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Oral history interview with Ursula Guttstadt McKinney

Oral History | Digitized | Accession Number: 2010.247 | RG Number: RG-50.106.0184

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    Oral history interview with Ursula Guttstadt McKinney
    Transcript
    This is the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum
    volunteer collection interview with Ursula Guttstadt McKinney,
    conducted by Gail Schwartz on August 31, 2010
    in Chevy Chase, Maryland.
    This is track number one.
    Please tell me your full name.
    Ursula Guttstadt McKinney.
    Now, originally I had Ursula Käthe Dora Guttstadt.
    That's the name that you were born with.
    I was born with.
    In a sense.
    Right after you were born.
    Then when I came to the United States, I dropped the "Dora"
    and changed the Käthe to Katherine.
    Oh, OK.
    And then I was Ursula Katherine Guttstadt.
    Then when I got married, I dropped more or less
    the Katherine.
    In some of the documents, I still have the "Katherine."
    But otherwise, I took my maiden name, Guttstadt,
    as my middle name.
    OK.
    And where were you born, and when were you born?
    I was born in Frankfurt Oder on the 17th of November, 1925.
    OK, let's talk a little bit about your family
    and their background.
    Your father's name?
    My father's name was Richard--
    originally Richard Johann Guttstadt.
    And my mother's name was Hannah Augusta Semmler.
    I'm not sure if she had another middle name.
    And my parents got married very late.
    My father was 42.
    My mother was 36.
    So my sister and I were really wanted, which
    helped us during the Nazi time.
    Yeah.
    Let's talk about your family background.
    My father--
    Where was your father born?
    My father was born in Berlin on the 19th October 1879.
    And my mother was born on the 21st of April,
    1886 in Jüterbog.
    That is south of Berlin.
    OK.
    And let's talk about your father's family.
    My father's father was a physician.
    My father was born in the old part of Berlin,
    in Alexandrinenstrasse, which is really the middle core.
    And his father, who was a physician,
    he was very interested, really, in the hygiene, too.
    For he was working really later on for the University
    of Berlin.
    He lectured on medical statistics.
    And he wrote about medical statistics.
    And even under Hitler, his books were in the so-called Gift--
    poison-- closet.
    And students who studied this could use his papers.
    And almost all his things are in the Library of Congress.
    And he wrote his dissertation in Latin.
    You know, the doctors then still wrote in Latin.
    My grandfather really came for Ost--
    from Ost-- from East Prussia.
    And he had not any-- very much money.
    He had one Dukaten, which was then the gold money in Germany.
    And he went to Berlin, and then he studied and did all this.
    And he was-- yeah, he was very interested in statistics.
    He also worked together with Virchow,
    who was a very known physician in the Charité in Berlin,
    which is an old hospital.
    And he wrote about--
    they had cholera then in Berlin.
    So my grandfather really wrote about that
    to fight the cholera is one thing,
    but you really have to fight the hygiene conditions,
    the way how the people live and the water.
    The water condition.
    And just fighting the disease wouldn't
    be any really help very much.
    So he wrote a lot about these kind of things.
    What was his name, your grandfather?
    My father-- grandfather, Albert Guttstadt.
    Albert Guttstadt.
    And in Rastenburg in East Prussia
    they were very proud of him.
    The original, Hitler removed all that, but in the city hall
    there was a picture of my grandfather,
    and one of the streets were named after him.
    And so-- but I never met him.
    My grandfather died before I ever--
    before my parents ever got married.
    I didn't meet any of my father's parents.
    His mother was-- what was her last name?
    Hoo, hoo, hoo. [? Grubauer. ?] She came from Silesia.
    And they had a sugar factory.
    Yes, oops.
    Let's see.
    This is Albert.
    I see-- Klara, yeah.
    My grandfather was born on the 25th
    of January, 1840 in Rastenburg.
    And his father's name was Samuel Guttstadt.
    And his mother was Henrietta Guttstadt, neé Rosenbach.
    And I met lots of the Rosenbachs.
    This was a big family, but they all vanished.
    Every single one vanished in the Holocaust.
    What religion were they?
    All Jewish.
    They were all Jewish.
    They were all Jewish.
    So your father was Jewish.
    Yeah.
    And she-- and my grandmother, Klara Guttstadt, and she
    was-- her maiden name was [? Grubauer. ?]
    She was born in Silesia on the 10th of September, 1850.
    And she died in Berlin.
    And so did my grandfather.
    They both died in Berlin.
    Tell me a little bit more about your father and his work.
    My father, there were three children, really.
    Käthe Guttstadt.
    And she died of diphtheria when she was 13.
    And then my father, Richard, and his father Frederich,
    Friedrich.
    And my father, Richard, and Friedrich
    both started to study law.
    And then my father didn't particularly care for it.
    So then he switched, and he studied
    engineering and architecture.
    And he won the Schinkelpreis, which
    was something which only was given out every five years.
    That is the prize for architects.
    And he got it for designing a railroad station
    and the layout of the tracks.
    And my father's-- and I couldn't find them.
    I looked for them yesterday.
    My father studied at the Technical University in Berlin.
    And yeah, his drawings are there of his things.
    And then he worked for the railroad.
    And he designed tunnels for the railroad.
    There is a path between Berlin and Frankfurt.
    They always-- the tracks are low, and the sights are high.
    And it always was sliding down.
    So my father designed how to prevent that.
    And my father was very--
    all his workers loved him.
    When they tried to-- when they kicked him out,
    the workers striked.
    And they said, we want Guttstadt back.
    But it didn't help under Hitler, certainly.
    Was your father's family a religious family
    an observant family?
    I don't think so.
    I think all my family, as far as I know,
    I think they had maybe a bat mitzvah.
    They went-- but I don't think they even
    ate kosher or anything.
    It was not a very religious family.
    That's one thing Hitler did, all my few surviving families,
    they're all now religious Jews.
    Now, tell me about your mother's family.
    Now, my mother was not Jewish.
    My mother's family is Semmler.
    And--
    What religion were they?
    Lutheran.
    Lutheran.
    Yeah.
    In Germany, in general, you had three, you know,
    which the state supported.
    They took the tax out.
    Either Jewish, Catholic, or Lutheran.
    The state took the tax.
    You could say I'm a member, and they took the tax out.
    But they were not religious either.
    My mother only went to church if she
    liked the minister's sermons.
    You know, there was one, she went to the Kaiser Wilhelm
    Gedachtniskirche in Berlin.
    And then one time there was somebody, the preacher,
    she thought she liked his sermons.
    So then she went.
    But not out of any other conviction.
    And we didn't grow up-- my sister
    and I didn't grow up religious.
    And so you know--
    But you knew you were half-Jewish,
    half-Lutheran in a sense?
    Naja, I knew that only in the beginning, I didn't.
    No, I had no idea.
    I remember that when I was in elementary school,
    we had religious--
    we went in-- my first year, we had religious education
    in school.
    And usually the regular teacher gave the Lutheran.
    And I had a girlfriend, one of my classmates was Lutheran,
    was Catholic.
    And she always wanted to leave.
    And I said, you can't do that.
    I'm not going home alone.
    You have to stay.
    And then there were two people, two of mine,
    and they were Jewish.
    And then [? Hela ?] came in and she said--
    there were the Ten Commandments on.
    And she said, oh, you have the same Ten Commandments as we do.
    And I said, yes, why not?
    So I was really not aware of the difference.
    I thought, you know, that was somewhere
    people said they're different, but I
    didn't know why they said they were different.
    But Frankfurt Oder had a very small Jewish community.
    And they are now on the bridge.
    You know where you have the bridge?
    Frankfurt Oder is written on this.
    They don't have anybody.
    And we knew them all.
    We knew all of them.
    But the--
    So did you live in a mixed neighborhood, in a sense?
    We all lived in mixed neighborhoods.
    OK.
    The whole Jewish community lived in a mixed neighborhood.
    There was no ghetto.
    No.
    Or there was no area--
    Where it was mostly Jewish.
    No, no.
    We're all in with the reform house.
    No.
    Can you describe yourself as a youngster?
    Were you an independent child?
    Or?
    Yeah, I was the second.
    My sister is older.
    So I always was up to her age.
    And her name?
    Her name is Brigitte.
    And so my sister went to school, for example.
    She was two classes above me.
    And so I was-- we had seats.
    And in the middle there was a raised part
    which separated the two seats.
    And there I was sitting.
    And all the teachers, they all knew us.
    You know, Frankfurt Oder had only 60,000 residents.
    So they knew.
    So I was sitting there.
    So one day I appeared, and I was only four.
    And I appeared at the principal.
    And I said-- he said, what do you want?
    And I said, I want to go to school.
    And he said, when were you born?
    And I told him.
    And he said, you can't go to school.
    You are too young.
    So I went home crying, supposedly crying terrible.
    And it took my mother two hours to find out why I was crying.
    [CHUCKLING]
    So yes, I always was.
    When we went to school, my parents both came with me.
    And my sister was always very good in this.
    When my sister went to school, my parents were there.
    And then she went in her class.
    Naja, when I--
    I knew the school.
    So when I came, my parents came with me.
    And then they called our names and said class A or B or C.
    So when they're called A, my parents looked around.
    Ursula was gone.
    There was no Ursula around.
    So they went to class A, and there I was sitting.
    So yeah, and then we went with 10--
    we went into the Gymnasium, in the high school.
    And I owned-- naja, that comes later.
    But my parents-- my mother wanted to come visit me.
    And I said, don't dare to come with me.
    And she didn't.
    So I was-- Yes, I was very--
    so it hit me in some ways maybe harder than my sister,
    to be an outcast in the end.
    Because I also had my whole class were my friends.
    My sister had a few friends, and she
    was standing in the courtyard one time alone.
    And I said, what's the matter with you?
    All my friends are sick.
    They have the flu.
    I said, no, join the other ones.
    No, I can't do that.
    I can't push my way between.
    I said, why not?
    [CHUCKLING]
    And so on.
    So it hit me very hard, probably more than my sister.
    My sister also could do--
    in '38, you see--
    now let me backtrack.
    In '36, I was supposed to go to the Gymnasium.
    We went four years to elementary school.
    And then you could stay in elementary school,
    or you could go in something which
    we called middle school, where you were until you were 16.
    And then you could go to the Gymnasium,
    and you got your Abiturium when you were 18.
    And then you could go to the university.
    But we went-- my school, and we will separate,
    the boys and the girls.
    So in my school, there were 700 girls.
    And from the 700 girls in 1936, only 10%
    could be either Jewish or half-Jewish.
    So the quota was filled.
    And so that would have meant that I
    couldn't go to the high school.
    And then one family moved to Berlin, so I could get in.
    And then in '38, the Jewish kids were kicked out,
    and you know, after Crystal Night,
    they couldn't stay in school.
    But we half-Jews could stay in.
    And my sister still--
    and my sister was lucky.
    She had in her class another half-Jew.
    And after she did the Abiturium, I was the only one.
    And so there were 699 kids in uniforms on Hitler's birthday
    and so on.
    And I was private.
    It was awful.
    It was awful.
    I can feel how the Blacks were feeling in those places,
    you know?
    You did not wear a uniform?
    Oh, no.
    I couldn't get into the Hitler Youth.
    Oh, that was the Hitler Youth.
    That was the Hitler Youth uniform?
    No, we didn't wear any uniforms in school.
    No, we didn't.
    No, no, no.
    And then in '42, they kicked me out.
    Right.
    We'll get to that in a minute.
    Let's back up a little bit.
    So you were a young child, and you went to school,
    and you had Jewish and non-Jewish friends.
    Were you athletic?
    Oh, yeah, very.
    You were in good shape physically?
    Oh, yes.
    Did you have any hobbies?
    Did you like to read or?
    Oh, naja, I read.
    I read extensively.
    My sister and I, we both read a lot.
    My father used to say, how much you
    get paid for reading an hour?
    I read a lot, and I was--
    I swam a lot.
    I bicycled.
    My father-- we were really the children
    of my father in many ways.
    My father took us both bicycling.
    And my father was known in Frankfurt Oder
    with on each side and arm, he had one of his daughters.
    And my father really taught us a lot.
    He was very great.
    When we went on vacation, at first,
    you know, we could go on vacation,
    he gave us a map when we were 8 and so,
    and said now here we are, and there we want to be.
    Now you lead us.
    And so on.
    So when we missed something, then we said Vati, Vati!
    He said, but you are leading us.
    And then he showed us.
    OK, that's where you went wrong.
    So let's go back and then go where we were.
    My father was very good.
    He swam very well.
    And even he walked up some mountains this way,
    instead of going this way.
    [CHUCKLING]
    And so he was really in good shape, too.
    And I was-- yes, I was very good in sports.
    And under Hitler, sport was a major subject.
    And one of my goals was to swim the channel between France
    and England.
    [LAUGHTER]
    But I didn't get to that.
    Not yet, not yet.
    No.
    But let's start talking about when things started changing.
    You were born in '25.
    When did you first hear about a man named Hitler?
    Do you remember?
    Naja, one of the things is when I went to school,
    we still said good morning.
    And then our teacher--
    [PHONE RINGING]
    That-- forget it.
    Our teacher somewhere must have told us
    that we had to say "Heil Hitler" in the morning.
    But I have no recollection of that.
    [PHONE RINGING]
    The teacher in-- you see, in January '33, she must--
    she must-- is the one who told us that we
    had to say "Heil Hitler."
    Now, she was not a Nazi.
    There were lots of--
    so she-- but I have no recollection
    of that, when she ever didn't make any impression of me.
    The first thing, really, we were in Silesia in vacation.
    My father, my mother, and we two.
    And this was when-- in '34, when they killed so many of--
    Hitler killed so many of the Long Knives.
    And when they announced it over the radio,
    my sister and I somewhere knew my father was in danger,
    and we went right and left of him, like we could protect him.
    But we were very small children.
    How did you know he was threatened?
    I don't know.
    I don't know.
    But we-- both of him, we knew that Vati was in danger.
    I guess--
    Do you remember talking this over
    with him or with your mother?
    No, we were really too young to talk--
    Yeah, you were very young.
    --to talk that over, really.
    I don't know.
    It was just, I guess, somewhere I
    guess my parents must have talked about it.
    Also we maybe have overheard some--
    and I know that relatives of my father
    called on him all the time, and you know, what to do.
    And so somewhere not maybe we couldn't really
    put it in words, but somewhere we
    were aware of that the-- my Jewish relatives were
    in danger.
    Do you remember, when you were young,
    hearing Hitler give speeches over the radio?
    Oh, I saw him.
    I saw Hitler, too.
    With Hindenburg.
    That was when Hindenburg was still alive.
    He came to Frankfurt Oder, and we all-- all schoolchildren
    went there.
    And there was a car, open car.
    And there was this old gentleman Hindenburg and Hitler.
    And--
    But did it mean anything to you?
    To none of us.
    We're all just supposed to look at this.
    And we said, ah, that's the rulers, and we didn't care.
    We were too young.
    Yeah.
    Yeah.
    And didn't make any impression on us, I think.
    But I did see him, yeah.
    Do you remember when exactly that was?
    Naja, when did Hindenburg die?
    That must have been '34, too, you know?
    So I was really, you know?
    Yeah.
    Yeah, you were very young.
    And so on.
    So--
    So at that point, you still didn't feel in danger.
    You knew your father was, but you yourself--
    I didn't feel in danger.
    You didn't feel in danger.
    No, no.
    And this was also--
    then in--
    Then what happened?
    In '35, I think, is when--
    before, you know, people the school gave out
    the forms for being--
    for joining the Hitler Youth.
    And I certainly didn't get it.
    Because my teacher knew that I was half-Jewish.
    And then I came home, and I talked to-- told it Mommy.
    And then Mommy told me why I didn't get it.
    And do you-- do you remember your feelings?
    Yeah, I thought--
    Were you upset?
    Somewhere I was upset, because I didn't--
    I didn't like to be different than the other ones.
    And I was the only one in my class, so you know,
    I was the only one who was somewhat different.
    But on the other hand, is my classmates
    were not anywhere against me.
    Well, that was going to be my next question.
    Did they start to treat you differently?
    No.
    You didn't sense any--
    No, my classmates-- my classmates
    didn't treat me differently.
    My classmates didn't treat me differently
    after the Crystal Night either.
    Not in high school.
    The ones who treated me differently were the teachers.
    Because the teacher--
    Starting when?
    In the very beginning when Hitler came in?
    No, no.
    They didn't.
    My teacher in elementary school was an old spinster, old lady.
    And she was not a Nazi.
    And she didn't treat me any way different.
    And my classmates at this point, it was just small city.
    I mean, it wasn't that obvious.
    And then in high school, the teachers somewhere were afraid.
    I always was a very good student.
    And I loved to study.
    And then my teachers were afraid to give me good grades.
    Because then they would maybe say,
    oh, you are friendly to the Jews.
    But my classmates were not.
    And how does a young person respond to that?
    Did you know that's why the teachers didn't give you--
    Yeah, sure.
    So what--
    Now, that was--
    Were you angry?
    Were you sad?
    What were you?
    Naja, are at this point, you know, that was--
    you just try to--
    at this point, you had the feeling
    that maybe you survive all that without any real bad harm
    and so on.
    But my father then already started
    to talk about people who came back,
    not necessarily Jews, really more communists who came back
    from camps.
    And he told us about a man who came back and had a beard.
    And because his jaws were all broken.
    He didn't want his family to saw that.
    And he never got undressed in front of his wife or anything
    because of that.
    So my father told us about these things.
    But these were mostly the communists, not really
    the Jews.
    And--
    What did you do while the other students were
    going to Hitler Youth meetings?
    Well, that was in the after school.
    No, I'm saying while they were busy going
    to meetings, what did you do?
    I went to ballet school.
    [LAUGHTER]
    I don't know how many people went there, really.
    Oh, I see.
    No, and I went swimming and so on.
    And my best friend, she didn't go to anything that I know of.
    Oh, OK.
    Had you heard of something called the Nuremberg Laws?
    Yeah, the Mendelssohngesetze.
    Yeah, sure.
    And again as a child--
    The Mendelssohn.
    Yeah, we knew all about the Mendel--
    Mendelssohn who did this with--
    yeah.
    And yeah, we knew.
    Then-- by then I knew about it, yeah.
    OK, and again, do you remember what
    was going on inside your head when
    you learned about these laws?
    Naja, my father was stateless, you know?
    They stripped him of his--
    and my father was really a civil servant.
    And then in '36, they sent him a notice
    that he had this special position,
    because you couldn't expect that Aryans would work with a Jew.
    So he had a special assignment.
    And we knew about that, certainly.
    And we knew that--
    I don't know.
    you see, one of these things in the beginning
    is, we all had somewhere the feeling in Germany,
    number one is, the German Jews were in many ways very bad,
    because they were very emancipated.
    They felt very German.
    And their religion was Jewish, like somebody else's
    was Catholic and so on.
    So many of them thought they couldn't
    believe that the Germans would go along with it.
    So many of them really didn't expect
    that it would get that bad and the Germans
    would go along with it.
    There also, you know--
    I don't know how to say this.
    You see, none of my relatives spoke Yiddish.
    They were assimilated.
    Yeah, that was below the-- you know, Yiddish?
    Right, right.
    Yiddish?
    No.
    [CHUCKLING]
    You know?
    Right.
    I mean, so that was the bad part.
    And the Jews got citizenship in Prussia
    before they got it anywhere else.
    The citizen paper of my great-great-grandfather
    is at the Beck Institute.
    My cousin gave it to the Beck Institute.
    So somewhere there was always the belief
    is that somewhere it will be ending before it
    gets really, really bad.
    You know?
    But--
    And did you know how you were considered, having half--
    Oh, yeah.
    Sure, yeah.
    I was a Mischling ersten Grades.
    [CHUCKLING]
    Sure, I know about it.
    Yeah.
    Yeah.
    But I was-- no, I had blond hair and blue eyes.
    So people didn't realize that.
    I have a cousin, Gerhard Guttstadt,
    who looked very Jewish.
    You know, what they considered.
    He's [? big, ?] dark hair, and everything.
    They beat him up merciless.
    Nobody beat me up.
    But if they had dared, I would have beaten back.
    And I would have won.
    Speaking about your cousin, did you have large extended family?
    No, my father had one brother, who had two sons.
    Albert-- Albert and Gerhard Guttstadt.
    And were you close to those cousins?
    Oh, yeah.
    Oh, yeah.
    Oh, yeah.
    But you didn't observe holidays or anything?
    No, but there were also half-Jewish.
    Oh, OK.
    He also married a non-Jew.
    And so they were half-Jewish.
    But both of them were in the Organisation Todt.
    You know, which was the labor camp
    for people they didn't put into concentration camp,
    but in a labor camp.
    And both of them were broken, broken men afterwards.
    And they admired my sister and me
    that we had the guts to immigrate.
    And neither one of them immigrated.
    They just didn't have the--
    they couldn't.
    So all right.
    So it's Kristallnacht, you said happened.
    in fall of '38.
    In '38.
    Yeah, and we saw the synagogue burning.
    You did.
    And-- oh, yes.
    And we went down.
    You're almost-- you're 13 now.
    Yeah, and we went down.
    And you know, I mean, we knew all of the--
    now maybe not all, but we knew most of the Jews
    in Frankfurt Oder.
    Yes, we did.
    And again, as a 13-year-old child,
    you said you saw this happening.
    Yeah.
    Do you just stand there?
    What do you--
    Then my sister and--
    my sister and I were lying awake at night.
    And we waited that would take my father.
    We were very much aware that they
    arrested all the Jews then.
    And they didn't take my father at this point.
    And then they had the children's--
    the children went to, with the Quakers, to England.
    And my sister and I wanted badly to go to England.
    And my mother couldn't say goodbye to us, so we stayed.
    But from then on, we were lying awake hours and so on,
    and talking to each other and waiting
    that something might happen.
    Because they didn't hit our house,
    and they didn't do anything to us at this point.
    At that point.
    But the Gestapo came all the time and looked.
    And my father did all those things.
    You know, he had one typewriter, and he typed with two fingers.
    And he typed all the underground and so on.
    And he had-- we knew he had it hidden somewhere,
    and we didn't know where he had it hidden.
    And then came the Gestapo and so on.
    Yeah.
    And I always watched them.
    Some way I was not afraid of the Gestapo.
    I watched them.
    And when they confiscated our typewriter,
    I said to my mother, mommy, they are stealing our typewriter.
    You said that in front of the Gestapo?
    Yeah.
    They didn't do anything to me.
    But some way I wasn't afraid of them.
    But we knew that somewhere that we are doomed, Yeah
    What was your mother's reaction at that point?
    Do you remember her being very fearful?
    Or was she a very strong woman?
    Naja, my father-- there were then people who told my mother,
    why don't you get a divorce, and then you are safe?
    And my mother said, I would never do that.
    Said, I would always stay to my husband
    and to my children, whatever happens.
    So no, she was very much--
    you know, she was very strong.
    And then we had a house in Frankfurt Oder, which
    was in the name of my husband--
    of my father.
    And at first it was Richard Guttstadt.
    And then it was Richard Israel Guttstadt.
    And then it was crossed out in the registry,
    and there was the Third Reich was the owner.
    And my father stayed there.
    They did not kick--
    They let you all stay.
    Naja, my father just refused to move somewhere.
    He didn't.
    But then in October '42, they took my father.
    So up to October '42, you stayed in that house.
    You were going to school.
    Things were--
    In October '42, they kicked me out.
    They took my father.
    When you say they took your father,
    was he at home and they came and arrested him?
    Yeah.
    Did you see that?
    I was in school.
    You were in school when he was taken away.
    Yeah.
    But he was wait a moment.
    He was arrested in '41.
    He was arrested in '41.
    What did he do?
    Yeah, no.
    I was in school still, and I wasn't there.
    But then the--
    Was your mother at home?
    Yeah.
    Did she work, or was she--
    No.
    OK, so she was at home when they came to arrest him.
    Yeah, yeah.
    And then you come home--
    And then there was--
    they took him to the police prison.
    The police station had a small prison.
    And they took my father there and said that--
    and one of the guards there was very--
    was a Roman Catholic.
    And he went to the Monsignor and said
    the Monsignor should go to my mother
    and tell that Vati is there, and they are going
    to transport him to Mauthausen.
    And that she-- when he is on duty then and there,
    Mommy should come.
    And she did.
    And then another time, my sister and I went.
    We said--
    You said goodbye.
    We said goodbye to my father.
    What did you think was happening?
    And my father took us both, and my father never really cried,
    but some way we-- we all knew that this was the end.
    You did know.
    Yeah.
    How did you know that?
    Naja, by then we knew about the concentration camps.
    OK.
    I mean, we--
    How did you know?
    How did we know?
    I don't really know how we knew, but we knew
    about the concentration camps.
    And we knew about the death chambers, the crematoriums.
    And--
    Did you know what Mauthausen was at that point?
    Naja, at this point it was very unusual that they took Vati
    to Mauthausen, which is outside of Linz, in Austria.
    Right.
    Because, you know, usually all of these people
    went to Auschwitz or to any of the--
    Birkenau or any of the Eastern ones.
    And so that they took Vati to Mauthausen
    was somewhat unusual.
    There were more the Austrian Jews and the Dutch Jews,
    and you know, but not really the German Jews.
    But we knew that we would--
    Were there other men picked up that--
    Jewish men picked up that same time?
    There was nobody left.
    By the time your father was arrested.
    Yeah.
    The other men had been taken away.
    The other-- all the Jews were taken away before they were--
    after '38, they were all-- you know,
    my sister and I went into the city of Frankfurt,
    and there they were with their luggage and so on.
    And they went to one of the schools,
    where they were assembled.
    You see, the Gestapo always sent,
    usually through the Judenrat, the papers,
    where the people knew what to take,
    and what they couldn't take, and where to go,
    and what time and so on.
    So we saw them, and we knew where they go.
    And then we went to that school, my sister and I.
    And people say, you shouldn't come.
    And we said, yes, we do have to come.
    So we knew about that.
    And they went all to Warsaw and the ghetto.
    And so my father was the only Jew left in Frankfurt Oder.
    And my father was accompanied by policemen, regular police,
    German police.
    Again, what do you attribute the fact
    that your father was the only one left?
    Because he had a Christian wife.
    Oh.
    I think.
    Though he himself was 100% Jewish.
    Yeah.
    But the fact that he had the Christian wife--
    Yeah, yeah.
    I think that was the--
    so he was-- he was the only one left.
    There was nobody else there.
    There was another Jewish man, but his wife
    divorced him and he was taken before.
    When your father was the only one left,
    did he become depressed, or did he still keep hoping?
    Naja, when you see my pictures of my father, '32, my father
    had blue eyes, but he had very sparkling eyes.
    And then '33, he had sparkle almost gone, and he aged.
    He looked like an old man.
    Once Hitler got into power.
    So my father-- and my father tried to go out.
    But you know, it was very difficult.
    He was-- you know, the Americans didn't let anybody in.
    And his relatives, you know, tried to get him out,
    but he couldn't get in.
    So my father more or less knew that he was doomed.
    So now your father's taken away, and it's your mother
    and you two girls.
    And then they got my father out of the house--
    my mother out of the house.
    She left the house.
    The Gestapo said you have to go.
    And Mommy went.
    With you girls.
    With us two girls.
    And then we rented--
    we rented some rooms with other people.
    Uh-huh.
    And how do you support--
    How did your mother support you all?
    Naja, then my mother worked.
    You see, my mother had really studied music and never
    really worked.
    So then she-- there was a lawyer and--
    a tax lawyer.
    My mother worked in an office then and put--
    stuffed envelopes and all those kind of things.
    And then my mother's mother helped us financially.
    OK.
    And you, at that point, were still in school?
    Or you--
    No, I was kicked out in October '42.
    OK.
    Yeah.
    And again, you're almost 17.
    So what does that do to a 17-year-old girl,
    to be told that?
    [SIGHS]
    Naja, my sister and I left in '42.
    We got the papers in '42.
    To go to-- you know, that we should go.
    We should go to a factory in Briesen,
    which was between a city between Berlin and Frankfurt Oder.
    And we should go there to a factory.
    Oh, OK, to work.
    Yeah.
    And so my sister and I decided we are not going to go.
    And so we took a train to Berlin at night.
    OK, now that's very unusual.
    And what was your mother's role in that?
    Naja, my mother stayed in Frankfurt Oder.
    And the Gestapo called her in and said, where are your girls?
    And Mommy said, they left me.
    I have no idea.
    Now, was it her idea for you girls to leave?
    What?
    I think it was the consent of all of us, that we don't go.
    Because that-- and that Briesen factory
    went to the Warsaw Ghetto.
    So we-- yes, so then we were in Berlin, just
    the two of us, my sister and I.
    How did you get there?
    By train.
    You had papers?
    Did you have papers, ID papers?
    Oh, yeah.
    Yeah, we had a Kennkarte.
    Yeah, sure.
    Yeah.
    Saying that you were a Mischling?
    No.
    No.
    Anything there showing that you had Jewish parentage?
    No, no.
    It didn't say anything.
    OK.
    So then we went to Berlin, and we stayed with friends,
    and we stayed in a pension.
    And I went to a Carmelite convent
    to help with the children, and my sister worked, and so on.
    And a relative on my mother's side,
    who was a religious nut, but--
    a Christian religious nut, but he was not a Nazi.
    And he hired her, and she worked in his office.
    He was a tax lawyer.
    And she worked there.
    And I helped the nuns with the children.
    Did you live in the convent itself?
    Partly I lived in the convent.
    But then my mother came to Berlin,
    and we lived in, again, in furnished rooms.
    And then the bombs started to fall.
    And in some ways, the bombs were a little bit mixed.
    Because you see, you always had to register in Germany
    at the police station when you moved.
    All the Germans had to do that.
    And so then so many of them were destroyed.
    So it was a little bit easier to evade them.
    And--
    Once your father was taken away, did you
    have any contact with him?
    No.
    He was in Mauthausen.
    Right, that's what I'm just saying.
    Once he said goodbye, there was no more contact.
    No, we got-- we got-- my mother got a letter from Mauthausen
    that my father was killed while he tried to escape.
    All the concentration camps had certain deaths.
    In one they had heart attacks.
    In one they had something else.
    In Mauthausen, they all tried to escape.
    It's all in-- did you ever read The SS State by Kogon?
    No.
    So when was that?
    When did your mother get that letter?
    In '42.
    Oh, so it was soon after he left?
    I see.
    Yeah.
    And so-- and then--
    How did she present that to you girls?
    Was that--
    Well, she told us the letter.
    Was she very emotional?
    Was she--
    Yeah.
    In some ways yes.
    In some ways not.
    And somewhere-- we somewhere knew
    that Vati would not come back.
    In some ways.
    On the other hand, is we didn't trust anything.
    Right.
    So '45, we didn't dare to move anywhere far
    away from Frankfurt Oder, because we thought maybe,
    maybe he comes back.
    There's always that hope, yeah.
    And so on.
    But on the other hand, is then my sister
    and I were running for our life.
    Yes.
    And then the bombs came.
    Did you go into shelters?
    Yeah, sure.
    We sit in the basement in the shelters.
    And so then the bombs came.
    And you know, an the rations, and then, you know,
    we heard the Russian cannons from around Christmas '44.
    And they didn't march into Berlin until April '45.
    You heard all the time the cannons.
    So in some ways, you know, we all moved somewhere like dolls.
    You know, you pull a leg and you move.
    You pull the other one and you move.
    And you just keep-- you're somewhere dull to pain.
    You know, there is so much that you just say,
    you can't anymore.
    And in '45, really Hitler tried to kill
    all the half-Jews and all the Jews
    and all the people in the concentration camp,
    so that nobody could say anything against him and so on.
    So in April '45, the few people I knew, I still had contact to,
    I wrote farewell letters.
    And I said, I'm going to go.
    I'm not going to run anymore.
    I just can't anymore.
    And so on.
    And somewhere, I never said yes again to life.
    You know, I can't--
    people get-- like when I moved out of my house,
    I said, sure, I can go.
    I can't get-- it's very, very difficult. I try--
    I also have trouble getting people too close to me.
    You know, and so on.
    But you know, it was just--
    on the other hand, you were also so divided.
    You know, when the bombs were falling,
    and the apartment houses in Berlin were burning,
    and then the Germans were sitting in front with just
    a little bit belongings.
    You feel sorry for them.
    They were human beings.
    So you were so divided.
    On the one hand, is I hope that more bombs are falling and more
    get destroyed, because then I may be surviving.
    On the other hand, is you know, you felt sorry.
    And in some of the people, you know, like my best friend
    from high school--
    my Mommy's mother lived in Frankfurt Oder.
    And she went to Frankfurt-- to my grandmother,
    and she said, where Ursula?
    And my grandmother said, I can't tell you.
    And she kept on pestering her.
    So finally my grandmother broke down and told her.
    She gave her my address.
    And then she rang the bell, and we usually didn't open.
    Because Mommy always was afraid if the bell rang somebody
    will take us.
    And there she was.
    So some of the people, you know, never abandoned
    me or my sister.
    But it was-- but you were somewhere--
    you thought that either the bombs get you,
    or the Russians get you, or the Gestapo gets you, or somewhere.
    The percentage of survivors was very small.
    It was very small.
    And then after the war, nobody ever
    thought that we were in shock or anything.
    Nobody helped us anywhere.
    Your sister stayed through the end of the war?
    She stayed.
    Oh, yeah.
    We stayed all the time.
    Yeah, we were together.
    My sister wanted to run away from the Russians.
    And we were beating each other.
    And I said, you are crazy to go on the highway.
    We are going to stay.
    And so I won.
    We did stay.
    My biggest fear then, well, really at this point,
    when we knew it was the end, is that the British bombs,
    you know, they had these blockbusters.
    And in the basement, when the alarm was--
    and we were sitting with the Germans, nobody opposed us,
    really--
    it's a blockbuster, but we were sitting.
    You know, my mother, and my sister,
    and I, we were all sitting together.
    I think my sister sat in the middle, and Mommy and I
    on the outside.
    And these blockbuster, the people were blew then.
    You know, because it's just everything burst.
    You know, so they were blew when they were hit.
    But there was sometimes a vacuum.
    And so my fear was always that I sit in the vacuum
    and Mommy and Gitte are dead.
    That was my greatest fear, too, till the end of '45.
    Yeah, you know, I mean--
    What do you mean, people were blew?
    Because all their outer--
    everything burst, when you--
    this is such a strong pressure, from the pressure.
    Oh.
    The blockbusters were awful from the British.
    And they hit, you know, the blockbuster
    means they hit whole blocks.
    And that-- and so it was-- that was one of my fears.
    You know.
    And '45, naja, then I knew that the Gestapo
    wouldn't get me anymore.
    Even the government said to the end
    it's a relief army and so on.
    And in front of us, we had the--
    for the tanks, when the tanks would go on the main streets,
    they would go against it, they would blow up.
    Except the Russian tanks were very small,
    and they went through all the side streets
    and never hit any of these things.
    And it's-- I don't know.
    You know, you were--
    in some ways, you were--
    you were numb.
    But on the other hand, you were not afraid of anything,
    really, anymore.
    You know, it was so bad that you thought, you know, what else?
    You know, one way or another.
    So who cares?
    You know?
    Did you know what had happened to Hitler at that time?
    No, we heard that afterwards.
    Yeah, yeah.
    Yeah, we heard that afterwards.
    We didn't even know Eva Braun existed.
    If what?
    That Eva Braun existed.
    Oh, Eva Braun, yeah.
    We didn't even know that she existed.
    Hitler was such a purist.
    He was a vegetarian.
    And he didn't have girlfriends.
    And he did have.
    [CHUCKLING]
    But--
    When you were in Berlin, did you meet any other Jews in hiding?
    Or did you come across any that you knew of?
    We knew that there are Jews.
    We tried not to find any of them.
    Because you see, any time you tried
    to get in contact with any of them, you endangered them.
    So you, in a sense, did not meet any.
    So you tried not.
    If you somewhere were where there
    were-- at the Jewish cemetery in Weissensee,
    there were Jews hidden in these old-fashioned mausoleums.
    And the gardeners, who were Aryans,
    they gave them food and everything.
    But if you tried to any way to do anything,
    you were afraid to endanger them.
    And so, you know, you tried not to do anything like this.
    Because you-- you know, you hoped
    that nobody would find them.
    And if you found them, somebody else might find them.
    Or you were also afraid that somebody might follow you,
    and you would lead them to something.
    So at this point, we did not really
    try to find anybody in hiding.
    Because you endangered the Jews, but you endangered also
    the people who hid them.
    Right, right.
    You know?
    So you tried not to find out anything about them.
    You knew somewhere-- you know, the trouble
    is, there was always a grapevine,
    so you heard about things.
    I had contact with some Dutch underground people.
    And so I knew about D-Day before anybody ever admitted that
    the English--
    that the Americans had landed because the Dutch Underground
    told me that.
    But you know--
    Tell me your connection with the Dutch Underground.
    How did that happen?
    Naja, the Dutch Underground, you know, Hitler had all these--
    they just took cars, you know, pickup trucks,
    and drove to factories and took all the young men in
    and shipped them to Germany for to manage the factories
    and so on.
    And the Carmelite nuns, you know,
    where I helped them with the kids,
    until the kids were all really sent out
    of Berlin, these Dutch underground kids,
    they were Catholic.
    So they came to that convent.
    And in the evening, and they talked.
    And they told me.
    You yourself never actually worked
    for an underground organization?
    No. no, I didn't.
    Do you know if there were any Jewish children
    hiding in this convent?
    There were some.
    Yes.
    Yes, we did have Jewish kids hid.
    We had-- there was one woman, and she--
    you know, she couldn't marry because, you know,
    Jews couldn't marry--
    marry.
    And she converted to Catholicism,
    but she was in Auschwitz.
    She survived.
    She survived.
    But her son before she--
    her son was with her in this--
    where they all collect all the Jews before they
    shipped them out.
    So somewhere she contacted the Catholic Church.
    And so the nuns--
    they took me with them.
    With them, because they couldn't go alone as just the nuns.
    And I looked so nice and Aryan, you know,
    with blond hair and everything.
    So we went to her-- to the apartment.
    And there was a Gestapo, and it was sealed.
    And so the Gestapo unsealed it, and the nuns took out
    the children's clothes.
    And then the little boy stayed, stayed in the convent.
    And then there was another little girl,
    where we don't know anything about the parents.
    And who they just left her on the front doors.
    One of the problems with that was that the kids itself,
    and they went with it then, there were very few children
    left in Berlin because the schools were all closed.
    Because of the bombs.
    And so the-- so any school age kid was--
    I mean, if they stayed in Berlin,
    they didn't have any school.
    They were all sent in the country and so on.
    So it was a little bit of problem with older children.
    The smaller ones, you know, you could just--
    you can just keep and you just fed them from--
    you had enough from your own cards, you know?
    You know, and so on.
    But the mother of the little boy came back.
    She survived Auschwitz.
    And she talked.
    And this is one thing, too, is that I made a big--
    those things made big impressions
    on me, too, is because they put her into a hole
    and they said, now, if you submit to us--
    you know-- and you know, they wanted to rape her and so on--
    we give you food.
    And she said, I'm not hungry.
    And she always resisted this all.
    This is while she was in Auschwitz.
    In Auschwitz, yeah.
    And so on.
    And so I always thought that it's really
    you should never depend on it.
    People shouldn't be able to kid because they're hold this
    as a coward, you know?
    If you go with us, we give you food if you do that.
    And I said, I'm never going to get dependent on any of that.
    And so on.
    But yes, she survived it.
    But she was not a Catholic afterwards.
    But she collected her son.
    Did she?
    Yeah.
    Do you remember her name or?
    No, I don't.
    And I don't remember the little boy's name either.
    [CHUCKLING]
    You know?
    And so on.
    And so but, yeah, we went in that sealed apartment.
    And the Gestapo was there, two Gestapo men.
    And yeah.
    And we got the clothing out.
    Yeah.
    And some of them also, they went--
    they got people out who were--
    I don't know who was the father of that kid, in any case.
    But they-- you know, sometimes people went to these assemblies
    and got people out they knew.
    And so on.
    And the bad part of this was, you know, sometimes people
    went to the assembly and then they were hijacking, you know,
    some of the people, getting them away and hiding them
    behind rows of other people and so on.
    But the Germans never called names.
    They only count numbers.
    So if there had to be 100 people there, and there were only 98,
    two were missing, they took anybody around,
    regardless who it was.
    And that was another bad thing about going and hiding.
    You know, that you always--
    if you could go in hiding before you ended up on any
    of the lists, that was fine.
    But if you were on one of the lists, and then you didn't go,
    you know you endangered somebody else.
    But my sister and I didn't think about that either.
    In Briesen, I guess, I don't know if somebody else
    had to go for us or not.
    I don't know.
    But they took anybody.
    The number had to be correct.
    It was-- On the other hand, is I think
    technology was not as advanced.
    So it was a little bit easier to find loopholes,
    to find ways of disappearing, and some way of managing
    of keeping on living.
    Because-- and as I said, then when so much was destroyed,
    papers were destroyed, too.
    Yeah.
    Sometimes I think it was just yesterday.
    This is a continuation of the United States Holocaust
    Memorial Museum volunteer collection interview
    with Ursula Guttstadt McKinney.
    This is track number two, and we were
    talking about the end of the war and the mother
    coming back from Auschwitz.
    Any other memories of that particular time we
    can talk about.
    So people came back, you know?
    You never knew.
    You never knew, and you never trusted any of it.
    But we got that death certificate from Vati.
    And you see, my father was a civil servant.
    He worked for the Reichsbahn, which
    is now Bundesbahn, which would be the federal, you know,
    railway system.
    And then when my father--
    when they kicked him out in '36, they
    gave him a special assignment.
    And then in '38, certainly everything was over.
    And so they paid the pension for my father.
    Only, we never got it.
    The Gestapo collected it.
    Because the German railroads, they thought we cannot--
    we have no reason not to give it--
    send it.
    We have to have a disciplinary thing if he murder somebody
    or something, you know?
    So they paid it.
    And the Gestapo collected it.
    You had said that you were hoping even in '45
    that your father would come.
    Back, yeah.
    Did you go looking for him?
    No, we-- no, we didn't look for him.
    But my mother walked--
    my mother walked to Frankfurt Oder.
    She didn't dare to take Brigitte and me with her, because this
    was all occupied by Russians.
    And she walked because there was no train and nothing.
    And she walked to Frankfurt Oder and looked
    if our house was still there.
    That's about what, 60 miles or so?
    Uh-huh.
    And then she-- and then she went to whatever government
    there was in the city of Frankfurt Oder.
    And so they knew very well that she was there,
    that she was alive and she was there,
    and they had her address.
    And my mother for a while administered the house.
    She stayed in--
    No, no, no, no, no.
    She stayed in Berlin.
    Because then after '45, my mother got us an apartment.
    But she was the one who collected the rent for a while
    and was responsible for it.
    But then she gave it up.
    It was too difficult with the East and so on.
    But the city of Frankfurt Oder.
    After, you know-- this is called "Grundbuch" in German.
    It's a registry for all the properties.
    And there was at first Richard Guttstadt.
    Then it was crossed out.
    Then it was Richard Israel Guttstadt.
    That was crossed out.
    Then it was the Third Reich.
    And then this was crossed out in '45
    and it became poverty of the city of Frankfurt Oder.
    And the person who rented then our house
    was a physician from Silesia.
    And he had his practice on the first floor
    and lived on the second floor.
    And so it was in very good condition,
    because as a physician he also got electrical repairs and all
    of that.
    So it was maintained very well.
    And then he died in the house somewhere in the '60s.
    And then a family came who rented it,
    and they wanted to buy it.
    And they asked the city of Frankfurt Oder and said, look,
    it is Wessi property--
    You know, West German people who had escaped.
    They didn't know that it was Jewish property--
    they had escaped.
    And so we want to buy it.
    And the city of Frankfurt Oder said, sorry, it's not for sale.
    And it's not Wessi property.
    So that was our salvation.
    So my sister and I got the house back.
    You did?
    Mm-hmm.
    My sister got a lawyer through friends.
    And he only took 10--
    15%.
    Much less than the other outfits did.
    And--
    What year was that, that you got the house back?
    After the wall fell.
    You know.
    After the wall fell.
    Because-- and then he-- because then we had all the papers.
    My mother had always a little suitcase
    during the war, where the papers of the house were in,
    the death certificate of my father and all that.
    And we carried-- she carried that said wherever she went.
    And then when my mother died in '81, I had it.
    So we had all the papers.
    And then the city had my father's name and everything.
    So-- and we sold it to the people who want to buy it.
    But we didn't had all these difficulties, because you see--
    and for God's sake, Frankfurt was very destroyed, too.
    But the registry was intact.
    You know, because if this would all have been gone,
    then it would have been very difficult.
    But this was all there.
    And you know, you could trace it.
    And so my sister and I got the house back,
    and then we sold it.
    My sister wanted to move back.
    And I said no deal.
    [CHUCKLING]
    And so on.
    And so we didn't.
    But we got it back, yes.
    And we sold it to the people who had it.
    So my mother, really, went she went in '45
    and she walked to Frankfurt Oder.
    She wanted to make sure that the house was still there,
    and she wanted to make sure that they know where she is.
    So if Vati would come, he would find us.
    So when did you finally realize that he was not
    going to come back?
    Pretty soon.
    Pretty soon.
    Pretty soon, pretty soon.
    Yeah.
    You stayed in Berlin?
    Yes.
    With your sister and your mother.
    Yes.
    And what did you do then, when the war was over?
    When the war was over, I tried to get
    my Abiturium, which was awful.
    And I went to a school which was--
    we were all Jewish or half-Jewish kids who
    wanted to finish high school.
    And anytime there was exam, we all blanked out.
    It was awful.
    We just couldn't function.
    And nobody ever thought that we need any help.
    One person one time said to me, you
    know, you are like somebody who walks along a corridor
    and sees an open door and runs in, in this open door and says,
    oh, no.
    I don't want to be here.
    And then she keeps on running.
    Next open door-- and you know, but it never occurred to them
    that I really-- number one, I didn't
    know what I wanted to do.
    I never knew what--
    You know, I mean, it was OK, though it was over.
    They said, OK, fine, it's over.
    Now you start your life again.
    But how?
    How?
    You know?
    So--
    Did you talk about your experiences
    with the other students?
    No, no.
    Did you all exchange?
    No, nobody of us talked.
    We didn't talk.
    Between each other?
    No, we didn't talk.
    We didn't talk.
    Because you were all numb.
    We were all numb.
    Numb, yeah.
    I mean, sometimes someone said something, and you realized,
    you know, they were in hiding and so on.
    Most of them were kids who had been in hiding, and so on.
    But no, we just-- we just blanked out, you know?
    My sister was a little bit more lucky.
    She had her abiturium, so she could go to the university.
    But I had-- it was very difficult to get back
    to a normal life.
    And it kept on--
    you know-- and you felt somewhere-- then
    you felt maybe more an outcast than before.
    Because before you were so busy trying to survive all that,
    that you couldn't even think about anything.
    And then suddenly life was supposed
    to be more normal again.
    And as I said, my mother got us an apartment.
    But then you were in danger again.
    You know, because I couldn't-- my sister registered with
    the IRO.
    You know, with the International Relief Organization.
    And she came over with a coal boat.
    You know, one of those boats which brought coal
    over and went back empty.
    But I was-- she then had a temporary visa for West Berlin.
    Because in '48, they opened the Free University in West Berlin.
    And my sister was in the--
    East Germany had only one university
    in Berlin, the Humboldt University,
    which was in East Berlin.
    And so she could go to West Berlin.
    And she got a temporary visa.
    And on this she registered and could get out.
    But I was in East Berlin.
    And any time you registered with the IRO
    and were in East Berlin, the Russians
    would arrest you as a spy.
    So you couldn't do that.
    So--
    Let's go back a little bit.
    When you the coal boat, the boat going from?
    Oh, there were the boats after the war,
    which came from America.
    They had coal in and so on.
    They brought it to West Germany for these people.
    I guess it was part of the Marshall Plan.
    And then they went empty back, and they
    had refugees on going back.
    I see.
    I see.
    So she went--
    She went at first to the Freie University, the Free University
    in West Berlin.
    Yeah.
    And she studied there, and then came--
    her major was history.
    And there came a professor from the United States,
    who was a German Jewish immigrant originally.
    But he was, in the meantime, an American citizen
    and a professor of history.
    And he talked to my sister.
    And he said, I get you got a scholarship to--
    An American college.
    Yeah, so he did.
    So she went to Sweet Briar.
    So she was able to get out.
    Mm-hmm.
    And she came to the United States.
    And she had no sponsor.
    My sister had a sponsor, the world [? churches ?]
    were her sponsor.
    So IRO got her a sponsor, which was very impersonal.
    And this was in '48?
    No, my sister-- no.
    That was for between--
    really, between '49 and '50.
    That's all.
    Yeah.
    And you said goodbye.
    Oh, yeah.
    I said goodbye to the--
    when my Jewish relatives went to the concentration camp,
    I went and said goodbye.
    We always knew.
    I had all my aunts.
    I went-- they had the papers.
    I know where they're going, and I went there
    and I said goodbye.
    And I always knew I wouldn't see them again.
    How do you say goodbye in such a situation?
    It was very-- it was very difficult, because one
    of my aunts said to me, "you know,
    I'm going to go to the concentration camp
    because I'm Jewish.
    I don't know why I go there.
    Because I don't believe in anything.
    I never go to the synagogue or anything.
    But I'm Jewish."
    And I felt so bad for her.
    Because I thought, if she would believe in it--
    and during the camps, the Orthodox Jews
    were off the best, because they had a faith
    to set against that horror.
    But people like her, they died off very fast,
    because they had nothing to set against it.
    And I said to so many of them, we said goodbye.
    You always knew when they went--
    we had a young--
    one of the cousins, and they had--
    and they had gotten the baby--
    [PHONE RINGING]
    I can take it off the hook.
    They were-- you know, they all knew that they
    go to the concentration camp.
    But they couldn't-- and many of my relatives were really
    in Posen.
    You know, Poland was partly German, partly Austrian,
    and partly Hungary--
    partly Russian.
    And after the war, Poland was united again.
    And my relatives lived in the German-- many of them
    in German part, which was then Poland.
    After World War I, they could either
    opt for Poland or for Germany, and they opted for Germany.
    And then they were shipped back.
    But they-- somewhere we all knew that--
    and they knew about--
    they didn't think that they're going to leave
    a camp or anything like that.
    They all knew that--
    at least my relatives all knew that was the end.
    Yeah, and that young family, you know, who had that little boy,
    Berl, and he was supposed to be born in the United States,
    except they didn't get in.
    So he went.
    You said that you had known even in '42 about the camps.
    Sure.
    When did you learn the real extent of the camps?
    Oh, naja, this, I guess we knew about the camp.
    My father knew about that camp, and he told us about it.
    And I had-- but the extent of the--
    I guess we only learned, really, after the war how ma--
    but we knew that they had chambers,
    that they died and so on.
    And we knew that people didn't had a chance
    to come back, except very few.
    Some way through the grapevines, you know?
    There were always some people who got news out of it.
    You know, like this one train which went into Auschwitz.
    One time the Swedish Red Cross came in,
    and they said they put linen on the beds and everything,
    in order to make it look good.
    And then they said there will be a train going to Switzerland
    the next morning, and hardly anybody
    went because nobody believed it.
    But one of the German--
    Frankfurt Oder Jews did.
    And it went.
    The Germans, in some ways, sometimes you had a chance.
    And that train went almost empty.
    Because people were afraid.
    They said that's a trap.
    But then these people talked.
    So you heard things.
    And so you knew.
    I mean, we didn't know how many camps were there.
    I mean, the number of camps, this we didn't know.
    And we didn't know the extent of how many people really were--
    I mean, how really is the capacity was of this.
    But you know, there is a place where--
    there were certain places already within in Germany,
    where they tried out some of these things
    on the mentally retarded.
    Right.
    And so then the medical profession somewhere
    heard about it and so on.
    So I think something to that extent,
    it was very difficult to keep it completely secret.
    I never quite understand how people can
    say they never knew about it.
    I mean, didn't they see the carts coming in?
    And didn't they smell all this and so on?
    But the trouble is that Hitler got in power
    when the Depression was.
    And people were out of work, and he promised them work,
    and he built factory, prepared for the war.
    And he built the Autobahn and all this, and people had money.
    Suddenly had money.
    And by the time they realized politically wasn't everything
    that great, they were trapped.
    That's one reason I'm some way afraid of this country here.
    That's the way how it goes.
    How bad can it get so many people to come to these things.
    But so it was a bad time.
    And then there was so many people who
    really didn't know any Jews.
    So Hitler, when they talked about them,
    some people will believe anything which
    is written black and white.
    So it's very difficult. And I mean, there was a curfew
    after the 20th of July.
    You know, when they tried to kill Hitler, Stauffenberg
    and these people.
    There was a curfew.
    You know, you could see there were before--
    when the Jews, still before they were all more or less disposed
    of, there were signs on parks, "No Jews allowed" and so on.
    So it was very obvious.
    And people can read.
    All the Germans could read.
    There were no people who couldn't read.
    But I guess many of them-- and some of the people
    who were very daring, and nothing happened to them.
    We had a high school teacher who taught
    us maths and physics and so on.
    And he was one of these golden Partei members.
    You know, people who joined before '33.
    They had a golden rim around their party member--
    party thing.
    And they [INAUDIBLE] and so on, and were enthusiastic about it.
    And then he sent in '38 or '39 or something around there,
    he sent his membership back.
    And he said, that's not the party I joined.
    He always kept on teaching.
    Nothing happened to him.
    Absolutely nothing.
    So some people, though, it was--
    there were always some people had a loophole or something,
    they got through.
    The majority of my high school teachers
    were not party members.
    But I guess they didn't have enough teachers there
    to keep them.
    [INAUDIBLE]
    Yeah.
    When they kicked me out of school
    and I was walking the street in Frankfurt Oder, one
    of my former classmates, which was really 100--
    300% Nazi, and so was her whole family,
    she stopped me in the street.
    And she said, I'm sorry that they kicked you out.
    I said, oh.
    I guess for her, I was just another classmate.
    What's it like to feel to be an outcast?
    It feels awful.
    When I was standing--
    I remember that one time when Hitler's birthday was,
    and everybody came in uniform, Hitler Youth uniform--
    everybody.
    So being a member of the Hitler Youth,
    that didn't really mean that you were a Nazi.
    They were all members.
    And I was there private.
    It's an awful feeling.
    I always thought, you know, I would
    feel like I'm the only Black in a white school.
    And nobody harassed me or anything, but I came home.
    And I said Mommy, next time I'm not going.
    So then I started, when anything like this was going on,
    I didn't go.
    Did you feel inferior?
    Or just angry?
    I was afraid more than I was feeling inferior.
    Maybe-- a certain extent, yes.
    Because when I went to--
    when I went to physical therapy school, you know,
    before I immigrate to the United States, I became--
    I went to the University of Frankfurt
    and became a physical therapist.
    And one of the things I said to myself,
    I want that the people need me, that they want me.
    Because before nobody needed me, nobody wanted me.
    I also went then back to the university,
    to American U and Catholic U, and I got two master's degrees,
    and I was a straight A student, and I got a summa cum
    laude and so on.
    And people say, oh, you were so ambitious.
    I said, no, but I had to prove to myself I can do it.
    That you're not an outcast.
    Yeah, that I can do it.
    You know?
    So in some ways, this all stuck to me all the time, yes.
    Yeah.
    Let's get back just a little bit to the post-war.
    So your sister left.
    You stayed with your mother in Berlin.
    Naja, I went illegally to West Germany.
    Yeah.
    Illegally?
    Oh, yeah.
    Sure.
    I danced.
    I took-- I went to ballet school in Berlin.
    This was my big--
    I danced.
    I danced when I was in Frankfurt Oder,
    and I was on the stage at the Stadttheater.
    And then they kicked me-- they told me
    you couldn't come anymore.
    You are half-Jewish.
    And that was very hard.
    That was more difficult for me, really,
    than to be kicked out of school.
    Because I love dancing.
    So then in '45, I went back to ballet school,
    and I wanted to become a professional dancer.
    And so I joined a group, and we traveled--
    and this was-- you know, at this point there was no wall,
    so you could go very easy from East Berlin to West Berlin
    and so on.
    And so then we went to West Germany.
    And every time I had to go to the police station
    and they put on that I was illegally there.
    So but there was in Hamburg a woman who took pity on me,
    and she was in this office where they give you housing.
    Because you know, the cities were destroyed,
    so first you had to wait until you got something.
    And so she said, all right.
    She said, keep in touch.
    Send me sometimes a postcard.
    So I sent her a postcard.
    And one time I was in Goettingen, which
    isn't too far from Hamburg.
    And I got a postcard, "come to Hamburg as soon as you can."
    I said OK.
    So I took the train and went to Hamburg.
    I only went in--
    and you were so trained in those things, you didn't say "boo."
    And I only said, "hello."
    And she said, oh, I'm so glad you
    came, because it's no good to walk around
    without the identification card.
    I said, mm-hmm.
    And then she gave me a form, and she
    knew where I were, you know that I had this East
    German card in my pocket.
    And in this format, that I lost my identification card.
    It was not written if it was East or West.
    So I got the best German card.
    And on this, then, I could register to immigrate.
    Because then I was legally in West Germany.
    I was always a little bit of afraid then when I--
    and one of my uncles in New York sponsored me.
    But I was a little bit afraid when I then
    registered, when the Americans would find out
    that I'm not really, really in West Germany.
    Or they didn't care, whatever.
    But then, you see, I was legally in West Germany.
    And then my sister was already here,
    and she had switched from history to sociology.
    So she became a psychotherapist.
    And she said, you know you always
    liked dancing and gymnastics.
    Why don't you become a physical therapist?
    That's very much needed in the United States.
    And you see we got restitution from the government.
    And so I did.
    And then so I did, and that's the reason
    I didn't come until '56.
    Because I went there first and got my degree.
    And then I worked one year, because it
    takes some time before you get all the immigration going.
    And you were living with your mother?
    No, no, no.
    I was living in Frankfurt Main.
    I was in West Germany.
    My mother was in Berlin.
    And she stayed in Berlin.
    And she was still in East Berlin at first.
    And then she got a card from the post office.
    Oh, no.
    She was already then also in West Berlin without me.
    She left that apartment.
    Just locked it up and was gone.
    And then she got a card, which said that she and I should
    come to the post office.
    There is a letter which is registered.
    We should pick it up.
    We never went there.
    Because the East Germans were as bad as the Gestapo.
    And so we never went there.
    But then my mother was in West Berlin,
    and she got herself an apartment there.
    And then when the wall came, then
    she went to Hanover, because she was afraid
    that they would cut us off, cut her off from my sister and me.
    And then how did you come to the United States?
    Naja, then I've had the physical therapy degree.
    And you worked for the year.
    And I worked there, and then I registered.
    You know, I put in an application.
    And one of the cousins of my father, Uncle Hans,
    he sponsored me.
    He sponsored you.
    Because my sister couldn't sponsor me,
    because she was just in graduate school then.
    And so she didn't have enough money.
    You had to put down $5,000 in order to--
    so Uncle Hans sponsored me, and then I came over here.
    And then I stayed in Alexandria with my sister here.
    And what did-- and your mother stayed back in--
    She stayed back in Frank--
    in Germany.
    She got the pension restored for my father.
    My mother was very good.
    She got-- she got the restoration and so on.
    She wrote all these letters and so on.
    She was very, very good in that.
    And she got a lawyer to help her and all those things and so on.
    And so she-- she stayed then in Germany.
    She came over here all the time.
    To visit.
    To visit.
    But she didn't want it.
    Number one, the exchange rate at this point was 1 to 4.
    So her pension would have been very small,
    and she didn't want to be a burden.
    And so then to the end, really to the end--
    my mother died with 95--
    she said, I wished I would have made the decision to come.
    Because then we always traveled forth and back, and so forth.
    And I was there when she died.
    But she was-- then she regretted it.
    But then she also was, you see, the trouble
    is just foreign language.
    One of my uncles, not the one who
    sponsored me but one of my other uncles,
    when he was in the Jewish home for the aged in New York,
    and when he-- he suddenly only spoke German.
    Yeah.
    And he was fluent in English.
    And my mother was afraid that she said, if I get sick,
    I can't communicate.
    And we had a patient at GW, where
    I worked as a physical therapist, who had a stroke,
    and who can speak German.
    Who [? again ?] speaks German.
    So I said, OK.
    So he couldn't speak a word except German.
    And then he recovered, and he spoke fluent English.
    And then we all said, ah!
    But he couldn't.
    And that's the deal.
    So Mommy was very much aware of that.
    And she said, I didn't want to be a burden,
    and I don't want to lose the ability
    that I can communication.
    She was very independent and in control.
    And so she didn't want to have this happen to her.
    How fluent were you in English when you came here?
    I was better in English English than American English.
    [LAUGHTER]
    I took-- I mean, I had in high school English.
    My first foreign language was French.
    And I was much better in French than in English.
    And then the second was English, and the third was Latin.
    But then before I immigrated I took English lessons again.
    And then I came here, and I couldn't understand very well
    the Americans.
    Because the English is so much easier.
    You know, the pronunciation is so much more distinct.
    The Americans--
    [IMITATES AMERICAN ACCENT]
    You know?
    But I go a job.
    At first I worked at the office of three surgeons,
    orthopedic surgeons.
    And then I came to GW and so on.
    But if you learn--
    if you're always surrounded by it
    and you don't hear anything else but English, you get--
    and then I also didn't make--
    I read books.
    Like Agatha Christie is good to read because there there
    is so much dialogue in.
    Which is important.
    And one of the things you should never do--
    have a dictionary beside you and if you don't know a word,
    look it up.
    Then the next, look it up.
    You never get anywhere.
    Just say OK, in this context it must
    be meaning something like that.
    Yeah.
    Because if you start to do that, you never get fluent.
    Yeah.
    So you stayed with your sister, and you
    worked at GW, George Washington Hospital?
    And then?
    Then I met my husband.
    Oh, then you met your husband.
    OK.
    And he was American?
    Oh, yes.
    Yes, and he spoke also--
    [IMITATING AMERICAN ACCENT] I mean, I could-- by then
    I could understand that.
    But all our friends, you know, anybody who came over,
    they all had trouble to understand him.
    Because you know, he speaks like that.
    He was-- my husband is from Altoona, Pennsylvania.
    So he also had--
    when we dated, we were sitting at the railroad tracks,
    watching the trains going by.
    Because his father worked for the Pennsylvania railroad,
    and my father the German railroad.
    So when we came back, we lived in an old house,
    in old town Alexandria.
    And then we also had another roommate,
    which was a classmate from graduate school for my sister.
    Jean.
    And she said, oh, you are lying.
    And my sister said, uh-uh, I don't think so.
    [LAUGHTER]
    So what year did you get married?
    '58.
    '58.
    Mm-hmm.
    And then you continued on working?
    Oh, yeah.
    I worked all the time.
    Yeah.
    But then I went back.
    Physical therapy, I was a very good therapy.
    But the trouble with physical therapy
    is, you are involved in the whole family, psychological.
    And you work mentally with the patient and physical,
    which makes it very difficult. Like I had--
    I had one patient.
    I worked also then for the visiting nurses.
    And so we went to the homes.
    And there was one lady, and she lived near DuPont Circle.
    And the house was several levels.
    And she was in the bedroom upstairs.
    And they had put in an elevator on the stairs.
    And she was frightened to death.
    And I said, you can do it!
    I come after work, and we do it.
    And you make sure that your husband and your son is there.
    And so on.
    So they were.
    And I said, OK, you can do it.
    And so you had to be-- and she was much taller than I am.
    And you had to be very strong to convince these people.
    I wasn't so sure if she can, but you can't let them know.
    So she did.
    And she went down.
    And then she had a Martini with her husband and her son.
    And then we went up again.
    And so on.
    So she can do it.
    And then I flew down the stairs, because I said, ah,
    I wasn't sure if we managed.
    And so the husband then said to me, yeah,
    my wife told me that you don't walk down the stairs,
    you fly down.
    And so one time my mother was there,
    and John and my mother and I, we went to a party.
    And everybody was there, and then they couldn't find me.
    And then I was sitting in one room.
    At this point, I was the chief therapist of the Easter Seals
    Treatment Center in Rockville.
    And they couldn't find me.
    And then they found me in a room,
    sitting on a sofa sound asleep.
    Because as a chief therapist, I always thought if anything is--
    I told the other therapists, OK, you take it easy,
    and I took an extra patient.
    And I was just plain exhausted.
    So my husband then talked to the librarian at this point,
    at the bureau of standards.
    It's now the National Institute of Standards and Technology.
    And he said you always loved books and so on.
    So I talked to her, and then I took an exam
    with the civil service in translating German
    into English.
    And after-- so that I could work as a translator.
    And it was the National Bureau of Standards.
    And after I was finished, I thought, gosh,
    if I would be a few years younger,
    I would have flunked my old native tongue.
    Because it was all in German, old German script.
    Yeah.
    And I came home, and I said, John, they still have it
    in the old German script.
    I was--
    And so then I worked as a translator in the library
    at the National Bureau of Standards.
    And I realized that you don't get anywhere in a library
    except you have that master's degree.
    You can have 10 PhDs or whatever.
    You have to have that master's degree in library science.
    So then I went to Catholic U and got the master's degree.
    And then I had to [? side ?] pass,
    because I didn't have enough--
    I had all these medical courses.
    So I didn't had enough liberal arts courses.
    So they sent me pick to undergraduate school.
    So I went to undergraduate school.
    And in order to get it faster, I said, OK, I
    take German literature.
    And so I graduate-- and art history,
    because I had both in them background.
    So I said, OK, so I got this.
    And then I went there.
    And then I worked as a librarian, yeah.
    And I worked first at NBS, and then
    I worked for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission
    as a reference librarian and I worked--
    and then when I retired, I worked there as a consultant.
    And I had all the foreign documents
    coming from Vienna, you know, the National Atomic Energy
    Commission and all of these places.
    Yeah.
    So I worked until 2005.
    And when my husband collapsed, I said,
    my gosh, I wish I had my job back.
    It's the best thing you can have is a job.
    You have to function.
    And something-- also as a physical therapist, you know,
    like with that lady--
    when I was with the Easter Seal, I had an old lady.
    Then I thought was old.
    Was 80 or something.
    She had a hip operation, and she walked with a cane.
    And she said, "the doctor told me I would be like new,
    and here I am walking with a cane."
    I said, "now if I'm in your age and just have a cane,
    I think that would be very happy."
    And she said, "you have good talking.
    You have nothing ever experienced wrong."
    I said, "you really want to know?"
    And I told her my past.
    And then she said, "oh, I think I'm very
    happy to have a cane only."
    But you learn to smile.
    And people don't expect that you have anything like this
    in your past, and so on.
    And at first, I never really talked.
    You know, you didn't talk about it in any case, and so on.
    But one thing, neither John or I could have--
    we couldn't have children.
    I couldn't put any--
    I thought it was so awful, that I would never
    expose any child to the world.
    Who knows if not something like this happens again?
    And John was drafted with 18, and he
    was at the Battle of the Bulge.
    And he came back very badly wounded.
    He has a Purple Heart and everything.
    He lives in-- he is buried in Arlington.
    And we both made a decision, we don't want children.
    Because he thought it was so awful, and I thought--
    and I always think, how can all these people have children?
    I just-- I just couldn't.
    I just couldn't.
    And I confronted my mother one time, when Hitler was on.
    And I said, you know, only because you and Vati
    wanted to have children I had to be born.
    And my mother told me that later,
    and she said she was horrified, and so on.
    But it was so awful for me.
    It was so awful.
    And I was in school, and I had classmates, and I had friends,
    but I always know that somewhere there is no--
    it will hit me.
    And I just couldn't see to have anybody putting into the world.
    But most people did.
    And I don't know how they could manage.
    Did your sister get married?
    No, my sister never got married.
    She never got married.
    No, no.
    No, she never got married.
    So I don't know.
    I just-- you know--
    and Mommy's family was--
    you know, they were all--
    Mommy.
    Mommy, my mother had one brother,
    and they were very close.
    And when Vati died, he refused to see her.
    And it was awful.
    So when he died, John and I were actually in Germany.
    And it was awful for my mother, really.
    But I said, I can't go to his funeral.
    I just can't pretend.
    I'm sorry.
    Yeah, so I didn't go.
    Let's talk a little bit about Germany now.
    Do you feel very German?
    No.
    Do you feel American?
    Yes, yes, yes.
    See, I'm a docent for the National Gallery of Art.
    And I give tours in English on weekends.
    I'm a weekend docent.
    They drafted me to give tours in German,
    because there are only four of them, foreign language docents.
    And one has ovarian cancer, and one has some kind
    of another intestine problem.
    And so there are practically only two left which give tour--
    So I give regularly tours in German.
    And somewhere, each time I have to jump over my own shadow
    to give it in German.
    Psychologically, you mean.
    Mm-hmm.
    Why?
    What are your thoughts about?
    I don't want to speak German.
    You don't want to speak the language.
    That's right.
    I've always said, naja, here in this building,
    as I told you, German conversation,
    they're almost all German survivors.
    I mean, Holocaust survivors.
    And they speak German.
    And then I speak German.
    And I always-- one time--
    next time I think I ask them.
    Because at first, they didn't know.
    They said, you know--
    I said, OK, I come one time, and I
    thought that would be one time I would come and that's all.
    And then realized that they are all more or less Jewish, and so
    on.
    So I have been going from time to time.
    But I don't know.
    They don't seem to have that problem.
    But I don't want to speak to them.
    I also dream in English.
    And I count in English.
    And when I go to Germany, I go in a store and count, one, two,
    three, four.
    Purposely or just naturally?
    Naturally.
    So you go back to Germany frequently or?
    I was-- while my mother lived, when she was very old,
    I went over there quite often.
    Yeah.
    Yeah, I was there when she died and so on.
    When my mother died--
    and you know, my mother lived in a senior citizen home.
    And the people were all very nice to me.
    And I only read English books.
    And I said, I don't want that they are nice to me.
    I don't want that they are nice to me.
    I just didn't.
    And my husband spent a year in--
    was sent from NBS to England.
    And he was supposed to be one year in England and half--
    and the other half-- half a year in England,
    half a year in Goettingen. And I told John,
    OK, I come visit to England, and then I go home and you
    go to Goettingen.
    And needless saying, he didn't go to Goettingen.
    He extended his time in Germany.
    But I couldn't live for half a year in Germany.
    I couldn't.
    He extended his stay in England, you mean.
    Yeah, he spent the whole year in England then.
    Well, what are your thoughts about Germany?
    How would you explain that to somebody?
    Naja, I don't understand.
    I mean, I can now--
    I can go to Germany.
    I can talk to the Germans.
    I can't-- especially the younger generation,
    when we come to Germany, my sister and I all see,
    for example, from my mother's family, the younger generation,
    they all come and want to see us.
    You know, the aunts from England--
    from the United States and so on.
    And they are all Aryans.
    You know, they are all very nice to us and so on.
    And I can talk to them.
    I don't feel that I have to hold this all against them.
    They were not even alive then.
    I don't think they have to apologize for what
    their parents did, you know?
    who knows how they would have reacted?
    Maybe different, maybe not.
    I don't know.
    But I can go to Germany now.
    In the beginning, I couldn't.
    But now I can go to Germany and talk to the Germans and so on.
    But I make sure I have only English books to read.
    And when my sister and I talk, when we go together,
    we talk English.
    You do?
    Oh, yeah.
    Yeah.
    And we were-- one time we went to the Lake Constance,
    and we were in a train.
    And there was a young lady.
    And she finally asked us, and she said--
    you know, because you realize that when we talked to her
    we spoke German and so on.
    And she said, but you always talk English to each other.
    And we said yes.
    And I think I do more than my sister, even.
    But then she is two years older, which
    makes slightly different maybe.
    I don't know.
    But I-- sometimes how Germany recovered and so on,
    it's really remarkable.
    You know, but I feel more East German
    than I feel West German, if you see that.
    And it is very sad what's going on in East Germany.
    Do you feel Jewish at all?
    Yeah, because all my--
    most of my friends are Jewish.
    Really?
    And I don't know how it happened.
    The people, most of--
    naja, the majority of people here are Jewish.
    But the people I have dinner with--
    I skip dinner very often, but the ones I have,
    they're all Jews.
    And my best friends, like Renata [? Chernov ?] and so on,
    they're all Jewish.
    Is there anything today that reminds you of the war?
    Times, sights or sounds or smells that bring a flashback?
    Naja, when I see the--
    when I see the wars, pictures, you
    know, from Iraq or from Afghanistan and so on, yes.
    A war is something awful in my eyes.
    It's awful.
    And you always hit the civilians.
    You know?
    I mean, in Berlin when they bombed,
    there's a whole part, which is Siemensstadt.
    Siemens.
    The Americans never bombed Siemensstadt.
    Because they wanted to have all their patents.
    They hit us.
    You know, I always say, why didn't they hit Auschwitz?
    I mean, it was awful for the people,
    but it's better to be over with.
    They never hit it.
    Why didn't they?
    They knew that Auschwitz existed.
    And you know, this one boat, when
    you go to the Holocaust Museum, you know, they show you
    the boat which went to Cuba, and they didn't let in,
    and all the lengths--
    The St. Louis.
    The St. Louis.
    And they didn't let them in.
    You know?
    And they knew.
    I mean, sure, and my cousins, you
    know, the ones who immigrated, who made it out in 30--
    in '39, really, over in London they came here, and so on.
    And [? Loni--- ?] and they are now all going
    to the synagogues, and we go to the bat mitzvahs and all these
    things when it happens in their family,
    and they have Jewish weddings and everything certainly.
    But Loni said we never prayed for the Jews in Germany.
    She said we didn't.
    No, we never did.
    And then I feel you can't get mad at civilians.
    I feel that they abandoned us in Germany.
    Yeah.
    And it was almost impossible to come out.
    But the people who went over the Himalayas,
    like the widow of Mahler the composer
    and so on, all these, the top people, they got out.
    But the little ones, the Jews, they were stuck.
    So then, you know, it's the Germans were awful.
    But then the people who came back out of the concentration
    camps, many of them, when they went back to Poland,
    the Poles killed them.
    So are they better?
    And the Ukrainian guards in the camps
    were worse than the German guards.
    But nobody says anything about it.
    So sometimes, you know, I think--
    and the whole world looked on.
    And America didn't go in the war until much later.
    By then everything was rolling.
    And they knew about it.
    You think it could happen again?
    Yes.
    Maybe different, not with the gas chambers.
    One time my sister gave a party, and one of the people asked us.
    This was-- I was already married then for [? one year. ?]
    And he said, how do you feel?
    And I said, "naja, sometimes I feel
    like this is a really beautiful dream,
    and one day I will wake up, and then
    it's all again like it was."
    And then I asked my sister, and she said,
    just [? the words, ?] "that was a bad dream,
    and this is a reality."
    But yes, I think it can happen again.
    And when East Germany-- when the wall fell,
    I had a terrible dream.
    I was standing on a mountain, and there
    was a railway station.
    And I was in-- obviously in West Germany.
    And the wall fell.
    And I went down to the railroad station and entered the train.
    And then the train went East, and all the people in there
    were dead.
    So it still haunts me.
    So there are certain things, when they happen,
    it just haunts me.
    Yeah.
    Yeah.
    I never will get over it.
    I never will get really over it.
    And even people say I do so much.
    Yes, and I do supposedly a very good job in giving tours
    and so on.
    But I feel very much different than the other docents.
    I feel different.
    And one of the things is, I feel different is they also--
    one of our docents, there is a Jewish group.
    And they immediately took her in.
    But they didn't take me in.
    I'm not really Jewish.
    And I'm not really there either.
    So all my life I have been struggling somewhere between.
    I feel closer to the Jews, but I'm not really--
    I don't know.
    So John and I got married in the Unitarian Church.
    How did you meet him?
    Oh, I met him in a camp.
    At Prince William Forest.
    Oh.
    My sister had a friend and colleague
    who was a member of the 2030 Club of the Unitarian Church,
    16th Street.
    And they had--
    Memorial Day, they went to a camp
    in Prince William County Forest.
    And they had three camps-- for men,
    for women, and for families.
    So Laura said to my sister, don't you
    and Ursula want to come?
    We said, oh, sure.
    Why not?
    So we did.
    And then we get in--
    I rowed-- was rowing a boat.
    And there came a thunder show, and it poured.
    And the lake in the middle had an island,
    and everybody tried to get there.
    And there was a gentleman who was John.
    [LAUGHTER]
    Who also went there.
    He also had friends who, roommates, who
    were members of the 2030 Club.
    And so he was in the men's camp.
    And then he asked me about cars, about Porsche and all these.
    At this point, he had an MG.
    And I didn't know.
    It was all much--
    I couldn't afford any of those things.
    So I said, fine.
    So then he asked me for a date, which I didn't take.
    And then John had hay fever very badly.
    So he came to GW for shots.
    And I was outside of the physical therapy department,
    because we had inpatient and outpatient.
    And I waited for a patient, and there came a gentleman
    and he said, "oh, you probably don't remember me."
    "No."
    And then he said, "I now have a Porsche."
    Oh.
    That's this guy.
    "And so you want to see it?"
    "Sure."
    Then I came home, and I said to my sister and her roommate--
    and our roommate, if he asks me for a date again, I do it.
    I want to be in this Porsche.
    That's how it started.
    Oh, that's wonderful.
    Yeah.
    That's wonderful.
    So I still had the Porsche when John died.
    I always said, if the Porsche go, I go.
    How long ago did he die?
    Only on the 15th of January 2009.
    Oh.
    He had heart attacks before.
    And he collapsed on the platform of DuPont Circle.
    Oh, my.
    We went-- we went to GW for tests,
    and everybody thought he was sailing along.
    He had a kind of a leukemia, and he had this heart condition,
    and his kidneys didn't function that well anymore.
    But everybody thought he was a [INAUDIBLE]..
    And we went to Kramer's.
    And we had lunch.
    And he really made plans.
    We made plans.
    He thought, oh, maybe we go back.
    We liked to go to Virginia, to the state parks.
    And then he went back to the railroad station and collapsed.
    And they took him to GW, but he was braindead already.
    And they asked me then if we really vigorous
    wanted to revive him.
    And I said, if he has no brain function, no.
    And then he died in the night.
    And he was gone.
    And he was buried-- you said, buried in Arlington.
    Yeah.
    So we were married for 50 years and five months.
    Oh, yeah.
    Yeah.
    That was a shock.
    Yeah, yeah.
    It was very strange.
    This is a continuation of the United States Holocaust
    Memorial Museum volunteer collection interview
    with Ursula Guttstadt McKinney.
    This is track number three.
    OK, so you were saying before that a few years ago,
    you wouldn't have been willing to be interviewed or talk
    about your experiences.
    What do you think has changed in these last few years?
    Well, in the beginning, it was just too painful.
    Yeah.
    One time somebody asked me about things,
    and about what happened and so on.
    And afterwards when I went back to work,
    I had the telephone the wrong side around
    because I couldn't function anymore.
    And I would just break down and cry.
    And it was just too painful.
    And by now I think, number one, it is longer ago.
    And number two, it's I also think
    that if my generation dies off, there is nobody really anymore
    who can talk about it.
    And so we should just overcome that and just do talk about it.
    Right.
    It's important that you tell us what it was like.
    Yeah, yeah.
    And so on, but it's something that will haunt you
    for the rest of your life.
    And it's nothing which is easy to overcome anywhere.
    That's one reason is that I'm surprised that people could
    put children in the world.
    I couldn't.
    I thought I was too--
    too damaging, was too bad.
    And yeah, and you know when politi--
    and people are not aware of it.
    That is the danger, is always that people say, oh, political,
    it isn't so bad yet.
    Maybe we still can take that and so on.
    And by the time they realize that I can't take it anymore,
    very often people are trapped, and then they really
    can't do anything anymore.
    Yeah.
    But you know, with Germany, too, it's talking about Germany.
    When I worked-- when I was studying
    physical therapy in Frankfurt at University of Frankfurt am
    Main, we also had to go into different hospitals.
    And there was this psychiatric ward
    where they had locked us in, the therapists.
    And we played ball with these men and so on.
    And there was also a women's ward.
    And one time I came there, and they were very excited.
    And I said, "what's the matter?"
    And I said, "oh, a Jew comes back from Germany,
    one from the United States."
    And I said, "so?"
    "We don't want a Jew."
    I said, "well, he might be very nice."
    "We don't want a Jew."
    I said, "well, how many Jews do you know?"
    "None."
    I said, "Oh, how can you say that you don't want him?"
    And when he came, he was very nice.
    And you know, people came back.
    They were not-- not everybody made it.
    And the German government gave them money.
    So he came back, and he got insurance,
    and they paid for him.
    And he was a very quiet, calm man.
    You know, somewhere somebody who was
    not very assertive and so on.
    Because-- and he hadn't made it in the United States.
    So he was very depressed and had problems,
    and everybody loved him.
    And I said, "oh."
    But then they didn't want to hear anymore
    that they once told me that they couldn't stand having one.
    But you know, then these people believed, you know,
    whatever the government fed them, because they really
    didn't know better.
    And then, sure, shortages didn't help either,
    in anything either.
    So it's always difficult, you know.
    I guess in the name of Jesus more people
    were killed than saved.
    If someone asked you today are you German,
    what would you answer?
    I said-- when people ask me, formerly.
    I was formerly German.
    I'm an American.
    Yeah.
    Oh, yeah.
    No, no.
    No, I don't--
    I don't feel German.
    And I don't--
    I don't want to be considered to be a German.
    And so it's not--
    it's not good.
    When you give those tours, you said the German speaking tours
    at the National Gallery, and the tourists ask you,
    do they ask you something about your knowledge of German
    or are you from Germany?
    No, they usually--
    They ask you or they don't ask you?
    You know, they ask me where I'm from.
    I say from Berlin.
    Oh, from Berlin.
    And-- yeah, I know Frankfurt Oder, more or less Berlin.
    Frankfurt Oder they don't know in any case.
    But they-- they don't--
    these are all younger people, really, then.
    No, they don't ask me anything.
    Anymore than--
    No, they don't.
    Right after the wall fell, I got lots--
    there came people over from East Germany, formerly East Germany.
    And one of the women one time said to me,
    you know, when people realize that we are German,
    it's like a curtain goes down.
    There are a lot of Americans who are still
    very much anti-German.
    And you can see it on our collection.
    If you go to the German Collection, it's awful.
    We have some Dürers and so on.
    But don't tell me there are any good Dürers and so on!
    Yeah, so the people who collect it at this point,
    they also didn't want to collect German art.
    Do you remember the Eichmann trial?
    Sure.
    What were some of your thoughts at that time?
    Naja, one of the things is, I guess for many people that
    is a relief.
    For me, neither my mother nor my sister nor I
    ever have tried to find the Gestapo people who hunted us.
    My father was killed.
    They ruined my life to a certain extent.
    Chasing down these people wouldn't do anything for me.
    I always thought, if I would have
    to have gotten these people on a trial--
    maybe somebody else did, I don't know--
    but it would be more horrifying for me
    to have sit through that trial than it
    would have done me any good.
    Because the damage was done.
    And so Eichmann, I mean, he was a horrible guy,
    and I guess justice was done.
    But it's the people.
    You can't undo anything with revenge.
    When the people talk about 9/11, that was awful,
    but trying to-- now they say, oh, they
    should give us so much money for this
    and so on, that doesn't bring you the loved ones back.
    I mean, if you are left as a widow
    and have small children, for God's sake, sure,
    give them a pension and give the kids
    that they can go to school and so on.
    But revenge kills yourself.
    And so I think--
    [PHONE RINGING]
    For many people, it's a relief.
    But for me, I don't know.
    Are you more comfortable being with people
    who survived the war than those who didn't even live
    through it?
    In the beginning, John and I, we saw every war movie.
    I saw every movie on the concentration camps.
    We felt people who didn't go through that
    lived in different worlds than we did.
    But by now, it's the whole generation, the younger ones,
    they never experienced anything like this.
    I mean, I think I personally would never
    serve in the armed services.
    I would never shoot against anybody.
    But I would-- it's certainly in some ways
    easier to be with people who have similar experience
    than I do than with people who don't
    have any idea of what went on.
    But the majority of the people I meet, you know, they don't.
    They read it in books.
    Yeah.
    Would you-- do you think you would
    have been a different person today if you
    hadn't gone through?
    I'm sure I would.
    In what way?
    Naja, one of the things is, you know, not so easy to immigrate,
    even if you are glad to leave your country.
    Somewhere I feel like I started off on the first floor
    and I don't have a basement.
    You know, I've never been to elementary school here.
    Things were very different when I lived here in Alexandria.
    It was so different to anything I had experienced or ever seen
    in my life.
    It's not easy to live--
    to leave your country.
    So in some ways, if I would have stayed in Germany,
    no war, no Nazis, no nothing, I would
    have had a very nice house, I would
    have gone to the university.
    I would have studied.
    In Germany at this point, I could have become an engineer,
    even as a woman.
    I would have studied.
    I would have become a professional person.
    And then I would have traveled, and I would have a good life.
    We had enough money, too, so I could have had a good life.
    And it would have been much easier.
    So but-- I mean, to immigrate is hard.
    To move into a different country.
    And Americans are very nice, so long
    as you don't compete with them.
    When I went to EU, one time I went to the English.
    You know, I had to take English 1.
    I was then--
    I didn't have to take English 2, but I went and talked
    to the English professor.
    And she said, naja, people like you became--
    she was not against me, but she told me, she said,
    people like you, we can't discriminate against.
    We can't discriminate against the Blacks.
    They're all up in arms.
    We can't discriminate.
    But people like you, you don't have anybody to fight for you.
    It's true.
    And Americans--
    You mean immigrants.
    She's talking about immigrants.
    Yeah, yeah, yeah.
    And you know, and then in this case,
    the Jewish community would have helped the Jews,
    but I was separate, and so on.
    So Catholic University, I said OK.
    We had-- before the comprehensives,
    I said I'm doomed.
    And I went out and cried.
    And they said, why you?
    You can't flunk.
    You have so good grades.
    And I said, huh?
    One semester, they flunked a nun,
    because they can't see the forest because
    of the individual trees.
    The next semester, they flunk an immigrant.
    In my class, there is no nun.
    So I'm the victim.
    That was in the '70s.
    And what happened?
    Well, I didn't flunk.
    [LAUGHTER]
    Naja, they couldn't flunk me.
    I had too good grades.
    You know, I was too good a student.
    But-- so it keeps on going.
    I applied for a job as a physical therapist,
    for the visiting nurses.
    And there was-- they had to interview me.
    It was a nurse who was a spinster, who was not married.
    And so on, and so on.
    So then, when I came home, I said, "John, that's a job
    I don't get."
    He said, "why not?"
    And I said, "well, one thing she told me.
    There you are, our American boys go overseas
    and marry all these foreigners.
    And then the American girls can't find husbands."
    So discrimination goes on and on and on.
    Have you been to Israel?
    Oh, yeah.
    What is your-- what are your thoughts about Israel
    and how you feel when you're there?
    Oh, naja, I mean, I love Israel.
    You know, I mean, for a while I really wanted to go there.
    In the meantime, it's another war, I don't want to go.
    Naja, no.
    But yeah, naja, like all, when Israel became independent,
    you know, I was so elated.
    Yeah, I was so elated that they finally made it,
    and they have a home country and so on.
    Now, you know, things are unfortunately so bad,
    you know, with all the fighting and all that.
    But you know, that Israel, that the Jews had to go somewhere.
    And it was the most logical thing to go to Israel.
    And Israel was founded on idealism, and so on.
    So you know, it was--
    I mean, it was a wonderful, wonderful event when Israel
    became Israel, and so on.
    Oh, yeah, and I was there.
    And I was very, very happy there.
    And--
    Do you know people who live there?
    Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
    Have friends?
    Oh, yeah.
    Yeah, I know many people who live in Israel.
    Yeah, yeah.
    I also know people who lived--
    emigrated to Israel and then came to the United States.
    Yeah, we have right now somebody here who was born in Hamburg,
    and then her parents, everybody went, immigrated to Israel.
    And she went.
    She got married.
    So her oldest daughter got born there, and then her husband,
    they're all Jews and now were Israelis.
    And then they went to Venezuela.
    He got a job offer there.
    And she came here now.
    She said Venezuela is awful, another dictatorship.
    You lost something.
    Yeah.
    Before we finish, I just wanted to ask you,
    I know what the word "Mischling" means,
    but what does it mean to you viscerally?
    Do you know what I mean?
    Emotionally.
    Naja, Mischling is really, in many ways,
    you know, you're a mixture between a Jew and a Christian.
    And it's mulattos.
    You know, Obama is a Mischling.
    Only he is between Black and White.
    But--
    Do you consider it derogatory?
    I don't feel it derogatorily, but it feels
    like you don't belong anywhere.
    The one camp says you're Jewish.
    The other camps says, no, you're a Christian.
    So you are in the middle.
    You don't belong anywhere.
    And so I-- you know, it's these days, you know,
    there's so many mixed marriages between Black and White
    and so on.
    And I always feel so sorry for the kids.
    I always think, I wonder how they feel,
    if they always feel, like I do, that you stand somewhere
    between them.
    Yeah, and my grandmother, Mommy's mother,
    you know when she said--
    one time she said to us, oh, you know,
    you always protect your father.
    What about your mother?
    And our answer was, but nobody attacks Mommy,
    but everybody attacks Vati.
    Wasn't her life in danger, being married to a Jew?
    No, I don't think so.
    They're tied to, as I said, many of them,
    they got divorced because it was--
    I don't think they would have done anything to my mother.
    No.
    No.
    Even though she'd been married?
    Mm-hmm.
    They told her her blood is--
    Oh, her blood is OK.
    No, her blood is--
    how do you say that?
    Pure?
    No, it's not pure anymore.
    It's impure.
    Yeah.
    Yeah.
    You know, but I don't think that Mommy was really in danger.
    They would have taken my sister and me, but not my mother.
    But we were-- you see, Hitler in comparison to the Jewish law,
    you know, where your mother's religion is more important,
    under Hitler it was more important what your father is.
    Oh.
    It was-- so my sister had one classmate in her class, who
    was a Mischling.
    You know, half-Jewish, but her mother was Jewish.
    She was never taken.
    Her husband was the one.
    It was worse to have a Jewish father
    than to have a Jewish mother.
    And you were what they called a Mischling of the first degree?
    Yeah, yeah.
    The first degree.
    Yeah.
    And did you ever have any papers that
    said that you were a Mischling?
    Was there nothing ever in writing?
    Naja, they told me-- yeah, I have to look for it.
    They told me when they kicked me out of school that I couldn't--
    Verbally?
    No, no, no, no.
    I got it in paper.
    You got it on a paper.
    Oh, you got everything on paper from the Germans.
    They were very democr--
    very bureaucratic.
    I mean, like we got a death certficate for my father.
    Yeah, yeah.
    You know, but the--
    yeah, and you see, there was also--
    it always depended, if you had four Jewish grandparents,
    you were Jewish.
    Right.
    If you had two, you were half-Jewish.
    But now, if I had two Jewish grandparents,
    if I marry another half-Jew, then
    my kids would have four Jewish grandparents.
    They would be Jewish again.
    Right, right, right.
    So actually, though, from what I understand
    when you were growing up, you did not know other Mischlings.
    Oh, yeah, for sure.
    You did?
    Oh, yeah.
    Oh, yeah.
    Yeah.
    There was another, one of my classmates
    who was her mother was Jewish, and she was of Jewish religion,
    but her father wasn't Jewish.
    And they-- but then she went to Berlin and so on.
    And then my cousins were like my sister and me.
    You know.
    Oh, right.
    [? Albert and Gerhard ?] And then my sister's friend,
    you know, she was a Mischling.
    And oh, yeah, there were lots of them around.
    OK.
    And we knew other people in Frankfurt Oder,
    where the mother finally broke down,
    the woman walked down and got divorced from her husband.
    Husband was deported the next day, and she was OK.
    But her daughter went with the children's transport
    to England.
    So she wasn't even in the country anymore.
    No, I don't know how she would--
    how she reacted towards that.
    And then we had-- you know, my father had other people--
    I mean, I knew quite a lot of Mischlings.
    Yeah, quite a lot.
    When you see that word written in 2010,
    do you have any kind of reaction to it?
    Mischling?
    Suppose you picked up something and it
    had that word on the page?
    Huh?
    Then I would say that's me.
    [LAUGHTER]
    At this point, no.
    I think--
    Has it lost its negative connotation?
    To be a Mischling didn't really bother me so much.
    What bothered me most is the reaction of the two parties,
    that they always thought that I'm neither nor.
    Yeah, yeah.
    That I was otherwise.
    You know, that I was a Mischling,
    that didn't-- my father, I loved my father, loved my mother.
    That was all very nice, and it didn't bother me.
    But each camp really thought I don't belong there,
    you don't belong there, but there, you don't belong there
    either, You belong there.
    So we didn't belong anywhere.
    Did your mother's family fully accept your father?
    No.
    Because of the religious--
    Yeah.
    Yeah, my grandparents, my mommy's parents did.
    Did accept.
    Mm-hmm.
    Yeah.
    But her relatives did not?
    Not really, no.
    No.
    Was that very upsetting to your mother?
    Yeah.
    But it wasn't really that--
    I mean, they didn't vocalize it, really, that much.
    We lived in Frankfurt.
    They lived in Erfurt.
    And I think if Mommy's parents would have been against Mommy,
    that would have been very hard.
    But Omi always was very supportive for us.
    And she helped us financially and everything.
    And so-- and my father, you see, went to my grandfather
    and asked, you know, for the hand of mommy.
    And said--
    But they knew each other as children.
    There was a playground in Berlin.
    And my parents, both parents, were members of it.
    And the Guttstadts were on the board.
    And so my mother played with my father
    when they were kids and so on.
    And then they lost contact.
    And there was another family, the
    [? Karls, ?] who were also Jewish.
    And they kept in contact with both sides.
    So they thought that my father and my mother
    should meet again.
    And so they invited them together.
    So they really got them together again.
    But they knew each other as kids.
    Yeah, they played on the same playground and so on.
    And then my mother was very good in tennis.
    And my father, I don't, think played tennis.
    But my father could run and do all these things.
    And my mother tells us about it.
    When Uncle Fritz and Vati were brothers,
    took her in the middle and ran with her,
    and she never got two feet on the ground.
    [LAUGHTER]
    And so on.
    So they knew each other.
    So the family knew each other.
    How do you feel about having the United States Holocaust
    Museum being built in the United States?
    Naja, I'm a founding member.
    [LAUGHTER]
    I have very mixed feelings about the Holocaust Museum.
    Because you know, I can go there.
    I went there with my--
    right after the opening--
    naja, my sister and I went there when it opened.
    You know, we lit a candle for my father and so on.
    But then the second time around, we went with our two cousins.
    They're really once removed.
    They're from New York.
    And we all went.
    And then we saw all the pictures.
    And that was funny, because then [? Loni ?] and her,
    they all were in Berlin, and said,
    "Oh, yeah, that's the synagogue I went to.
    That's the school."
    Oh, my.
    Oh, my.
    So it was, you know-- and then I wasn't upset at all.
    And one of my cousins was [INAUDIBLE]..
    So I pushed her in the wheelchair and so on.
    And then I went with John certainly, too.
    But one time I went.
    I had visitors.
    My classmate who finally came to us, her two daughters
    came over here.
    And I took them to the Holocaust Museum.
    And then I spoke German.
    And then I couldn't.
    I said you go, and I sit down.
    And I cried.
    Oh, you're speaking German to them.
    Yeah, then I couldn't.
    I can go through with Americans.
    I go with John's family.
    Some of John's family came, and they said,
    can't you go with us?
    I said OK.
    I can do that.
    But when I get the Germans, then it's out.
    Then I can't.
    Germans, I can't go.
    Then I can't.
    Well, it's OK.
    I think there are too many by now almost.
    You know, the trouble is, too, is whether you give anything
    to it, you know?
    My sister is a member of the Beck Institute.
    And you know, we looked up some of the--
    where some of our relatives ended up,
    who went to Theresienstadt and out.
    Because Theresienstadt didn't have any gas chambers.
    So they all went to other places.
    The way how the people died in Mauthausen is awful.
    Did you purposely want to learn that?
    Because your father was there?
    I promised my mother never to go to Mauthausen.
    So I will never go there.
    But yeah.
    Yeah, I wanted-- you know, so it's--
    yeah.
    And yeah, the SS-Staat--
    this is in English.
    I mean, he wrote it in German, but he
    wrote about all the different ways they died in the camps,
    too.
    Not everybody died, you know, in the gas chambers.
    They had other ways to kill people, too, and so on.
    So I don't 100% know how my father died,
    but I have a pretty good idea.
    Yeah.
    But yeah, so it's--
    But it's-- that people can-- and that people could--
    many of these SS people who were in camps,
    they went home to their families.
    They were good family fathers.
    They had dogs and kids.
    And then they turned around and did that.
    I assume it's what some of our soldiers did in Iraq, right?
    And what did we do to some of the people?
    How to torture people.
    And then they go home and are good family people.
    It's hard to believe.
    So as you said before, you still feel
    that the world has really not learned the lessons.
    Or has it?
    Now, for most people by now, I'm afraid that the Holocaust
    is somewhere history.
    And for most people, probably.
    I mean, you can't--
    I haven't tried it.
    But any time you would talk to any German about it,
    then they would immediately tell you
    how bad it was during the war with ration cards and bombs
    falling on your head, and all that.
    Immediately will tell you how bad it was to shut you up.
    They also had taught in the '50s a joke, the Volkswagen.
    How many people go in a Volkswagen?
    Four Germans and one Jew.
    The Jew is in the ashtray.
    One of my classmates in physical therapy school told me that.
    But then we were, too, from East Germany,
    and they didn't trust us either.
    They thought that we were spies.
    So depends to whom you speak.
    And if you don't say anything, OK.
    But-- and it was awful.
    You know, after the war the rats were that big.
    And the people were lying in the streets.
    They ate on them, you know?
    I mean, there was--
    you walked along the streets and there was a pipe coming up,
    and people were living under earth
    because it was all destroyed.
    I mean, it was horrible.
    Yeah, we went to--
    you just stepped over dead bodies.
    Yeah.
    We went-- my mommy and my sister and I, that
    was before the war was over.
    You know, Potsdam was, like Dresden, declared an open city.
    But nevertheless, Americans bombed it.
    And so we went by train.
    We went in, and then we had-- at last we had to walk.
    And there were all these bodies lying there.
    And I fainted.
    I'm not very good in seeing blood.
    But nevertheless, there was lying a hand,
    there was something there, and you just kept on going.
    I happened to go there, you know?
    You just went.
    And sure, it was awful.
    It had nothing to do with the Holocaust.
    It was the war.
    That was awful.
    And these are people, not soldiers.
    They were just civilians.
    You know, the train was hit.
    Which was one of the suburban trains.
    Yeah.
    So that's awful, yeah.
    So war, yeah, I don't believe in war.
    I always tell people, it's sanctified murder.
    They don't like to hear that.
    And you know, I can unders--
    I mean, these guys here, and they're all trigger happy,
    you know?
    I mean, either you or me, it's better you and not me.
    Human beings want to survive.
    I mean, the people who survived in the concentration camps
    had a very strong will to survive.
    Yeah.
    And so religious, the Orthodox Jews were the best.
    And the communists.
    The murderers were the best because they
    didn't care about heaven.
    You know, they helped.
    The ones who caved in were the elite, the university
    professors, the doctors and all these people.
    They couldn't cope with that.
    They were also the ones who informed.
    If they saw anybody, a Jew anywhere around there,
    they were informing.
    They were frightened to death of their own life.
    You know, the laborers and the communists
    and so on, they were much more helpful.
    When I was very depressed there, I
    went to the northern part of Berlin,
    where all the laborers work and so on,
    and I felt much more secure there
    than when I was in the more fancy places in Berlin.
    But human nature is something, it's very strange.
    Very strange.
    Do you and your sister talk about those years?
    Sometimes yes.
    Sometimes.
    Has she been willing to talk about it?
    Yeah.
    Yeah, and our memories are somewhat different, you know?
    You know, we said something lately,
    and she said, Oh, I don't remember that at all.
    And sometimes she says something and I said,
    I don't remember that at all.
    And so on.
    You know, like I said, I can't remember
    when my elementary school teacher told us
    we have to say "Heil Hitler."
    I have no idea.
    It didn't make any impression on me.
    And so certain things.
    And two years difference, I guess, is a difference.
    And one time Renata [? Chernov ?]
    and Frieda Blumenthal, who is dead by now,
    who was older than both of us, and I, we went to an exhibit
    together.
    And then Renata said to us--
    said Amos wanted to go to, I think
    it was to Berlin, to a conference.
    And she was considering to go or not.
    And I said don't!
    And Frieda said, sure, why not?
    But then she could remember Germany before Hitler.
    I couldn't, really.
    Right.
    It was typical.
    Renata just looked at us both.
    Yeah, yeah.
    She could still remember when things were different.
    Yeah.
    So it's always-- it makes a big difference, yeah.
    Yeah.
    But for you, it always meant you were eight years old when
    Hitler came into power, so--
    No, I wasn't really eight yet.
    Well, almost.
    Yeah, seven.
    Seven.
    So for you, it always meant--
    Germany always meant tension and stress.
    Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
    And we were surrounded.
    Our house was here.
    And there was another house here.
    And this was where the SS was.
    Oh.
    So they could always watch us.
    And then right over there was a house,
    and there was a Lutheran pastor living.
    But you know, there were two branches.
    One was the Deutsche Christen, the German Christians
    who were Nazis.
    And the other one was the Confessing Church,
    which we are not.
    Niemoller [INAUDIBLE] in Confessing.
    But this guy was a Deutscher Christ.
    So there he was, and there was the SS.
    And they were so good together.
    Yeah, yeah.
    But when I was--
    and my teacher was very nice.
    I wrote to my teacher.
    The last thing I sent was my wedding announcement, which
    came because that she had died.
    But she was very nice, and she was very good to me.
    But-- and in the beginning, I really acted--
    I had somebody across from us, was somebody living
    who was very poor.
    It was a very old house, and it was a poor house.
    And she is a-- we had to pay to go to Gymnasium.
    Not very much, but we had to pay.
    And also to the middle school.
    So she was a good student, and she
    had to keep on going to elementary school
    because her parents couldn't afford it.
    So I went to the teacher, and I said
    you have to see that she get a fellowship.
    And she did get one.
    But this was '36.
    By then, you know, things were already difficult and so on.
    But I didn't hesitate then to do that.
    I didn't feel like I couldn't do that.
    And she did get her fellowship.
    I was very happy about that.
    [LAUGHTER]
    What-- when you would see the flag with the swastika
    or the men in their boots and their uniforms as a child,
    is that frightening also?
    Naja, we really, in many ways, we didn't-- naja,
    the swastika you saw.
    You saw that my mother was always upset,
    because Hitler's birthday on the 20th of April
    and she on the 21st.
    And on the 21st, they hadn't taken down these flags.
    Oh!
    Which was awful.
    Naja, so I mean, but the SS and marching and boots and so on,
    we didn't really see this so much.
    I saw military people.
    But in many ways, I saw--
    under Hitler in many ways, and this is under a dictatorship,
    I mean, there was a curfew.
    You weren't supposed to be out after 11:00.
    But in many ways, it was much safer
    than under other conditions.
    Less murder and any of those things
    of between the general public.
    And you saw less police than you see when you go downtown
    to Washington.
    And so on.
    So you know, and I heard Hitler talk.
    When you would hear him talk on the radio?
    Oh, sure.
    Or on television.
    On television?
    Mm-hmm.
    Yeah, we heard him.
    I mean, we had to listen to him.
    We had to know what's going on.
    Who had an early television?
    Where did we see the television?
    Maybe I didn't see that.
    No, I think I only heard him on the radio.
    And television, I saw the stuff after the war.
    And there on it.
    Or maybe in a news reel in the movie theater?
    Yeah, the news reel.
    Yeah.
    We had always the news reels.
    Yeah.
    We had the news reels.
    Now, when you would hear him?
    I thought he was an idiot.
    You did?
    [CHUCKLING]
    I thought he was an idiot.
    And then they had a power struggle one time.
    When was that?
    Pretty much to the end of the war, too.
    They had a power struggle.
    He wanted to kill Goebbels.
    And Goebbels said, OK, if you kill me, I will talk.
    So three days later, Goebbels was in power again.
    But it's--
    But he was-- people were--
    it was like to see-- like when Beck talked.
    People were hysterical when they saw him.
    And then they had this idiotic thing.
    "If the Fuhrer would know, that wouldn't happen."
    Come on.
    Oh, if the Fuhrer would know all the terrible things that
    happened, he wouldn't have--
    Yeah.
    Yeah.
    But the people were hysterical when they saw him.
    You know?
    So it was-- and the young people, you know in Berlin
    we had the werewolf in Berlin.
    You don't know the werewolf?
    We had to the end of--
    you see, the five story apartment
    houses and the whole block, because of the bombs
    all the attics were connected.
    So the wall was broken down.
    In the basement, also they had only one wall
    which you could really hit and connect,
    so you could get out if your house was hit and so on.
    So the young guys, the 16-year-old ones and so on,
    were fanatic Nazis.
    And they were running around in these attics and shooting.
    And then the Russians went in and said,
    if you don't get them down, then you all have to go out.
    And one time they did.
    They had their tanks set up in Pankow.
    And then they went down in the basement
    and put the women in the front.
    And then they told the werewolf, OK, now this is your mothers.
    Stop shooting.
    But they didn't.
    So they sent the women down again.
    Some of the German young people were very fanatic.
    And the Germans had these flame throwers.
    So they throw-- so they shot into the first floor.
    And then the houses started to burn from the lower part up.
    And then the Russians went down and said,
    your house is burning.
    You better come up.
    And so I mean, we had the Red Armies,
    which were supposed to be better than the others.
    They did lots of bad things.
    But nevertheless-- nevertheless, I
    know only one girl who was raped.
    I only know one girl who was raped.
    But in the country was a different matter.
    But we were on the border.
    So where we lived in, behind us was what we called
    the [? "Stalinorgel," ?] which is automatic cannons.
    Woo, woo!
    And so on.
    They were right behind us.
    And then before us, they never got further there.
    The next part they never got until Berlin
    capitulated on the 2nd of April.
    So we were under fire every day.
    And the Russians came with their little panzer wagons.
    You know, the ones they had from Siberia and so on?
    That's all they had.
    Otherwise, everything was made in USA.
    The uniforms and everything was made in USA
    when they marched into Berlin.
    And we were frightened to death of them.
    Yeah, I think.
    it was the Gestapo and all this, and then you
    had the Russians you were afraid of.
    And the American army?
    Well, they never came where I was.
    Yeah, yeah.
    They came afterwards.
    You see, they stopped at the Elbe.
    Right, right.
    By the time they came, the war was over.
    The war was over.
    Yeah.
    The Russians conquered Berlin.
    Right.
    Yeah.
    That was the capital.
    What did America mean to you at that point?
    Well, at this point, I mean, I was glad
    when the Americans came.
    I was more-- would have been more glad
    if I would have been in the American zone and not
    in the Russian zone in Berlin.
    But you know, we--
    I meant the country itself.
    What did--
    Oh, I loved America.
    My father was here with the Schinkelpreis.
    You know, the architectural prize he won.
    He came to the United States and studied the railroads here.
    And he came back, and we had a suitcase in the attic
    full of stuff from America.
    So my father always said, when you grow older,
    you know, we are going to America.
    Not to emigrate, but to visit so on.
    So my sister and I grew up with a love to America.
    But we always thought that is a wonderful dream.
    We will never make it.
    So when the Americans actually came, you know, yeah.
    But on the other hand, before I went to physical therapy
    school, I had to make a Praktikum in a hospital.
    So I was in--
    I thought I go to children's hospital.
    It's better to take a visit from the children
    and not from the adults.
    So I went to a children's hospital.
    And that was bombed out.
    So we were in the country.
    And then this was in American zone.
    And then they had maneuvers.
    And the Americans had these huge tanks.
    And the houses, the tanks were as big as the houses were high.
    And then on top there were these Black soldiers.
    Oh.
    And I remember I had to cross the street.
    I had night shift, and I had to go across the street
    to where I was staying, you know?
    And I was afraid of them.
    I was frightened to death of them.
    They looked awful frightening.
    I know they would not--
    I didn't know.
    They were soldiers, and so all soldiers are bad.
    An occupation army is no good for civilians.
    And the Americans had a plus.
    You know, the Russians had no choice.
    They had to rape women.
    The Americans said, "hi, baby.
    I have chocolate" and found enough girls to go with them.
    The British and the French were different.
    But the Americans, you know?
    But then in Frankfurt Main in the main streets,
    you know, the Americans, the young soldiers,
    they flew out of the bars drunk.
    I mean, an occupation army is no good.
    And you try not to get involved with occupation army.
    Even if I didn't try to get involved with them.
    When you came to the United States, how did you get here?
    By boat.
    By boat.
    Which boat?
    United States.
    It was called United States.
    Oh, it was called "The United States"?
    Yeah.
    They were two-- America and The United States.
    It was was American boats, yeah.
    Yeah.
    Yeah.
    Well, is there anything else you wanted to--
    you would like to say or would like to add?
    Anything you can think of?
    [CHUCKLING]
    No.
    It's wonderful that you did this interview.
    As you said, you couldn't always have done it.
    No, no.
    It's-- Yeah.
    But you know, it's--
    it's a long time to go, but you will--
    at least I will never really get attached to anything.
    And when my husband--
    I miss my husband very much.
    But when he died and they all said,
    don't do anything the first year.
    And I emptied the house, and I sold it.
    And I told John before.
    I said, I liked that house, but I can walk out.
    It doesn't mean anything to me.
    When my sister and I, for a long, long time, when
    we talk about our house-- and my sister
    has a townhouse-- but when we talk
    about our houses, our house in Frankfurt Oder, even now,
    I will never talk about our house here or anything.
    Our house is a house in Frankfurt Oder,
    and we are still attached to that.
    And to have to leave that, that was very traumatic.
    You know, accordingly is anything else, you know,
    and if people say you can't afford
    that, you have to move in a one-room apartment,
    OK, I'll get rid of all that.
    And so, you know, people-- some people were--
    they say, "oh, you know we admire you."
    They don't realize that this-- isn't nothing to be admired.
    It's just-- it doesn't mean--
    And also, it's people heavily complain here about the food,
    including me.
    I hate it.
    But on the other hand, it's not--
    so if I don't go down, I don't eat,
    it's not that important to me.
    No.
    Yeah, but then I was a good student and a straight A
    student and all that.
    That was important, because I had to show myself
    that I can do it, too.
    Because Hitler always told us, you know, no, you are no good.
    You can't do anything.
    No.
    So in the beginning is with the--
    when I became a docent in the first--
    in the beginning when I had to give tours,
    you know, I was standing there at the rotunda, I always said,
    "Oh please, Lord, let nobody come."
    [CHUCKLING]
    Yeah, because basically I was frightened to death.
    Yeah.
    When I went for an interview, I usually
    was there a half an hour too early
    and walked the street to get my courage up
    to go in for an interview.
    And this stays with you.
    So there are lots of things.
    And as I said after the war, nobody ever
    thought about that we were in shock, that we need some help
    or anything.
    It's just, OK, it's over.
    Now start again.
    Did you ever turn to professional help,
    or are you just--
    No.
    No, you didn't.
    You just coped on your own.
    No.
    But then, you know, I thought, how can I talk
    to any American psychiatrist?
    They haven't experienced that.
    I don't have anything in common with them.
    You know, or even a Jewish psychiatrist.
    I would only have-- can talk to somebody
    who went through the same.
    And then this person might not want to talk to me.
    Because I would be too difficult.
    Yeah.
    Uh-huh.
    So it's, no I never did.
    And I think, considering all, I think I did I quite well.
    [LAUGHTER]
    Absolutely.
    Do you and your sisters still get reparations?
    Or did you get reparations?
    You said your mother did.
    Naja, we got--
    But do you and your sister currently?
    No.
    No.
    No, no, no.
    We don't.
    We got money.
    Yeah, my mother established that.
    She got the pension back from my father.
    And then we got the house back.
    Right.
    And you know, we divided the money for us.
    And in the beginning, yes, on this one
    you'll see that's one reason over there I stayed that long,
    because I took the money to go to the university in Germany
    and so on.
    And paid my trip over here.
    Right, right.
    To come over here and everything and so on.
    But no, we don't get anything from the--
    we both get something similar to the Social
    Security for Germany, but this is because I worked there.
    And they recognize our education.
    So they recognize my sister's university time and that.
    And the time she worked during the Nazi time for this lawyer.
    And the daughter of this lawyer, she went to a lawyer
    in Germany, and gave the--
    said that, yes, my sister worked there and all that.
    So she established that.
    And I went, and I get-- so we both get it.
    But it's very small, and with the exchange rate
    it doesn't amount to much.
    Right, right.
    But we both get a small amount from the Social Security
    in Germany.
    At least that, I'm pretty sure.
    But just so you all know, we don't get reparation
    from the government.
    No, no.
    And I can't-- but I know some people who have applied
    for German citizenship, Jewish people.
    Really?
    Because?
    I think they're old.
    Because they never officially wanted to give it up.
    But one is a daughter of two immigrants,
    so I don't know how she feels about it.
    I would never do that.
    I would never try to get German citizenship.
    Why not?
    I don't want to have any German passport.
    No!
    No.
    And as I said, it's still somewhat difficult for me
    to go to Germany.
    It's-- I mean, I'm OK when I'm with people I know and so on.
    But when I'm in the train, I sit there, and I can't even--
    I can't say a word in German and so on.
    And I definitely don't want my German citizenship back.
    No.
    I mean, if I would consider to go back to Germany,
    I would get better health insurance.
    But I don't think I want to do that.
    No.
    You are truly an American.
    Yeah.
    Yeah.
    Yeah, I can criticize the Americans when I'm here.
    But when I'm in Germany, I can't criticize them.
    [LAUGHTER]
    No, I don't.
    I don't.
    And so-- but it's remarkable, you know,
    when you think what the Germans did after the war,
    and they are hardworking.
    But then I think, half of the American population is German.
    Lots of them.
    For a while there was the question, which language they
    would take, English or German.
    New Amsterdam and all this, you know?
    God, no.
    And my husband was very American.
    He was very much.
    I remember when we went over to England,
    and we passed the Statue of Liberty, he had to get up.
    He had to see that.
    Meant a lot to him.
    And so on.
    No, he-- and you know, he went to the World War II Memorial
    opening and everything.
    Yeah.
    Well.
    OK.
    Well, that's a good note to end on, the Statue of Liberty.
    This concludes the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum
    interview with Ursula Guttstadt McKinney.

    Overview

    Interview Summary
    Ursula Guttstadt McKinney, born November 17, 1925 in Frankfurt an der Oder, Germany, discusses her family’s professional and religious background; her childhood and the troubles she faced obtaining schooling due to being half-Jewish; the difficulties her Jewish father and cousins faced; worrying about her father getting arrested; being able to say goodbye to her father when he was taken to prison and subsequently transported to Mauthausen in October 1942; receiving news that her father died; the Third Reich taking ownership of her family’s house; getting expelled from school in October 1942; moving to Berlin, Germany with her mother and sister; the psychological effects of the war, especially the bombings; her limited contact with the underground; working at a convent where there were some hidden Jewish children; her difficulties resuming a normal life after the war; her education after the war; feeling like an outcast because of being half-Jewish; immigrating, along with her sister, to the United States; not wanting to identify as German; her feelings on being a “mischling,” or having a mixed background; not identifying with one religion and being wed in an Unitarian church; and her work as a founding member of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.
    Interviewee
    Ursula Guttstadt McKinney
    Interviewer
    Gail Schwartz
    Date
    interview:  2010 August 31

    Physical Details

    Language
    English
    Extent
    3 digital files : WAV.

    Rights & Restrictions

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    Keywords & Subjects

    Administrative Notes

    Legal Status
    Permanent Collection
    Provenance
    The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Oral History Branch conducted the interview with Ursula Guttstadt McKinney on August 31, 2010. The interview was deposited in the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum archives in October 2010.
    Record last modified:
    2023-11-16 08:12:55
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    Summary (English)
    Time Coded Notes (3)

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    Also in United States Holocaust Memorial Museum oral history volunteer collection

    Consists of interviews with Holocaust survivors and concentration camp liberators conducted by United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Oral History Department volunteer staff. The interviewees, among them survivors from Hungary, Germany, Austria, France, Italy, and Poland, discuss their experiences of life before World War II, life in the ghettos, life in concentration camps, and life after the Holocaust.

    Date: 1993

    Oral history interview with Marie Schwartzman

    Oral History

    Marie Schwartzman discusses her early life in Paris, France; her large Polish family; her father’s arrest and imprisonment in Drancy; becoming the head of the family due to her mother’s illness; hiding house for three months; being arrested and sent to Drancy in October 1942; being deported to Auschwitz; living conditions in the camp; working in the crematorium sorting clothes; being marched to Ravensbrück in January 1945; living conditions in Prchin-Malkov camp; liberation by the Americans; turning in a German officer who was arrested; returning to Paris and Grenoble; immigrating to the United States in 1949; and marrying an American soldier.

    Oral history interview with Nathan Kalman

    Oral History

    Nathan Kalman (b. Natan Kalmonowitz) discusses his early life in Łódź, Poland; joining a Zionist organization in 1930; living on a kibbutz in Krakow for a year; marrying in 1939; the beginning of the German occupation; his mother’s work smuggling food; moving into the ghetto; the deaths of his mother, father, and son; being deported to Auschwitz in cattle cars; keeping a photo of his family in his shoe; conditions in Auschwitz; being moved to Gurlitz; working in an ammunition factory; liberation; remarrying; immigrating to the United States; and living in Israel from 1969-1989.

    Oral history interview with Esthy Adler

    Oral History

    Esthy Adler discusses not knowing her real name or when and where she was born, noting that many of her childhood memories are vague; her papers that say she was born in Kaliningrad, Russia, where she thinks her parents had a summer home; staying with her mother’s sister in a compound where there were frequent bombings; her mother’s death during their stay; her father’s remarriage, despite the family’s disapproval; how the Germans found her, her father, and stepmother; the last time she saw her father; how she, her aunt, cousins, and stepmother were relocated to another compound where they slept on cots in places similar to bunkers; seeing a man digging a ditch and holding a machine gun; being lined up and fired upon, but surviving; finding her way back to the barrack where she found her stepmother and another woman; being loaded onto a cattle car and taken to another location (possibly Treblinka); escaping into the forest with her stepmother via a hole and tunnel dug by another woman; living with a partisan group that consisted of Polish-Ukrainian prisoners of war and Russian deserters; the death of her stepmother by machine gun fire in the winter of 1942; being shot; becoming ill from drinking poisoned water and being nursed back to health by a peasant; living with a woman named Margot who got her a job in a factory sewing pants; leaving her job after a man paid for her to go to a private school; living with the Katz family; becoming legally independent after she turned 18; attending graduate school and being accepted into a program where she was trained as a paralegal; meeting her future husband Jim Adler at the University of Heidelberg in 1954; and immigrating to the United States.

    Oral history interview with Tana Gelfer

    Oral History

    Tana Gelfer, born October 7, 1939 in Berlin, Germany, discusses her parents Herman George Reichman and Johanna Kahn and her family background in Gelsenkirchen, Germany; how her father lost his banking job after the Nazi party came to power; her father’s arrest on December 27, 1942; never finding out what happened to her father; her deportation with her mother to Theresienstadt; living conditions in Theresienstadt; sharing a bunk with her mother; how her mother worked in the fields harvesting crops and sorted through prisoners’ belongings; being hospitalized frequently; how a woman in the camp, Minnie Simon, gave birth to a son in secret; how Minnie Simon, her husband Fritz, and their child all survived; being made to watch, along with other small children, the cruel treatment of men who were brought into the camp from trains; her and her mother’s liberation by Russian forces; living with her grandmother in Berlin; immigrating to the United States; marrying and raising a family; and how her mother helped sponsor several people emigrate from Germany to the United States.

    Oral history interview with Maria Devinki

    Oral History

    Maria Devinki, born June 1, 1920 in Hannover, Germany, discusses her family’s move to central Poland; her parents’ successful business there; the Nazi invasion of Poland; how Jews were forced to live in a ghetto; having to give up her large house; her father’s deportation to Treblinka where he perished; marrying her fiancé and being hidden with family members by a Polish farmer in small underground space; traveling with her husband to Regensburg, Germany to wait for U.S. visas; and settling in Kansas City, MO.

    Oral history interview with Jerome Stasson

    Oral History

    Jerome Stasson (b. Jerome Stashevsky) discusses his early life in Detroit, Michigan; coming from a family of Polish immigrants; being drafted into the U.S. army in 1943; following General Patton to Germany from England; liberating Buchenwald; his first impressions of the camp; speaking Yiddish to the survivors; destroying the letters he sent home to his family due to their distress; and his memories of the smell of the camp.

    Oral history interview with Adriana Pacifici

    Oral History

    Adriana Funaro, born in Rome, Italy on July 28, 1923, describes her early life in Rome, Italy; being expelled from public school in 1938 and afterward attending a Jewish school and a Catholic school; her father’s decision not to emigrate; a doctor’s efforts to help her father avoid a roundup in 1943; hiding with her sister in a Dominican convent; living under a false name; learning prayers while hiding; working in a partisan group while in hiding; the arrival of American soldiers; marrying a childhood friend; immigrating to the United States; and her nightmares about the war years.

    Oral history interview with Ernest Kolben

    Oral History

    Ernest Kolben describes his early life in Vienna, Austria; feeling like an outcast at school; his brother’s arrest and imprisonment in Dachau on Kristallnacht; changing conditions for the Jewish community; being sent to Theresienstadt; living and work conditions in the camp; being moved to Auschwitz in September 1944; volunteering to move to Buchenwald; arriving instead at Kaufering, near Dachau; being force marched to Camp Allach; liberation by American soldiers; his 30 day hospitalization; working for the Counterintelligence Corps to find SS members; returning to Vienna; marrying; immigrating to Montreal; moving to Chicago; and splitting his time between Vienna and the US.

    Oral history interview with Henry Kolber

    Oral History

    Henry Kolber (b. Hirsch Kolber), born June 6, 1923 in Przysietnica, Poland, discusses his early life in Barcice, Poland; moving with his family to Nowy Sacz, Poland after the German invasion; how the Germans shot and killed 15 Jews and selected 100 other Jews, including his father, to be locked up overnight; working as a grave digger with his father after the Aktions; how he was selected by the Judenrat to go to Rabka, Poland; upon arrival he discovered it was a school to train Ukrainian volunteers to become SS; being assigned work to dig a shooting gallery in the mountains where the new recruits would learn to shoot; covering graves and filling them with dirt and antiseptic; the commander, Rosenbaum, whom he testified against in Hamburg, Germany in 1968; his parents’ deaths in Treblinka; being sent to Krakow to build Płaszów concentration camp; being transferred to Auschwitz; marching in December 1944 in the snow for two days then being taken to Buchenwald by train; living in the barracks with Elie Wiesel; being liberated by American troops; moving to Switzerland with the help of the Red Cross; immigrating to the United States in 1947; and his marriage and children.

    Oral history interview with Ruth Greifer

    Oral History

    Ruth Greifer (b. Ruth Dahl) discusses her childhood in Geilenkirchen, Germany, and Mastricht, Netherlands; her experiences during the German invasion of the Netherlands; her life in hiding during World War II; her reunion with her parents after World War II; and her life in the United States after 1948

    Oral history interview with Anna Wollner

    Oral History

    Anna Wollner (b. Jakab) discusses her early life in Nagy-Varad, Transylvania (Oradea, Romania); her fiance’s conscription into forced labor; his return and their marriage; being forced into a ghetto; her feelings about wearing the Jewish star; being sent to Auschwitz; being transferred to Stutthof; her friend Suzy, who taught her to sabotage the materials they were working on; being moved to Riga, Latvia by boat; building roads out of Jewish headstones; acts of violence by guards; being marched back to Germany (near Gdansk, Poland); liberation by Russian soldiers; witnessing rapes; returning to Budapest, Hungary; reuniting with her husband; leaving for Munich, Germany after the communists arrived; immigrating to the United States in 1949; divorcing and moving to Israel; returning to the United States; and her feelings about German reparations.

    Oral history interview with Kate Wacz

    Oral History

    Kate Wacz (née Katalin Kadelburger), born in 1932, discusses her childhood in Budapest, Hungary; her father’s death performing forced labor; going to the Jewish gymnasium; the Germans arriving in March 1944; the school closures; moving to the ghetto; anti-Jewish violence from members of the Arrow Cross Party; the Allied bombings in January 1945; living conditions in the ghetto; liberation; readjusting to life after the war; her mother becoming a Swedish citizen; getting passage to Sweden in 1951; and her life after the war.

    Oral history interview with Erwin Forley

    Oral History

    Erwin Forley (b. Feuerstein) discusses his childhood in Košice, Czechoslovakia, (now Slovakia) and Munkacs, Hungary (now Mukacheve, Ukraine); his life in the Munkacs ghetto; his family's deportation to Auschwitz at the hands of Hungarian gendarmes; his work in Budy, a sub camp for farming near Auschwitz; his experiences with Kapos in Auschwitz, some of whom he describes as homosexuals; the evacuation of Auschwitz and liberation by Russian troops; his return to Mukacheve; his reunion with his mother and sister; and the family's life in the United States after 1946.

    Oral history interview with Ernie Marx

    Oral History

    Ernie Marx (né Ernest Ludwig), born in Gelnhausen, Germany on November 8, 1925, discusses his childhood in Gelnhausen and Speyer am Rhein, Germany; his experiences during Kristallnacht; his arrest by the Gestapo and imprisonment in Dachau along with his father in November 1938; his father's work to organize Kindertransports of Jewish children from the Rhein area to France; his travel to France on a Kindertransport; his imprisonment in Gurs concentration camp; his involvement in the Maquis resistance group in France; his reunion with his mother and brother after World War II; and his life in the United States after 1947.

    Oral history interview with Doris Rauch

    Oral History

    Doris Rauch, born August 26, 1920 in Brno, Czechoslovakia (Czech Republic), discusses her childhood in Brno; the death of her father in 1936; the German invasion of Czechoslovakia; being unable to attend a German-speaking university because she was a Jew; attending a textile school; working in a factory; buying goods on the black market; her deportation to Theresienstadt on a passenger train; volunteering to work planting trees in Bohemia with her mother; returning to Theresienstadt after six weeks; avoiding transports to the East; being put on a transport in September 1942 along with her mother and boyfriend; being taken to Raasiku, Estonia and separated from her mother; being taken to Tallinn, Estonia in December 1942 to clear rubble for the Holzmann construction firm; being taken to a camp in Ereda at the end of 1943; how she and other women stopped menstruating; working in the forest; a romantic relationship between a prisoner and an SS commander; being given a ring by male inmate; contracting hepatitis in Ereda; being taken to Stutthof; how she had written in a diary every day in Estonia; being very sick; arriving at Bergen-Belsen in April 1945; taking another prisoner’s place to work in a factory; finding fliers saying that the Allies were approaching; being taken to the Danish border at the end of April 1945 and turned over to the Danish Red Cross who provided food, care, and new clothing; living in Sweden for two years working as a secretary for the World Jewish Congress; living with two women she met in the camps; moving to the United States in May 1947 and experiencing culture shock; marrying and moving to Chicago, then Pittsburg, and then to Washington D.C.; the effect of her experiences on her religious beliefs; and reparations from Germany.

    Oral history interview with Joseph Elman

    Oral History

    Joseph Elman, born February 5, 1922 in Pruzhany, Poland (present day Belarus), discusses the German and Russian occupations of Pruzhany; his memories of the murder of 11 Jews in Pruzhany by Nazis; being forced into slave labor; the relocation of his family into the ghetto; daily living conditions in the ghetto, which included starvation and crowding; his work in the ghetto’s food department; the liquidation of the ghetto starting in January 1943; his father’s membership in the Judenrat; his father’s suicide; how he and others built a bunker in the ghetto; his contact with a resistance group which was smuggling weapons into the ghetto; his escape from the ghetto with a large group of people during the liquidation; his experience living in the woods as part of a partisan group; forming family bonds with members of the group; liberation by the Russian Army; returning to his home in Pruzhany to find a family living there; living with this family for a period of time; moving to Bialystok, Poland to join his brother; settling in Łódź, Poland; and immigrating to the United States in 1947.

    Oral history interview with Gerald Rosenstein

    Oral History

    Gerald Rosenstein (b. Gerhard Rosenstein) describes his early life in Darmstadt, Germany; being attacked and beaten by a schoolmate’s father as a child; immigrating to Amsterdam with his family in May 1940; trying to leave for England after the German occupation; the persecutions Amsterdam’s Jewish community faced; being separated from his family in Westerbork; being sent to Theresienstadt; reuniting with his parents there; living conditions in Theresienstadt; partaking in propaganda for the Red Cross; being deported to Auschwitz with his father; being transferred to Gleiwitz; working conditions in camp; being marched to Blechhammer in January 1945; how he felt at liberation; traveling through Poland, Romania, and Odessa before boarding a Red Cross ship to Paris;

    Oral history interview with Ivan Becker

    Oral History

    Ivan Becker, born in 1929, discusses his childhood in Budapest, Hungary; his memories of the "hanging priest of Budapest" who killed Jews for refusing conversion to Christianity; the Nazi invasion of Hungary; harsh restrictions on Jews; his father who was sent to Buchenwald; being sent on a death march with his mother from Budapest towards Austria; being separated from his mother and never seeing her again; his life in hiding; his experiences in an unnamed ghetto; his return to Budapest after liberation; his time in a displaced persons camp in Bad Gastein, Austria; his immigration to the United States as a "war orphan" in 1946; and his adjustment to life after the Holocaust and success in business.

    Oral history interview with Romana Koplewicz

    Oral History

    Romana Koplewicz (née Margitte), born April 26, 1919 in Warsaw, Poland, describes her pre-war life in Poland; her parents and sister; her father’s dye factory; her education at a private Jewish school; her law school education at the University of Joseph Pilsudski in Warsaw; the antisemitism she experienced in law school; meeting her husband in 1936; her inability to complete law school due to anti-Jewish legislation; the beginning of the war and ghettoization in Warsaw; working in her father’s factory; her father’s arrest and return in the spring of 1940; the liquidation of the ghetto; her work sewing German uniforms; her escape with her family from numerous selections; the false papers she and her sister acquired in 1943; her work in the ghetto in a manufacturing factory; working as a housekeeper to survive; her time in Otwock Poland working as a chambermaid in summer 1944 at a convent; her escape to Grodzisko Mazovieckie, Poland because the Gestapo were looking for her; her time working for a German in Warsaw; the Warsaw ghetto uprising; the ghetto’s evacuation and her transfer to Piastów, Poland; her survival and return to Warsaw; her reunion with her husband and their marriage; leaving Warsaw for Germany with her husband; her time in Germany with her husband waiting for their visa to the United States; her immigration to the United States in May 1949; her master’s degree in social work; and her two children and her life in the U.S.

    Oral history interview with Joseph Koplewicz

    Oral History

    Joseph Koplewicz, born December 7, 1915 in Kielce, Poland, describes his pre-war life in Kielce; his parents and siblings; his father’s occupation as a businessman; his education in Kielce and law school education in Warsaw; his family’s religious attitudes; his experiences with antisemitism while attending law school; the beginning of the war; his arrest in Kielce for not wearing a Star of David badge; the ghettoization of Warsaw; performing forced labor in Warsaw; his father’s death due to health complications; his stay with his sister and her husband in a comfortable apartment; his marriage in 1942; being wounded in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising; his transfer to Majdanek concentration camp; his transfer to Budzyn labor camp near Krasnik, Poland until February 1944; his transfer to Mielec, Poland where he worked as a draftsman until July 1944; his short time in Wieliczka, Flossenbürg, Litomerice, and Dachau; his transfer to Augsburg, Germany where he worked in airport construction; his time in Kaufering and Nuremburg; a forced march to Landshut, Germany where the SS guards in charge fled; the marchers subsequent scattering; his survival and return to Poland; his reunion with his wife; their decision to leave Poland and immigrate to the United States in 1949; and his post-war life in the United States.

    Oral history interview with Irving Schaffer

    Oral History

    Irving Schaffer, born May 26, 1928 in Chust, Czechoslovakia (present day Khust, Ukraine), discusses growing up in an Orthodox family; his early education; a teacher beating him in front of the class in 1943; experiencing antisemitism before the war; his father’s arrest for receiving milk from a neighbor; the deportation of his father and brother to labor camps; his family’s eviction from their home and deportation to the Chust Ghetto; conditions of the ghetto, such as the Jewish leadership; his assignment as a messenger and pass to leave the ghetto; smuggling in bread from outside the ghetto; people being punished for being Hungarian; being transported by train from the ghetto after three weeks; how partisans blew up the train and told prisoners to jump off and escape; arriving at Auschwitz in the spring of 1944; his memories of Dr. Mengele; being separated from the rest of his family at Auschwitz; being sent to Warsaw, Poland after only three days at Auschwitz; working to clean out the Warsaw Ghetto; prisoners escaping from the Warsaw ghetto; being marched out of the ghetto in August 1944; arriving at Kutno on the German and Polish border; being transported by train to Dachau; living in Camp Seven and working in Mühldorf in an ammunition factory; stealing potatoes and bartering with other prisoners; being transported from Dachau; finding a train transporting sugar that had been bombed and eating the hot sugar; being transported to the Landshut camp; working in Landsberg, Germany; a bombing by American planes; being released by the Germans and then chased down and beaten into a coma; waking up in a German hospital; organizations that assisted in reconnecting families, such as UNRRA and the Joint Distribution Committee; being liberated in Feldmoching, Germany; finding his brother in Chust; how the Russians did not let him leave Chust; escaping across borders into Germany; attending school in Munich, Germany; and immigrating to the United States in 1947.

    Oral history interview with William Klein

    Oral History

    William Klein, born in 1924, discusses growing up in Užhorod, Czechoslovakia (present day Uzhhorod, Ukraine), in a large family; attending Jewish school until the sixth grade, then entering a public high school; the friendliness between Jews and non-Jews in Užhorod; his two older brothers leaving in 1940 for Yugoslavia and Russia with the army; Jews being made to wear the yellow Star of David badge and comply with a curfew beginning in 1942; hearing rumors about Jews being killed in Poland; being forced into the ghetto in January or February 1944; being taken by train to Auschwitz in the spring of 1944; last seeing his parents and sister as they went through the selection process at Auschwitz; being advised by a kapo to volunteer for work outside the camp when he had the opportunity; being taken to what had been the Warsaw Ghetto along with his brother and brother-in-law to demolish buildings and clear debris; finding gold pieces in an abandoned house where he was working and hiding them in a belt; prisoners making up songs and singing as they worked; being forced to march to Dachau as the Russians advanced towards Warsaw; witnessing the death of a rabbi he and his brother had helped on the march; staying in Dachau for a few days; volunteering to work at a construction site; being seriously injured on the construction site and being helped by fellow prisoners, including one who was a doctor; escaping with his brother and brother-in-law from a train and hiding in a farmhouse as the Americans liberated the area; reuniting with his surviving family members in Bratislava and Užhorod; living in Sudetenland and then in a series of displaced persons camps in Germany (Wasserburg, Föhrenwald, and Bremerhaven) and applying to move to the United States; having his application delayed after being accused of being a communist; moving to Chicago in 1951; his pride in his Jewish identity; health problems caused by beatings he received during his time as a prisoner; telling his children about his experiences; and his response to the question of why he does not hate.

    Oral history interview with George Pisik

    Oral History

    George Pisik, born May 25, 1925, describes his experience as a soldier in the U.S. Army’s 15th armored division, 10th infantry battalion; entering Dachau in May 1945 without any prior knowledge of concentration camps; his battalion’s doctor trying to help the prisoners; searching a guard who was subsequently taken by prisoners and killed in the barracks; meeting a 19 year-old female prisoner in Dachau and giving her the mezuzah his grandmother had given him to wear; receiving almost 100 mezuzahs from his family and friends after writing them; giving these mezuzahs to chaplains to distribute and to his fellow soldiers, telling them they were good luck charms; entering Munich and seeing the giant swastika on Munich Stadium, which his commander ordered to be destroyed by tank fire; seeing Germans surrender; conflicts with German civilians; suffering from trench foot and impetigo; returning to the United States expecting to be sent to Japan but staying after the bombing of Hiroshima; after his homecoming, using a swastika flag as a doormat, which drew the attention of the neighborhood and the police when his mother washed it and hung it out to dry; bringing home pistols which his mother took to the army depot to be deactivated; returning to college; his frustration with Holocaust deniers, including a Catholic priest he met in 1950 in Louisiana; the failings of the Catholic Church during the Holocaust; his feelings towards the Germans; his belief that a holocaust could happen again; his level of religious involvement; and the importance of education in preventing another holocaust.

    Oral history interview with Ruth Rosicka

    Oral History

    Ruth Rosicka, born August 13, 1919 in Nowice, Czechoslovakia (present day Poland), describes her Polish father who was actively pro-Zion; escaping bombing in Bielsko, Poland; escaping through Krakow, Poland and being found by the Russian army; being deported to a camp in Siberia from which she was amnestied in 1941; being drafted by the Czechoslovakian army and working in the medical brigade, where in 1944 she met her husband; being taken to the Carpathian Mountains, to the war front, where they stayed until February 1945; being released from the Army in May 1945 because of her pregnancy; and living in Prague, Czech Republic after the war.

    Oral history interview with Salomon Cohen

    Oral History

    Salomon Cohen, born July 28, 1937 in Athens, Greece, discusses how his family escaped to the south of Greece in February 1943 with the help of partisans; hiding with his family in the mountains for six months; how the partisans obtained food from monasteries in the mountains for his family; using false names while in hiding; traveling to Izmir, Turkey then Syria; being captured by English troops; how the family was taken to British camps in the Gaza Strip; their escape with the help of a Jewish agency; traveling to Ted Aviv, Israel, where they lived from 1944 to 1952; going into the army as a tank fighter; going to Haifa, Israel after leaving the army; getting married and having children; and his visits to Greece.

    Oral history interview with Suzanne Foldes

    Oral History

    Suzanne Foldes (b. Zsuzsi Morvai) discusses her childhood in Miskolc, Hungary; her Jewish and Christian schooling; pre-war antisemitism; training as a gymnast but being denied entry into the Olympics because she was Jewish; her father’s conscription into Hungarian forced labor; getting married in 1942 to Paul Berkowitz; terminating a pregnancy; the German occupation of Hungary; being confined to a ghetto; being transported to Auschwitz by cattle car; learning of her mother’s death by gassing; moving to Buchenwald; how she was good at stealing coal; liberation; returning to Budapest after the war; reuniting with her father; learning of her husband’s death; marrying a friend from before the war; immigrating to the United States in 1956; and speaking about her wartime experiences beginning in the 1990s.

    Oral history interview with Tibor Vince

    Oral History

    Tibor Vince, born in 1910, describes his childhood near Budapest, Hungary; his medical studies in Italy; his escape to Cuba at the outbreak of World War II; his immigration to the United States; his work as a physician in the United States Army; his experiences at Dachau shortly after liberation; his medical treatment of Allied prisoners of war; and his life in New York, NY after 1945.

    Oral history interview with Elias Piorko

    Oral History

    Elias Piorko, born on May 15, 1919, discusses his childhood in Zambrów, Poland; his life in a kibbutz near Slonim, Poland (now Belarus); his experiences with forced labor in Russia; being in four different camps; his travels through Europe on the way to Italy after World War II; and his life in the United States after 1950.

    Oral history interview with Benjamin Hildesheim

    Oral History

    Benjamin (Beniek) Hildesheim discusses his childhood in Sieradz, Poland; his experiences with antisemitism and Jewish persecution in Sieradz before the Holocaust; his time in the ghettos of Sieradz and Łódź, Poland; his adoption by Chaim Rumkowski; his imprisonment at Auschwitz, Babice/Babitz (a small agricultural camp west of Auschwitz), and Buchenwald concentration camps; his participation in a death march to Theresienstadt, where he remained until liberation; his time in Prague, Czechoslovakia (Czech Republic), immediately after liberation; his immigration to Palestine in the first Aliyah after World War II in 1945; his participation in the Israel-Arab War of 1948 to 1949; and his life in Brazil and the United States after 1962.

    Oral history interview with Peter Masters

    Oral History

    Peter Masters (né Peter Arany), born February 5, 1922, in Vienna, Austria, describes his prewar life in Vienna; his Viennese mother and Hungarian father; his escape to Britain after the Anschluss in 1938; his family’s internment as “friendly aliens;” his family’s reclassification as enemy aliens in Britain; his experiences volunteering for special hazardous duty in Britain and being assigned the 3rd Group, 10th Commando, an elite paratroop unit mostly consisting of Jewish or political refugees; his identity being anglicized for his protection; his work to petition for the recognition of Austrians who perished fighting the Nazis; his many family members who perished during the war; and his 1997 book, Striking back: A Jewish commando’s war against the Nazis, which he wrote as a counterpoint to the idea the Jews did not fight back during the Holocaust.

    Oral history interview with Joseph Wolke

    Oral History

    Joseph Wolke (Wolkeovich), born July 14, 1919 in Tomashov (Tomaszów Mazowiecki), Poland, discusses his family background and religious upbringing; his father’s successful farm outside the city; the rise of Hitler and antisemitism; racial laws against Jews; being deported during Rosh Hashanah; arriving in Krakow, Poland on a cattle train; his disbelief that the war would last so long; escaping from the Germans and returning to Tomashov by bus; how the farm provided for the family; increases in the deportation of Jews; living in the Tomashov ghetto; smuggling food into the ghetto; the liquidation of the ghetto on November 1, 1942; the mass burial of Jews in the ghetto for which he was forced to dig graves; being deported to Bergen-Belsen; being transferred on a cattle train to Auschwitz; forced labor digging ditches outside the camp; being relocated to Gross-Rosen camp; the death march from Rosen, which lasted over a week; starvation during the march; liberation by Russian forces; returning home to Poland; meeting his wife and having a child; immigrating to the United States in August 1950; living in Baltimore, MD with his wife’s family; adjusting to American life; creating a business; and learning the fate of his family members in the years following the war.

    Oral history interview with Ionel Ghelman

    Oral History

    Ionel Ghelman, born on March 27, 1929 in Bucharest, Romania, discusses his mother’s death in 1938 and being raised by his maternal aunt; experiencing antisemitism; seeing boys in 1936 practicing to be in the Iron Guard in the future; the German occupation in 1940; the events in January 1941, including pogroms, stores being burned, and Jews being killed; ration cards and how Jews’ ration cards were half of Rumanians’ cards; the Allied bombardments of Bucharest from late 1943 to early 1944; seeing Russian tanks and troops in August 1944; leaving school in 1946 to work in a locomotive factory; rejecting the Communist Youth Party and feeling a connection to Zionist Hashomer Hatzair; going to Bukovina to prepare for kibbutz in Israel; the banning of Zionist organizations in 1949; being a draftsman for oil pipeline company from 1948 to 1950; marrying a Romanian woman in 1956; his children; being expelled from the Communist Party because parents went to Israel; getting visas for Hungary, France, and Germany in 1976; going to New York in April 21, 1977 with the help of HIAS; and settling in Washington and working for Bechtel.

    Oral history interview with Irimia Solomon

    Oral History

    Irimia Solomon, born on November 3, 1924 in Dorohoi, Romania, describes his parents, who were divorced; how he and his mother lived with his grandparents in Falticeni, Romania; his granfather’s farm; the Jewish community in the town and his family not being particularly religious; Jews in Moldovan cities; his education; playing soccer with non-Jewish children; hearing about antisemitism; wanting to go to Palestine; going to school in Bucharest, Romania to learn a trade; his relationship with his father; an uprising in Romania in September 1940; the Iron Guard (Garda de Fier); returning to Falticeni in December 1941; going to Dorohoi; his father being taken away in June 1942; being taken to forced work, unloading rail cards and sweeping; being deported with his mother to Transnistria and conditions during the journey there; having to trade in their Romanian money for Russian rubles; arriving in Sharhorod, Ukraine; being housed in a synagogue for several weeks; staying in a room in a house of a Christian family with other Jews; being in a ghetto, where there was religious life but no cultural life; building roads and sleeping overnight in rail cars outfitted with bunk bed; typhus in Sharhorod and helping to bury the dead; his mother not working and staying indoors; being helped by a cousin’s Christian husband; being taken back to Dorohoi in December 1943; moving from house to house until they could contact relatives; not feeling relief or happiness; his mother being treated as a war widow and being allowed to sell certain items, such as stamps, alcohol, and tobacco; returning to school and going to the polytechnic in 1945; waiting from 1958 to 1972 to get a passport; going to Israel, where his wife did not like the heat; going to Canada, where they settled in Toronto; working as an engineer; and moving to Montreal.

    Oral history interview with Lotte Salus

    Oral History

    Lotte Salus (b. Charlotte Helena Cohen) discusses her childhood living near the Dutch border in Germany; working for a Jewish family; being arrested and pressed into labor after Kristallnacht; being sent to Amsterdam, Netherlands by her father; living with other Jewish teenagers in The Hague, Netherlands; learning her family had been deported to Westerbork; moving to Amsterdam in May 1940; receiving orders to register with the police; being deported to Westerbork; reuniting with her family; daily life in Westerbork; volunteering to go to Theresienstadt with her parents in 1944; her experiences in the camps Auschwitz, Stutthof, and Praust; being taken on a death march in March 1945; liberation by the Russians; sexual violence perpetrated by the Russians; returning to Germany; immigrating to the United States in 1949; and marrying and starting a family.

    Oral history interview with Irena Kirkland

    Oral History

    Irena Neumann discusses her childhood in Prague, Czechoslovakia (Czech Republic); not having a Jewish identity or religious education; evacuating Prague before the Munich Agreement; returning to the city and learning she was Jewish; adapting to restrictions placed on Jews; her feelings about wearing the yellow star; being deported to Theresienstadt with her family; daily life in the camp; contracting encephalitis; being deported to Auschwitz; conditions in camps Auschwitz and Sachsen Chemnitz; returning to Theresienstadt in May 1945; reuniting with her parents; liberation by Russian soldiers; returning to Prague; beginning university; being arrested and released by communists; and immigrating to the United States in 1956.

    Oral history interview with Hans Hirsch

    Oral History

    Hans George Hirsch discusses his early life in Stuttgart, Germany; his father’s role as executive director of the German Jewish Community; graduating gymnasium in 1934; prewar antisemitism; the difficulties he experienced attending university and holding a job in Nazi Germany; visiting Palestine in 1937; receiving a visa to leave for the United States in 1937; working on farms in the U.S.; trying to get his parents out of Europe; teaching German prisoners of war farm management from 1943 to 1946; his career trajectory in food administration and policy; and his retirement from foreign agricultural service.

    Oral history interview with Milton Shurr

    Oral History

    Milton Shurr, born January 28, 1911 in the United States, describes his work with the Jewish Welfare Fund in Oklahoma City, OK in the early 1940s; his draft into the military and entering Officer’s Candidate School; being shipped overseas to England, where he worked in preparation for D-Day in June 1944; his recruitment by the Civil Affairs Unit of the Military Government to gather and identify medical supplies left behind on Omaha Beach, France; helping to provide food for the 15,000 survivors of Buchenwald and working with the Red Cross and Joint Distribution Committee; traveling to Bavaria, Germany to work has a health welfare officer; working to reopen schools, hospitals, banks, and other institutions in Germany; maintaining correspondence with his wife in America during the war; returning to the United States after the war and moving to Chicago as an assistant in health planning; and sharing what he had witnessed in Buchenwald after years of being unable to speak about it.

    Oral history interview with Ludwig Jacob

    Oral History

    Ludwig Jacob discusses his early life in Schmalkalden, Germany; being arrested with his parents on Kristallnacht; being imprisoned in Buchenwald for a month; leaving on a Kindertransport to Holland; living in a children’s home; the German invasion; moving to his brother’s home in Amsterdam; the arrest of his brother, who subsequently was imprisoned and died in Mauthausen; receiving a deportation notice; choosing to live under a false identity; moving to Paris, France and working with the underground; sabotaging the German defense organization where he worked; being denounced and arrested; spending time in Fresnes prison before being deported to Drancy; jumping off the train on the way to Buchenwald; rejoining the resistance; working for Americans in Paris; immigrating to the United States in 1947; and his marriage and life in the US.

    Oral history interview with Barbara Artman

    Oral History

    Barbara Feuerstein Artman, born September 12, 1923 in Kosice, Czechoslovakia (now Slovakia), discusses her parents Elizabeth and Henry Feuerstein and two younger brothers; her 14 aunts and uncles and 27 first cousins, who all perished in the Holocaust; her family’s move to Mukacheve, Czechoslovakia (now Ukraine), which in March 1939 was occupied by Hungry; the Nazi invasion of Hungary in 1944; being forced to live in a ghetto; conditions in the ghetto; her deportation with her family to Auschwitz; conditions in Auschwitz; the treatment of camp guards; being sent to a labor camp near Breslau (now Wroclaw, Poland) with her mother; their liberation by the Russians while on a march; walking, at the end of the war, to Krakow; reuniting with one brother; attending medical school but changing her major to chemistry; contacting uncles in United States who arranged for visas and transportation to the US for her, her mother, and her brother; and settling in Forest Hills, NY, where she married another refugee and had one son.

    Oral history interview with Fritz Schonbach

    Oral History

    Fritz (né Frederic) Schonbach, born in 1920, discusses his middle-class childhood in Vienna, Austria; attending private school until Jewish restrictions began in 1938; how life changed with the Nazi annexation of Austria; antisemitism in Austria and the terror campaigns; fleeing to Italy then to England in 1939; his family fleeing to Argentina while he remained in England; his internment in England because of his Austrian background; volunteering for the Australian army; daily life in the army; being discharged in 1946; enrolling in art school after the war; meeting his wife; reuniting with family in Argentina; immigrating to the United States in 1959; and discovering what happened to various family members in the war.

    Oral history interview with Charles Barber

    Oral History

    Charles Barber, born in 1932 in Budapest, Hungary, describes his father, who owned a liquor store; attending a public grade school, where some of the non-Jews wouldn't speak with him; his memories of the first bomb being dropped in Budapest in 1939; his father being drafted into the labor corps of the Hungarian army; his mother’s work as a tailor; being an only child; his father dying after two months in the labor corps; his mother being taken to a camp for eight months in 1943; living with several different people; his mother returning home; his memories of feeling guilty for telling his mother that he was hungry; the Jews being summoned to the courthouse in town and being separated from his mother by the officials; going to live in an orphanage with a Swedish flag out front; the Russian army and their activities in Budapest; his aunt sending him to the Red Cross then a Zionist orphanage in Sagat; returning to Budapest to work in a factory; attending law school but leaving when the revolution began; going to Austria and then the United States with the help of the Red Cross; living with an uncle in the US; becoming an accountant, attending Queensborough Community College and then Bernard Baruch College; working for ABC Transnational Transport; getting married to an Austrian Holocaust survivor; the effects of his Holocaust experience; losing his faith when he lost his parents; visiting Europe; antisemitism in Hungary; wanting to go to Israel; possessing a letter from his mother, which she wrote while she was in Bergen-Belsen, and a picture of his parents (which is in the USHMM Photo Archive); and his other family pictures.

    Oral history interview with Tibor Borsos

    Oral History

    Tibor Borsos, born on March 12, 1927 in Budapest, Hungary, describes his highly intellectual Catholic family; his family moving to Debrecen in 1936; having many Jewish friends; how he “looked Jewish” and was sometimes made fun of; his family’s possession of an American flag, National Geographic magazines, and a censored version of Time magazine; his family burning the American flag March 21, 1944 to be safe; his family storing carpets, silver, and jewelry for Jewish friends and hiding them in the university library; his mother being denounced, arrested, and released; his family leaving Debrecen in May 1944; witnessing Jews being rounded up; going to Budapest and living next door to a Swedish protected house; the closing of schools in the fall of 1944; his family going in December 1944 to Halle an der Saale, Germany, where his father taught in a medical school; being drafted into the Hungarian Army in March 1945 and riding on a train for two months to avoid finding his unit; finding his brother on May 8, 1945 in Mitterald; being rounded up by Patton’s troops and sent to Ludwigshafen, Germany; being sent to a POW camp in Heilbronn; going to Gottingen in the British Occupation Zone; sailing to the United States in December 1949 on the USS Harry Taylor; earning a Ph.D. in chemistry at Johns Hopkins; researching cancer at NIH; marrying a survivor of Bergen-Belsen; and his feelings about not being officially Jewish.

    Oral history interview with Robert Kertesz

    Oral History

    Robert Kertesz, born in 1933, discusses his childhood in Budapest, Hungary; antisemitism in Budapest; his family; his religious upbringing; being stuck in Hungary due to travel restrictions; his father being conscripted into the Hungarian Army; the Hungarian Nazis and Arrow Cross Party members in his neighborhood; the increasing antisemitism and abuse; how the ghetto grew in 1943; finding safe houses for children; escaping from the ghetto after his parent’s deportation; hiding in his Christian aunt’s home; returning to Budapest to escape violence; returning to the ghetto; living conditions in the ghetto; liberation by the Soviets; looting by the Soviet Army in the city; working as a guide and interpreter for Russians; his parents’ return; living in a displaced persons camp; immigrating to the United States in 1948; and his life in the U.S.

    Oral history interview with Fred Kahn

    Oral History

    Fred Kahn, born December 19, 1932 in Wiesbaden, Germany, describes being raised until he was six years old by an aunt (Rosa Nassauer) in Wehen, Germany; his older brother, Walter; his Christian friend, Walter Kaltwasser, who protected him from young Nazis; being raised religious by his aunt and uncle; his grandfather dying in 1938; being sent after the Munich Agreement to Aachen, Germany, where he crossed the border and joined his parents and brother in Verviers, Belgium; his father’s successful career as playing bridge; his aunt and uncle being sent to Łódź, Poland; starting school in Belgium; his parents and life in Verviers; going to Liege and Brussels in May 1940 with his family; returning to Verviers; Jews having to register; the small right-wing party, Rexiste, which collaborated with the Nazis; his father being interrogated; getting false identities with the last name Jejeune; being taught Catholic prayers; getting scarlet fever in the spring of 1942; leaving his school after getting in a fight; his principal helping him; going into hiding and the various ways he entertained himself; moving from village to village in 1943; getting a job in 1944, carrying milk; being liberated in September 1944 by the American Army; life when he was in hiding; his mother’s accused of being a German spy and arrested; the Battle of the Bulge; events he heard about involving the underground; factors that helped him survive; developing a sense of humor; and considering Verviers his hometown.

    Oral history interview with Susan Warsinger

    Oral History

    Susan Warsinger (née Hilsinrath), born in 1929, discusses her family and childhood in Bad Kreuznach, Germany; her memories of Kristallnacht; escaping to Paris, France; being homeless; fleeing to Versailles when the Germans invaded; going to Château des Morelles, a home for homeless children; her schooling; getting tickets to the United States from the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society; immigrating to the U.S. in 1941; her life in the U.S.; her feelings about returning home to Europe; and her life since the war.

    Oral history interview with Arnold Weiss

    Oral History

    Hans Arnold Wangesheim, born in Nuremberg, Germany on July 25, 1924, describes his parents divorcing in 1930; his mother placing him in a very strict Jewish orphanage in Furth; his encounters with Hitler youth; getting passage on a Kindertransport with help of Quakers in 1938; going to Chicago, IL then Milwaukee, WI; running away from a Jewish orphanage and being placed with a family in Janesville, WI; attending a watchmaker’s college; enlisting in 1942 in the Army Air Corps and being a B-17 tail gunner; his training plane crashing in Utah in 1943 and being severely injured; going to OSS (Office of Strategic Services) in Washington in 1944; going in late 1944 to Paris, France then Germany; crossing the Rhine with the 4th Division behind German lines picking up mail from agents; seeing Nuremberg bombed; going back to Furth; going in April 1945 to Dachau to get important political prisoners, including the former French Prime Minister Leon Blum; locating the prisoners in Innsbruck, Austria; his counterintelligence work for de-Nazification and working with Hugh Trevor-Roper to hunt down Wilhelm Zander; being assigned to trace enemy assets including Nazi treasures and Reichsbank gold; his work interrogating Germans, doing anti-Soviet intelligence, and being sent to Czechoslovakia as a contact for Hungarian agents; returning to the US, attending school, and working for the US Treasury; and working for a law firm.

    Oral history interview with Sia Hertsberg

    Oral History

    Sia Hertsberg (née Izrailewitsch), born June 8, 1927 in Riga, Latvia, describes her early family life and schooling; the Jewish community and the state of antisemitism in pre-war Riga; the 1940 Russian invasion; her family’s persecution at the hands of the Russian communists; the 1941 Nazi occupation and implementation of Nazi race laws; the burning of Riga’s synagogues; the help her family received from non-Jewish friends; the establishment and the later liquidation of the Riga ghetto; how a Latvian soldier attempted to rape her; avoiding the Rumbula massacre; working as a seamstress in a Reichskommissariat workshop; her family’s transport to the Kaiserwald concentration camp; how her father saved her sister several times by hiding her amidst the trash or in a pot of soup when the Nazis were looking for young children; the Nazis’ theft of her childhood; the normalcy of discussing death; her family’s transport via ship and cattle car to Stutthof; the typhus epidemic and her work carrying the dead to the crematorium; her mother’s death; her and her sister’s escape from a death march; seeking shelter and being turned away by Polish peasants; liberation by Russian soldiers on March 23, 1945; hospitalization and her sister’s death; her deep depression at losing her family; her hospitalization in Kolomna, Russia; her return to Riga and reunion with her father; falling in love with her future husband; their attempts to illegally immigrate to the United States and her father’s subsequent imprisonment by the Russians; the birth of her two sons; finishing her schooling; her husband’s death; her move to Chicago, Illinois and her post-war life in the United States; and her father’s death on the same day as her sister, thirty years later.

    Oral history interview with Chava Frajhof

    Oral History

    Chava Frajhof (née Geister), born September 20, 1923 in Belzyce, Poland, discusses her family; the German invasion of Poland in 1939; hiding from the Germans; paying the Judenrat to be assigned work in Będzin, Poland; working as a seamstress; being sent to Kraśnik, Poland in 1943; being liberated by the Soviets; fleeing to Lublin, Poland; having a family; going to Frankfurt, Germany then Berlin, Germany; and immigrating to Brazil in 1953 to join her family.

    Oral history interview with Israel Frajhof

    Oral History

    Israel Frajhof, born March 3, 1920 in Krasnik (near Lublin), Poland, describes experiencing violent antisemitism in 1933; the establishment of a ghetto in the fall of 1942; the typhus epidemic and conditions in the ghetto; working outside the ghetto; the deportation of old men, women and children deported to Majdanek and Treblinka in December 1942; trying to become a policeman but being declined permission; doing carpentry work for Germans making furniture; appels, beatings, and sleeping in the synagogue; meeting his future wife Chava Geister, who was in Krasnik camp; the Russians’ arrival in Lublin on July 22,1944; the death march to Germany and escaping into the forest for 10 days; meeting up with Chava and going to Krasnik; going to Lublin; getting married in January 1946; going to Berlin , Germany and being helped by the UNRRA; going to Frankfurt, Germany; going to Brazil in 1953; visiting Majdanek in 1986; and living for his wife and children.

    Oral history interview with Edward Novakoff

    Oral History

    Edward Novakoff, born in 1926 in Boston, Massachusetts, discusses his Ukrainian and Lithuanian immigrant parents; enlisting in the U.S. Army in December 1943; being shipped to Marseilles, France with the 90th Infantry Division; seeing his company wiped out in November 1944; fighting in southern Germany in January 1945; arriving at Flossenbürg in May 1945 and seeing the conditions and the survivors; his transfer to the 26th Regiment, 1st Infantry in August 1945; guarding prisoners for the Nuremburg Trials; having contact with Nuremburg prisoners; returning to the U.S. in December 1945; his life after the war; and helping to create the largest Jewish cemetery in the Boston area.

    Oral history interview with Celia Feldschuh

    Oral History

    Oral history interview with Nicole Yancey

    Oral History

    Nicole Yancey (née Guggenheim), born July 26, 1941 in Saint-Amand-Mont-Rond, France, describes having one sister, Nanette, born November 1938; being separated from her family when she was two years old and sent to a farm to live in a safe and secure environment; still today calling the farmer and his wife her real grandparents; members of the French Resistance coming in for meals because the farm was close to the demarcation line and there was lots of Resistance activity; her daily routine of working, hiding, and eating; how her relationships were all very harmonious; being moved back to Orléans, France when she was five years old and starting school; the severe personality changes of her parents because of their experiences during the Holocaust; the torment her father experienced because he was not able to save his brothers from being murdered; being sponsored by a French/American agency to attend William and Mary College, where she met her husband; remaining in the Tidewater, VA area; converting to Catholicism because her husband is Catholic as are her children; her position now as Consul for the French Embassy in Norfolk, VA; and her assertion that tragedies like the Holocaust will continue as long as people do not learn to accept each other and their differences.

    Oral history interview with Jaffa Munk

    Oral History

    Jaffa Munk (née Noemi Donath), born April 10, 1931 IN Ónod, Hungary, describes her father Philippe, who was a Rabbi, and her mother Olga Shick Donath; having one brother, Joseph, and one sister, Esther Judith; living a very normal life with a family that was religious yet open-minded and encouraged academics; the many changes that began in 1942 and 1943; being moved in May 1944 to the ghetto, where her father was put in charge; being sent to Auschwitz; the brutal arrival and her father’s last words to her: “Wherever you go, continue to believe in God;” being marched to Birkenau, which was the very last time she saw her mother; being selected by Mengele in September 1944 to go to Bergen-Belsen and the grim living situation there; the forced evacuation in January 1945 and a subsequent six week death march; escaping to a forest and being liberated May 8, 1945 by Russian soldiers; eventually returning to Budapest, Hungary, where she lived at an Orthodox refugee orphanage facility, which was started by Esther Eckstein with education as the primary goal; going with a Zionist group with 1800 refugees to Palestine on a boat leaving from Bucharest, Romania and the refusal of the British to allow them entry, but finally being allowed to land at Haifa, Palestine; the break-out of war in 1947 and the desperate living conditions during the war; being taken to Tel Aviv, Israel, where there was less danger and where she attended teacher’s seminary; meeting her husband, who was in the Army; the birth of her first son, Gabriel, which was the highlight of her life because it meant continuation of her family; her teaching positions, starting with 1st grade, where students came from 30 different countries; and how her personal strengths are her sense of hope and having a positive outlook.

    Oral history interview with Frances Hirshfeld

    Oral History

    Frances Hirshfeld (née Frieda Miriam Rosenbloom), born in 1918, discusses her family and childhood in Opatów, Poland; moving to Zawiercie, Poland and its local Jewish population; the beginning of the war; her religious life; antisemitism; Kristallnacht; going into hiding in Ukraine and returning to Poland; the Judenrat; adjusting to anti-Jewish laws; moving into the ghetto; living conditions in the ghetto; being deported to Auschwitz in 1943; living conditions in Auschwitz; being moved to Birkenau; contracting typhoid fever and scabies; lack of medical care; bombings near the camp; returning to Auschwitz; hearing about the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising; working in a munitions factory; being on a death march to Ravensbrück; escaping into a forest; liberation by the Soviets; immigrating to the United States in October 1946; her husband immigrating to the U.S. in 1949; visiting Poland; her feelings about Holocaust deniers; and her life after the war.

    Oral history interview with Moris Gluckman

    Oral History

    Moris Glukman, born in Suceava, Romania in 1924, discusses his childhood; the rise in antisemitism; deportation announcements; his arrival in Bessarabia (in Moldova and Ukraine) with his family and how the peasants took the belongings of the Romanian Jews; travel to Moravia, Czech Republic; living at the mercy of the Romanian Gendarmerie; the spread of typhus and diphtheria during the winter of 1941-1942; how the Ukranian police guarded the village in Moravia; the German entrance into Moravia; building bridges and excavating coal from open mines; his knowledge about events in Bessarabia and Russian positions and the approaching front; working in a Kolkhoz; being liberated by the Russians; his schooling in Bucharest, Romania; and immigration to the United States in 1983.

    Oral history interview with Margie Rosenthal

    Oral History

    Margie Rosenthal (née Margit Mary Miedzwinski), born July 19, 1927 in Gleiwitz, Germany (Gliwice, Poland), describes her prewar childhood; her family’s immigration to the Philippines after the Nazi invasion so that her father could continue in the lumber business; her pleasant life in the Philippines until the Japanese bombing in December 1941 and subsequent invasion; severe changes in their lives in Pasay City as Americans began bombing nearby Manila; the delay in her family’s move to the United States in 1948 as a result of immigration quotas; her life in San Francisco; and her marriage to her husband, Ernie.

    Oral history interview with Emma Mogilensky

    Oral History

    Emma Mogilensky (née Hubert), born May 22, 1923 in Kronheim, Bavaria, describes living in the house that had been built by her great-grandfather; having one brother and one sister; living in a friendly and peaceful community until Kristallnacht on November 9, 1938 when antisemitism became so violent that she was sent to Nuremberg, Germany; enrolling in a very strict, all Jewish high school; moving to Augsberg, Germany after her father was released from Dachau; the children’s transport, going to Munich, Germany and being transferred to a boat; finally arriving in London, England, where she and the other children were chosen for English homes such that not one of them would become a public charge; being sent to live with a couple, both physicians, who were extremely helpful; attending school again where English Literature became her best subject; being a Fire Watcher at St. Paul’s Cathedral and joining the British Army when she was 17; antisemitism in the Army; being a cook for 2,000 men; receiving her GED; subsequently attending college on the GI Bill; a trip to Israel with her children after her husband’s death; finding that the cemetery where her grandparents were buried was not desecrated and finding their graves; visiting her foster parents in England every year; and her serious commitment to speaking about the Holocaust.

    Oral history interview with Isaiah Henig

    Oral History

    Isaiah Henig (né Yeshiah Henig), born in 1915, discusses his childhood in Szydlowiec, Poland; his family and the Jewish community; his religious upbringing; the absence of antisemitism before the war; changing anti-Jewish attitudes after the German occupation; the outbreak of the war and changes in daily life; being conscripted for forced labor; the creation of the ghetto; living conditions in the ghetto; working as a laborer in Starachowice, Poland; diseases in the camp; working to build replacement parts for machines; not believing reports about Jewish deaths; being deported to Birkenau in the summer of 1944; working in a factory; being moved to other concentration camps, including Mauthausen and Hannover; Allied bombing of the area; being deported to Bergen-Belsen; living conditions in the camp; his job building cannons; liberation by the British; moving to a displaced persons camp; immigrating to the United States in 1951; his life after the war; and his feelings about what happened.

    Oral history interview with Ida Henig

    Oral History

    Ida Henig (née Markowicz), born in 1924, discusses her family and childhood in Lódź, Poland; Łódź’s Jewish community and economy; not experiencing antisemitism before the war; changing anti-Jewish attitudes when the Germans invaded; fleeing to Częstochowa, Poland; working in the ghetto; not believing stories of mass murder; the Jewish police; liberation by the Soviets in January 1945; going to Germany; coming to the United States in the 1950s; the fates of her family members; and her feelings about the Holocaust and war.

    Oral history interview with Marcel Drimer

    Oral History

    Marcel Drimer (b. Marceli Drimmer), born in 1934, discusses his childhood in Drohobych, Poland (present day Ukraine); his family; his religious upbringing; life before the war; the Russian occupation; the German invasion in 1941; the looting of Jewish property; the deportations in 1942; moving into the ghetto; the fates of his family members; Ukrainian and German police; the Judenrat; hiding in an attic for a week; escape plans being postponed due to the death of his father; how his female relatives were saved by a woman who was recognized as a righteous gentile; their living conditions while in hiding; liberation by the Soviets; adjusting to life after the war; his education; difficult living conditions in Poland; post-war anti-Semitism; immigrating to the United States in 1961; his family going to Israel; and his feelings about the war, Poland, and anti-Semitism.

    Oral history interview with Michael Silberstein

    Oral History

    Michael Silberstein (né Mieczyslaw Silberstein), born in 1930 in Grudziadz, Poland, discusses his family; life before the war; the arrival of the German Army when he was nine years old; moving to Łódź, Poland; the establishment of the Łódź ghetto; being an errand boy and getting arrested in 1942; escaping arrest; living conditions in the ghetto; being deported to Birkenau in the summer of 1944; being sent on a death march in January 1945; arriving in Mauthausen; conditions and life in Mauthausen; liberation by the Americans; reuniting with his family; meeting family in England; immigrating to the United States in1952; being drafted into the U.S. Army; and his life after the war.

    Oral history interview with Joan Schwab

    Oral History

    Joan Schwab (née Nussbaum), born on March 24, 1926, describes living in the Tiergarten area of Berlin, Germany; her memories of Kristallnacht and how two men came for her father; being placed on a Children’s Transport to England on May 21, 1939; staying with Norman and Elsie Denham and going to secondary school and Hebrew school; her brother joining her in August 1939; evacuating in September to Chichester; conditions in the home, where she shared a bed with four girls and showered every two weeks; graduating from high school in 1944 and going back to Denhams in London; sleeping in an air raid shelter when V2 rockets attacked; going after the war to the Joint Distribution Committee in Munich, Germany and finding out that her parents perished in Auschwitz and her grandfather died in Theresienstadt; and immigrating to the United States in 1947.

    Oral history interview with Erwin Deutscher

    Oral History

    Erwin Deutscher, born on January 28, 1923 in Vienna, Austria, describes being raised with thorough religious training; being in the Zionist Youth group, HaShomer HaDati; how his maternal grandfather had gone to the United States in 1898 to Oklahoma City, OK; his Bar Mitzvah in 1936; hearing about Hitler’s arrival on March 11, 1938; his father’s dairy business closing; his mother being arrested; getting notice that his youth group was going to go to Palestine and meeting Eichmann at the emigration office with his father; conditions getting worse in Vienna; traveling with 25 others by train to Trieste and by boat to Haifa and arriving October 24, 1938; going to Mikveh Israel agricultural school for two years then to Bnai Akiva yeshiva for another two years; working for Haganah and meeting his wife; fighting in the Israeli War of Independence; his father being taken to Dachau after Kristallnacht and then to Buchenwald from June 1939 to January 1940; his parents immigrating to the United States; his life after the war working for a life insurance company; and getting a Ph. D. in Hebrew letters at Hebrew Union College.

    Oral history interview with George Pick

    Oral History

    George Pick, born in Budapest, Hungary on March 28, 1934, describes his very large extended family; his father losing his job in May 1939 and being sent on labor brigade in September 1940 for three months; seeing German tanks in the streets on March 9, 1944 and the subsequent anti-Jewish laws after including wearing the yellow star and not being allowed to attend school after April; his father having to leave again; being ordered to move to special Jewish houses in the summer of 1944; the air raids in Budapest and the massive bombings on July 2, 1944; his father’s return; he and his mother joining his father in hiding in a uniform factory building in November 1944; the factory being raided December 2, 1944 and bribing their way out; being taken to a Red Cross building and running away; going to the ghetto on December 14, 1944 and his father being in the ghetto police; the siege of Budapest; Wallenberg saving Jews from a massacre in January 1945; liberation; starting school; his Bar Mitzvah in 1947; attending university; going to Austria and then the United States, where his uncle lived; working for the Navy as mechanical engineer and retiring in 1996; his three marriages and not having children; and his commitment to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.

    Oral history interview with Hedi Pope

    Oral History

    Hedi Pope (née Politzer), born March 18, 1920 in Vienna, Austria, describes her prosperous family, which was neither religious nor political; wanting to be a dancer as a child; the increase in anti-Semitism in Vienna; her memories, day-by-day, of Hitler’s invasion of Austria in March 1938; rising fears to speak out about Hitler’s actions; her memories of Kristallnacht; her father being sent to Dachau; the difficulty of getting all the documents to go to the United States; immigrating to the U.S. in January 1939; living in Newark, NJ; joining the Refugee Artist’s Group as a dancer; going to Miami University in Ohio and graduating in 1942; having two children; maintaining a dance studio in Alexandria, VA until 1980; and working with the volunteer corps at USHMM.

    Oral history interview with Bella Simon Pasternak

    Oral History

    Bella Simon Pasternak, born in 1928, discusses her liberation from Auschwitz by Russians; walking home to Hungary during the winter; being hospitalized with frostbite and starvation; living in a displaced persons camp in Innsbruck, Austria; immigrating to the United States in 1946; her first impressions of the U.S.; Americans’ disbelief at her experiences; meeting her husband, who was also a survivor; her religious views becoming more orthodox; desiring to immigrate to Israel; coping with the Holocaust many years after it occurred and still experiencing nightmares; and how important her grandchildren are to her.

    Oral history interview with Marion Friedman

    Oral History

    Marion Friedman (b. Traute Marion Julia Georgia Sulimas), born in 1922, discusses her childhood in Hamburg, Germany; being raised with her Christian mother and Jewish father; her parents’ upbringings; celebrating both Christian and Jewish holidays; her brothers’ immigrations to China and the United States; the Aryanization of her father’s bank; her mother’s resourcefulness; receiving a visa along with her mother to go to the U.S.; being sent to the U.S. on her own because her mother decided to stay with her father; learning of her parents’ arrest and deaths; adjusting to life in the U.S.; meeting her husband; returning to Germany long after the war; meeting her German family; and dealing with her losses on a daily basis.

    Oral history interview with Elizabeth Strassburger

    Oral History

    Elizabeth Strassburger, born in 1938, discusses her childhood in a small town near Zakopane, Poland; her father’s arrest and imprisonment in Siberia; being forced into the Tarnow ghetto with her mother and grandmother; watching her grandmother being taken by the Germans; hiding under an assumed Christian identity; being drugged and hidden in a basement during dangerous times; the family who hid her and her mother; believing she was a Catholic; her Catholic schooling; liberation by the Russians; learning she was Jewish after the war; being smuggled out of Poland with her mother; living at a Jewish orphanage with her mother in Germany; learning her father was alive; moving to Italy to be with her father; immigrating to England with her family; immigrating to the United States; adjusting to life as a teenager in the U.S.; her marriage; studying social work in college; her volunteer work; and her family.

    Oral history interview with Jadwiga Dziekonski

    Oral History

    Jadwiga Dziekonski, born in 1919, discusses her family’s emigration from Kiev, Ukraine to Warsaw, Poland in 1921 because of the revolution; her Catholic upbringing; attending public school; following the political situation in Germany; meeting her husband; the German invasion and occupation; her father’s exile in London, England as a member of the Bank of Poland; moving to Warsaw with her husband; her husband’s role in the Home Army; her daughter’s birth in 1943; sheltering two Jewish women in her mother’s apartment; the Polish underground’s participation in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising; the Warsaw Uprising; her husband’s arrest and imprisonment in Bergen-Belsen and Gross-Rosen; liberation; readjusting to life after the war; escaping to London through Sweden in 1947; leaving her mother behind; reuniting with her father; immigrating to Detroit in 1951; visiting Poland in 1988 to see her husband’s family; her feelings about being Polish; how she feels about Jewish people and German people; and her two visits to Israel.

    Oral history interview with Ruth Harvey

    Oral History

    Ruth Harvey, born in 1928, describes growing up with mixed Jewish and Christian heritage; her childhood in Berlin, Germany; being expelled from public school in 1938; attending a private Jewish school; witnessing the burning of Berlin’s temple during Kristallnacht; hearing Hitler’s speeches over loudspeakers; leaving Germany in 1939 with her mother to meet her father in Cuba; immigrating to New York in 1940 with her parents; growing up in New York City; moving to Washington, DC for a job with the State Department; getting married and having children; having a sense of confusion about her religious identity; why she chose not to visit any concentration camps; and volunteering at the USHMM.

    Oral history interview with Thomas B. Gardiner

    Oral History

    Thomas Brown Gardiner, born on March 26, 1920 in St. Louis County, Missouri, describes being raised by his widowed mother; life during the Depression; working for a house painter as a teen in St. Louis; getting married in 1940; working for a manufacturer that made small parts for the M1 rifle; being drafted in 1944; training at Camp Robinson in Arkansas; being sent to England in the fall of 1944; going to France; being assigned to the 45th Infantry Division; seeing action in the Vosges Mountains and Alsace-Lorraine; participating in the capture of Schaffenburg; going through Nuremberg and Munich; liberating Dachau as a member of L Company in the 157th Infantry Regiment; guarding the camp while waiting for the military police to arrive; billeting in apartment buildings outside of the camp, where the Nazi officers had lived; typhus in the camp and the high death rate of the survivors; speaking with the survivors and being shown the camp by them; going to Munich then Augsburg for a month; being sent to Le Havre, France; returning to the US; working in military camps in Texas until his release; the effect seeing Dachau had on him; and how he feels stronger in his Christian faith.

    Oral history interview with Roberta Jones

    Oral History

    Roberta Jones, born October 15, 1921 in St. Louis, Missouri, discusses growing up during the Great Depression; enlisting as a nurse in the United States Army; being commissioned as a second lieutenant with the 3rd Army and assigned to the 121st Semi-Mobile Evacuation Hospital; traveling by ship to England and helping in a hospital there; traveling to Luxembourg and then into Germany under dangerous conditions; going to Buchenwald; seeing a crematorium, stacked bodies, and starved prisoners still in uniforms; being offered bread by the prisoners; seeing a lampshade made of human skin in the office of a Nazi official; visiting a smaller liberated concentration camp and watching as American soldiers distributed clothing to naked prisoners; traveling with her hospital to a concentration camp near Linz, Austria (possibly Mauthausen); female nurses being kept outside of the camp fence as men worked inside the camp; meeting newly-liberated English prisoners of war who had been captured at the Battle of Dunkirk; returning to the United States and working at McCormack General Hospital in Pasadena, California; the difficulties of severely disfigured patients integrating into the community in Pasadena; marrying her husband; working at Camp Swift in Texas and Camp Polk in Louisiana, and, during the Korean War, in a military hospital in Michigan; encountering Holocaust deniers; and her insistence that her children know everything about her experience so that they can continue to spread the truth about the Holocaust.

    Oral history interview with Christine Cohen

    Oral History

    Christine Cohen, born April 27, 1940 in the Warsaw ghetto, describes living in the ghetto until 1942 when they escaped; using forged papers showing that they were Christian; having one brother, born in 1948; being sent alone to live with a farm family; being helped and protected by an aristocratic woman, who had befriended an old German officer while she worked for the underground resistance; living with a series of families and caretakers; living in Walbrzych, Poland; not knowing she was Jewish until she was 10 years old and not admitting to it until she moved to Israel (seven years later) in 1957; visiting Germany and Poland after the war and going to Auschwitz, all of which was very difficult; wanting to stay in Israel but because of her parents, moving to the United States; the bitterness she still feels about having her entire extended family taken from her; the recurring nightmares and physical ailments that are all tension-related; and her current life in San Antonio, TX, where there are only a few survivors of her mother’s generation.

    Oral history interview with Hugh Jenkins

    Oral History

    Hugh Jenkins, born December 29, 1914 in Lester, England, describes being the youngest of eight siblings, whose father was a Welsh minister; working before World War II with Quakers and being a conscientious objector even before the war; moving to London, England in 1944 to take part in training at a Quaker institute; being sent to Antwerp, Belgium after the training to do relief work; going to Belsen, Germany on April 22, 1944, soon after the camp had been discovered and the horrific scene; the various response processes at the camp; setting up a hospital, known as the “new camp,” maintaining a first aid station, and finding food; eventually being sent to Poland to be in charge of another camp; how even now he has a sense of desolation in how war is used to settle problems; working as the overseas secretary for the British Friends Relief Service until 1948, when he went to Philadelphia, PA to work with the American Friends Service Committee; and being sent to Washington, DC to be the director of the Foreign Student Service Center.

    Oral history interview with Rene Edgar Tressler

    Oral History

    Rene Edgar Tressler, born April 16, 1927 in Strakonice, Czech Republic, describes his childhood in Strakonice; his parents and brother; escaping to Prague, Czech Republic to live with his grandparents; his brother’s selection to be on the Board of Elders at Theresienstadt; how Theresienstadt was used as a showcase for the Red Cross; his deportation to Auschwitz; his camp number; being moved to Birkenau; his movement to Blechhammer camp; his experiences on a death march in February 1945; his arrival at Buchenwald; reuniting with his parents and brother after the liberation; escaping Czechoslovakia in 1956; immigrating to the United States; and authoring several books.

    Oral history interview with Stefan Wohl

    Oral History

    Stefan Wohl, born February 4, 1934 in Vienna, Austria, discusses the Anschluss in 1938; leaving Vienna through Switzerland to Kraków, Poland; traveling with 14 family members in September 1939 to Jaroslav, Zloczow, and Kolomyja; being captured with his father in November 1939 while trying to cross the border; being released and going to Zloczow; being on a transport for six weeks with his mother, sister, and other relatives in July 1940; arriving in the Yakutsk, Siberia labor camp settlement; leaving in May 1941 by train through Moscow to Lvov where they were reunited with their father; the German invasion on June 22, 1941; going with his sister to a farm in Jaroslav; going to Budapest, Hungary via Monkacs, Hungary (Mukacheve, Ukraine) in the fall 1942; changing their name to Wolinski and pretending to be Catholic; going to Leanyfalu in 1943 and staying for a year; the family going to Seged (Szeged), Hungary; being captured and jailed; being released and staying with an uncle in Budapest; his father’s illness; being liberated by Russians in January 1945; going back to Poland in the spring 1945; going to Sweden in the summer 1946; sailing to Brazil in October 1946; attending school and a university in the United States; and being a film producer in Brazil.

    Oral history interview with Yehuda Adam

    Oral History

    Yehuda Adam (né George Strn), born on July 3, 1929 in Budapest, Hungary, discusses being raised in a reform Jewish household; being put into forced labor in Budapest; receiving a Schutzpasse and his family working for Raoul Wallenberg; being liberated by the Soviets in January 15, 1945; going to Palestine in 1949; going to the United States in 1962; and living in both Israel and the US.

    Oral history interview with Arlette de Long

    Oral History

    Arlette de Long, born June 15, 1937 in Brocourt, Somme, France; describes her parents’ medical practice; her early love of the church and uncertainly whether her family was Jewish; villagers’ willingness to maintain friendship with the family because her father was the only physician in the village; having no memory of life before the war; the liberation of France; moving to a suburb of Paris, where she attended Protestant churches rather than synagogue; father’s unwillingness to discuss the Holocaust; her own reluctance to discuss the Holocaust until her sixteen year old daughter insisted that she talk about it; moving to the United States; her work as a psychotherapist for underprivileged children; and her feeling that her story is one of hope, compassion, and gratitude.

    Oral history interview with Eva Adam

    Oral History

    Eva Adam, born September 3, 1932 in Budapest, Hungary, describes her Orthodox Jewish family; her family’s awareness of what was happening to European Jews; their reluctance to leave Hungary; her father and brother’s membership in the Jewish Legion; serving as adjunct personnel to the Hungarian Army; changes in their lives in the late 1930s and early 1940s; her family’s unawareness of concentration camps before 1944; the Arrow Cross Party taking over the Hungarian police; deteriorating conditions for Jews; the murder of Jews at the Danube River; conditions in the ghetto; her post-liberation search for family members; finding that only three of her thirty-six family members survived Auschwitz; leaving Budapest in 1949; living in Israel and then the United States in 1961; her plans to return to Israel in the future; her pride in being a Jew and a Hungarian; the value in caring about others; and her strong work ethic as an explanation of why she was able to survive.

    Oral history interview with Herbert Bitter

    Oral History

    Herbert Jerome Bitter, born August 4, 1919 in New York City, discusses his parents who were Romanian immigrants; growing up in a Jewish neighborhood in Manhattan; becoming more religious during his service in the United Sates Army from 1943 to 1945; his experiences at Ohrdruf in 1945 soon after the Germans evacuated the camp; seeing three U.S. generals, Eisenhower, Bradley, and Patton, at the camp on April 5, 1945; the generals’ return visit on April 12, 1945 with photographers; how the freed inmates at Ohrdruf were eager to tell their stories to the American liberators; the effect of witnessing the horrors of the Holocaust had on his Jewish identity; and his reluctance to talk about his experiences during the war, especially to children.

    Oral history interview with Rachel Goldfarb

    Oral History

    Rachel Goldfarb, born December 2, 1930 in Poland (now Dokshytsy, Belarus), discusses her life following her liberation by the Russians and her time living in the forests near Bialystok, Poland with her mother; working and living on Russian trains; traveling to Prussia to find shelter provided by various Jewish organizations and the Red Cross; traveling to Italy’s southern coast; attempting to board a ship to Palestine but being blockaded by British authorities; eventually getting to New York City in November 1947 after two and a half years in Italy; visiting Washington, DC after graduation from high school; taking a job with the District Court; attending George Washington University at night; meeting her husband, also a Holocaust survivor, and marrying in 1952; raising two children, both of whom are architects; finally visiting Israel; her good life in the United States; and her advice about valuing what you have in life.

    Oral history interview with Tania Rozmaryn

    Oral History

    Tania Rozmaryn, born on June 16, 1928 in Vilnius, Poland (present day Lithuania), discusses her family as strong Zionists; the changes that took place after the German occupation; family’s escape towards the eastern Russian border; working in the house of an SS officer and being offered guidance on survival; frightening years in the Kovno ghetto; going into hiding until 1944 when the ghetto was liquidated; her deportation with her mother to Stutthof; her mother’s struggles and strategies, trying to make her look less like a child so that she would be chosen for work; being sent to various work camps until March 1945 when they were liberated by the Russians and taken to Central Poland to a displaced persons camp; being sent to Germany with false documents to a kibbutz in Munich; going to the American Zone and teaching at a school in Bergen-Belsen in 1947; getting married in 1949; immigrating to the United States in 1950; graduating summa cum laude from the Teacher’s Institute and receiving an M.A. from Queens College in 1960; moving to Maryland in 1990 where she received an M.S. in Marriage and Family Counseling; nightmares about her Holocaust experiences; and her feelings about her Jewish faith.

    Oral history interview with Frank Ephraim

    Oral History

    Franz Gunter Ephraim, born February 19, 1931 in the Schöneberg district of Berlin, Germany, describes his family and being raised Jewish but not Orthodox; living an integrated life in the community until 1937 and his participation in the 1936 Olympics events; how Kristallnacht was the impetus for his family immigrating to the Philippines; attending a Hebrew school in Manila before the attack on Pearl Harbor and the Japanese invasion of the Philippines; the politics in Manila; experiencing an open Jewish life; their favorite playing areas, holidays, their several living spaces, and the daily routine in Manila; the attack on Pearl Harbor and his memories of the alarms, airplanes, gas masks, and lack of school for about a year; how after the US declared war there were more air raids and an exodus from the Philippines began; how the US was closed to Jews who still had family in Germany and Europe and his family could not go to the US; the Japanese invasion of the Philippines; the many wartime restrictions, including food shortages, looting, changes in currency, and a new governmental organization; how 1944 was the year when things were really deteriorated and the people were starving; the daily air raids from B24 bombers; the Japanese systematically burning down the city of Manila; how February 1945 brought total chaos and there was no food for several weeks; the liberation of Manila by US forces; leaving the Philippines on November 19, 1946; arriving in San Francisco, CA where relatives were waiting for them, along with HIAF; the closeness of the Manila Jewish community in San Francisco; attending UC Berkeley until the Korean War when he was drafted into the Army and sent to Europe as an interpreter; becoming a US citizen in 1952; his philosophy that the importance of Jews as a nation is far more important than Jews as a religion and that self-reliance is the most important quality to have; graduating from UC Berkeley in 1957; and working for a naval architect specializing in submarines, United Airlines, and the Maritime Administration in Washington, DC.

    Oral history interview with Peter Phillips

    Oral History

    Ernst Pieter Philipps, born December 5, 1931 in Essen, Germany, describes his twin brothers, who were three years younger; moving to Prague, Czech Republic in 1936 because of his father’s position with his company; life in Prague, which was normal until the Germans occupied Prague beginning April 1939; moving to Genoa, Italy and spending six months there; relocating by an Italian steamer to Quito, Ecuador, where living conditions were rather primitive and where at their second address they experienced antisemitism for the first time; spending two years in Ecuador; relocating to New York City, NY, where the instances of antisemitism directed at him were violent and ugly; his parents moving back to Rotterdam by 1950 while he remained behind in the house his parents had bought in Queens; attending City College of New York for five years and in 1955 joining the US Army and being sent to Germany where, among other duties, he worked as a teacher and Boy Scout leader for American and German boys; after leaving the Army, working first for the New York Times, a newspaper in Danbury, CT, and Business Week magazine; going to Washington, DC to work for McGraw Hill for 20 years; his experiences as a volunteer at the USHMM; and how he believes his experiences as a Jew have affected his outlook.

    Oral history interview with Joseph Ichiuji

    Oral History

    Joseph Ichiuji describes his parents as having immigrated to the US in the early 1900s; his father being a truck farmer and then owning a shoe repair business; working in a fish cannery and living in Fresno, CA until Executive Order 9066, which required that all Japanese Americans be evacuated to internment camps; being sent by train and truck to Flagstaff, Arizona, where they were assigned to barracks number three of the internment camp at Poston, AZ; conditions at the camp, which was run like an army installation with strict regimentation; volunteering for the 442 Combat Team, formed in 1943 and consisting solely of Japanese American soldiers who had families living in internment camps; fighting in Italy at the front lines north of Rome; liberating Livorno, Italy; helping liberate a subcamp of Dachau; conditions of prisoners still alive at the camp; helping two Lithuanian prisoners reconnect with important people in their lives; going home in December 1945 to find his parents released from the internment camp; helping his father with his business until May 1946 when he went to Washington, DC, where he worked in government service for 37 years; and the reunion of Japanese American soldiers in Los Angeles, CA, which a few of the survivors of Dachau attended.

    Oral history interview with Ruth Horowitz

    Oral History

    Ruth Horowitz (née Salzburg), born March 23, 1930 in Hamburg, Germany, describes her Polish parents Isaac Salzberg and Rose R. Kleinert and her sister; life in Hamburg, where they lived until November 1938; leaving Hamburg two days before Kristallnacht; how Hamburg was very open to Jews until Hitler’s regime, though she experienced many instances of antisemitism; being fascinated with the 1936 Olympics; how her father’s efforts to leave Germany began in 1936 and finally succeeded when he dramatically threatened to commit suicide at the US Consul if the visas were not granted; how crossing the Atlantic was very difficult, with cold and seasickness, but they arrived and went to Detroit, MI for a short while, then to New York City, NY, and finally to Washington, DC; learning to speak English by going to lots of movies; her father’s death at age 54; her mother’s transformation from being a housewife to running her husband’s jewelry business after he died; the wartime antisemitism, the problem of quotas, the Nuremburg trials, and the State of Israel; getting married in 1950; traveling to Germany in 1995; and her views on present day Germany.

    Oral history interview with Hermann Kosak

    Oral History

    Hermann Kosak, born May 2, 1924 in Vienna, Austria, describes his younger sister, Margaret; how antisemitism was pervasive and being involved in instances of physical violence as early as kindergarten; the growth of the Nazi movement in Austria; the Anschluss in March 1938; seeing Hitler arriving in Vienna in his car; how quickly the Jews were affected by the Nazi’s changes; Kristallnacht and being arrested the next morning; trying to get out of Vienna at age 14 and finally getting to Brussels, Belgium with his mother; the Germans attack on Belgium; how enrolling in art school after the invasion was the most important thing he did; learning survival, watchfulness, and self-reliance at age 16; beginning a diary on May 9, 1940, describing daily life, and keeping the diary until three weeks before liberation; how out of 50 family members, 43 were killed in camps; finally getting visas for him and his sister in November 1947 by forcing his way into the US Embassy and leaving for the United States; arriving in New York City, NY; being a painting instructor; being drafted, released to Reserves, working for a while, and being called back for the Korean War; being married and eventually getting a job with Boeing as an illustrator; and his views on the effects of the Holocaust on humanity.

    Oral history interview with Dolly Bestandig

    Oral History

    Dolly Bestandig (née Hirsch), born July 24, 1939 in Vilna (Vilnius), Lithuania, discusses her family, which had been in Lithuania for 11 generations; her father, who was a mathematical engineer, and her mother, who was a concert pianist; how her parents were both very religious and wealthy; being sent to the Vilna ghetto, the hardship of which marked the beginning of her mother’s psychological changes; the presence of 90 members of her mother’s family in the ghetto; how at age five, after living in the Minsk ghetto, she and her mother were sent to Auschwitz, where her mother managed to save her life by hiding her in a garbage can during the day while her mother worked; being moved to Bergen-Belsen with her mother and father after four months, where she was again hidden in a garbage can every day until liberation on April 15, 1945 by English soldiers; being sent to Sweden for medical care; being hospitalized in Gothenburg and then in Stockholm, where surgery on her palate was performed; leaving Sweden in 1947 and going to New York, where an uncle met her family; going to Mexico City, where two uncles were waiting; how her mother’s psychological state was deteriorating and she died in 1958; having flashbacks to her life in the camps; going to the Margaret Sanger Institute in New York City in 1967, where she received counseling help and tuberculosis was found throughout her body; recovering and adopting two children; being the Sub-Director of Hebrew instruction at the Yeshiva in Mexico City; and her feelings about her survival.

    Oral history interview with Goldie Gendelman

    Oral History

    Goldie Gendelman, born November 17, 1933 in Lechowichi (possibly Lyakhavichy, Belarus), Poland near Baranowichi (possibly Baranovichi, Belarus), discusses her parents, Chaim and Chana Wolochiwianski; growing up in an extremely Orthodox family; being raised to speak Polish and Yiddish; her family’s attempt to immigrate to the United States; how she and her family made it to Cuba and stayed there for 11 years; living in Regla, Cuba; her struggles to communicate in Spanish; being run over by a bus in Cuba; how she and her family finally were able to immigrate to the United States in 1948; her paternal uncle in the United States who assisted with the immigration process; her experience with antisemitism in Poland and Cuba; graduating from high school in the United States; volunteering at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum; and her feelings about leaving Poland, living in Cuba, and starting a new life in the United States.

    Oral history interview with Rhoda Kuflik

    Oral History

    Rhoda Kuflik (née Ruzenka Husen), born in October 1937 in Kitev, Poland (now Kuty, Ukraine), describes living in the Kuty ghetto; escaping to Romania and hiding there; being liberated by the Soviets; and immigrating to the United States in 1948.

    Oral history interview with William Hess

    Oral History

    William Hess was born William Verna on August 8, 1921 in Stuttgart, Germany. He was an only child and lived a pleasant life there. Despite the Nuremberg laws, he was permitted to continue his schooling as his father served during World War I. Nevertheless, they lost the service of their maid. William experienced little anti-Semitism in Germany but knew that Hitler made anti-Semitic speeches and had newspaper articles written against the Jews. His father's business suffered little from the boycotting but he sold it in 1938. Anti-Semitism was more severe in the outlying towns than in Stuttgart. William studied English for two years before immigrating to Danville, Illinois with his uncle's assistance in 1937. He had difficulty adjusting to the US so had an English tutor. Additionally, he had difficulty living on his wages of $12.50 as $9 went toward room and board and he also had to cover tutoring and transportation expenses. Kristallnacht and his father's internment in Dachau influenced his parents to leave Germany in 1939 for Danville.

    Oral history interview with Jutta Levy

    Oral History

    Jutta Levy, born in 1926 in Hamburg, Germany, describes growing up in a pleasant upper middle class family in a large Jewish community; listening to Hitler’s speeches on the radio and seeing him on a school field trip; witnessing Nazi book burning; learning of the death of Hindenburg; drastic changes in Germany after 1933; living in fear as children were taken from school and acquaintances disappeared; father’s dramatic pleading for visas to leave Germany; obtaining passage on the last train from Hamburg on November 6, 1938; traveling to Paris, France and then to Cherbourg, France, from which her family sailed to New York on the Queen Mary; arriving on November 11, 1938; learning about life in concentration camps from family members who survived the Holocaust; and her return to Hamburg and visit to Bergen-Belsen as an adult.

    Oral history interview with Wolfgang Mueller

    Oral History

    Wolfgang Mueller, born in Hanover, Germany on March 10, 1919, discusses his father’s role as a leader in the Jewish community and being head of B’nai B’rith; being aware of the Nazis at an early stage and seeing posters on kiosks denouncing Jews; refusing to say “Heil Hitler” in school and being advised by the principal to leave the country; going to London, England the summer after his Bar Mitzvah (1932); attending Ewell School and going back to Germany on vacations, pretending he was English; attending Cranbrook School with funding from a relative, Max Nordhaus, in the United States; receiving an affidavit from Nordhaus and getting a visa to the US; arriving in the US July 26, 1936 and moving to New Mexico; his mother and sister emigrating; hearing about Kristallnacht; being drafted in September 1941 and being sent to Florida; being in the Signal Corps; applying to officer’s candidate school and being in a group that called themselves the fighting 614s; being made into an MP after his superiors found out he was from Germany; being stationed in Tampa, FL and Jacksonville, FL; getting his American citizenship; volunteering to go overseas; being stationed in England as a technical supply sergeant and a liaison with the RAF; working after V-E Day in the Air Technical Intelligence Office; interrogating prisoners in Czechoslovakia and Austria and engineers at Zeiss works; being in Nordhausen for an hour; translating V-2 documents; being discharged on January 11, 1947; getting married; working in the meat business, real estate, and as a wholesale fish company; being proud to be Jewish; and his dedication to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.

    Oral history interview with Klari Rudnai

    Oral History

    Klari Rudnai (née Takacs), born May 19, 1930 in Budapest, Hungary, describes her well-to-do family that was not at all religious; her older sister; her father, who was her hero, and her strict mother; how their cook was instrumental in saving their lives by getting counterfeit papers with non-Jewish names for them and by bringing them food as they hid in a one-room apartment in 1944; moving to a nice hotel and having to go to the hotel’s underground bunkers during all the bombing for almost nine months; her father’s seven siblings, who were all sent to Auschwitz; going back to the hotel, the Vadasqur, until it too was bombed; moving to a new villa in 1946; how when she was 19 years she was picked up by Russian soldiers in a jeep and had to fight her way out of an attack by them and was saved by American soldiers who took her to the hospital for a few days; marrying an American soldier and wanting to go to the United States; finishing high school; how the solitary military life and moving a lot to odd places didn’t suit her; divorcing her husband and moving back to Washington, DC; getting married in 1960 to a Jewish doctor, who had been in many concentration camps and was instrumental in getting her interested in her Jewish religion; volunteering at the USHMM in the Archives and Volunteer Services; enjoying all parts of talking to people and the volunteers in her job; and reading a lot of books and newspapers about the Holocaust.

    Oral history interview with Jill Pauly

    Oral History

    Jill Pauly, born May 1, 1933 in Cologne, Germany, describes her large, very well-to-do country family; the efforts of her grandmother and uncle to get money to Holland and make arrangements for the family to get to Kenya, where they bought two cattle farms that eventually were very successful; wanting a more orthodox Jewish life after the war; moving to New York City then moving to Vineland, NJ; her family buying a chicken farm, which was destroyed by a hurricane in 1952; the death of her father when he was 66 years old; her mother being her guiding light in terms of religious practice; attending the Pierce School of Business in Philadelphia, PA; working for the Quakers and then for a synagogue; getting her real estate license at the University of Maryland; her two adopted children; retiring in December 1993 from real estate; volunteering at the USHMM in Visitors’ Services and in the Office of Survivor Relations; having very strong feelings about people having access to the Museum; and some of the artifacts that she’s donated to the Museum.

    Oral history interview with Jack Reuben

    Oral History

    Jack Ruben was born Yaakov Ruben on December 8, 1921 in Cincinnati, Ohio and after six months the family moved to LA. He was the only child to Joseph and Sarah Basha Ruben who came from Russia and were not religious. His mother was a garment worker and his father sold fruits and vegetables in a horse and cart in the local area. Due to an eye condition, Jack went to a health camp for a year. Jack's father left the family in 1927 and since lost track of him. Jack was placed in foster homes until the 11th grade and would visit his mother on the weekends. He graduated from high school and worked his way through UCLA by working part-time. In summer of '43 Jack volunteered for the Air Corps and was sent to Pomona College for nine months to study meteorology. He was not picked to be a meteorology officer so joined the infantry and was selected to be a coding clerk. He went to several camps and was shipped to Le Havre. His division had little information of the overall war and no details of concentration camps. From there he was part of the effort to form a bridge over the Moselle and next in a major assault at the Rhine River. Jack was in the Division furthest east in Germany which took many German prisoners as they quickly drove east. His company going east and meeting a surrendering German battalion who were permitted to march on their own. His company formed perimeters around villages and often stayed overnight in a civilian's home. They went through a rural area and saw dead prisoners and dead horses along the road without understanding the situation. They reached Ohrdruf Concentration Camp and saw a few emaciated prisoners leaving and many dead bodies piled up or laying on the ground. Jack did not realize it was a concentration camp at the time or that others existed until later when he returned to the US. The Army newspaper did not publish such information. From there, they went to the Czech border for 3 months which they guarded until VE Day. Then Jack was relocated to a relocation camp near Paris until Christmas '45 when he was shipped home and arrived in NY on New Year's Day '46. He was discharged and married a second time as his first wife was killed in an auto accident. Subsequently, he received a BA in economics, MA in family counseling and PhD in psychology and has practiced 10 years in the field. He has four children. Jack still does not understand how the crimes in the concentration camps could have been performed by fellow human beings.

    Oral history interview with David Bayer

    Oral History

    Oral history interview with Tilda Finzi Cohen

    Oral History

    Tilda Finzi Cohen (née Mazel Tov “Tilda” Finzi) born in Split, Yugoslavia on July 11, 1933, discusses Germans passing through their city in early 1941; her father getting called into the army and returning after one month; the Italians occupying Split, closing businesses and setting a curfew; not being permitted to go to school and the formation of community Jewish schools in different locations around city; her uncle being imprisoned and bringing him food; the Italian capitulation in September 1943; her family joining other people fleeing to partisans in the mountains; going with her mother to Brac Island, to Vis Island; sailing to Bari two days before Yom Kippur; living in a camp then a private house; the Germans dropping gas bombs on ships on December 2, 1943; her family moving to a village near Bari and attending school; attending a Seder arranged by the Jewish Brigade in Bitonto, Italy in the spring of 1944; how after the war their relatives told them of the camps and atrocities and advised them not to return to Split; her family moving to Milan, Italy in 1948; her family immigrating to the United States in 1950; finishing high school and attending college; getting married; and feeling that she is not a part of any country and that she lost her childhood.

    Oral history interview with Zwi Golombek

    Oral History

    Zwi Golombek, born in Warsaw, Poland on September 15, 1934, describes his father’s large construction business; the formation of the Warsaw ghetto and his family moving into one room on Nowolipki Street; his father’s ability to exit and enter the ghetto because he possessed building permits; being aware of danger and seeing beatings; his father striking a German guard in early 1942 and being taken to a ghetto prison then Treblinka; his Uncle Mietek placing him with the Abramzuc family in Jozefow, Poland and his mother and sister disappearing from the ghetto two weeks later; staying hidden for three years and his uncle visiting often and playing the family to hide him; being called Henyek; his uncle placing him in a kibbutzim in Poland and Germany after the war; going to Israel on October 6, 1948; working in Tel Aviv and joining the Israeli army in 1952; fighting war in 1956, 1967, 1973, and 1982; getting married; and his two sons.

    Oral history interview with Samuel B. Hagner

    Oral History

    Samuel Hagner, born November 1, 1925 in Philadelphia, PA, discusses his Quaker parents; becoming a Quaker member at age 14; going to a Quaker work camp; being told about antisemitic events in Europe by a Jewish friend named Doris Weil and not believing her; his brother being a conscientious objector and working in a forestry camp during war; attending Oberlin College; being inducted into the army in January 1944 as a 1-A-O; training as a medical corpsman; sailing to Europe in December 1944; joining 7th Army in Germany and moving as the front moved; being made an armed guard at a billet even though he refused to carry a gun; going by truck to help liberate Dachau; the overwhelming experiences of seeing Dachau and feeling anger towards the SS guards; staying in the camp for one week; wavering about being a conscientious objector and writing to Doris to tell her she was right; going to a German hospital with nuns; going to France and the war ending before he was deployed to the Philippines; becoming a scrub nurse during plastic surgery on war victims in Indiana; being discharged and returning to college in the fall of 1946; practicing psychiatry for adults; living with his Dachau experience but not being at peace with it; and his continued abhorrence of war.

    Oral history interview with Werner E. Michel

    Oral History

    Oral history interview with Guta Jacobson

    Oral History

    Guta Jacobson (née Rogowitz), born on April 23, 1925 in Łódź, Poland, discusses her early life in Łódź; relations between Jews and Christians; her activity in a Zionist organization; various holiday celebrations; the German invasion of Poland and the implementation of Nazi race laws; food shortages; the establishment of the Łódź ghetto; her family’s indecision on whether or not to flee; life in the ghetto; losing her faith in God after seeing her parents give up their children; her father’s disappearance; the typhus epidemic; hearing rumors of Chelmno and Auschwitz; hiding from the liquidation of the ghetto and their eventual deportation to Auschwitz in August of 1944; her immediate understanding of what was happening in the camp; Dr. Josef Mengele taking her mother away; being transported to a camp in Birnbäumel, Germany (now Gruszeczka, Poland), to work digging anti-tank trenches; the differing conditions of various camps; hiding in the woods during a death march; her return to a liberated Łódź; marrying her husband; her reunion with her sister who had been recuperating in Sweden after the liberation of Bergen-Belsen; immigrating to the United States; the birth of her children; the death of her husband; her avoidance of discussing her experiences with her children when they were young; her motivations for sharing her story now; and her hopes that the world will never forget.

    Oral history interview with Helen Luksenburg

    Oral History

    Oral history interview with William Luksenburg

    Oral History

    William Luksenburg describes going on a death march from Regensburg, Germany to Lebenau, Germany; a German farmer picking him up from the road, where he fell; being brought by the farmer to American troops stationed in the nearby town of Laufen, where he was treated for malnutrition; his cousin coming to the same camp a few months later; returning with his cousin to Bayreuth, Germany, where there were other family members; reuniting in Prague with his future wife, Helen, whom he met in the Blechhammer work camp; getting married in 1947; receiving money and support from the United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Agency; attending a technical school organized by the Organization for Rehabilitation through Training; immigrating to the United States in September 1949 with Helen; and becoming a mechanic and starting his own business. [Note: This interview focuses on the interviewee’s post-Holocaust experiences. There is an earlier interview focusing on the interviewee’s Holocaust experience. This interview can be accessed by requesting RG-50.030*140.]

    Oral history interview with Rose Weisfeld

    Oral History

    Rose Weisfeld (née Friedman), born on March 28, 1914 in Radom, Poland, discusses her early life and schooling; social integration between Jews and Christians at home and at school; keeping Jewish customs and traditions at home; her religious education; her brothers’ conscription in the Polish army; being badly injured and hospitalized for a year; her family’s forced relocation to the Radom ghetto; her father’s death; the liquidation of the ghetto; doing factory work; being transported to Auschwitz via cattle car; the process of selections; being transported to Ravensbrück in 1944; being liberated by Swedish soldiers and their compassion; weighing 32 pounds at liberation; her hospitalization in Denmark and Sweden; finding work in a factory and regaining her humanity; her marriage in Sweden to another survivor; the birth of her children; finding her brother through the Red Cross after four years; immigrating to the United States to be with her brother; the difficulties of adjusting to life in the US; and the importance of raising her children with Jewish traditions.

    Oral history interview with Ruth E. Greifer

    Oral History

    Ruth Greifer (née Dahl), born May 30, 1922 in Geilenkirchen (near Aachen), Germany, discusses her father, who was a cattle dealer, and her Dutch mother; attending a private Catholic school and experiencing antisemitism but being treated well by the nuns; how the plaque on father’s business was shattered in 1938; moving to Valkenburg, Holland in the spring of 1938; Germans occupying the city on May 10, 1940 and her family hiding in catacombs during the bombing; having to wear the yellow star and obey curfew; her father’s business being taken away; the Germans ordering them to leave in June 1942, but she was allowed to stay because she was sick; her brother and two aunts being taken to Auschwitz; how a Mr. Jansen from the underground arranged for she and her parents to go into hiding; going to a coal miner’s house, while her parents went to another; being thought of as a risk and being relocated to a doctor’s house to be a maid; going into hiding at the Robertson’s house near Treebeek and Hoensbroek with another Jewish woman; getting money from the underground organization; hearing about the June 1944 invasion; going to a house in Treebeek; the heavy bombing in the city and hiding in a potato bin for three days; being liberated September 17, 1944; returning to her parents in Valkenburg; the loss of all of her mother’s Dutch family; sailing to the United states in the spring of 1948; settling with her sister in Pittsburgh, PA; getting married April 8, 1951 and having three daughters; moving to Washington, DC in 1957; and her feelings about Germany.

    Oral history interview with Nesse Godin

    Oral History

    Nesse Godin (née Galperin), born on March 28, 1928 in Siaulai, Lithuania, discusses her life after the war; being liberated by the Russians in Chynowie (known as Chinow in German) near Wejherowo, Poland on March 10, 1945; suffering from typhoid and dysentery and weighing 65 pounds; joining her mother and brother in Feldafing DP camp; going to ORT and UNRRA sponsored classes; getting married to Jack Godin, who had escaped from the Vilna Ghetto and whose family was killed in Ponary; having her first child in Munich, Germany; immigrating to United States in 1950 and settling in Washington, DC; becoming a citizen in 1955 and working as a dressmaker for 26 years; raising her children; sharing her Holocaust experience; working with the UJA, Jewish Community Council and the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith, and the US Holocaust Memorial Council; working on projects at USHMM, including the “Remember the Children” exhibit, the ID project, and within the education and development departments; and her thoughts on the Holocaust.

    Oral history interview with Maryla Korn

    Oral History

    Maryla Korn (née Orgel), born on June 10, 1938 in Kraków, Poland, discusses going with her mother first to Wieliczka and then to Bochnia between late 1940 and early 1941; hiding with a peasant family but crying so much that she was returned to her mother; going to a ghetto in Bochnia at the end of 1941; her mother working outside the ghetto in a factory; taking messages outside the ghetto and bringing back food; leaving the ghetto in June 1943 and separating from her mother; carrying diamonds and money, but no luggage and bribing Germans and the Judenrat; traveling by truck to the border then by foot at night; being guided by paid partisans; her grandfather being shot at Bochnia cemetery, her grandmother being taken to Auschwitz, and her uncle being taken to Belzec in the summer of 1942; being by Czech collaborators in Kosice, Slovakia; being released and proceeding to Hungary with help from the Joint; being caught and sent to a prison in Budapest and the Joint getting her out; going to Usod, Hungary in the fall of 1943 and staying there until April 1944 under name of Orglowska; living as a Christian; being treated for gangrene in her leg; the roundup of Hungarian Jews in April 1944; her mother stealing passes and going to Budapest; staying with a Jewish Polish friend and then going to Bucharest, Romania with help from the Joint; almost boarding two different ships in Constanta, Romania going to Palestine, one of which (the Merkur) sank and the other ended up in Cyprus; being liberated by the Russians in the spring of 1945; going to Budapest and staying in a children’s home while her mother went back to Poland to check on family; her mother setting up a business in Vienna, Austria with an uncle; her father returning traumatized from the war; going to Brussels, Belgium in the winter of 1946-1947; going to Israel in 1951; living in both Israel and Brussels until immigrating to the United states in May 1961; getting married in June 1961 to David Korn, who is also a survivor; visiting her parents in Germany; and her work translating for USHMM.

    Oral history interview with Michel Margosis

    Oral History

    Michel Margosis, born in Brussels, Belgium on September 2, 1928, discusses immigrating to the United States in 1943; being taken in by father’s cousin in Brooklyn, then to foster home; his parents coming to the US in 1946; graduating from high school in 1947; graduating with honors from Brooklyn College in 1951; enlisting in the army and being sent to Germany as an interpreter but requesting to be transferred; becoming a medic near Verdun; feeling very American, but did not speak about his childhood with other soldiers; his feeling about Germany; working at USHMM with the Speakers Bureau and translating materials; speaking about his past; and being featured in the book “The Triumphant Spirit” by Nicholas del Calzo.

    Oral history interview with Lena Jurand

    Oral History

    Lena Jurand (Salzberg), born in Przemysl, Poland on September 13, 1917, discusses being an only child, educated in a Catholic school then at a music conservatory; meeting her husband Julian Jurand in 1931 and getting married in May 1940; living in the Russian part of town; her father being chosen for the Judenrat when the Germans took over; Jews having to give up jewelry and wear a star; the ghetto being formed in July 1942; moving with parents and in-laws from Lvov; working in a factory disinfecting uniforms; her father being taken away and how she went to the Gestapo headquarters and saved him from deportation to Auschwitz; meeting a Polish woman in the factory who offered to hide her and Julian; hiding for 22 months in room off of kitchen in a woman’s apartment; being liberated by Russians in August 1944; living in an apartment with her husband and cousins; living in Munich, Germany with UNRRA staff of the Neu Freimann DP Camp; teaching music to child survivors in camp for one year; moving to Genoa, Italy, where Julian practiced medicine; visiting her uncle for six months in New York, NY; going to the United States in 1951; living in New Jersey, where Julian worked in state hospital as a psychiatrist; and Julian becoming the clinical director at St. Elizabeth’s in Washington, D.C.

    Oral history interview with Wallace Witkowski

    Oral History

    Wallace A. Witkowski, born January 12, 1928 in Kielce, Poland, discusses his escape from Poland on a ship to Goteborg, Sweden in 1948; going to the United States; how his sister was caught by the communists and imprisoned; his struggle to find his father who had immigrated to the United States earlier; settling in Detroit, Michigan and adjusting to American life; how his mother and sister arrived in the U.S. later; attending high school and then Wayne State University; getting married in 1951; working as a radio disc jockey using the on-air name Jan Alexander; earning a law degree; working in Washington, DC and traveling between the United States and Poland; working for the Federal Trade Commission; living and working in Micronesia; his thoughts on religion and how the Holocaust affected him; his identity as a Catholic; his work as a translator; and his work with the Foreign Claims Settlement Commission.

    Oral history interview with Peter Masters

    Oral History

    Oral history interview with Lena Gitter

    Oral History

    Lena Gitter (née Lieba Rosenblatt), born in 1905 in Vienna, Austria, discusses her life after the Holocaust; immigrating to the US in July 1938 with her husband and small daughter; her husband who worked as a physician; feeling guilty for many years about having escaped Vienna before the Holocaust; her long involvement with the Montessori schools both in Vienna and the United States; the Montessori method; working with people in Mississippi under Johnson’s War on Poverty program; the death of her husband in 1974; her plan to donate her collection of early childhood education materials to a library in Vienna; working under several Presidents of the United States.

    Oral history interview with Jacob Wiener

    Oral History

    Jacob Wiener (né Koppel G. Zwienicki), born March 25, 1917 in Bremen, Germany, discusses his experiences in the United States after World War II; the reaction to the war by the American media; his wife’s experience on the Kindertransport; his memories of watching Nazi war crime trials on television; his thoughts on Israel and Palestine; the Eichmann trial; how he was involved with the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum from its founding; Holocaust education in American schools; antisemitism in the United States; and how he founded a school for mentally disabled children in the 1950s.

    Oral history interview with Noah Roitman

    Oral History

    Noah Roitman, born in Baranowicze, Poland (Baranavichy, Belarus) on January 10, 1923, discusses his religious upbringing and schooling; being very athletic; receiving warnings from his Christian friends in November 1938; his town being under Soviet rule in 1939; people being deported and his house being burned down; the German invasion on June 27, 1941; the formation of a ghetto on December 12, 1941; wearing the yellow star and working in arms factory; joining the resistance group of Mome Kopelovitz; the first action in the ghetto in March 1942; joining the partisans led by Pougatchov in the forest in August 1942; his activities sabotaging trains and bringing others out of ghetto (saving approximately 80 people); being sent to Pinsk, Belarus in late 1943; joining a group led by Major Igor, attacking trains; being ordered into Russian Army in Slutsk, Belarus in December 1943; fighting Germans and seeing Warsaw destroyed; being wounded by a sniper outside of Berlin, Germany; running a canteen for the Russian Army at the end of the war; returning to Poland; helping Jews get to Czechoslovakia; being captured and jailed, but escaping to Łódź, Poland; meeting his wife; traveling through Germany and France to get to Israel; being detained in Cyprus for 3 to 4 months; having a construction business in Israel; and immigrating to the United States in October 1963.

    Oral history interview with Richard W. Peterson

    Oral History

    Richard W. Peterson, born September 29, 1925 in Iowa, discusses his family’s Danish background; growing up in a Baptist family; first learning about the war in Europe and his family’s concern for Denmark; antisemitism in Iowa; hearing about the attack on Pearl Harbor; his involvement with ROTC and Boy Scouts; attending Drake University; joining the Army Specialized Training Reserve Program (ASTRP); reporting to Fort Crook for the reserve program and then to Camp Dodge in Iowa; being sworn into the U.S. Army; training at Camp Livingston in Louisiana with the 86th Blackhawk division; being assigned to A Company, 342nd Infantry; being sent to Le Havre, France; traveling through France, the Netherlands, and Germany; fighting in a battle in Attendorn, Germany; entering what appeared to be a factory in Attendorn and seeing starving people there; the reaction of his comrades to seeing the prisoners; the liberation of Auschwitz; being sent to the Philippines from September 1945 to March 1946; finishing his degree at the University of Iowa; graduating from law school in 1951; getting married; his father’s appointment to the Iowa Supreme Court; how he was a United States Magistrate Judge; his three children; and how he feels about American current events, politics, and world news.

    Oral history interview with Riane Gruss

    Oral History

    Riane Gruss (née Wohl), born on August 18, 1932 in Vienna, Austria, describes her father, who was a banker in Kraków, Poland and an industrialist in Vienna, and how her parents lived half a year in each place; she and her siblings being raised by a governess in Vienna; being in Kraków on September 1, 1939; going to Jaroslav, where there was bombing, then to Zloczow and to Kolomyja; her father and brother being captured at the border and her brother’s release; returning to Zloczow; being sent to Siberia by the Russians in July 1940; her younger brother getting scarlet fever; arriving in August 1940 near Yakutsk and Aldan and going to a labor camp; conditions in the camp; the hard physical labor for adults; how in April 1941 the NKVD said mothers and children could leave; their New York relatives getting them Bolivian passports; leaving in May and meeting her father in Lvov (L'viv, Ukraine); going to a farm in country for four months after the German invasion on June 22, 1941; her family following her uncle Joseph Stieglitz to Munkacs, Hungary (Mukacheve, Ukraine); getting Polish Christian papers; going to Budapest, Hungary; going to Szeged, Hungary, where her father had to be hospitalized; the children being hidden in the fall of 1944 in a caretaker’s house in Buda, Hungary; escaping when the Russians arrived and reuniting with her parents; going with her family to Mako, Hungary for four weeks then to Vienna; her parents returning to Kraków; going with a smuggler to Brno, Czechoslovakia (Czech Republic) and then joining her parents in Kraków; going with her family to Stockholm, Sweden; going to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil in October 1946; going to New York, in February 1951; and getting married in December 195 and having two children.

    Oral history interview with Regina Spiegel

    Oral History

    Regina Spiegel, (née Gutman) born May 12, 1926 in Radom, Poland, discusses her post-war experiences starting with her liberation; traveling with 3,000 other female prisoners by train from Elsnig, Germany to Dachau, Germany; how the train stopped on the way to Dachau because the railway line had been bombed; how the train itself was bombed by the Allies while stopped on the tracks; being able to escape during the bombing; traveling with 15 other women by horse and buggy to Poland; sleeping in German homes while traveling to Poland; avoiding large groups of Russian soldiers; promising her mother and her boyfriend that if they were separated during the war, they would meet in Radom, Poland; how she and her friends boarded a train in Poznań, Poland without any money; meeting a man on the train with whom she had been imprisoned in Pionki, Poland; returning to Radom where she was told that returning Jews were being killed; returning to the Radom Ghetto, where many displaced persons were gathering; writing her name on a list of displaced persons in the Radom Ghetto; traveling from Radom to Kozienice to reunite with her boyfriend, Sam; leaving Poland with Sam and traveling by train to Prague, Czechoslovakia (Czech Republic); traveling with the Joint Distribution Committee from Prague to Pilsen, Czech Republic and then to Germany; staying with Sam in the displaced persons camp Föhrenwald; her marriage to Sam in 1946; moving to Stuttgart, Germany, where she learned to be a seamstress through ORT classes; her involvement with the Jewish Theological Seminary of America in New York; her religious beliefs and how they changed throughout the war; moving to Washington, DC; how she and Sam learned to speak English; working as a seamstress before giving birth to a daughter in August 1951; her thoughts on the Yugoslavian conflict; her work with the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum during its early development; her activity with the Jewish Holocaust Survivors and Friends of Greater Washington; returning with Sam to Auschwitz in 1975; speaking publically about the Holocaust; receiving an award from the United Jewish Appeal; and how she and Sam take groups of 16 to 18 year olds to Poland and Israel through the B'nai B'rith Youth Organization.

    Oral history interview with Charles Stein

    Oral History

    Charles Stein (né Karl Robert Stein), born in Vienna, Austria, on November 28, 1919, describes his childhood; attending medical school at the University of Vienna; immigrating to the United States and arriving on December 18, 1939; his draft into the army on October 7, 1941; discovering that his parents had gone into the Łódź ghetto; training at Camp Ritchie in Maryland; going to Normandy, France with the 9th Infantry Division as the commander of a prisoner-of-war interrogation team; helping to liberate Nordhausen and interrogating its Ukrainian guards; becoming an Army captain and then the chief of the translation section in the Office of Military History at the Pentagon; serving in Korea and Tokyo for five years; marrying an Air Force lieutenant in Tokyo; returning to the US and settling in Washington, DC; working for the Air Force Intelligence and for the State Department until his retirement in 1978; serving as a foreign service officer and being responsible for the resettlement of refugees in Europe; and writing about his experiences during the war.

    Oral history interview with Hannah Kalman

    Oral History

    Hannah Kalman (née Hannah Finer Kalmanowicz), born in 1912 in Opoczno, Poland and describes her family; moving to Łódź, Poland when she was 12 and joining a Zionist organization; meeting her husband in the Zionist organization and getting married in 1937; moving into the Łódź ghetto in 1939; living with her son, sister, and nephew in a small room with bad conditions; being deported with her family on one of the last transports out of the Łódź ghetto; never seeing her son and nephew again after their arrival at Auschwitz; her transport to Waldeslust, Germany, where she did hard labor; going on a death march to Bergen-Belsen; conditions in the camp; being liberated with her sister on April 15, 1945; the death of her sister two months after liberation; traveling around Poland looking for relatives; reuniting with her husband later in Poland; moving to Germany and having a son; immigrating to the United States; settling in Scranton, Pennsylvania; having a daughter; and living in Israel for a short time but ultimately settling in the United States for medical treatment.

    Oral history interview with Morris Rosen

    Oral History

    Morris Rosen, born on November 10, 1922 in Częstochowa, Poland, describes his family; being forced to paint rooms for German troops during the war; his deportation to Theresienstadt; being forced on a death march to Buchenwald; receiving help from the Red Cross after the war; traveling around Poland and Germany trying to find his sister; his time spent in displaced persons camps; his memories of the Nuremberg Trials; immigrating to the United States and settling in New York; the mental stress with which he dealt after the war; attending the international law program at Columbia; moving to Baltimore, Maryland in November, 1949; getting married in 1953; collecting items from the World War Two era; and his reflections on the state of antisemitism in today’s world.

    Oral history interview with Sam Spiegel

    Oral History

    Sam Spiegel, born in Kozienice, Poland on August 23, 1922, describes his family and childhood; being forced into a ghetto; his father’s involvement in the underground movement; working for the Judenrat and getting papers to leave the ghetto and get extra food; his deportation to Auschwitz in 1942; meeting his future wife in the camp; the Ukrainian camp guards; conditions in the camp and how inmates helped each other; going on a death march as the Allies neared Auschwitz; returning home and experiencing antisemitism; spending time in displaced persons camps; working for the United Nations Relief Organization and the Joint Distribution Committee after the war; getting married; immigrating to the United States; and returning to Europe to visit the concentration camps.

    Oral history interview with Fred Gutter

    Oral History

    Fred Gutter, born on December 25, 1926 in Sanok, Poland, describes his family and childhood; his memories of celebrating the Jewish holidays and Sabbath services; attending a high school and experiencing antisemitism; increasing persecution against Jews in the 1930s; moving to Lwów because of the difficulties his family faced; his family’s capture by Russian troops and living under Russian control; being released by the Russians at the end of the war and briefly returning to Sanok; staying in several displaced persons camps; reuniting with his father after the war; receiving aid from the Joint Distribution Committee; spending some time in Palestine and fighting in the 1948 war; immigrating to the United States in 1959; and his feelings about American politics.

    Oral history interview with Henry Greenbaum

    Oral History

    Henry Greenbaum, born on April 1, 1928 in Starachowice, Poland, describes his family and childhood; his memories of his family celebrating the Jewish holidays; being too young to understand the persecution that was happening around him; his family deciding that one of his sisters should immigrate to the United States in 1937; the establishment of a ghetto in Starachowice; his deportation to a labor camp in October 1942; attempting to escape but getting severely wounded and having to stay in the camp; his transfers to Auschwitz and then Flossenbürg; going on a death march from Flossenbürg; his liberation by the U.S. Army on April 25, 1945; spending time in a displaced persons camp after the war until his sister in America could send papers for him and his brother; immigrating to the United States in June 1946; adjusting to life in America and finding a job at a department store; settling in the Washington metro area; and interacting with other Holocaust survivors who live in his community.

    Oral history interview with Ruth Alper

    Oral History

    Ruth Alper, born on February 18, 1932 in Germany, describes her family and childhood; experiencing little antisemitism as a child; her memories of Kristallnacht; receiving an affidavit from family in Detroit, MI in 1939 to immigrate to the United States; arriving in Cuba and staying there until 1941, when she and her family moved to Miami, FL; the small Jewish community in Havana, Cuba; listening to the progress of the war on the radio; experiencing antisemitism in Miami; her recollections of the response of the American Jewish community experiencing the war from abroad; and creating a new life for herself in the United States.

    Oral history interview with Michael Lin

    Oral History

    Michael Lin, born in Riga, Latvia on September 14, 1936, describes his family and childhood; the Jewish community of Riga; the beginning of the war in 1941 and his family being forced to leave their home to settle in Yaroslavl (IAroslavl' ), Russia; catching malaria and developing pneumonia in 1941 but not being able to get medication; moving to another small village in Russia, where he remained until 1944 when his family moved farther east; having to shave his head to avoid getting lice; his father’s draft into the Russian Army; the end of the war and preparing to return to Riga; his experiences with antisemitism in Russia; beginning school after the war in Latvia; his draft into the Russian Army in September 1955; attending school in Moscow after he left the army; immigrating to Israel in 1969 with his wife and children; immigrating to the United States a few years later; and his reflections on sharing his memories of the Holocaust.

    Oral history interview with Hannah Kalman

    Oral History

    Chana Kalman, born on January 20, 1912 in Opoczno, Poland, describes her family and childhood; her experiences with antisemitism; moving to Łódź, Poland when she was eighteen years old; participating in a Zionist organization with several other young people; working during the day and attending a Hebrew school at night; getting married shortly before the death of her father in 1937; giving birth to a child on January 25, 1939; moving into the Łódź ghetto in 1940 and struggling to find food for herself and her son; the liquidation of the ghetto in August 1944; her deportation to Auschwitz with her sister and being forced around by SS men; her transfer to Bergen-Belsen shortly before her liberation; finding out about the death of her husband and child; getting remarried in 1946 and having a son and a daughter; remaining in Germany as a displaced person until 1950, when she immigrated to the United States; settling in Scranton, Pennsylvania; spending some time in Israel once her children had grown up; and her reflections on life in the United States.

    Oral history interview with Dorrit L. Ostberg

    Oral History

    Dorrit Liane Ostberg, born in Vienna, Austria on September 29, 1929, describes her family; her father fleeing to Paris, France after the Germans entered Austria; escaping to Paris with her mother and sister but discovering that her father had fled to Yugoslavia; arriving in Yugoslavia several months later; obtaining Yugoslavian citizenship and living in Slavonski-Brod and Zagreb (both in present day Croatia); fleeing to Crikvenica, Croatia after Croatian guards arrested her father; her family’s deportation to an Italian internment camp on Rab; attending school until she contracted hepatitis and had to stay in a hospital for four months; her liberation in September 1943; her family fleeing on a fishing boat to Italy and living openly as Jews in Bari, Italy with two Italian women; immigrating to Fort Ontario in Oswego, New York in July 1944; attending junior high school; moving to New York City after the war ended; attending university and becoming a math teacher; getting married three times and having one son; and her religious feelings.

    Oral history interview with Alice Eberstarkova Masters

    Oral History

    Alice Eberstarkova Masters, born in Trstená, Czechoslovakia (Slovakia) in 1925, describes her youth; her experiences with antisemitism before the war; immigrating to England in 1939 on a Kindertransport; working as a secretary for the Czech government-in-exile in London during the war; following the BBC broadcasts of the war’s progress; the end of the war and discovering that her parents had died in Auschwitz; her reflections on the Nuremberg Trials; participating in Zionist and Jewish organizations while in England; immigrating to the United States in March 1948; working for the International Monetary Fund; losing her religious faith; getting married and starting a family after the war; and telling her children and grandchildren about her experiences during the Holocaust.

    Oral history interview with Martin Weiss

    Oral History

    Martin Weiss, born in Polana, Czechoslovakia (possibly present day Veľká Poľana, Slovakia) on January 28, 1929, describes his post-war experiences living in Karlovy Vary, Czech Republic with his sister; receiving papers to immigrate to the United States in 1946 and living with a distant cousin; working at a butcher’s shop, so he could support himself; opening his own meat store later in life; eventually deciding to volunteer at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum; and not participating much in his faith anymore.

    Oral history interview with Leonard Gordon

    Oral History

    Leonard Gordon, born on June 8, 1925 in Tilsit, Germany (Sovetsk, Russia), describes growing up in Siauliai, Lithuania; his family; attending Jewish grade school and high school; the German invasion of Lithuania in 1941; trying to escape to Russia but instead having to return home and go into the Siauliai ghetto; his family’s transport to Stutthof in 1944; being transported with his father and brother to Dachau, where they worked at Mühldorf; building the German underground airport, Messerschmitt; his father’s proposal that the three of them commit suicide; hearing about the invasion of Normandy; the liberation of Dachau in May 1945; staying in a displaced persons camp in Feldafing and planning to move to Israel; traveling to Italy and studying to be a radio technician; immigrating to the United States; becoming an electrical engineer and serving in the United States Navy; and rediscovering religion after the death of his wife.

    Oral history interview with Fritz Gluckstein

    Oral History

    Fritz Gluckstein, born January 24, 1927 in Berlin, Germany, describes the end of the war in Berlin; the food and housing shortages; cleaning up rubble from bombings with his father; the difficulties of re-starting his education after the war; immigrating to the United States in January 1948 and settling in the Minneapolis and St. Paul area; becoming a veterinarian; and volunteering for the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.

    Oral history interview with Brigitte Freidin

    Oral History

    Brigitte Freidin, born in Augsburg, Germany on June 3, 1930, describes her family and childhood; her memories of Kristallnacht; her father being arrested and sent to Dachau after Kristallnacht; her father’s release and her parents’ decision to try to immigrate to the United States; traveling to England while waiting for permission to go to the U.S.; immigrating to the U.S. in 1941; staying with relatives who were taking in refugees in Washington, DC; losing touch with much of her family left in Europe and then discovering that many had died; participating in American student clubs during the war; working as a salesgirl when she was fourteen years old to help support her family; getting married and starting a family; and speaking about her personal experiences during the Holocaust.

    Oral history interview with Eva Kristine Belfoure

    Oral History

    Eva Kristine Belfoure, born on October 1, 1924 in Kraków, Poland, describes growing up in a Roman Catholic home; having many Orthodox Jewish friends in her childhood; teaching Catholic prayers to an elderly Jewish lady who was hidden in her home during the war; exchanging goods and delivering messages in the ghetto; being arrested in January 1942 and being taken to the Nordhausen concentration camp, where she worked in various labor camps; her deportation to the Rathsfeld firm, where she worked as a kitchen aide and remained until liberation; doing translation work in a field hospital in Nordhausen after the war; going to the displaced persons camps in Dora, Heilbronn, and Darmstadt; attending the university in Frankfurt after receiving aid from the United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Agency; immigrating to the United States in June 1950 and marrying a sailor in 1953; teaching languages in Baltimore County for twenty-five years; and translating for the Red Cross and the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.

    Oral history interview with George Hill Leonard

    Oral History

    George Leonard, a concentration camp liberator born on December 24, 1921 in Malden, Massachusetts, describes his childhood; his training in Alabama and California before he and his unit went to England; becoming the company runner, staying close to the captain and lieutenants; translating codes and delivering messages while at war; his memories of the fights at the Siegfried Line; receiving the Bronze Star after being wounded; traveling through parts of Germany along the Czech border and getting ordered to the Mauthausen concentration camp in Austria; helping to give the victims a proper burial; staying in the Mauthausen area for about six weeks until he went to Spital am Pyhrn, Austria in late July; leaving for America on December 15, 1945; getting married; and teaching at Harvard University after the war.

    Oral history interview with Kurt Roberg

    Oral History

    Kurt Roberg, born May 16, 1924 in Celle, Germany, discusses his childhood; attending a German school where he was the only Jewish student; his father Victor Roberg’s profession as a merchant for the firm Gebrüder Freidberg; his family’s religious practices; Kristallnacht; antisemitism in his hometown; details of German politics of the time; the boycott of Jewish businesses on April 1, 1933; how a retired teacher, Hal Lotheim, taught local Jewish students; the Hitler Youth in his community; his Bar Mitzvah; how his brother, Harry, immigrated in 1936 to Holland, the Netherlands to live with their maternal uncle, Wilhelm Marx; how his father had to close his business in 1937; his mother’s 1938 trip to Hamburg, Germany to visit the American consulate; how his father was sent to Oranienburg after Kristallnacht; his father’s release and experiences in Oranienburg; his journey to Holland to join his brother and uncle; how his mother and father used American visa applications to travel to Holland; how his mother, father, and brother immigrated to the United States from Holland in 1940; German attacks on Rotterdam, the Netherlands; being interned in Holland for his status as a German citizen; being sent out of Rotterdam to Gouda, the Netherlands; how a woman organized transports of children from Holland and Belgium to reunite with their parents; receiving his American visa in January 1941; leaving Holland in March 1941; traveling from Germany to Spain and then to Lisbon, Portugal by train with other children; traveling by American ship from Lisbon, Portugal to the United States; being held on Ellis Island for a month because of visa complications; living in New Rochelle, New York with his family; learning about Pearl Harbor; how he and his brother joined the army in 1943; experiencing antisemitism in the army; his experience in the Pacific during World War II; and his life with his family after the war.

    Oral history interview with Alfred Schnog

    Oral History

    Alfred Schnog, born January 25, 1931, discusses his childhood in Cologne, Germany; growing up in a relatively secular Jewish family on Universität Straße; his relationship with his grandparents who lived in Deutz, a suburb of Cologne; seeing Nazi parades and looking on with interest but feeling unwelcome; being harassed by Nazi Youth on his way home from school with his twin brother, Norbert; seeing signs in businesses barring Jews and learning that few business owners enforced this policy; spending Passover in a Catholic hospital after being injured in a car wreck and being provided with kosher food by the nuns; watching his father throw pieces of a gun into the Rhine when guns were banned for Jews; his father’s metal trade business being taken over by non-Jews; hearing about concentration camps but believing they would primarily affect immigrants (particularly Poles) and seeing Polish children taken out of his classes by the Gestapo; his parents’ search for a way out of Germany and eventual escape to the Netherlands in the summer of 1938; his family’s return to Germany in November 1938 to retrieve belongings; witnessing Kristallnacht from an upper-floor window of the Dome Hotel; his family being taken to jail as they tried to return to the Netherlands after the German borders were sealed, but eventually being allowed to go; attending Jewish school in Amsterdam and learning Dutch; applying to move to the United States and first going by plane to England in Jan 1940, then by ship (the Britannic) from Liverpool to New York City in April 1940; attending school in the United States; speaking Dutch with his brother because they did not want to be associated with Germans; experiencing discrimination in school when his third grade teacher admonished him and his brother for wearing an American flag pin on a holiday when they were not born in America; having his Bar Mitzvah and attending Hebrew school at the synagogue in Regal Park; experiencing antisemitism as his family vacationed in the Adirondacks, finding many signs restricting Jews from staying at hotels; learning that his grandparents had been killed in a concentration camp; graduating from Forest Hill High School and then receiving a degree in engineering from Cornell; going to Korea in 1954 to serve two years in the U.S. Army; starting and running a company; learning that a pair of his father’s cufflinks were given to his father in recognition of his Bar Mitzvah by Claus von Stauffenberg, a German officer who later led an assassination attempt against Hitler; his reflections on the way those who did not experience the Holocaust and WWII view it; his children’s knowledge of his and his parents’ experiences and how it has affected them; and his thoughts on Israel.

    Oral history interview with Fred Taucher

    Oral History

    Fred Taucher, born on January 29, 1933 in Berlin, Germany, describes his half-brother’s suicide to avoid Nazi concentration camps; the destruction of his father’s store during Kristallnacht; moving to a ghetto in 1938; his father’s inability to leave Germany despite his United State’s citizenship; his family’s relationship with a high ranking Nazi member; his father going into slave labor and then being sent to Auschwitz in 1943; his family’s escape from arrest; living in subway stations to avoid Allied bombings; getting arrested, tortured, and sent to Dachau in April 1945; escaping from the Nazis with some Russian soldiers; his mother’s death during a crossfire between the Germans and the Russians; his 1946 Bar Mitzvah in Berlin; life in Berlin after the Holocaust; his 1946 arrival in America; his decision to join the U.S. Army; his experiences trying to obtain United States citizenship; his life in America as a citizen and his activism in Holocaust survivor networks.

    Oral history interview with Helen Goldkind

    Oral History

    Helen Goldkind, born in Czechoslovakia (near Volosyanka, Ukraine) on July 9, 1928, describes her early childhood; experiencing antisemitism as a child; her recollections of the Nazi occupation of her town in 1944; her deportation to Auschwitz; how her grandfather was beaten to death for not relinquishing a Torah scroll; being sent to work at a munitions factory in Germany; being with her sister when they were liberated by British troops in 1945; spending time in the Bergen-Belsen displaced persons camp to recover; receiving help from the Swedish Red Cross and traveling to Sweden to recover; immigrating to the United States in 1946 with her sister; finding a job as a secretary in New York City; getting married and moving to Baltimore; the death of her sister and raising her children; and her reflections on the current state of the world.

    Oral history interview with Inge Katzenstein

    Oral History

    Inge Katzenstein (née Berg), born March 27, 1929 in Cologne, Germany, describes her family; having to move in with some of her extended family in Cologne after Kristallnacht; attempting to illegally cross into Holland; getting into Holland but immediately being captured and imprisoned; immigrating to Kenya but not being able to leave their home their without permission; attending stenography school to become a secretary; immigrating to the United States in 1951 and settling in Vineland, New Jersey; getting married and raising her children as Orthodox Jews; and returning to Germany twice and getting treated well.

    Oral history interview with Werner Katzenstein

    Oral History

    Werner Katzenstein, born in Wallensen, Germany on April 29, 1922, describes his childhood; having to leave school in 1933 after Hitler came to power in 1933; his father going to prison because he was Jewish but getting released after about a week; his father being forced to close down his business; buying property in Holland and immigrating there in 1937; immigrating to the United States in 1939 and settling in Somerville, New Jersey; being considered an enemy alien; registering for the draft and being called to service in March 1944; being sent for basic training to Camp Blanding in Florida; being classified for intelligence and reconnaissance work; joining the 100th Infantry Division in Fort Bragg, North Carolina; his deployment to Europe; going through southern France and the Vosges Mountains; and getting wounded in combat; returning to his platoon in January 1945 and going through Germany; being in combat in Heidelberg; working for the military government; visiting family who had been in Theresienstadt; returning for New Jersey on April 30,1946; and getting married and settling in Washington, D.C.

    Oral history interview with Fred Goldman

    Oral History

    Fred Goldman, born in Fürth, Germany on September 6, 1915, describes his childhood; his memories of Hitler coming to power; finishing high school and moving to Berlin to train to be a cantor and teacher at a Jewish Teacher’s College; returning to Fürth after three years and moving back in with his mother and sister; immigrating to the United States in January 1939 because a distant cousin vouched for him; arriving in the U.S. with twelve dollars and taking a job as a busboy at a department store in New York; marrying Ruth Schuster, a Jewish women also from Fürth; working in a uniform factory until he was drafted into the army in March 1943; becoming a member of the medical corps but then being transferred into the military intelligence unit when the army learned he was fluent in German; going to Camp Ritchie in Maryland; interrogating prisoners in Europe; staying with the army until March 1946, when he returned to the United States and became a diamond setter; and settling in Silver Spring, Maryland after the war.

    Oral history interview with Paulette Stessin

    Oral History

    Paulette Stessin, born in Metz, France, discusses her family and childhood in France; her parents, who sold clothing in the market; keeping kosher; her understanding of events in Germany in 1938 when she was 17 or 18; her family’s move to Angouleme, France where they thought they would be safe; daily life in Angouleme; her work as a hairdresser in Brive la Gaillarde, France, where there was one Jewish family; being arrested near Brive in April 1944; being transferred to Drancy and then to Auschwitz-Birkenau; her memories of Auschwitz; working on a road hauling stones; “Pitchipoi,” a term referring to the imaginary place they would be sent to and used by the prisoners in Drancy; the addition of a chemical to the women’s soup to suppress their menstrual cycles, which did not work on her; deciding to join her “camp sister”, a Dutch woman in another barrack, who was being deported; arriving at Bergen-Belsen; her memories of the camp; being liberated in April 1945; traveling to Paris; her reintegration at the Hotel Lutetia; and her decision to return to Angouleme.

    Oral history interview with Margitta Cooper

    Oral History

    Margitta Cooper, born on June 10, 1929 in Speyer, Germany, describes her family and childhood; her relationships with her non-Jewish friends; her memories of Kristallnacht; her father being arrested and sent to Dachau after Kristallnacht; her family’s arrest in 1940 and being taken to the Gurs concentration camp; gathering with about 20 other children and being told they were to be sent to the United States; separating from her parents and seeing them for the last time; spending time in a small French town before her immigration; finally travelling to the United States by boat in 1941; taking a train to Baltimore, MD to recover with the other immigrant children; meeting an uncle in New York City; finding out about the fate of her family; settling into life in Baltimore and receiving a job at the Johns Hopkins hospital; and her reflections on what the world knew about the Holocaust.

    Oral history interview with Erika Eckstut

    Oral History

    Erica Eckstut, born June 12, 1928 in Znojmo, Czechoslovakia (Czech Republic), describes her family; staying with her sister and brother-in-law at the end of the war; marrying a member of the Czech Army, Robert Kauder, on August 28, 1945; living in Freiwaldau (Jeseník), Czech Republic; how her husband was the big boss (Velitel) in the city, removing Germans from the Sudetenland area; moving to Prague, Czech Republic; having two children over the next few years; how her husband testified at the Nuremberg Trials; the death of her husband in 1957; immigrating to the United States; finally arriving in the United States with her children on April 11, 1960 and being greeted by a swarm of reporters because she was among the first to be allowed to leave Communist Czechoslovakia; attending technology school; living with her sister, her sister’s husband, and their children for a year before getting her own apartment; meeting her current husband in 1962; her diagnosis of lung cancer in 1989; participating in a cancer research study and being one of two survivors of the seventy-five person study; and volunteering at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.

    Oral history interview with Tole Johannes Madna

    Oral History

    Tolé Johannes Hendricus Madna, born June 8, 1931 in The Hague, the Netherlands, describes his Indonesian father and his Dutch Protestant mother; living in Holland during the war; the divorce of his parents in 1936; living with his father and a nanny; hiding the infant son, Alfred Munzer, of family friends; the child staying with his family for three and a half years and calling him Bobby; moving to Belgium after the war; and immigrating to the United States.

    Oral history interview with Henri Dupuy

    Oral History

    Henri Dupuy, born June 5, 1920 in Thiviers, France and designated Righteous Among Nations, discusses his anger at the French government and Germany; his decision to join the Resistance; Constantin, nom de guerre Jambard, leader of the Armée Secrète (AS) who formed the Maquis in 1942 in Perigueux, France; how his mother, Helene, hid Maquis members in her home and procured ration cards; joining the police to avoid the draft; guarding the Perigueux Gestapo headquarters and stealing letters stamped “Dordogne,” denouncing French citizens; the November 10, 1943 Maquis attack in Perigueux and roundup and deportation of 350 Jews to Auschwitz; the arrest of the Gruska family and escape of their children; how his mother placed two Gruska sons with rural families and the daughter in a convent; how his mother secured forged identity papers with the complicity of Secretary-General Lafont, joining the Messignac Maquis; Maquis attacks from the woods; the supply of small arms by the Riberac police and by parachute drops; how the Maquis were denounced and attacked by Germans; hiding in Coursac, Dordogne, France and joining the Roland Maquis; a Maquis attack on the Neuvic-Bordeaux train carrying French francs to Germany in July or August 1944; and how the Maquis offloaded the francs in a truck to Saint-Alvere, a resistance center in the Dordogne, to support Maquis families and resistance activities.

    Oral history interview with Halina Peabody

    Oral History

    Halina Peabody (née Halina Janna Litman), born in Kraków, Poland on December 12, 1932, describes her childhood; taking on a false identity (Halina Litinska) during the war and pretending to be Catholic; hiding in Jaroslaw with her mother and younger sister; being injured on the day of liberation by a hand grenade; being liberated by the Russian Army; living in group homes with her sister after the war; traveling to Italy with her family and staying at a displaced persons camp; traveling to England and then going to Israel in 1957; taking a job at the American embassy in Tel Aviv; marrying a Bulgarian Jew who worked for the U.S. Information Agency; leaving Israel in 1968 with her husband and five year old son; immigrating to Palo Alto, California, where her husband could get a job at the Hoover Institute; moving to Washington, D.C., where Halina’s husband got a job working for “The Voice of America”; getting a divorce from her husband in 1972 and then marrying Richard Peabody; volunteering at the Holocaust Museum; and getting involved with survivor groups such as the Association of Child Survivors.

    Oral history interview with Marcel Bercau

    Oral History

    Marcel Bercau, born October 17, 1920 in Paris, France, describes his Romanian family; restrictions placed on Jews during German occupation; his deportation to Drancy in 1941; working in a locksmith's workshop and remaining in Drancy with his father and brother for a year before they were deported; going to Auschwitz, where he worked as an earth-worker and then as a bricklayer; working in the schlosser-electriker division, which allowed him to find a little bit of extra food; the evacuation of Auschwitz on January 17, 1945; going on a death march with 60,000 other prisoners and traveling through the snow and the cold with no food; arriving in Gleiwitz, Germany (Gliwice, Poland), where they were put in open cattle cars and transported to Oranienburg; how while they passed through Prague, Czech Republic people threw them bread and water containers; how four out of five people died during the transport; the German abandonment of Landsberg, where he was being held; being rescued and taken to Augsburg, where there was a repatriation camp; and returning to Paris to start a family.

    Oral history interview with Rolph Hammel

    Oral History

    Rolph Hammel, born on September 11, 1912, in Karlsruhe, Germany, describes his family; his involvement with a Zionist youth movement; being forced to do military service in 1933 in Dijon; getting scarlet fever; moving to Strasbourg, France and working in a hardware store before starting his own faucet and fixtures business in 1937; being allowed to remain in France because he had inherited citizenship from his mother who was French; working in the DCA during the war; helping to save 70 Jews in Périgueux, France; going to the ORT school; and his reflections on the treatment of Jews during the war.

    Oral history interview with Norbert V. Hilsberg

    Oral History

    Norbert Hilsberg, born on September 3, 1914 in Vienna, Austria, describes his family; graduating college and serving in the Austrian military for three months; starting the forms to immigrate to the United States after the Anschluss; his parents’ immigration to Cuba, where they stayed until April 1941, when they attained visas for the United States; receiving his visa in June 1938 and traveling to the United States; living with his uncle in Philadelphia, PA when he arrived; learning about the invasion of Poland; working in the advertising department of the Litz department store in Philadelphia; volunteering for the US Army in February 1941; getting sent to an engineering camp, where he made maps; the attachment of his outfit to the general headquarters in DC; being forced to remain in the US when his unit went abroad because he was not yet eligible for his American citizenship; receiving his citizenship in April 1943 and working on plans for the invasion of southern France and Austria; living in North Africa for nearly a year; being sent to Hawaii; leaving the army in 1945; accepting a job with the war department; and settling in Washington, DC with his family.

    Oral history interview with Alfred Munzer

    Oral History

    Alfred Munzer, born in The Hague, Netherlands on November 23, 1941, describes his family; how his parents debated over having him circumcised; his family going into hiding in May 1942; his father being admitted into a psychiatric hospital and his mother working at the psychiatric hospital as a nurse’s aide; his two older sisters being taken in by a Catholic family; going into hiding with a family friend and neighbor, Tolé Madna; how he played in the backyard and was called Bobby; his parents being sent to a concentration camp on December 26, 1942; his mother surviving the war, working first as a seamstress and later as an electrician; how his father died soon after liberation; the death of his sisters in Auschwitz; immigrating to Brussels, Belgium in 1952 and to the United States in 1958 with his mother; settling in New York where he attended Brooklyn College; going on to attend medical school at the State University of New York, Downstate Medical Center in Brooklyn; becoming a lung specialist and interning at several well known-hospitals before doing military service at Andrews Air Force base in Washington, D.C.; and settling in D.C. with his partner Joel Wind.

    Oral history interview with Maria Mandel

    Oral History

    Maria Myriam Mandel, born 1938 in Czerwinsk, Poland, discusses the assembly of the town's citizens in a square and their deportation; her family's escape through a bakery door; hiding from the Gestapo in granaries, cemeteries, and the woods; her parents’ execution by the Gestapo in 1942; her placement by her parents in a neighbor's home from 1942 to 1947; her new name, Katia Gortak; the kindness of her foster mother and brother; her Catholic education; her antisemitic feelings; the painful loss of her brother and sister who were placed in other families and abandoned; the arrival of the Jewish Joint Distribution Committee (JDC) at the end of the war; reuniting with her uncles in America and France; her shock at learning she was Jewish; her transfer to a Jewish orphanage in Czerwinsk, where she received a Jewish education; her recollections of antisemitism at the war's end; her life in the orphanage from 1947 to 1949; visits by her foster mother; her bitterness when visits ceased; how the JDC changed her birth date from 1938 to 1937 to allow her to travel alone from Poland to France; her arrival in Paris, France; her refusal to join her uncle in America; and her life in Perigueux, France with her paternal uncle and his family.

    Oral history interview with Yvonne Mignot de Royere

    Oral History

    Yvonne Mignot de Royere (née Roux), born in Clermont d’Excideuil, France on February, 22, 1925, describes how she and her father, Joseph Roux, saved 21 Jews during World War II; the evacuation of Jews in Strasbourg in 1939; working with her father, who was the mayor; taking in French Jewish refugees; how her work as a municipal clerk gave her access to forms and papers, which she used to provide the Jews with forged identity papers and ration cards; hiding Jews in the village rectory; one of the Jewish women giving birth to her daughter, Arlette Veil, in 1943; she and her father saving several families (last names: Robertso, Schwab, Wertz, and Veil); how three of the families were hidden in the caretaker’s house at the Chateau du Noyer and she helped them secure food; how she occasionally left the mayor’s office unlocked so that the families could secure additional ration cards; living in Excideuil from 1942 to 1944, after which the Jews returned to Alsace to rebuild their lives; staying in touch with the people she helped; and being honored with her father by Yad Vashem as Righteous Among Nations in 1982.

    Oral history interview with Susan Berlin

    Oral History

    Susan Berlin (née Suzanna Reichman), born on June 22, 1926 in Rožňava, Czechoslovakia (present day Slovakia), describes her family; her childhood in Rožňava; her memories of the rise of Nazi power; immigrating to the United States on August 3, 1939; settling in New York City, where she went to Julia Richmond High School; graduating in 1942 and attending Brooklyn College for her undergraduate degree and the University of Pennsylvania for her master’s degree; graduating in 1947 and moving to Washington D.C., where she got a job in the Army Intelligence Map Service as an Army Intelligence Research Analyst; marrying in 1950 and having three daughters; retiring from the Army Intelligence Map Service to raise her daughters; becoming an art teacher when her children got older; and volunteering at the Holocaust Memorial Museum in the Education Department.

    Oral history interview with John Bucur

    Oral History

    John Bucur, born in Youngstown, Ohio on March 5, 1925, describes his childhood; his Romanian-American parents; the multiracial community he grew up in; graduating high school in 1943 as the valedictorian of his class and receiving a scholarship to Ohio University; enlisting in the Army and being sent to Fort Sill, where he received training to be in Battery B of the 17th Observation Battalion; his first assignment watching a ship off the shore of Omaha Beach in France on D-Day; his unit’s move through England, France, and Germany and then going on a tour of Buchenwald at the end of the war; taking college courses at an American School in Biarritz, France after the war; returning home on December 7, 1945 and being discharged from the army; finishing his degree at Ohio University and graduating in 1948; going on to medical school and becoming a neurosurgeon; having five children with two wives; and moving to Arlington, Virginia to found Fairfax Hospital, Northern Virginia Doctor’s Hospital, and the National Orthopedic Hospital.

    Oral history interview with Lore Schneider

    Oral History

    Lore Schneider (née Heti Lore Koppel), born on October 10, 1924 in Bochum, Germany, describes her family; seeing the Nazi youth in her neighborhood; observing the Nazi parades from her home on the main street; immigrating to the United States in June 1934; settling in Washington, D.C. and attending public school; obtaining U.S. citizenship in 1939, five years after her family’s arrival; attending college at night and working as a stenographer at the Interior Department during the war; and marrying in 1946 and having three children.

    Oral history interview with Frank Liebermann

    Oral History

    Frank Nathan Liebermann (né Franz Natan Liebermann), born in Gleiwitz (Gliwice), Poland on January 19, 1929, describes his family; celebrating Jewish holidays; immigrating to the United States in October 1938 and moving to Dayton, Ohio, where his father set up his medical practice; his family’s involvement in the Jewish community and helping many European Jews to immigrate to the United States; attending Western Reserve University; meeting his wife during his sophomore year and marrying her soon after he graduated; working for a textile converting firm for many years before retiring and moving to Washington, D.C., where his two daughters had already settled; finding a job at a travel firm; and beginning to volunteer at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum after September 11th, 2001.

    Oral history interview with Marianne Liebermann

    Oral History

    Marianne Liebermann, born in Vienna, Austria on October 29, 1929, describes her family and childhood; her education; her father searching for ways to leave Vienna and immigrating to the United States after the Anschluss; her father’s efforts to convince a gentile American family, with whom he had previously done business, to vouch for his family; boarding a train to Cherbourg, France in September 1938 and transferring to the Europa ship, which took them to the U.S.; arriving in New York on October 3, 1938 and living there when the war broke out in 1939; graduating from Barnard University and later going on to get her master’s degree at Adelphi University; marrying Frank Liebermann on November 23, 1950; settling down in Great Neck, New York and having three children; becoming a teacher and spending many years teaching English as a second language; and settling in Maryland.

    Oral history interview with Thea S. Rips

    Oral History

    Thea S. Rips, born in Trieste, Italy on February 24, 1922, describes her childhood; her family moving to Rijeka, Croatia when she was five years old; growing up in a Catholic family but having many Jewish friends; witnessing the persecution of nearby Jewish families; aiding several families in their attempts to escape Italy; wanting to become a doctor and working in a shipyard infirmary in Rijeka; getting a job working on the Marshall Plan after the war in Rome, Italy; being offered a chance to move to the United States and work as an interpreter in 1955; meeting her husband, who she was engaged to for eighteen years before they married in February 1976; going to the United States and living in New York; moving to Washington, D.C.; and the death of her husband in September of 1994.

    Oral history interview with Andrew Glass

    Oral History

    Andrew (né Andrej) James Glass, born November 30, 1935 in Warsaw, Poland, discusses his early childhood; spending time in his wealthy grandfather's house because of his mother's illness; his grandfather, Jacob, repatriating millions of dollars which had been deposited in Switzerland, New York, and London, back into zlotys in Poland because of a 1939 government decree; hearing planes and bombs exploding in September 1939; his father being forced to clear rubble and fill sandbags; supplying gas to a gentile taxi driver and two families driving east on September 13; going by horse and cart and then by train and on foot to Vilnius, Lithuania; his father getting picked up by a Lithuanian patrol but being released when he agreed with them that President Roosevelt was Jewish; his family receiving three Japanese visas from Chiune Sugihara, the Japanese Consul; paying 600 dollars to get Soviet transit visas; traveling on the Trans-Siberian Railway and arriving in Japan in December 1940; getting three residence visas to the Dominican Republic and a one week transit visa from the American Consul in Tokyo, Japan; sailing on the Kama Kumakara in April 1941 to San Francisco, CA; taking the train to New York, NY and staying there until 1943; immigrating to Canada; re-entering the U.S. under the Polish quota; his father working in a defense plant and his mother working as a seamstress in New York; how he determined to not feel different; working for the New York Herald Tribune, the Washington Post, Senators Javits and Percy, and Cox newspapers from 1974 to 2001; becoming a Fellow at Harvard and the managing editor of The Hill newspaper; and feeling that he is living on borrowed time, that life is precious, and that there is a randomness to who survives.

    Oral history interview with Renate Fischer Chernoff

    Oral History

    Renate Fischer Chernoff, born on June 25, 1929 in Breslau, Germany (Wrocław, Poland), describes her early childhood; moving to Racibórz, Poland with her family in 1934; being sent to Berlin, Germany to stay with her grandmother in 1937; her family choosing to immigrate to Canada since her father was a physician; arriving in 1938 and settling in Montreal; moving to New Brunswick; her parents adopting Saul Silvershein, a sixteen year old Polish boy from a displaced persons camp; attending college at Dalhousie University; meeting her husband while in graduate school at the University of Chicago; marrying in New Brunswick in 1953 and moving to Saint Louis, MO where her husband finished his residency and their first child was born; moving to Durham, NC, where they had two more children; and settling in the Washington, DC area in 1980.

    Oral history interview with Eli Dortort

    Oral History

    Eli Dortort (né Klemfner), born on August 30, 1920 in Zdachov, Galicia, Poland, describes his family and childhood; escaping his hometown a few hours before the Germans invaded; traveling with some Russian soldiers to Kiev, Ukraine and then to Starobielsk (Starobil's'k), Ukraine, where he volunteered for the Polish Army; his unit being sent to Israel, where he deserted and worked in a kibbutz; staying in the kibbutz for a year before he joined the British Army and was sent to Italy; later being stationed in Teheran, Iran and Egypt; returning to Israel after the war and fighting in the War of Independence; staying in Israel until the late 1950s, when he immigrated to the United States; and settling in New York City, where he met his wife and had a daughter.

    Oral history interview with Hilda Seftor

    Oral History

    Hilda Seftor (née Cohen), born in Edinburgh, Scotland on August 21, 1923, describes her family and childhood; finding out about the Nazi invasion of Poland; helping her local Jewish community and finding homes for thirty-five Jewish refugee children; her parents founding the Whittingehame Farm School; teaching the school’s Jewish children how to farm and giving them a traditional education; attending the Edinburgh College of Domestic Science and graduating with a degree in household and institutional management in 1943; working in the Edinburgh school system and later at a wartime nursery preparing meals for children; marrying after the war and immigrating to the United States; having four sons; moving to Washington, DC in 1994; and volunteering at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.

    Oral history interview with Felix Nicinski

    Oral History

    Felix Nicinski (né Fievish Nicinski), born December 7, 1925 in Lochów, Poland near Lódź, Poland, discusses his early childhood; moving in to the fenced-in ghetto in early 1940; how the Germans bombed their city before entering it; being taken to a work camp in Lienzingen (Mühlacker, Germany) in late 1940 with the other 14 to 18 year old boys to dig ditches; slipping away on a march in the summer of 1941 to work and escape to the fenced-in ghetto in Kalisz, Poland; receiving the false identity of an escaped 27 year old; Kalisz Jews being sent to the Lódź ghetto in 1941; being forced to wear the yellow star and beaten by the German guards; working at an ammunitions plants in Skarżysko-Kamienna for 10 months in 1942; being sent to Dora in 1943 and then to Buchenwald in 1944 for six months; his transfer to Bergen-Belsen in 1944; being liberated by the British on April 15, 1945; living in Bamberg, Germany between 1945 to 1948 and learning how to be a barber; immigrating to Australia in 1948 and living there for ten years; immigrating to the United States in 1958; and marrying another survivor of Bergen-Belsen.

    Oral history interview with David Brombart

    Oral History

    David Brombart, born on August 3, 1933 in Brussels, Belgium, discusses his childhood; the German invasion in May 1940 and being able to attend school until mid-1941; the deportation of his sister, Sarah, and his mother in August 1942; running away from a boarding school in Ikla (possibly Uccle in Brussels) and his father placing him in the home of business clients; going into hiding in Hornu, Belgium but visiting his father, who was in hiding in another city; his liberation in September 1944 and returning to Brussels with his father; finding out that his grandfather was a member of the Jewish Committee which made up lists for the Germans; returning to school at age 11 and learning how to write; serving in the Belgian Army from 1952 to 1954 and becoming the head of the Socialist Democratic Youth until 1958; having a full time job with the Young Socialist Guard and attending international conferences as the Labor Secretary from 1958 to 1964; living in Paris, France from 1958 to 1959; getting married in 1961; being offered a job to direct the African Labor Institute of the American organization AFL-CIO; moving to New York and advising labor movements in Algeria, Morocco, and Tunisia; becoming Deputy Director of the International Department of the AFL-CIO under Lane Kirkland; and being honored for his international labor work by the governments of Dahomey, Togo, and Senegal.

    Oral history interview with Gunter Haimann

    Oral History

    Gunter Haimann, born on January 26, 1922 in Koblenz, Germany, describes his childhood and family; his parents deciding that it was time to leave Germany in the beginning of 1937, when Jewish children were banned from public schools; immigrating to the United States and living with his aunt in Queens, New York; attending high school and night school to learn English; graduating in June 1941 and finding a job at an auto shop; his draft into the army at the beginning of the war and being trained as an interrogator; teaching interrogating techniques at Camp Ritchie in Maryland; his transfer into the 101st Airborne; going to England and jumping on D-Day and landing in Carentan, France; serving with the 101st for the remainder of the war; receiving a Purple Heart after being wounded in Bastogne, Belgium; not taking religion in to account while he was fighting; jumping onto Holland on Rosh Hashonah in 1944; going into Düsseldorf, Germany; finding Hitler’s stationary and using it to write letters; going to Austria and finding Mr. and Mrs. Goering and speaking with Mrs. Goering; seeing Holocaust survivors walking home; returning to the United States and starting a luncheonette business; and meeting his wife and having three children.

    Oral history interview with Alfred Lakritz

    Oral History

    Alfred Julian Lakritz, born on June 1, 1934 in Kiel, Germany, describes his family; narrowly escaping deportation to Poland in 1939 and moving to Antwerp, Belgium and then Marmande, France with his family; experiencing antisemitism from his peers in Marmande; how his father was arrested; speaking with the men who arrested his father many years later, and their regret; being sent with his brother to a Jewish summer camp in Creuse, France in July 1942; going into hiding in various safe houses for two and a half years after leaving the camp; ending up at a convent in Lourdes, France, where they met a Jewish French woman who took them in for the remainder of the war; being placed in a Catholic home in Tarbes with his brother after the war; reuniting with their mother in Marmande and applying for visas to the United States; immigrating to the United States in 1950 and settling in Oakland, CA; attending the University of California at Berkeley; completing his law degree; moving to Los Angeles, CA with his wife, whom he had met in law school; and raising a family.

    Oral history interview with Rita Rubinstein

    Oral History

    Rita Rubinstein (née Frieda Rifka Lifschitz), born on December 12, 1936 in Romania, describes her family and early childhood; her father’s draft into the Russian Army; going into hiding in Transnistria, Ukraine in September 1941; her liberation by Russian troops in April 1944; returning to their home in Romania and discovering that her father had died during the war; attending school for the first time and learning Russian and Ukrainian; traveling to Munich, Germany and posing as a Greek refugee; living in the Feldafing displaced persons camp for some time; developing tuberculosis in 1947 and having to go to a sanitarium in Augsburg, Germany; immigrating to the United States with her mother in September 1949 and settling in New York, NY; and getting married in 1959 and starting a family.

    Oral history interview with Anita Etzyon

    Oral History

    Anita Etzyon, born on October 4, 1941 in Boryslav, Poland (present day Ukraine), describes her family and childhood; being one year old when her mother died from tuberculosis; having few direct memories of the war but being told about her family’s life during that time; being taken away to live with a Christian family and getting baptized to better fit into her surroundings; returning to live with her father, who had remarried, after the war; living in a Jewish neighborhood and attending a Jewish school; moving to various cities around Poland with her father and step-mother; being the only Jew in her school in Swidnica, Poland; adjusting to life as a Jew after she had spent four years as a Christian; immigrating to Israel in 1951; learning Hebrew and adjusting to life in Israel; getting married to avoid serving in the Israeli Army; having a daughter; immigrating to the United States with her husband and daughter 1963; settling in Washington, DC and working for a Jewish Day School; and her reflections on being a Jew in the modern world.

    Oral history interview with Melvin Galun

    Oral History

    Melvin Galun, born on May 10, 1940 in Kowal, Poland, describes his parents’ participation in the Zionist movement; his mother’s stories about Jews being sent away to the camps; going into hiding in the nearby forests; his memory of his family’s liberation by Russian troops; staying in several German displaced persons camps after the war; his early education in the displaced persons camps; participating in Zionist youth movements in the camps; immigrating to the United States in November 1949; his studies in the United States at a Yeshiva school; traveling to Israel after graduating school and working in a kibbutz for a year; and getting married in 1963 and starting a family.

    Oral history interview with Magdalena Farkas Berkovics

    Oral History

    Magdalena Farkas Berkovics, born on July 15, 1919 in Cluj, Romania, discusses her childhood, schooling and musical training in a conservatory; experiencing low level antisemitism; getting married in 1939; living in her house in the Cluj ghetto with other women after the city’s Jewish men had been taken away for forced labor; conditions in the ghetto, including food scarcity and the black market; providing piano lessons to Christian children; being deported in June 1944; terrible conditions in the train car; her arrival at Auschwitz; being separated from her family except for one 25-year-old cousin; how her clothes were taken away and her hair removed; going to Stutthof in August 1944 and then digging ditches in Steinort (Sztynort, Poland), Elbing (Elbląg, Poland), and Groudentz; speaking about freedom with the other women and singing Hungarian songs; being liberated and traveling to Satu Mare, Romania, where Jewish volunteers helped her return to Cluj; how she found Christians living in her house and learned that she was the only survivor in her family; marrying, Zoltan Berkovics, in 1946; the birth of their son, Tiberius, who later changed his name to John Sylvanis because of antisemitism in Romania; how Communists nationalized her house and forced her to pay rent; teaching in the Romanian conservatory for 30 years; immigrating with her husband to the United States in the 1980s; and feeling very grateful for American liberty and democracy.

    Oral history interview with Sol Mackler

    Oral History

    Sol Mackler, born on January 15,1921 in Poland, discusses his childhood in a small village; visiting relatives in nearby Radom; being forced to live in a ghetto in 1939 with sixteen people in one house; wearing a yellow star; in late 1941 walking seven miles to Pionki labor camp, being given a striped uniform and the number 1058; working in a munitions factory, then laying railway tracks in a tunnel; escaping with four other prisoners to the forest and joining Polish Jewish partisans; being captured by Germans and being sent by train to Sachsenhausen; seeing his sister and her baby there; smuggling his one year old nephew into Pionki to the child’s father, a tailor who made Nazi uniforms; waiting for Russians at liberation; going back to his village and being severely beaten; living in Bad Nauheim displaced persons camp in Germany; working on the black market selling diamonds from Belgium; arriving in the United States in December 1949 after being sponsored by two Jewish Californian wine makers; moving to New York to work and getting married in 1956; working for his brother-in-law; and finding out his parents were executed in Treblinka.

    Oral history interview with Theresia Bauer

    Oral History

    Theresia Bauer discusses her involvement with the League of German Girls (Bund Deutscher Mädel), which paralleled the boys’ Hitler Youth (Hitler Jugend); the Soviet occupation of Austria, a time period in which she was constantly hiding from soldiers; and her husband's experience as a prisoner of war in Russia.

    Oral history interview with Carolina Taitz

    Oral History

    Carolina Taitz (née Lena Knoch), born on February 24, 1929 in Russia on a train, discusses her childhood in Viesite, Latvia; having friendly relations with schoolmates in her Latvian public school; how her father, a tree doctor, lost his business and the family house and was temporarily imprisoned as a capitalist when the Russian Communists occupied the town; experiencing a lot of antisemitism; seeing Jews being shot on the street when the Germans came in 1941; being forced to live in the ghetto in Riga, Latvia with five people to a room and little food; getting hit in the eye when a German soldier caught her with a cooked potato; being forced to work in a shoe polish factory from 5 AM to 5 PM; going on a forced march with 30,000 people guarded by German soldiers; seeing and hearing people being shot in a ditch in the Rumbula forest; walking with her mother, sister, and 200 other women to Termini prison; staying on the roof in the cold for two weeks in November 1942 and the birth of a baby, named Termina; going back to the ghetto; dressing as a boy going to work and escaping during a second Aktion when she was 14 years old; taking off her yellow star; being sheltered by a Russian Evangelist priest, Vladimir Michko, and his sister for two and a half years; living in their cellar; going back to Riga at liberation; her mother returning from Auschwitz but dying soon after; attending acting school; getting married and having a daughter; trying for 10 years to go to the United States, and finally getting a visa with the help of Eleanor Roosevelt; arriving in New York in March 1966; working at the New York City Opera for 19 years in charge of costumes, wigs, and makeup for the productions; being widowed twice and moving to Washington, DC in 2008; and still seeing her mother and little brother in her dreams and herself running away from German soldiers.

    Oral history interview with Helen Schwartz

    Oral History

    Helen Schwartz (b. Hela Kirschner), born in 1925, discusses living in the Łódź ghetto in Poland from 1939 to August 1944; working in a laundry in the ghetto; being taken with her family to Auschwitz concentration camp in 1944; being marched from Auschwitz to Stutthof; her liberation by the Russians near Gdansk, Poland; contracting typhus in an outbreak that hit a group of female survivors following liberation; returning to Łódź and reuniting with her sister; reuniting with her brother at the displaced persons camp in Ainring, Germany; immigrating in 1949 to Portland, Maine, where her husband worked in a clothing factory; opening a tailor’s shop in 1954; raising a family; volunteering at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum; and speaking at schools in Silver Spring, Maryland.

    Oral history interview with Irene Silver

    Oral History

    Irene Silver, born Irena Dynkewicz in Łódź, Poland on January 30, 1933, discusses raising her children in the Jewish tradition, being comfortable with friends who understand the Holocaust experience; her anger with people who ask why victims did not fight back during the Holocaust; being tolerant of strangers after having lived with strangers in the Warsaw Ghetto; her work as a social worker and how it was influenced by her wartime experiences; her sympathy with the civil rights movement; her membership in the Hidden Children group in New York where she feels a common ground; receiving Holocaust reparations which she used to help her children; her view that the world has not learned any lessons from the Holocaust; and her emotion at the opening of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, feeling that the rain at the opening ceremony was the heavens crying.

    Oral history interview with Herman Taube

    Oral History

    Herman Taube (né Herschel Taube), born February 2, 1918 in Łódź, Poland, discusses his family; being orphaned by age nine; living with grandparents and later moving to Piyotrkov; attending a yeshiva; being encouraged by a Polish doctor to become a medic; returning to his grandparents in Łódź in 1935 and seeing antisemitic incidents; writing poetry; belonging to a literary society and meeting the Jewish philosopher Martin Buber; working in a military hospital in Alexandrov (possibly Aleksandrów Łódźki, Poland), arranged by Father Jagla, a Catholic priest; joining the Polish Army in August 1939; serving in a medical group that marched to the Bug River where the Soviet Army ordered the group to go to Volodymyr-Volyns'kyĭ, Ukraine to get educated so as to lose their capitalist mentality; accompanying a wounded soldier to Poltawa (Poltava), Ukraine, where an Ukrainian militia man arranged for him to take a new name, Grigori Arionowicz Taube, and live with a Jewish family; going to Samarra (Koibashov or possibly Kuybyshev) and getting more medical training; being sent to Tyumen (Tiumen') in Siberia and working in hospitals and in gulags; in November 1941 going to Tashkent, Uzbekistan and then to Andizhan, Uzbekistan; working in a malaria clinic; leaving the clinic after reporting that people were stealing food from the hospital; going to Seratov, Russia to the Polish Army; being assigned to the Kotsk offensive in June 1944; being badly injured by a mine explosion while riding in a truck; recovering enough by December 1944 and going to Lublin, Poland to the Polish Army headquarters in Majdanek; being assigned to Platte and opening a Red Cross repatriation station where he treated people with typhus; going to Keslin in Bessarabia in June 1945 to acquire more medicine from a CIBA warehouse; meeting a young woman, Susan Strauss, a survivor from Germany and traveling together to Potsdam, Germany; staying in a displaced persons camp in Halle-Merseburg, Germany, where he opened a Red Cross station; meeting a young Auschwitz survivor, Henry Rothfogel; traveling with Susan back to Platte, and getting civilly married and later religiously married; traveling with Susan and Henry in the summer of 1946 to Berlin, Germany with help from the Bricha; adopting a two year old child survivor, Mark; having first child in the Zingenheim displaced persons camp in September 1946; arriving in the United Sates on April 18, 1947 and being interviewed at the pier by the Jewish Daily Forward; going to Baltimore, MD to join Susan's father; writing for the Jewish Daily Forward; traveling to New York, NY to edit a Histadrut yearbook; returning to Baltimore and helping Susan run a grocery store; working for various Jewish organizations; obtaining accreditation as a journalist at the White House and in Congress; and continuing to write poetry, stories, and essays about the Holocaust.

    Oral history interview with Regine Ginsberg

    Oral History

    Regine Ginsberg, born on November 19, 1925, discusses her childhood in Brussels, Belgium; her father’s work in the leather industry; religious observances in the household; speaking Yiddish at home and French in school; how her father wired money to Chase Bank in New York in the 1930s; her family abandoning their home in Brussels to travel by train to France; staying with a farmer in St. Gaudens, France; the family’s arrest in St. Gaudens; how her brother and father were sent to a prison near Toulouse, France and then released seven weeks later; how her mother returned to Brussels and brought back Sabbath candlesticks, prayer shawls, tefillin, and diamond jewelry which she used to bribe guards; how her father contacted a cousin in Pennsylvania; being on the last boat out of France from Marseilles; arriving in New York in June 1942; staying with cousins in Pittsburgh, PA and then settling in McKeesport, PA; her mother and father’s work in the leather industry; moving to Texas where she met her future husband Reuben Ginsberg in Athens, TX; her brother enlisting in the army and being sent to Belgium where he did intelligence work acting as a French interpreter; studying along with her husband at Columbia University in New York; becoming an art dealer and opening up a gallery in the 1970s; her emotional state after the war; and how her wartime experiences affected her life, her marriage, and the way she raised her children.

    Oral history interview with Ruth Rappaport

    Oral History

    Ruth Rappaport, born May 27, 1923 in Leipzig, Germany, discusses her parents, Mendel Rappaport, a Romanian subject, and Helene Rubinstein, who was born in Poland; how her mother’s cousin, also named Helene Rubinstein, was a well-known cosmetics businesswoman, attending an Orthodox Jewish school and an English language school in Leipzig, Germany; her membership in the Zionist youth group, Habonim; her Romanian passport, which did not identify her as a Jew; moving to Switzerland with her family shortly after Kristallnacht; staying in Zurich, Switzerland as a nanny for the Herzog family after her parents returned to Germany; selling nail polish, which her parents sent because they could not send money; being sponsored by her uncle, Carl Rubinstein, who lived in Seattle, Washington to come to the United States; leaving Europe in December 1939 on the Holland American Line boat, the Veendam; her parents’ attempt to leave Germany with Cuban visas; how her father died in Buchenwald and her mother in Ravensbrück, both in 1943; attending high school in Seattle, then the University of Washington, and finishing at Berkeley, majoring in sociology; working after graduation for a Jewish newspaper in Seattle and for the Zionist Emergency Council; working with Bartley Crum for UNSCOP (United Nations Special Committee on Palestine) in San Francisco, CA; working in Israel during the War of Independence in 1948, where she exchanged gunfire with Palestinians; working with Golda Meir; helping establish the Israel Photographic Archives; returning to the United States and working for the Department of Defense as a librarian; living overseas in Okinawa, Japan; Taipei, Taiwan; and Vietnam; and retiring from the government after 19 years.

    Oral history interview with Edith Langer

    Oral History

    Edith Langer, born October 4, 1932 in Hamm, Germany, discusses living on a farm; her devout Lutheran mother; memories of the prewar Jewish community in her town; her early approval of Hitler because his support of public works; meeting Hitler as a member of her scout troop; attending a one-room school with 30 children, 10 of whom were Jewish; her father’s offer to hide the families of two of his Jewish customers in her family’s farm house; her mother’s feeling that hiding Jews was the right thing to do as a Christian; her father's murder by the Nazis for hiding Jews; being sent away from her family to work on a farm, where she stayed from 1941 to 1945 and had no contact with her family; being afraid of German soldiers; seeing murdered Jews in the streets; giving food to the Russian prisoners, who were living on the farm; emigrating from Germany to the United States in 1956; becoming an American citizen in 1961; her hope that more Nazis would be tried, including the one who shot her father; her membership in the Methodist Church; and taking part in protests against the American Nazi Party.

    Oral history interview with Marianne Milkman

    Oral History

    Marianne Friedenthal Milkman, born May 13, 1931 in Berlin, Germany, discusses her childhood in Germany; being baptized and raised as Christian to have more opportunities; changing schools and apartments in 1938 because of anti-Jewish laws; her aunt Lotte Friedenthal, who worked with Pastor Martin Niemӧller; her father’s deportation to Sachsenhausen in 1938; traveling to Switzerland in January 1939 and then flying with her sister to England on a Kindertransport in May 1939; living with relatives in Cambridge, England; the arrival of her parents in England and her father’s internment on the Isle of Man as an enemy alien; joining her father on the Isle of Man in May 1940; returning to Cambridge in May 1941, where she remained throughout the war; graduating from high school and Cambridge University; coming to the United States in 1957 to study biology; getting married and living in Iowa for 30 years; settling in Washington, DC; her Jewish identity; and her feeling that her experience during the war made her a stronger person.

    Oral history interview with Ruth Cohen

    Oral History

    Ruth Friedman Cohen, born April 26, 1930 in Mukachevo, Czechoslovakia (present day Mukacheve, Ukraine), describes her life after the Holocaust; her prewar life in Czechoslovakia; her family’s religious beliefs; her family’s deportation to Auschwitz in 1944; her mother and brother’s death immediately after their arrival at Auschwitz; her transfer to Nuremberg, Germany and then Holachov; the painful effects of tuberculosis that she contracted in Holachov; her survival and liberation by the Russian Army; her and her sister’s return to Mukachevo, where they reunited with their father; her time in Budapest, Hungary and Prague, Czech Republic, where she recuperated from tuberculosis; her immigration to the United States in 1948; the various jobs she had to support herself; her marriage in 1952; her education at the New School for Social Research; and her struggle to recover from the damaging emotional and mental effects of the Holocaust.

    Oral history interview with Phillip Abraham

    Oral History

    Phillip Abraham, born August 10, 1931 in Podului-Turkului (Podu Turcului), Romania, describes his prewar life in Romania; his family’s religious beliefs; his childhood in a close-knit Jewish community; his family’s move to Tecuci, Romania in 1940; his father being taken away and then released in 1942; the lack of food available to the population; his education in a Jewish school; his town’s liberation by the Russian Army; his post-war Romanian education; his membership in Hashomer Hatzair, a Zionist youth organization; his time in Israel; his education at Hebrew University and Weizmann Institute, where he studied physics; his immigration to the United States in 1959; his careers at Raytheon and the Office of Naval Research; his marriage in 1964; and his two children.

    Oral history interview with George Arnstein

    Oral History

    George Ernest Arnstein, born September 20, 1924 in Stuttgart, Germany, describes his prewar life in Germany; the repercussions of the Nuremberg laws; his experiences with antisemitism; his father’s arrest on Kristallnacht; his father’s time in Dachau; his family’s decision to leave Germany and go to Geneva, Switzerland; his family’s immigration to the United States in 1938; the anti-German sentiment in America during World War II and its effects on him; his service for the United States Army beginning in 1943 and his duties as a crypto-analyst; his work in Germany helping to perform interrogations, monitoring anti-American efforts, and denazification; his return to Wisconsin after the war; his education at Berkeley and Geneva; and his life post-war.

    Oral history interview with Gertrude Scarlett Epstein

    Oral History

    Gertrude Scarlett Epstein, born July 13, 1922 in Vienna, Austria, describes her early life growing up in Vienna; her Czech father’s belief in free thinking; how her family was not religious; her parents’ and older brothers’ experiences during World War I; her Uncle Willie, who became wealthy as a textile factory owner; how she began to notice antisemitism in Vienna when her family moved to a non-Jewish part of town in the 1930s; her father’s and oldest brother’s activities in the socialist movement; her memories of a strike in Vienna in 1934; her memories of the Anschluss; her brothers’ immigration to England; her experience securing visas for Czechoslovakia on the day Hitler entered Vienna; her feelings that her moral code shifted as it became necessary to lie; her father’s arrest and later release from jail in Czechoslovakia; the family’s move to Albania by train; help provided to the family by her Uncle Willie; how she smuggled money out of Austria and Czechoslovakia; her family’s life in Albania from November 1938 to April 1939; the reaction of native Albanians towards Austrian refugees; how the Joint Distribution Committee helped refugees in Albania; her experiences teaching German to Albanians and the Italian consulate; problems she and her mother had in securing passage from Albania to England; brutal treatment she and her mother received from German police at a fuel stop in Germany; her memories of learning about concentration camps in 1943 or 1944; and how she tracked down an Albanian family to whom she taught German.

    Oral history interview with Matilde Neuwirt

    Oral History

    Matilde Neuwirt, born December 26, 1930 in Belgrade, Serbia, describes her early life in Belgrade; how her parents spoke Serbo-Croatian and Ladino at home; her family’s upper-middle class lifestyle; her schooling at both a public and a Jewish school; the lack of apprehension she felt in the pre-war years; her mother’s decision that the family leave Yugoslavia in the summer of 1940; her family’s escape westward through Dubrovnik, Croatia and then to Italy; how her parents smuggled money out of Yugoslavia; her family’s arrival in Italy without visas; living in Vicenza, Italy; how her family was moved to a detention camp in Sandrigo by the Italian authorities; the unofficial schooling that families set up for the children in Sandrigo; how the Italian authorities encouraged families to leave Sandrigo when Italy capitulated to the Germans; the help Jewish families received from a government official to get false documents; her family’s experience traveling to Rome, Italy; her memories of German brutality on the streets; how she did not know what was happening to Jews elsewhere in the country nor the rest of Europe; her brother’s return to Yugoslavia to fight with Tito’s partisans; the anti-Jewish sentiment of the partisans; her brother’s disappearance and the lack of information about him from the Yugoslav government; her family’s decision to emigrate from Italy to the United States in 1949; her family’s arrival in New York, NY; her feelings about Americanization and leaving memories of Europe behind; her memories of the Eichmann trial; her experiences returning to Yugoslavia and Italy after the war; and her belief that her family was lucky in the way they lived through the war.

    Oral history interview with Susanne K. Bennet

    Oral History

    Susanne Klejman Bennet, born August 11, 1938 in Warsaw, Poland, discusses her memories of entering the Warsaw ghetto; seeing the brick walls being built in the ghetto; living with her grandparents, aunts, and uncles all together in one apartment; beggars asking for food in her building; how her father, a successful art and antiquities dealer, arranged with a non-Jewish friend to have a Polish policeman take her out of the ghetto to a farm in the countryside; how, just before the destruction of the ghetto, her mother escaped from her work group and hid with nuns who gave her a habit and a new name; how the nuns were later rounded up, but were saved on the train platform by a Catholic commandant; how her father escaped from the ghetto through the sewers right before the uprising and went into hiding throughout Warsaw; how as a young child, she knew not to talk about her parents; seeing the red sky in the distance when Warsaw was burning in 1944; her reunion with her parents; the death of most of her relatives during the Holocaust; moving with her parents to Stockholm, Sweden in 1947; receiving visas in 1949 from the Swedish ambassador to Mexico where she and her family stayed for nine months; immigrating to the United States in 1950; living in New York where her father opened up a store off of Fifth Avenue and became a major art dealer with John and Robert Kennedy, the Rockefellers, the Fords, and Greta Garbo as his clients; attending Wellesley College, where she received a masters in library science; meeting her husband Douglas Bennet, who later worked for Hubert Humphrey, Senator Abe Ribicoff, and was an Assistant Secretary of State, head of US AID and NPR, and president of Wesleyan College; their eldest son, Michael, a United States senator from Colorado; their second son, James, the editor-in-chief of The Atlantic Monthly; their daughter, Holly, a financial adviser; her feelings when visiting Germany with her husband; how her father never spoke about his wartime experience; and how she has only recently started talking about her childhood during the Holocaust.

    Oral history interview with Marianne Roberts

    Oral History

    Marianne Roberts (née Marianne Cohn), born June 20, 1920 in Ludwigshafen, Germany, discusses her childhood in Ludwigshafen; experiencing antisemitism; her father's death from tuberculosis in 1933; her expulsion from school with her sister, Lottie, because they were Jewish; her mother's death in 1936; being photographed at the City Hall to show her "Jewish left ear" and being given the name ‘Sarah’; living with her sister until Kristallnacht; hiding in a basement for three days with no food while their apartment was being destroyed; moving into her sister's fiancé’s family's house for a few months and never going outside; going to the American Consulate to get visas their mother had applied for three years previously; leaving Germany in early 1939 with 4 dollars, pots and pans, and a family ring; sailing on the Cunard White Star to New York, NY; working in a doctor's office in Brooklyn; getting married and having two children; and speaking for past 20 years in schools and colleges about her wartime experiences.

    Oral history interview with Harry Markowicz

    Oral History

    Harry Markowicz, born August 9, 1937 in Berlin, Germany, discusses his childhood in Antwerp, Belgium; being hidden during the war with the Coons family in Brussels, Belgium, then in a children's home, and then in the Von der Linden's house under the name Henry Von der Linden; his parents who lived in hiding with another couple; how his father did not go outside for two years while in hiding; his brother, Mani, who was saved by Father Joseph Andre; how his mother found him after liberation; the removal of Allied flags at the time of the Battle of the Bulge because of fear that German forces would make their way to Brussels; arriving in the United States with his parents in March 1951; settling in Seattle, WA and going to high school and the University of Washington; traveling to Paris, France for a year for training as a French teacher; traveling to Israel to learn Hebrew; teaching French in Tacoma, WA; learning sign language and working at Gallaudet University for 29 years; feeling more comfortable among Holocaust survivors; and volunteering at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, where he feels a bond with the other volunteers.

    Oral history interview with Julie A. Keefer

    Oral History

    Julie Keefer (née Jula Weinstock Eisen), born on April 19, 1941 in Lvov, Poland (present day L'viv, Ukraine), discusses her family’s forced relocation into the Lvov ghetto; the escape of her grandfather, Aiski Eisen, from a camp in Janov; her grandfather finding help from Mr. Borecki, who told him in late 1943 that the ghetto was to be burned, and her grandfather’s rescue of her family from the ghetto; her memories of a tunnel or bunker in the forest, to which a few dozen people were smuggled out of the ghetto; her memories of her grandfather donning a Nazi uniform to smuggle people out of the ghetto; being taken out of the bunker because she and her baby sister, Tola, were endangering others by crying; being placed with Mrs. Szwarczynski, a Catholic woman; the arrival of the Russians in Lvov in June 1944; staying in three displaced persons camps in 1945; living in Camp Taylor in Linz, Austria; traveling alone at seven years old to the United States, where she lived in a series of Catholic orphanages, seeing relatives on weekends; being called a Nazi because she spoke German; being sent by the Joint Distribution Committee to the Bellefaire Jewish Children's Orphanage in Cleveland, OH; her adoption by Fred and Tea Klejstadt; attending Oberlin College; getting married and earning a graduate degree in education; feeling grateful to United States; and her desire to find out what happened to her hidden sister whose name became Antonina Noviska.

    Oral history interview with Erica Laufer

    Oral History

    Erica Laufer, born May 11, 1930 in Klagenfurt, Austria, discusses being the only Jewish child in her school, where she was taught by nuns; her mother denying her Jewish identity but her father being observant; an appearance by Hitler after the Anschluss; being forced to wear the yellow Star of David; being barred from attending school; moving into her grandfather's apartment in Vienna, Austria and living there in secret; SA attacks on Jewish homes; witnessing the events of Kristallnacht while hiding in a doorway; how her father obtained tickets to Trinidad; sailing on the Dutch ship Cotica with other refugees; establishing a life in Port of Spain, Trinidad; being forced, as refuges, to live in a detention center after England entered the war; going to a boarding school to be the companion to the daughter of the director; sailing to New York, NY with her parents in December 1940; moving to Washington, DC where she was discriminated against by other children because of her accent; her academic success; her work for the federal government; getting married and starting a family; not raising her children as Jews following an oath to her mother; the number of relatives she lost in Europe; and her attempts to suppress her feelings about the Holocaust.

    Oral history interview with Barbara Goldberg

    Oral History

    Barbara Goldberg, born in 1943 in Wilmington, DE, discusses her parents, Emma and Erich, who received visas from the Portuguese diplomat Aristides de Sousa Mendes to emigrate from France to Portugal; their journey over the Pyrenees to Spain and then to Portugal; their arrival in the United States; her uncle Paul Brennan (born Pavel Briess) who had been in Theresienstadt and Auschwitz; how other relatives made it to Palestine, Australia, and South Africa; speaking only German in the house; how her parents’ personalities were shaped by the war; never discussing the past or other relatives' stories; feeling a connection to refugees; living with the memory of the Holocaust; and her discovery later in life that Aristides de Sousa Mendes had helped her family.

    Oral history interview with Liselotte Epstein Ivry

    Oral History

    Liselotte Epstein Ivry, born July 21, 1925 in Lichtenstein, Czechoslovakia (possibly present day Lichtenstein, Saxony, Germany), describes her family, including her father Victor Ivry, mother Elsa Sicher, and younger brother Hans; the large families on both her father’s and mother’s sides; having heard of Hitler at age 12; being taken by truck with soldiers to live with relatives in a nearby village and then by train to live in Prague, Czech Republic; the many changes after the Germans marched in on March 15, 1939; having been set to go to Great Britain in 1939 on the Kindertransport but instead being sent first to a children’s facility in Prague and then to a private home; being sent to Terezin September 9, 1942 to work as a nurse in the hospital; the transport and death of her mother and brother on March 8, 1944; being sent on December 15, 1943 in a cattle car to Auschwitz, to Block 11; being given number 70663; how the will to live was what kept you alive; being sent to Hamburg, Germany to work first in a sand pit, then as a train switcher, and finally as a brick-maker; how their camp was bombed and they were moved to Bergen-Belsen; the ensuing chaos and then the emotion and celebration after being liberated by the British; eventually going to Canada in 1949 to stay with her uncle; marrying in 1950 to a Lithuanian, Sydney; her children; her attitude about Germany now and forgiving but not forgetting; her book, I Am Their Voice, which is a collection of poems, letters, and anecdotes by children from her 25 years as a speaker; and how now she is doing research for a work about Madeleine Albright.

    Oral history interview with Hans Ziegler

    Oral History

    Hans Ziegler, born June 12, 1925 in Brno, Czechoslovakia, discusses being raised as a Christian with a Jewish father; his parents divorcing in 1934; his father’s factory going out of business in 1937; attending a German elementary school; his father’s deportation to Terezin (Theresienstadt concentration camp) in 1942; being transported to Berlin, Germany in 1943 for forced labor; being sent in September 1944 to Postelberg (Postoloprty), Czech Republic; escaping in April 1945 with two others to the woods; hiding in Brno until the Russians arrived; getting repatriated and going to university for three years; being expelled by the Soviets in 1949 because his father was a capitalist and a diplomat; being in the military for two years; being employed as a chemist in an armaments factory; working in Egypt and Afghanistan; escaping to Germany in 1970 and staying until 1983; going to the United States and working in Warren, Ohio until 1990; going back to Germany; feeling more Jewish than Christian; and how he thinks more about his father and his war-time experiences.

    Oral history interview with Vera Levine

    Oral History

    Oral history interview with Guenter Lewy

    Oral History

    Guenter Lewy, born August 22, 1923 in Breslau, Germany (Wrocław, Poland), discusses his childhood in a large extended assimilated family; his memory of seeing Hitler at the 1936 Olympics; belonging to a Jewish Zionist youth group; being attacked on a hiking trip by German storm troopers; his father’s three month imprisonment in Buchenwald after Kristallnacht; going with Youth Aliyah via Trieste to Palestine in March 1939; being met in Haifa by his uncle; living on Kibbutz Tzarad where he worked as a shepherd; his parents’ escape to the United States in late 1941; volunteering in early 1942 for the Palestine Regiment of the British Army; joining the Jewish Brigade and being stationed in Egypt; traveling to Italy with Montgomery's 8th Army in late 1944; traveling to Holland at the war’s end; his role in organizing illegal immigration to Palestine; interrogating German civilians in Berlin; returning to Palestine; traveling to the United States to see his parents in late 1946; graduating from college in 1951 and earning a Master's and Ph.D. from Columbia University in 1957; teaching at Columbia, Smith College, and University of Massachusetts; teaching in Germany from 1961 to 1962; his feelings about German people today; the strong influence of his youth group on his resilience; his writings on the moral dimensions of history and the Nazi persecution of the Romani peoples; his current interest in writing about Holocaust perpetrators; reoccurring dreams about Nazis brutality; and feeling that some of the best Holocaust scholarship has being written by contemporary young German scholars.

    Oral history interview with Malvy Solomon

    Oral History

    Malvy Solomon (née Aizic), born in 1938 in Bacau, Romania, discusses pre-war violence against Jews; her father’s conscription into forced labor for the Romanian military in 1941; living with her mother and grandmother in the ghetto with little food; her father’s return in 1944; attending a Jewish primary school and learning Hebrew; surviving bombings; the Soviet arrival in Romania at war’s end; Soviet looting after the war; her school’s closure by Soviet authorities; post-war antisemitism and anti-Capitalist feelings; her father’s job working for the communist government after he was forced to close his store; finishing high school at 16; her medical schooling and career; her marriage; immigrating to Israel in 1961; attending medical school in Tel Aviv; getting divorced, treating soldiers and bombing victims; remarrying in 1971; immigrating to the United States; her education in the U.S.; working for the Department of Veterans Affairs; and her feelings about the war, communism, and her life.

    Oral history interview with Elia Miranski and Genia Miranski

    Oral History

    Elia Miranski, born on August 3, 1922 in Mir, Poland (present day Belarus), describes growing up in a poor, moderately religious family but experiencing no antisemitism until the German invasion in 1939; his parents’ deaths in the first few days of the occupation; escaping with his brother, Israel, from the ghetto which had been set up in a castle; joining Russian partisans in the forest; blowing up railroad tracks for two years; trains near Valozhyn, Belarus; planes dropping supplies; others taking the wounded away from the front lines; Russians mobilizing all partisans into the army; being wounded by the Germans; traveling back to Mir after the war; working on a dairy farm for seven years as a supervisor; moving to Minsk, Belarus and working as a house painter; getting married and having a daughter; going to Israel in 1972 and then to the United States in 1995; thinking day and night about his wartime experiences; and going back to Mir from Israel for a memorial ceremony in the cemetery. Genia Miranski, daughter of Elia Miranski, adds to her father’s interview by translating it into English and by describing Elia’s membership in the Zionist youth group Hashomer Hatzair; Elia’s parents and two younger siblings being shot by Germans; Elia building bridges and roads; witnessing his friend being mauled to death by a dog; living in the castle ghetto; Elia’s experience escaping and hiding in a swamp for three days and at times breathing through a straw when German dogs were nearby; joining Russian partisans; his return to Minsk at the end of the war and experiencing a significant amount of antisemitism; the Six Day War in Israel; going to an underground bakery at night to get Passover matzo; arriving in Israel in 1972; living in underground bunkers in 1973 during the Yom Kippur War; and her own arrival in the U.S. in 1985 and her parents’ arrival in 1995.

    Oral history interview with Maria Kordalewski

    Oral History

    Maria Kordalewski, born April 13, 1924 in Poland, describes her Ukrainian parents and her two siblings, Nicolai and Nadja; going to school and her Jewish friends; the Russians coming in 1939 and the subsequent food shortages; how people were being sent away to Siberia; the absence of antisemitism in their small town until the German occupation in 1941; how her family hid two boys until the boys escaped; how her brother was arrested in 1942, along with other young men, as a means of preventing an uprising; the Russians coming in 1945 when the war was over; being sent with her sister to Lvov (L'viv, Ukraine) to get away from the communists; being sent to a displaced persons camp in Regensburg, Germany and going to school to study pharmaceuticals; arriving in the United States in 1950 by herself; landing in New York City, NY; the various jobs she held at first; moving to Detroit, MI then to California, and finally to Miami, FL; and her feelings that the Holocaust should never be forgotten.

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