know nothing.
    We don't know nothing.
    But this Sunday, in Mother's Day--
    1943?
    1943.
    All the children, all the people--
    men, and women, everyone went outside.
    He stays in five.
    The SS man run by you.
    You are a human being.
    You need to make it some day.
    But I have to go to the lady's room.
    Do it here.
    You cannot-- you're not supposed to go out for a minute.
    If you go out, we shot you.
    We were standing since 6:00 in the morning till 7 o'clock
    in the evening not move, 25,000 people.
    Matter of fact, my sister--
    one sister, just went out.
    She couldn't take it.
    She almost fainted.
    Came an SS man and give you 25.
    They have such a-- from leather, 25 on her tooshie.
    And she was so swollen she could move for three weeks.
    So he punished her, 'cause she went out for a few minutes.
    She wants to run to the lady's room.
    He said, if you make, here.
    She couldn't make it here.
    And we're here, we're here singing and singing,
    all songs from the English--
    not the English, everything Germany, Germany, German.
    Nobody know what's going on.
    You're talking to my-- the next girl says, what's going on?
    Nobody knows.
    6 o'clock, 6:30 to 7 o'clock, everybody
    went out home to the barrack.
    I ran to the kindergarten.
    My children went out--
    not my children.
    All the children went out.
    Only one boy was free.
    I told you, Manci Rosen's son, he took him back,
    because he went to him.
    He said, see, I play by you this, this, save my son.
    OK, he called him up, and he was saved.
    This was the end of concentration camp in Plaszów.
    A couple months later, I went to-- my husband
    was lucky, because he was a metal worker in this document.
    They took him to Brnenec, to him, to Schindler.
    Maury Ponteera, I don't know how he went.
    He went, too.
    Because my husband said, when he went to concentration camp,
    he made in for metal factory.
    He is also in the metal.
    He went also to Plaszów, to Brnenec.
    I went to Auschwitz, to Birkenau.
    I was such a fool for me.
    I believe it.
    If I came to Birkenau, maybe I find my children.
    You follow me?
    I came to Birkenau.
    Where are children?
    No children.
    And then, a little later, a lady in the block
    said, you want children in here?
    Children?
    It's not the place for children.
    Children-- you see the gas chamber?
    I see, over there, the children.
    Do you remember the day when you came to Auschwitz?
    When I came to Auschwitz, it was maybe
    September the 15th, the 20th, between September,
    the middle to the end.
    We came to Auschwitz, to Birkenau, first Birkenau.
    First Birkenau.
    First Birkenau.
    Oh, don't ask.
    Over there, I was dressed in a dress and everything.
    Everything, take away from you, everything.
    We came in a place.
    They take me-- the shoes, stocking, everything.
    You stand-- I am ashamed to say--
    complete nude, complete nude, like you got out the shower.
    Came Mengele in.
    Mengele is the doctor who he selected who has to go to the--
    You came to the camp in Birkenau.
    I came to Birkenau.
    Do you know how many people came with you at the time?
    Oh, yeah.
    Do you have any idea?
    We came in a train.
    And we were standing like the herring.
    Do you follow me?
    We took a couple of hours to go from Plaszów to Birkenau.
    It's not so far.
    But they're standing at every station.
    And we came.
    Ah, we catched a little breath.
    And they took us right away over there where the showers are,
    the sauna.
    The first thing, as soon as you got out the train.
    The first thing.
    We stand up from the train.
    They took us with cars--
    not with cars, no, the soldiers going.
    Let me ask you.
    When you came--
    To Birkenau.
    Yeah.
    When you came to Birkenau, you were met by soldiers.
    Were there other--
    When we came, we went down from the train.
    Right away, another SS, the soldiers.
    They take you around.
    They take you in cars, in the soldier's car they
    have, and took us to the sauna.
    What about any other prisoners who were already in the camp?
    Were they there when you arrived at the camp?
    No.
    No.
    No.
    Because in some camps--
    Some camp, a little later, they gave you a place where to go,
    the number.
    This is your place, your bed.
    You follow me?
    Yeah.
    First of all, we go into the sauna.
    We have to give the back all the luggage.
    And they take away from you everything.
    And you stay complete nude.
    We don't know where to go.
    Mengele said, right, or left.
    And we go into the place--
    So the selection by Mengele was after the showers.
    Before the showers.
    Before the showers.
    OK.
    Because when we went to the shower,
    we don't know if we're going to the shower
    or if you're going to the gas chambers.
    And we went.
    He said, right and left.
    But you knew one direction was good, and one direction was--
    We knew the one was good.
    But when we was in Plaszów, we heard about what's going on.
    And we went to the shower.
    After the showers, we went out.
    And they give us shoes to put on.
    And I got the Holland people, on wood.
    Wood.
    Yeah.
    And they give you one dress, a gray dress with a blue stripe.
    This time, they shave the hair of the woman.
    But when I came, end of September,
    maybe at the beginning of September, there was no shave.
    They would just cut, very short, the hair.
    And put on another side, we was waiting maybe an hour.
    Here came 300 women.
    And we went to a bunk.
    We should be alive.
    But what is the difference from bunk?
    Tomorrow morning, 6 o'clock in the morning, Mengele
    came again.
    Outside, we went outside.
    He looked again.
    And right away, come on here, come on here.
    We didn't know where to go.
    And who survived, back to the bunk.
    Who didn't survive went back to the gas chambers.
    And we went--
    7 o'clock in the morning came an SS man.
    We went work.
    We were working people.
    You know, what kind of work, we did it.
    He took us.
    We walked, walked maybe a hour, or two hour.
    A little later, we came to the workmanship--
    tremendous, big stones, maybe 50 kilos.
    In Poland, it was kilos.
    Everybody has to take the stones and go back another street.
    If you can't carry or not carry, nobody's business.
    If you stand up, you get shot.
    You have to walk.
    This was winter time.
    Poland is very cold.
    In Poland, we have [INAUDIBLE] degrees.
    You're not on, without a sweater, and without a hat,
    without a kerchief, just on this [? pasha. ?] And we worked.
    We come home 6 o'clock.
    We have to have this little soup.
    What did you do with these stones?
    You picked up the stones.
    The stones, we picked from this side.
    We took from this side.
    Next day, you come in.
    You're taking from this side instead,
    and put on another side.
    It was one week.
    The other week--
    One person carried each stone?
    One person.
    Myself, I carry.
    One stone, we have to go around with this stone.
    We have to walk.
    If you stand one minute, you're not going back to the camp.
    You're shot.
    This was going on--
    Did you see the--
    --for a couple of months.
    --number of people you saw shot there.
    A lot of people. a lot of people.
    Even though 500 woman-- example--
    came back 300, came 250 something one week.
    The other week, they have carriages
    like the walking people--
    sand, to put with a shovel full of sand,
    and go with another place, to another place,
    to another gas chamber.
    You know everything over there.
    This took for years to go, for months, this work.
    How did you feel?
    I mean--
    Very bad.
    How did I feel?
    I don't know.
    I says, oh, no sweaters, no coat, no jacket.
    You believe it?
    Nobody had a coat.
    Nobody had.
    I said, what's going on this time?
    Nobody had accidents.
    I have my heart condition.
    Nobody had cancer.
    Complete people, like--
    I couldn't understand how the people can.
    And without food--
    6 o'clock, a little soup and a piece of bread.
    Tomorrow morning, you're going for coffee, 4 o'clock.
    Not everybody could go for the coffee.
    It was a fight to go for the coffee,
    because if everybody goes for the coffee, right
    away the coffee.
    So come to the coffee, people are going
    and stand in the line.
    No more coffee.
    What are you doing?
    4 o'clock in the morning, you went for a coffee [INAUDIBLE]..
    And the other man-- the ladies I was
    carrying the blocks in Auschwitz was very bad people.
    It was people from Czechoslovakia.
    Let me ask you.
    Still in Birkenau, for two minutes.
    Yeah.
    You were fed once a day at 6 o'clock in the morning--
    6 o'clock in the--
    --a little soup and a little bread.
    Not 6 o'clock in the--
    6 o'clock in the evening.
    In the evening.
    I'm sorry.
    A little soap, and a small piece of bread.
    Did you eat this right away?
    Did you keep it?
    Did you save it till the next--
    We ate the soup right away.
    And the piece of bread you chewed it, you bring back.
    You want to play around with this piece of bread.
    It has to happen, if you follow me.
    And you know what?
    They give in the soup--
    we didn't-- you know, we are grown-up people.
    We didn't have the menstruation, because they give to the soup
    something to kill everything.
    People became such bellies.
    We didn't know it was ladies.
    Do you follow me?
    And sometime, people who was very beautiful,
    they took to the office, to the hospital.
    They made them without ladies, no ladies.
    They took them, some young fellow.
    They make them no more men.
    You don't know?
    You don't heard about this?
    Sure.
    Yeah.
    They make a special experiment on the woman.
    And we know it's coming.
    6 o'clock in the morning, Mengele is coming.
    We said, who knows what will be today?
    Who knows what will be today?
    So Mengele himself was personally involved in--
    Everything.
    Mengele, in himself, he do with everything to the woman.
    He sent them to the gas chamber.
    He sent them for experimentation.
    He sent them all over.
    Of course, he came with a bunch of SS men, not by himself.
    And this was the way I was till January.
    So you were in Birkenau from September?
    From the 7th of September, a little later.
    In 1940?
    No.
    A little later, he brought a group to Auschwitz.
    We leave for Auschwitz.
    It was not far.
    And I don't know.
    They picked me up.
    I must be very good built. I don't know what's happened.
    They are picked up.
    they made you stand against a wall.
    He called me. on the left. now.
    He called another lady.
    And --
    I'm just sorry.
    For one second, I want to interrupt you.
    Yeah.
    You were in Birkenau from September of 1940.
    I was in September till 1940--
    Not 1940.
    --1944 till a couple months.
    OK.
    In a couple months, Mengele come to the block.
    Out, everybody.
    He took us, a couple people.
    And these people has to go to Auschwitz.
    They took us, gave us a number.
    Who was in Birkenau didn't have the number.
    When did they give you the number?
    They gave you the number.
    Then I went to Auschwitz.
    Auschwitz, Birkenau, was far.
    Like from here, to go to south of--
    to New York, over there to Brooklyn.
    20 miles.
    That's how.
    We walked.
    You walked.
    Only walked.
    How many people were walking with you?
    About a couple hundred people, a couple hundred people.
    All women in your group.
    Only woman.
    Only woman.
    And we went to Auschwitz.
    They give us-- before you walked into Auschwitz,
    they gave us a number.
    Before you went into Auschwitz.
    Before.
    This was now in Birkenau.
    They give them such a needle, a hot needle--
    pushed it in, pushed it in.
    This never goes out, except you cut a piece of meat to go out.
    And we went to Auschwitz.
    Auschwitz are a little better.
    We went to Auschwitz.
    A little--
    A little better was in Auschwitz.
    I went also [PLACE NAME] Outside working, also the same.
    We had wood we carry.
    We have digging.
    In Auschwitz, we have digging in the water, in the one corner.
    You follow me?
    And once, I dig.
    Not everybody did the same.
    One person worked in a kitchen.
    One person would work in a garment shop for the sewing
    for the soldiers.
    I was unlucky.
    I went on the outside, [PLACE NAME]..
    [PLACE NAME] is working outside.
    And I remember it was 18 January, 1945,
    we went to bed 12:00.
    1:00, maybe, came three SS man.
    Rouse.
    Get [NON-ENGLISH] and rouse from here, rouse
    In--
    January 18, 1944.
    '44?
    '44, not '45.
    1945.
    And we did not--
    So you had been in Auschwitz--
    I was in Auschwitz three or four months.
    It's enough, plenty.
    Three, four months was like four years.
    And we went out.
    Some people were smart.
    I was not so smart.
    I was hiding behind a bridge, behind the dead bunks.
    And we went out.
    6:00 in the morning, the Russian came in.
    You understand?
    Mm-hmm.
    And the walked and walked, day and night.
    In night time, we relaxing out some time in a place
    for a couple hours.
    And in the morning, we were--
    OK.
    We came.
    About six, seven days it took us, maybe a month.
    And a lot of people were shot, couldn't walk.
    They sit down.
    They were shot.
    They say, I don't care.
    I went with a group, five people here.
    Three people sit down.
    I said, don't sit, they kill you.
    Let me kill.
    I have no strength no more to walk.
    How many people were in your group walking?
    In my group?
    In this group, when I went to Auschwitz?
    Oh, about 1,000 people, maybe 1,500.
    A lot of people.
    Did they tell you where you were going?
    No, didn't tell-- just march, you go.
    And we go.
    We didn't know where we go.
    We didn't know Bergen-Belsen exist.
    And Bergen-Belsen is so far, it's
    almost by the Holland border, very far, the end of Germany.
    We walked day and night, night and day, without food.
    Even in Auschwitz, we had.
    We had no food.
    We was walking outside.
    We saw grass.
    We took grass in the mouth.
    You believe it?
    Grass.
    Again, all mine, it was.
    It was nothing.
    I said, oh, my god, I wish to go to bed today,
    and tomorrow not to stand up.
    It was [NON-ENGLISH].
    It was [NON-ENGLISH].
    But it was not God's will.
    God didn't do this to me.
    I'm still alive.
    I'm still alive.
    And I said, I'm so happy.
    My mother passed away before the war, [INAUDIBLE]..
    She's not just shot in the streets like the dog.
    So I'm blessed me this, I said.
    I lost my children.
    I don't know where it's gone.
    I had in my mind, maybe my children lives.
    Maybe someplace after the war, if I survive the war,
    maybe we get together.
    But nobody had the wish to survive the war.
    Everybody was the wish to finish it.
    If I stand up in the morning, I say, oh, again?
    I have to go for the coffee?
    Oh, my god, I wish not to go anymore.
    But I have to go.
    If not, I don't get -- she didn't do coffee.
    I'm my sabotage.
    I don't listen.
    I don't listen to everything, what's going on.
    Finally, we came together to Bergen-Belsen.
    It took us eight days, seven nights at Bergen-Belsen.
    Half the people came.
    Half the people went outside--
    not outside.
    They was killed, killed and passed away.
    And in Bergen-Belsen, nobody works this time.
    Nobody went to work.
    We were sitting on the floor like this.
    Between here was people-- one, one, ladies, ladies.
    We were sleeping like this.
    And it became an epidemic, typhus and lice.
    We didn't have a towel to wash the face.
    If you wash the face with water, you
    took you the dress, the same dress
    what they have in Birkenau, in Auschwitz,
    the same dress you was wearing.
    You washed up your face with this.
    You understand this?
    The lice run on you, back and forth, almost going to the--
    you couldn't-- like this, like this.
    You couldn't get over.
    It became a typhus.
    And people were sick.
    In the meantime--
    How many people were together in this large room?
    Oh, there were 600 people [INAUDIBLE]..
    The homeless have like this.
    It was no beds, no nothing, no tables, no chairs,
    only on the floor.
    And when somebody passed away-- a lot of people passed away--
    we picked up the body.
    Hey, look, it's another piece of bread behind the back.
    A little later, we throwed out the body,
    because it was so smell, we couldn't take it.
    A lady said, why do you?
    I said, oh, I can't walk.
    I cannot go, my feet.
    How I can go pick up?
    The body is very heavy.
    Came just some soldiers, and took the bodies out.
    And the bodies was laying like a five-store building.
    You follow?
    [NON-ENGLISH].
    Nothing, only bones.
    This picture never got off of my mind.
    It was in Bergen-Belsen.
    It was.
    Finally came a lady.
    And she recognized me, because in Kraków, people knows us.
    From Kazimierza, people knows us, too.
    My husband had a good name and Kraków.
    And she said, Levenstein, I need a few ladies
    to go to the kitchen.
    Come on.
    She picked out from 500 ladies three ladies.
    She was a Jewish woman.
    A Jewish woman, but she was the leader.
    All of the Jewish people was the leader in the kitchen.
    She was in charge of the--
    Charge of the kitchen.
    And I said, how I can go?
    The lice eat me up.
    She said, everybody keeps up their lice, not you only.
    And she took-- she had a scarf on her.
    She start pulling around, and I'm clean.
    I went to the kitchen.
    The SS man said, so who's coming to the kitchen?
    He had a speech before.
    You can [NON-ENGLISH].
    You can eat how much you want.
    But god forbid, if you take outside of the kitchen,
    you shot.
    Meantime, I went with my niece.
    I forgot to mention.
    My niece was with me.
    And she was in the same bunk with me.
    And the lady who took me--
    I say, take my take my niece, she's a young girl.
    She said, let her come, you or the girl.
    I said, Manya, go over there.
    She said, why do I have to go?
    Life is finished.
    I don't want to live.
    I have to go to work in the kitchen?
    I am sitting here so long till my eyes get closed.
    She didn't go.
    I went to work.
    And I said to this lady, if you picked me up, you know me.
    Please, I have my niece.
    I have to bring her a piece of bread.
    You saw she's dying--
    a piece of bread.
    You know what she did it?
    She went to the kitchen.
    In a towel, she made me a bag to take.
    She could put what she want.
    She put a little sugar.
    Sugar was a million.
    She put a little sugar, two slices of bread.
    She put to me and give to me.
    Go to the lady's room, how you're going to need it,
    and put back between the two feet.
    And bend it up, and carry this.
    And I said, what if they find it?
    If find it, they find it.
    I have to bring a little bread for my niece.
    And I'm going out.
    And everybody correct.
    They're going, you have nothing, no pocket.
    He didn't touch it.
    And I came home.
    I brang a piece of bread.
    You will see how happy my niece was.
    And all the people came to her.
    Give me a-- give me a--
    I have no-- just a drop, just a little bit.
    And she had the typhus.
    And she passed away.
    Her body was laying over there two months--
    two weeks later.
    Who was eat--
    --I had the same.
    I have the typhus, too.
    And I went to the--
    Who was eating the food that was made in the kitchen, just
    the soldiers and the--
    No, the ladies was over there.
    And the SS men ran back and forth, forth and back.
    Well, what--
    You know what I did it in the kitchen?
    You believe it?
    Some people sitting and making the potatoes.
    Some people sitting and put the carrots.
    And I and myself, with another lady,
    had to pick up such a tremendous, big pot--
    I don't know, pot--
    put on the oven.
    And we were strong.
    But I ate over there.
    You follow me?
    I ate the bread.
    I ate bread.
    And I ate the soap.
    And I have a little sugar, make coffee,
    what they didn't had for years, this,
    since we went out from the ghettos.
    But after all--
    Your niece that you brought the bread to--
    My niece.
    Yes.
    --they didn't have any food.
    They didn't.
    And it was 6 o'clock in the evening.
    Again, it was the same.
    All the concentration camp, to bring--
    to give you a little soap and a piece of bread.
    For 24 hours, to wait till next morning,
    6 o'clock again, such a piece of bread.
    And with this to live is very hard.
    And she passed away.
    A little later, I became a typhus.
    And it took me also to the hospital.
    And just then, I went to the typhus.
    And here are the German--
    not the German-- the English.
    We was freed by the English brigades
    coming to Bergen-Belsen.
    Let me ask you one question.
    Yeah.
    First of all, how long were you in Bergen-Belsen?
    I was in Bergen-Belsen since January.
    We went out till April, beginning of May--
    plenty.
    What were the sleeping conditions like?
    Off the floor.
    Still on the entire--
    Not off the floor, no.
    Sitting like this, what I told you.
    The entire time.
    I am sleeping on your shoulder.
    Somebody is sleeping on my back, like this.
    We didn't straight up.
    The feet even were not straight up.
    And the lice eat us up.
    This was the epidemic.
    When I was in the hospital, I know
    my niece was not there, because I asked the nurse in German,
    this girl, this and this age, she was 18 years old.
    She said, no more is in this room.
    We throwed out, and everybody passed away.
    And I was-- you see, and I survived.
    I was older than my niece.
    I was, at this time, 30 years old.
    And she was 18, and she didn't survive.
    A little later came the German--
    not the German, the British.
    How long were you in the hospital in Bergen-Belsen?
    I was so long I went maybe before the English people came,
    maybe eight days before.
    The English people came at the end of April.
    Did people try to get into the hospital,
    because if they could get into the hospital--
    No, they get to the hospital.
    But the oldest, the other man, he
    was the leader from the barrack.
    She saw every day who would get sick.
    She called up.
    Come the soldiers took you away.
    They took you later in the-- the special, to the hospitals.
    Now, the people who was living didn't do it, couldn't do it.
    A little later came the other people.
    They came in [INAUDIBLE].
    They put on all kind of suits, because there's an epidemic.
    And they start to give the people a little--
    I don't know-- injection, a little food.
    And people passing away like the flies, because it
    was not used to.
    They have nothing in the belly.
    You understand this?
    Sure.
    You see, and I survived.
    And I survived Bergen-Belsen.
    I survived everything.
    And my niece, a little daughter, a little girl, passed away.
    I know she passed away.
    She took her away when she was alive,
    because they see bodies--
    nothing else, only bodies.
    And a miracle, I survived.
    I know what I--
    I don't know.
    I say one thing.
    All my family left.
    And I said, oh, why am I alive?
    I should go with them, too.
    But thank god.
    After survivors, the English people
    start to give you good food.
    They give you different places, different places.
    We was living about three or four months.
    And I'm going.
    In the street came--
    you know who comes to the Jewish people?
    English Jewish people who talked Yiddish.
    Well, let me ask you--
    Yeah.
    You remember the day, of course, when the English--
    When we was free?
    Yes.
    I think so.
    At the end of--
    beginning of May.
    1940--
    1945, beginning of May.
    We didn't know exactly the date.
    Did you know anything?
    Did you hear anything before?
    Nothing.
    Nothing.
    I was separated from everybody.
    With strange people, I was there.
    I was with my niece.
    But she was also not there.
    And a little later, they give us different places to live.
    Well, what happened?
    You were in the hospital when the English came.
    When the English came, I was in the hospital.
    Did somebody walk into the hospital, an English soldier?
    The English soldiers for girls was coming.
    They spoke in Yiddish to everybody-- said,
    who knows Yiddish, who knows German and who knows French?
    And everybody said, Yiddish or Polish.
    And they came.
    And the [? sponsors ?] covered their--
    Yes.
    --cover everything, cover-- now gloves, everything,
    on because a terrific epidemic.
    And they give you a little medicine.
    They give you a little milk to drink with farina.
    And people start to eat.
    They passed away like the flies, because the stomach was
    empty for months, for years.
    What was your feeling when, all of a sudden,
    the English soldiers came?
    I was feeling I was happy to be free a little bit.
    Were you convinced that you were free?
    Free, because the soldiers came.
    And they started talking English.
    We didn't understood English a little bit.
    But the Jewish girls came in.
    They said, you're free, [NON-ENGLISH]..
    Only the British, we are here.
    We will save you.
    And when the British came, I was three weeks in the hospital.
    After the three weeks at the hospital,
    they gave us a home with two girls.
    In a hospital where?
    In the hospital that's in Bergen-Belsen.
    Still, you stayed.
    OK.
    Still in Bergen-Belsen.
    Yeah, just press it.
    Right.
    Still in Bergen-Belsen till the end.
    A little later, when we get a little healthy,
    they took out from Bergen-Belsen to another city.
    How many survivors were there in Bergen-Belsen?
    Very few survivors.
    Very few survivors.
    In mine, where we were, very few survived.
    Could be, from there, it was maybe about 10,000 people,
    maybe more, maybe more than 10,000 people.
    Bergen-Belsen was a death camp.
    Nobody went to work.
    Nobody went to the gas chamber.
    The gas chamber was closed up.
    Nobody went to showering, nothing--
    just sitting, and waiting for the death.
    And this lady, when she took me to the kitchen--
    maybe I'm alive for this reason, because I have
    a little inside of food to eat.
    Did you become friendly with anybody else in Bergen-Belsen?
    And what happened with the other--
    In Bergen-Belsen, there is somebody next to me,
    next to me.
    One was from a different [INAUDIBLE]..
    We just get together.
    But we know each other.
    Only one niece, I had, myself.
    But she passed away.
    But you get the point.
    It's just a bunch of people.
    A little later, when I went out from the hospital,
    they give me another two girl.
    One was from Bergen. One was from Germany, a girl.
    One girl was from France.
    The French people didn't survive.
    The French people passed away like the fly.
    The cold killed them, not so much the food.
    They can be without food.
    It was very cold in Poland.
    We're used to this weather.
    The Polish were used to the--
    They're used to it.
    But note what I say--
    just in one dress, a long dress, no better.
    I'm short, and a long dress.
    I walk with my shoes.
    I can fell every minute.
    And somebody stole her dress, such a dress.
    You follow?
    They're punishing.
    I didn't say they're punishing.
    What they did to us, they're unbelievable.
    I have no words to describe what the German people was.
    Sometime, somebody worked in the fifth.
    It was from the older people.
    This was from the army.
    It was a man.
    It was not a SS man.
    It was not German.
    He feed a little better.
    But he couldn't help either.
    He couldn't help them.
    But someday he said, oh, [GERMAN]..
    You speak Deutsch?
    [GERMAN]
    OK.
    I can't do anything for you.
    I cannot do, yeah.
    I've forgotten a little bit Polish,
    because we are in the school.
    I'm going back to school.
    For school, we have to take--
    in the public school, we have to take two languages.
    Polish was the first.
    The second-- German, everybody.
    And who went to college, or to gymnasium,
    you have to take French,
    Latin, because who wants to take Latin?
    Latin took-- these people came for a doctor
    or went for [? pharmacy. ?] And everybody took French.
    And now I have to tell one thing to the end.
    To the end, I wroted down my word.
    Our wounds will never heal.
    We must never forget.
    We must also teach our people.
    And the entire world must never forget
    Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Treblinka, Mauthausen,
    and Bergen-Belsen.
    I remember them, everything.
    And I will never--
    if I'm sleeping, even.
    I have a habit, what I'm so afraid now.
    When my husband goes out-- example,
    gives an evening for a meeting--
    and he's supposed to be 7 o'clock.
    10 o'clock, he left, he's not home, I am in Auschwitz.
    You follow me?
    I'm afraid.
    Who knows what's happened with him?
    It's something my husband's [INAUDIBLE]..
    I say, what I can do?
    It's in my nature.
    I cannot help.
    I don't want to do it.
    But I'm afraid you're not coming back.
    But usually, we went out, we'd never come back.
    It's a very interesting story, no?
    A sad story.
    Very sad.
    And you mean it.
    I remember everything.
    I may be attack 10%.
    But the church who was [INAUDIBLE] from these people--
    I have no words to express myself.
    Devils.
    Sadistic.
    Let me ask you--
    You have to ask a question, something to me?
    No, I just want to hear a little bit more.
    You're tired of this.
    Oh, no, I'm not tired.
    I know.
    It makes tired, too, me.
    I know.
    No, I'm not.
    I wanted to ask you a little bit--
    What?
    --about after you were liberated by the English.
    Yes.
    Liberated by the English.
    I will tell you.
    I would like to know what happened next.
    The English--
    I would like to know how you became
    reunited with your husband.
    The English people come from the UNRRA, start to bring in food,
    start to bring warmer short, start to bring in warmer dress.
    And you were still staying, you said, in the hospital
    in Bergen-Belsen.
    Still staying in the hospital.
    The doctor said, when you feel comfortable, I let you out.
    I was there three weeks after the English people came.
    The three weeks passed away, too.
    And I was-- you couldn't walk.
    You was like this, and a swollen belly.
    And everybody said, what's going with that?
    What you have in the belly?
    We didn't ate.
    We did nothing.
    The glands swelled up someplace to go.
    And they give you a dress.
    They came everybody, if you have a family,
    where you live, you have a brother, you have a husband,
    all the family.
    And they're sending us, all through Europe, letters.
    You're looking for your husband.
    You're looking for your children.
    You're looking for your sister.
    You're looking for your brother.
    But a couple weeks later, nobody came see nothing.
    She said, couldn't find nothing.
    A little later, I walked--
    Were there any Jewish agencies that were--
    Only Jewish agency.
    Only Jewish agency, the UNRRA.
    You know the UNRRA, the Joint.
    Only Jewish people was there.
    And everybody's [INAUDIBLE] and looked in England.
    But Jewish people were not Jewish.
    And everybody spoke Jewish nicely to us.
    They say, you want to send a letter, come on.
    I will take it to England.
    And you can send the letter.
    But over there, it was impossible.
    It was not organized.
    There was no post office.
    It was nothing, just like a forest, nothing else,
    with just bunks.
    Did you think your husband was alive?
    I didn't.
    I didn't.
    I had a feeling.
    I said to my friends--
    a little later came an announcement.
    The Queen from Portugal says, Scot --
    from another place sent for us outdoors.
    Who wants to go to them?
    They opened the gates.
    And everybody can go over there to relaxation
    and live over there--
    Portugal, too.
    I, myself-- I said, I'm not going.
    I'm not going.
    Maybe somebody survived from my family.
    Nobody will know where I am.
    And I said to the--
    the leader that came in.
    Who's going?
    Who's going?
    And I explained to him in Yiddish, in Polish--
    German.
    I spoke German fluently.
    And I said, I don't want to go.
    It's very nice of the Queen she wants to take us.
    But I'm not going.
    I have to look for my family.
    My life is not interested.
    I have nobody.
    I am alone.
    I have plenty.
    I had plenty tsurus I had for my own.
    Now I want to find somebody.
    And he said, if you don't want to go, I will not force you.
    But I have a order to take everybody.
    He said, go out.
    I went out.
    And he loaded everybody.
    And I was alone now, walking in the street.
    And I see a man.
    Now I recognize one man.
    You're walking in the street where?
    In the city in Bergen-Belsen, everything in Bergen-Belsen.
    And I saw a man passed away with another man.
    And I went to him.
    And I said, are you Borsak?
    He said, yes, I'm Borsak.
    How do you know me?
    I say, you know me.
    You know I'm Levenstein from Kraków.
    Oh, yeah, Levenstein from Kraków.
    How you been?
    I say, you saw my husband?
    He said, your husband?
    I saw from the [INAUDIBLE] a short fellow.
    Is this my husband?
    Oh, yes, because you are--
    and somebody had, in fact, our name, metal So he had,
    in fact--
    they're called not by the name Levenstein, the metal.
    Yeah, he walks.
    I saw him walking.
    And I came home.
    And I ran to the owner.
    And I said in Yiddish, I find out my husband is alive,
    and I have to go back to Kraków.
    He said, to Kraków, so far?
    I don't know about your sister, but Kraków is so far.
    How you go to Kraków to find your-- how do you know
    your husband's alive?
    I said, misses, listen.
    Before I went away from Plaszów, and before my husband went away
    from Plaszów, we maked up if I survived the war,
    I have to come back to Kraków to our superintendent.
    If you survive the war, I'm coming back to Kraków
    to superintendent.
    Over there, we can meet each other if we survived.
    This was the story.
    We fainted.
    We're still alive.
    It's a miracle.
    And I said to the owner, to this lady, I have to go to Kraków.
    Money, we don't have it.
    Dressed?
    We are not dressed.
    I am very ambition.
    I don't want to take for nothing, nothing.
    Since I'm alive, I even--
    what if they give to me?
    Just give me a--
    This, I want to throw away.
    I don't want to have to see more in my life,
    because everything is with lice, with everything.
    She gave me just a scarf and a blouse.
    And we met each other.
    I met his [? boss. ?]
    She said, listen, Mrs. Levenstein.
    I'm going to the office.
    And come tomorrow to the office.
    And I will tell you.
    Alone, you will not go.
    I said, alone?
    I don't know how to go alone.
    Finally, I came to the office three days later.
    She find for me three men and three women to go.
    One is going to Poland.
    One is going to Czechoslovakia.
    But we're going the same direction everybody.
    We was hitchhiking.
    The English people took us someplace.
    We stopped another soldier.
    He took us another place.
    It took us two weeks to go from Bergen-Belsen to a place where
    I can take the train.
    We came on the Polish border.
    Everybody goes on the train.
    Somebody went away to Katowice, somebody to Sosnowiec.
    I am going to Kraków.
    I'm going to Kraków.
    Come the man for the ticket, I said, I have no ticket.
    I am a survivor from the concentration camp.
    He said, oh, OK, go.
    A little later, I came to Kraków where the superintendent was
    living.
    It was in this place not far where the ghetto was.
    It's far to go.
    I take the trolley car.
    And I take the trolley car.
    And I'm going home to the superintendent.
    Again, where is the ticket?
    I said, what kind of ticket?
    I have no money.
    What do you want from me, life?
    Take my life.
    German didn't took my life.
    You will take my life, maybe.
    He said, go.
    And I came in to the superintendent.
    He start to cry.
    Jesus Maria, you survived the war.
    Your husband just walked out.
    No?
    This time was-- everything starts to be dead in my life.
    And three hours later, my husband came then.
    We start to cry.
    Where is our children?
    We start to cry this.
    We start to cry this.
    I fainted on one side.
    He fainted the second side.
    When we get together, where do we go?
    We go to our apartment.
    Maybe we get back our house.
    We go to our apartment, And I knock on the door.
    Open, a woman.
    And I put my feet inside.
    She said, what are you doing here?
    Why are you going to get in?
    I said, this is my apartment.
    Thank god my beds are here.
    My couch is here.
    I don't know nothing.
    You dirty Jew, you go now.
    If not, I take a pail of hot water, and I put on your face.
    Go out from me.
    And I start to cry.
    We went out.
    We went out.
    We have no factory.
    We have no apartment.